IRC log of tr on 2012-10-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:50 [RRSAgent]
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14:56:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-irc
14:56:55 [Zakim]
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14:57:10 [Lachy]
ScribeNick: Lachy
14:57:18 [Lachy]
RRSAgent: make logs public
14:57:24 [Lachy]
RRSAgent: make minutes
14:57:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Lachy
14:58:27 [ted]
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14:58:38 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/
14:58:55 [yoshiaki]
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14:59:16 [Lachy]
Topic: Future of W3C publishing process (
14:59:18 [Lachy]
Topic: Future of W3C publishing process
14:59:48 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(1)
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15:00:34 [betehess]
scribenick: betehess
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15:00:48 [betehess]
RRSAgent, please generate minutes
15:00:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html betehess
15:00:53 [betehess]
agenda?
15:00:56 [betehess]
q?
15:00:59 [SimonPieters]
present+ Simon_Pieters
15:01:22 [hiroki_]
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15:01:28 [betehess]
present+ Alexandre Bertails
15:01:38 [jgraham]
present +jgraham
15:02:50 [Lachy]
present+ Lachy
15:03:13 [hiroki_]
present+ Hiroki Yamada
15:03:19 [Travis]
Present+ Travis_Leithead
15:03:19 [betehess]
chair: plh
15:03:20 [ted]
present+ Ted Guild
15:03:24 [annevk]
present+ divya and anne
15:03:34 [stefanh]
present+ Stefan_Hakansson
15:03:49 [betehess]
RRSAgent, please generate minutes
15:03:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html betehess
15:04:16 [cygri_]
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15:05:10 [betehess]
plh: this is about the future of #TR
15:05:15 [betehess]
... not about the process itself
15:05:20 [betehess]
... only about /TR pages
15:05:26 [betehess]
... and how to publish stuff there
15:05:29 [yoshiaki]
present+ Yoshiaki Fukami
15:05:37 [betehess]
... not about new style either
15:05:47 [edoyle]
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15:06:26 [betehess]
Lachy: so this exlucdes stuff re: WD< LC, etc.
15:06:33 [betehess]
s/WD</WD,/
15:06:50 [betehess]
steeve: actually, I'll be happy to talk about that after the session
15:07:05 [cygri]
Richard Cyganiak, DERI
15:07:06 [betehess]
Alexandre Bertails, W3C Systems Team
15:07:07 [dom]
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15:07:17 [betehess]
plh: my goal is to get feedback
15:07:21 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:07:22 [betehess]
... identify what we need to do
15:07:23 [Ghislain]
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15:07:25 [SteveZ]
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15:07:33 [betehess]
... go away if you don't what /TR is
15:07:36 [dbaron]
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15:07:39 [betehess]
s/don't/don't know/
15:07:43 [Josh_Soref]
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15:07:43 [SteveZ]
SteveZ is Steve Zilles
15:07:44 [sandro]
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15:07:53 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:07:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:07:59 [sandro]
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ht has joined #tr
15:08:01 [sandro]
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15:08:05 [sandro]
sandro has left #tr
15:08:08 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Josh_Soref
15:08:08 [cabanier]
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15:08:11 [ht]
present+ Henry S. Thompson
15:08:25 [Josh_Soref]
s/y S. T/y_S_T/
15:08:26 [RobinLaFontaine]
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15:08:27 [dbaron]
Present+ David Baron
15:08:31 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Steve_Zilles
15:08:34 [Josh_Soref]
s/d B/d_B/
15:08:37 [betehess]
... http://www.w3.org/TR/ is the canonical URL
15:09:09 [betehess]
... this has evolved over time
15:09:22 [Josh_Soref]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(1)
15:09:26 [betehess]
... list technologies, status, date, title, etc.
15:09:31 [Josh_Soref]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(2)
15:09:34 [Josh_Soref]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(3)
15:09:37 [betehess]
... provides several views to access specs
15:09:37 [Josh_Soref]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(4)
15:09:58 [betehess]
... Submissions are not there, like other docs
15:10:01 [sandro]
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15:10:04 [annevk]
Feedback: in the Netherlands the last name "Van Kesteren" is sorted using K, not V
15:10:15 [betehess]
... the W3C publication process is a bit complex
15:10:17 [annevk]
(Probably easier to sort on first name.)
15:10:24 [betehess]
... reflects the w3c process
15:10:30 [sandro]
+SandroHawke
15:10:41 [betehess]
... sometimes you need to ask permission for transitions.
