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12:40:18 <sandro> scribe: eric
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12:40:33 <ericP> Armin: w3c office OZ
12:40:50 <ericP> ... interested in SemWeb, part of linked data platform WG
12:41:03 <ericP> ... started OZ egov data WG last week
12:41:25 <ericP> gabriel: ethos in FR. datalift project
12:41:51 <ericP> jaques: fujitsu. closest to linked data is as a heavy XML (XSLT) practitioner
12:42:04 <ericP> RalphS: hear for use cases
12:42:12 <SteveS> Hi, I'm Steve Speicher with IBM, working on Linked Data Platform WG…interested in use cases and how LDP can apply
12:42:20 <ericP> ching...: LD taiwan
12:42:31 <ericP> bert bos: W3C staff
12:42:59 <ericP> eric V: evaluation task force. interested in anything with accessibility
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12:43:11 <ericP> felix sasaki: DFKI in DE
12:43:23 <FabGandon> Fabien Gandon, in charge of Wimmics Lab at Inria, http://wimmics.inria.fr interested in reconciling social semantics and formal semantics in web applications, linked data, semantic web, ontologies, working in the datalift project, http://datalift.org/
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12:43:51 <FabGandon> Present+FabGandon
12:44:07 <ericP> Bernadette: would like to see the W3C be more active in LD
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12:44:42 <ericP> ... eGov is very broad. two co-chairs: Tomaz, Jean Holme
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12:45:11 <sandro> s/Jean Holme/Jeanne Holm/
12:45:13 <JeniT> Jeni Tennison, Technical Director at Open Data Institute, interested in publication and consumption of open data, which may be linked data
12:45:26 <ericP> [Bernadette:'s slides]
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12:46:24 <ericP> Bernadette: 15km view: aiming to create a sustainable workflow around capture and publication of government LD
12:46:41 <ericP> ... many gov execs talk about the importance of open data.
12:46:48 <ericP> ... newling talking about machine-readable
12:47:04 <ericP> [slide: growing chorus]
12:47:28 <ericP> Bernadette: enabled with standards and agencies publishing 5* linked data
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12:48:00 <ericP> ... moving from research orgs, e.g. DERI, Gent University
12:48:35 <ericP> ... i feel that W3C needs to talk about how LD fits into the big data landscape
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12:49:23 <ericP> ... we have editors in our WG who write vocabs, which already have many implentations
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12:49:53 <ericP> ... WG has civil employees and practionres
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12:50:04 <ericP> ... alternate between vocabs and best practices
12:50:29 <ericP> ... three vocabs in REC-track
12:51:35 <SteveS> Note the Linked "Open" Data mug has been updated to include the work "Open" http://www.cafepress.com/w3c_shop.597992118
12:51:52 <ericP> ... making docs available on web platform
12:51:53 <SteveS> for 5 star Linked Open Data
12:52:20 <ericP> ... some vendors are marketing linked data for other purposes
12:52:27 <ericP> ... w3c needs to clarify the brand
12:53:11 <ericP> ... would like to hear W3C strengths and weakness wrt govornment outreach
12:53:28 <ericP> @gent: need to focus on machine-readable
12:53:47 <ericP> ... everyone can participate -- need to emphasize this
12:54:30 <ericP> SteveS: work on in integration for not just production but consumptiopn and manipulation
12:55:06 <ericP> BartvanLeeuwen: govornments oftent reluctant to put data on the web but others can make use of it
12:55:21 <ahaller2> +1
12:55:30 <ericP> HadleyBeeman: we see e.g. two local councils trying to publish data but not working together
12:56:02 <ericP> ... focus on transfering data between systems rather than APIs
12:56:47 <ericP> FabGandon: govs have data that they publish, but also need to use the data internally
12:57:26 <ericP> Bernadette: how could W3C do more to further your efforts? what do you need?
12:57:32 <ericP> ... .. marcom?
12:57:35 <ericP> ... .. specs?
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12:57:44 <ericP> ... .. conversations with senior officials?
12:58:22 <ericP> Armin: missing best practices for govts
12:58:45 <ericP> ... want to know how subdomains should use vocabs
12:59:02 <ericP> Bernadette: (as lead author):
12:59:17 <ericP> ... .. how to mint IRIs
12:59:21 <ericP> ... .. cookbook
12:59:37 <ericP> ... there's a book called "Linking Government Data"
13:00:24 <ericP> ivan: when you say "W3C", do you mean the 60 folks who work at w3c or the working groups and the community?
13:00:48 <ericP> ... i see the W3C folks as being facilitators for the community
13:01:37 <ericP> ... when *i* talk about LD to outsiders (as devil's advocate), i'm missing the convincing implementations which must be done with LD
13:02:08 <ericP> ... some exists, e.g. BartvanLeeuwen's, but we don't have the full persuasive power
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13:03:04 <FabGandon> ericP: I work in healthcare a lot
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13:03:33 <FabGandon> ... if I come with a cool RDF application it can allways be done another way
13:04:04 <FabGandon> ... if we want to convince people we need a business analysis
13:04:19 <sandro> eric: Anything you build with Linked Data you can build without it, but doing it with RDF has certain advantages -- easier, faster, extensible, connecting across domains.   But we need a business analysis, where people do it BOTH ways, and report both costs.
13:04:25 <FabGandon> ... a comparison between two ways of doing things
13:04:44 <FabGandon> ... this the way we will influence the way the budget will be invested
13:05:05 <FabGandon> ... otherwise it is hard to sale the case
13:05:10 <RalphS> ericP: ... Another way. Our intuition is that Linked Data is the most extensible way
13:05:37 <ericP> HadleyBeeman: to ericP and ivan, pointing to business case is fantastic, and we mostly see potential more than success stories
13:05:59 <ericP> ... i sat down with JeniT to see what happens when we *don't* use RDF
13:06:13 <ericP> ... most of our datasets are small and incomplete
13:06:25 <FabGandon> btw my point was that Linked Enterprise Data also applies to Governement Data, i.e. there is a case for none open data within the firewalls of government bodies.
13:06:32 <ericP> ... e.g. two columns of pothole location and a road name
13:06:50 <ericP> ... being able to annotate gives that actual value
13:06:58 <sandro> HadleyBeeman: lots of data like two column list of potholes -- date + road name.   Connect with post code or something and you know the location.   We still have the problem that a lot of our developers dont want to deal wit RDF.
13:07:14 <ericP> ... of course our developers don't wnat to deal with RDF, so we write lots of transforms
13:07:52 <ericP> shoaib: we have lots of govt clients. we need to express the value
13:08:25 <ericP> Bernadette: everything should be driven by use cases. i'd be happy if we had a