15:10:43 [Josh_Soref]
s/+/Present+ /
15:10:50 [betehess]
... then you ask the webmaster for actual publication
15:10:51 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:10:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:11:02 [betehess]
... he can say no at any point if doc is not ready
15:11:13 [betehess]
... the webmaster also deals with the comm-team
15:11:18 [betehess]
... to make sure they are ready
15:11:29 [betehess]
... then he interacts with very old back-end
15:11:54 [betehess]
... then it's finally published
15:12:05 [betehess]
... in the meantime, the comm-team does announcements
15:12:14 [betehess]
... eg. twitter, the AC, etc.
15:12:26 [betehess]
... may depend on the kind of document as well
15:12:35 [ArnaudLH]
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15:12:37 [betehess]
... as an editor, it's not easy
15:12:39 [Josh_Soref]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(5)
15:12:44 [Josh_Soref]
http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(6)
15:12:50 [betehess]
... I'll focus on informations in /TR
15:13:00 [betehess]
... "this version" is immutable
15:13:12 [betehess]
... a link to the doc itself
15:13:12 [betehess]
... "latest version"
15:13:19 [hsivonen]
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15:13:20 [betehess]
... "previous version"
15:13:31 [betehess]
... and now, new stuff, like "editor's draft"
15:13:36 [betehess]
... (not required)
15:13:38 [Josh_Soref]
-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(7) WHO USES /TR?
15:14:14 [wilhelm]
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15:14:18 [betehess]
... who uses /TR, the web page?
15:14:27 [betehess]
... do you go through this page to find stuff?
15:14:33 [betehess]
... or maybe a search engine?
15:14:37 [betehess]
... what about webdevs?
15:14:54 [betehess]
... and sometimes, you want to know about other resources
15:15:12 [betehess]
... my question: do you use it? how? why? if not, why?
15:15:30 [betehess]
Lachy: I use Google
15:15:32 [betehess]
... just easier
15:15:41 [betehess]
... I usually don't know what I'm looking for
15:15:45 [betehess]
q+ chaals
15:16:04 [betehess]
... there are too much informations on the webpage
15:16:05 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(1">http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(1)|-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(1) THE FUTURE OF /TR|
15:16:05 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(2">http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(2)|-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(2) WHAT'S FOR TODAY?|
15:16:05 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(3">http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(3)|-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(3) WHAT'S /TR?|
15:16:05 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(4">http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(4)|-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(4) WHAT'S /TR?|
15:16:06 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(5">http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(5)|-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(5) PUBLICATION PROCESS AS OF TODAY (SIMPLIFIED)|
15:16:06 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(6">http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(6)|-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(6) WHAT'S IN /TR?|
15:16:10 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:16:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:16:13 [sandro]
Lachy: Sometimes I know the shortname, sometimes it's in my browser history
15:16:18 [betehess]
@@: also dev.w3.org
15:16:25 [betehess]
.... because I want the latest editor's draft
15:16:31 [Josh_Soref]
s/Topic: Future of W3C publishing process (//
15:16:34 [tobie]
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15:16:41 [sandro]
hsivonen: I add site:dev.w3.org if I what the ED.
15:16:46 [betehess]
Lachy: depending on the spec, I may want the latest draft, or something in /TR
15:16:46 [tobie]
present+ Tobie_Langel
15:16:47 [Josh_Soref]
q+ to note that i'm looking to not find stale documents
15:17:08 [betehess]
Travis: some years ago, I was going to /TR
15:17:12 [betehess]
... to see waht was done
15:17:20 [betehess]
... as I didn't know the spec
15:17:22 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:17:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:17:24 [betehess]
... dont' do that anymore
15:17:29 [Josh_Soref]
s/dont'/don't/
15:17:34 [betehess]
... I want to have the latest version
15:17:43 [sandro]
Travis: I want the ED, so I dont use /TR
15:17:50 [betehess]
vivia: if I want to find information, I use google
15:18:06 [Josh_Soref]
s/RRSAgent: make logs public//
15:18:12 [betehess]
... but sometimes people point me to the editor's draft
15:18:12 [Josh_Soref]
s/RRSAgent: make minutes//
15:18:18 [betehess]
david: I used to use the /TR page as a summary
15:18:25 [betehess]
... but can't find things in there anymore
15:18:30 [sandro]
+1 dbaron I stopped using /TR when it became dynamic
15:18:32 [betehess]
... stop using it
15:18:34 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Richard_Cyganiak
15:18:35 [betehess]
... too dynamic
15:18:40 [betehess]
... so I'm using google now
15:18:47 [betehess]
pl: I don't use /TR either
15:18:56 [betehess]
dom: I use it sometimes
15:19:00 [Josh_Soref]
s/+ Alexandre Bertails/+ Alexandre_Bertails/
15:19:11 [betehess]
chaals: I use Yandex now :-)
15:19:15 [Josh_Soref]
s/Hiroki Yamada/Hiroki_Yamada/
15:19:26 [Josh_Soref]
s/Ted Guild/Ted_Guild/
15:19:30 [betehess]
... when I use it, it's when I want to give people a link to a handful of specs
15:19:33 [betehess]
... like an overview
15:19:37 [betehess]
... and for history stuff
15:19:39 [Josh_Soref]
s/divya and anne/divya, anne/
15:19:50 [betehess]
... I can see things by date order
15:19:57 [Josh_Soref]
s/Yoshiaki Fukami/Yoshiaki_Fukami/
15:20:01 [kotakagi]
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15:20:09 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:20:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:20:12 [betehess]
... and I point people there when they have questions
15:20:26 [sandro]
chaals: one use is to point people at the progress of a group, or a set of related specs
15:20:31 [betehess]
... eg. they want the REC version if there is one
15:20:38 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Peter_Linss
15:20:42 [betehess]
plh: what about HTML?
15:21:05 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Koichi_Takagi
15:21:05 [betehess]
chaals: depends on the issue
15:21:05 [SimonSapin]
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15:21:11 [sandro]
chaals: I used autocomplete for the URL for the HTML5 draft
15:21:15 [betehess]
... most of the time, it's dev
15:21:20 [betehess]
... sometimes /TR version
15:21:24 [SimonSapin]
(I use the single page HTML spec as a crash-test)
15:21:26 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Doug_Schepers
15:21:39 [betehess]
doug: some people told they always use editor'ED for tests
15:22:00 [betehess]
... also, we have more ED than REC from the beginning
15:22:19 [ht]
ht has joined #tr
15:22:24 [Josh_Soref]
i|I use Google|Topic: Who uses /TR|
15:22:25 [betehess]
cygri: I've used it twice in my life
15:22:35 [betehess]
... to find what other specs where using RDF
15:22:41 [annevk]
More feedback: lots of people don't know what "TR" means
15:22:53 [betehess]
... but still hard to figure out where the information is
15:23:10 [betehess]
... can't find the right categories
15:23:17 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Lea_Verou
15:23:27 [betehess]
... 2nd time, when I had to publish a FPWD, I had to find some extra information, like the group
15:23:34 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Robin_Berjon
15:23:37 [betehess]
robin: I use for one thing
15:23:49 [Josh_Soref]
s/robin:/darobin:/
15:24:08 [betehess]
... I'd really like a separate version of this page for ED
15:24:14 [betehess]
... machine readable, not RDF please
15:24:30 [betehess]
fantaisi: it's not useful at all
15:24:33 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Elika_Etemad(fantasai)
15:24:40 [betehess]
... not sure we need a separate page
15:24:47 [betehess]
... it should be only about ED
15:24:51 [Josh_Soref]
s/fantaisi/fantasai/
15:24:57 [betehess]
steeve: if I'm a user, do I want that?
15:25:05 [betehess]
... things may be inconsistent
15:25:24 [odinho_]
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15:25:29 [betehess]
... people in this room are talking to a particular audience
15:25:40 [betehess]
... the audience is probably not the people in this room
15:25:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html odinho_
15:26:02 [betehess]
doug: people should not read the specs
15:26:05 [annevk]
angry mob
15:26:06 [betehess]
fantaisi: would to clarify
15:26:10 [sandro]
s/people/developers/
15:26:18 [Josh_Soref]
s/fantaisi:/fantasai:/G
15:26:30 [betehess]
... speaking about the version the WG considers the people should look at is on /TR
15:26:50 [betehess]
... for other WG, this is different
15:26:51 [sandro]
+1 fantasia: the version on TR should always be the version the WG thinks people should be looking at
15:27:20 [Josh_Soref]
[ applause ]
15:27:27 [sandro]
s/asia/asai/
15:27:31 [betehess]
... we should be able to point people at where the WG thinks they should look at
15:27:31 [Josh_Soref]
-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(8) /TR GOALS
15:27:59 [betehess]
plh: /TR is only for snapshots *today*
15:28:09 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:28:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:28:17 [betehess]
... (approved by WG)
15:28:20 [Josh_Soref]
meeting: Future of W3C publishing process
15:28:36 [betehess]
... other possibility, the latest version could be the thing that could be modified at will
15:28:52 [betehess]
... but when I'm in LC, which one should I look at?
15:28:56 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Odin_Hørthe_Omdal
15:28:58 [betehess]
... things can be moving
15:29:04 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:29:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:29:21 [betehess]
sandro: we could point people at the snapshot, not the latest version
15:29:48 [betehess]
@@: if it's the LC, it cannot be a moving target
15:29:54 [betehess]
... people should not look at it
15:29:55 [Josh_Soref]
s/@@:/PeterL:/
15:30:09 [betehess]
marcos: what's LC for?
15:30:14 [betehess]
PeterL: the process
15:30:26 [betehess]
marcos: does not have to be the stable doc
15:30:32 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Marcos_Caceres
15:30:34 [betehess]
... only the lawyers need that
15:30:41 [betehess]
steeve: two uses for LC
15:30:42 [dbaron]
annevk: You don't want to get the same feedback multiple times when it's been fixed.
15:30:49 [betehess]
... 1. is for patent reviews
15:30:53 [betehess]
... to see what can apply
15:30:59 [betehess]
... requires stable doc
15:31:00 [sandro]
+1 annevk: If part of the comments are already addressed in the ED, you don't want people looking at the old text.
15:31:06 [betehess]
2. is for people to have something to review
15:31:10 [betehess]
... and make comments
15:31:12 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
15:31:21 [betehess]
... they are interested in the conclusion
15:31:26 [betehess]
... not the moving thing
15:31:26 [Marcos]
Marcos has joined #tr
15:31:38 [shepazu]
shepazu has joined #tr
15:31:38 [betehess]
... snapshots are intended for people not in this room
15:31:43 [annevk]
q+
15:31:47 [annevk]
hmm
15:31:51 [betehess]
ArnaudLH: wasting our time
15:31:56 [betehess]
... people should be given the choice
15:31:58 [annevk]
q-
15:32:07 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Ashok_Malhotra
15:32:09 [betehess]
... we should be telling people the right thing
15:32:14 [betehess]
... we just not choose for them
15:32:17 [betehess]
... should be easy
15:32:33 [sandro]
+1 ArnaudLH just provide all the information, and let people pick which version(s) they want to see
15:32:39 [betehess]
@@: don't think it's only for lawyers
15:32:48 [Josh_Soref]
s/@@/hsivonen/
15:32:52 [betehess]
... if you write a comment, just look in the spec if it's still accurate
15:32:58 [betehess]
... you acn remove your comment
15:33:07 [betehess]
... so snapshots are not useful
15:33:13 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Arnaud_Le_Hors
15:33:15 [Josh_Soref]
s/acn/can/
15:33:34 [betehess]
... if you give choice, there is a risk that they'll read the wrong one
15:33:42 [betehess]
marcos: we can look at the evidence
15:33:52 [betehess]
... it's never been outside of the community
15:33:55 [sandro]
hsivonen: If you give people a choice, then you run the risk that New Hires will read the wrong one
15:34:09 [betehess]
... I bet that comments are always coming from the community
15:35:13 [betehess]
@@: @ArnaudLH giving people the choice, URLs are passed around, and people may be pointed to the wrong spec
15:35:13 [Josh_Soref]
s/@@/dbaron/
15:35:28 [betehess]
... but I agree, we should be able to give the option
15:35:39 [betehess]
... but people link to the specs all the time
15:35:59 [betehess]
... @Henry, there is more value in snap than for lawyers
15:36:00 [sandro]
that sounds like a small matter of programming
15:36:10 [betehess]
... when reading/writting comments for specs
15:36:21 [betehess]
... as I want to point to a specific version of the spec
15:36:32 [betehess]
... wants to speak about a specific paragraph
15:37:02 [betehess]
robin: don't thiink that snap are onlny for lawyers
15:37:11 [betehess]
... I get feedback for implementors
15:37:36 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Anthony_Mirabella
15:37:37 [betehess]
... so snapshot are useful
15:37:47 [betehess]
... I like the idea we have to generate several versions
15:37:54 [annevk]
Snapshots don't have any better stability in terms of feature review...
15:38:02 [annevk]
You need annotations for features stability
15:38:05 [betehess]
... we could make it so we detect if we have a fresher version of the spec
15:38:09 [annevk]
s/features/feature/
15:38:49 [betehess]
Lachy: to david re: linking to specific version, revision number from VCS in the URL is enough
15:38:50 [Josh_Soref]
s/david/dbaron/
15:39:10 [Marcos]
+q
15:39:11 [betehess]
... as an implementor, we have different people working on different sections of the spec
15:39:25 [Josh_Soref]
s/as/@SteveZ ... as/
15:39:27 [betehess]
... does not matter if it's LC for them, it's not relevant
15:39:37 [betehess]
... in this case we ignore the fact it's LC
15:39:53 [betehess]
steeve: I accept the comment re: LC doe snot mean it's not finished
15:39:57 [Josh_Soref]
s/steeve/SteveZ/
15:40:06 [betehess]
... but in this case, could mean that you're not really in LC
15:40:29 [betehess]
... specs are primarly for implementors
15:40:40 [betehess]
... so the URL should be the most useful to them
15:40:54 [Josh_Soref]
s/onlny/only/
15:40:56 [betehess]
... could be reasonable to provide URLs to derivative
15:41:03 [Josh_Soref]
s/thiink/think/
15:41:20 [betehess]
... still, we should provide snapshots for people who want them
15:41:36 [timeless]
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15:41:44 [betehess]
doug: the specs are hard, not for newbies
15:42:14 [timeless]
scribe: timeless
15:42:24 [timeless]
Travis: thinking about fantasai's place
15:42:34 [timeless]
... having a place which is semi private
15:42:39 [sandro]
"development branch"
15:42:40 [timeless]
fantasai: a place where i can discuss on the ML
15:42:52 [timeless]
Travis: a place where she can have implementers try it out
15:42:59 [timeless]
... we've made ED ....
15:43:11 [timeless]
darobin: half baked, confused
15:43:22 [timeless]
Marcos: i'd like to rename LC to Lawyer-Call instead of Last-Call
15:43:27 [timeless]
... if we're always in a state of receiving comments
15:43:33 [timeless]
annevk: we can keep "LC"
15:43:41 [timeless]
darobin: some groups should randomly go to REC
15:43:47 [timeless]
jgraham: if you want a private scratch place
15:43:54 [timeless]
... it sounds like you should use branches in VCS
15:43:55 [timeless]
q?
15:44:17 [Marcos]
ack Marcos
15:44:31 [timeless]
sandro: i've always wanted to make publishing a WD a one-click
15:44:36 [timeless]
... so ED appears on TR as a WD
15:44:45 [timeless]
... maybe Editors or Chairs clicks that button
15:44:50 [timeless]
plh: nice transition to my next slide
15:45:03 [timeless]
fantasai: i'd probably like to push all typo fixes and similar fixes *immediately* to TR
15:45:12 [sandro]
with "minor changes" check box
15:45:13 [timeless]
peterl: you want the "minor changes" checkbox
15:45:20 [timeless]
fantasai: checked by default
15:45:26 [timeless]
... in the CSS WG
15:45:34 [timeless]
... the process of requesting a publication from resolution
15:45:43 [timeless]
... causes people who were procrastinating to look at this NOW
15:45:54 [timeless]
... so there are aspects of publishing a snapshot for every change
15:46:06 [timeless]
... i want /TR up to date enough that people don't feel the need to look at my scratch
15:46:08 [sandro]
maybe "editorial changes"
15:46:11 [timeless]
darobin: +1
15:46:17 [Josh_Soref]
-> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/1031-tr-plh/#(9) PUBLICATION PROCESS
15:46:29 [timeless]
plh: is the current process painful for you?
15:46:36 [timeless]
... is pubrules painful?
15:46:38 [timeless]
[ laughter ]
15:46:45 [timeless]
plh: referring to sandro
15:46:47 [timeless]
... how often
15:46:54 [timeless]
... i've heard w/in 5 minutes
15:47:00 [timeless]
ashok: i work w/ other SDOs
15:47:02 [timeless]
... I work w/ OSS
15:47:05 [timeless]
... UMTF
15:47:11 [SimonPieters]
q+
15:47:13 [timeless]
... with those guys, you author a document
15:47:15 [timeless]
... in Word, PDF
15:47:18 [timeless]
... and upload it
15:47:20 [timeless]
... with W3
15:47:31 [timeless]
... it takes me as long to publish as it takes to write it
15:47:33 [timeless]
[ laughter ]
15:47:41 [timeless]
ashok: i can't publish what i edit
15:47:46 [timeless]
... it has to go through what i process
15:47:50 [timeless]
... there's this CVS business
15:48:00 [timeless]
... why is this that difficult?
15:48:21 [timeless]
wilhelm: at the current stage
15:48:25 [timeless]
... webdriver is in
15:48:27 [timeless]
... i want a commit hook
15:48:31 [timeless]
... editor commits
15:48:34 [timeless]
... we never use /TR
15:48:37 [timeless]
... what's there is wrong
15:48:44 [timeless]
dbaron: i'd like to offer some data
15:48:58 [timeless]
plinss: 1000010000
15:49:01 [timeless]
[ laughter ]
15:49:10 [timeless]
dbaron: longest period of time from a WG Resolution to publish a doc on TR
15:49:21 [timeless]
... to actual publication is 86 days
15:49:26 [timeless]
... only the ones i've been involved in
15:49:35 [timeless]
... Apr 24, 2007, to July 19, 2007
15:49:42 [timeless]
... the longest in the past 6 months is 50 days
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15:49:48 [timeless]
... Aug 1, 2012 to Sept 20, 2012
15:49:53 [timeless]
... WG Res to Publication
15:50:00 [timeless]
... this is not abnormal
15:50:13 [dom]
[what were the causes of the delays, though?]
15:50:15 [timeless]
ArnaudLH: i think pubrules are not too painful
15:50:19 [timeless]
... i'd like to publish as often as i'd want
15:50:24 [timeless]
... i want to completely control publication
15:50:31 [timeless]
... not have to try to get team contact/webteam/sysadmin
15:50:34 [timeless]
... i want a button
15:50:40 [timeless]
... make it happen in a few minutes
15:50:43 [timeless]
q?
15:50:51 [timeless]
SimonPieters: my comment is the same as everyone else
15:50:59 [timeless]
... publication process should be completely automated
15:51:04 [timeless]
doug: so should the authoring process
15:51:07 [odinho_]
ack SimonPieters
15:51:08 [dom]
queue=
15:51:10 [timeless]
Lachy: re pubrules
15:51:18 [timeless]
... it requires a lot of edits to update the little things
15:51:20 [timeless]
... to go up a stage
15:51:30 [timeless]
... i have to change stylesheet, link to previous
15:51:34 [timeless]
... that takes a lot of time
15:51:39 [timeless]
... updating SoD
15:51:49 [timeless]
darobin: are you using Anolys?
15:51:51 [timeless]
... that's not a tool
15:51:56 [timeless]
Lachy: manual edits is annoying
15:52:03 [timeless]
... should be able to say Spec @ Level - Go
15:52:11 [jgraham]
s/Anolys/Anolis/
15:52:11 [hsivonen]
s/Anolys/Anolis/
15:52:15 [timeless]
plh: not many of us use /TR
15:52:22 [timeless]
... since it became dynamic
15:52:31 [timeless]
... want to find latest version agreed by WG
15:52:50 [timeless]
... some mixed opinions, but WG agreed latest ver is the one to show
15:53:05 [timeless]
... dbaron mentioned link which is flexible to recipient
15:53:06 [dom]
[ReSpec is one possible part of the solution to the problem "we want to automate publication"; that doesn't invalidate the expression of the need]
15:53:19 [timeless]
... one click button
15:53:24 [timeless]
fantasai: commit hook
15:53:32 [timeless]
plh: i'll stop
15:53:45 [timeless]
SteveZ: announcements only w/ identified major revisions
15:53:58 [dbaron]
... not with publications
15:54:07 [Lachy]
RRSAgent: make minutes
15:54:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Lachy
15:54:29 [timeless]
Josh_Soref: and if there's some final minor update to a major version (HTML4.01) it should have a publication announcement
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15:55:39 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
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15:57:26 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Erika_Navara
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present+ Rik_Cabanier
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RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:57:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:58:35 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Simon_Sapin
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s/PeterL:/plinss/g
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s/peterl:/plinss/g
16:11:36 [timeless]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:11:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html timeless
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s|s/Anolys/Anolis/||
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16:12:05 [timeless]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:12:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html timeless
16:12:30 [timeless]
s/RRSAgent: make minutes//
16:12:31 [timeless]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:12:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-tr-minutes.html timeless
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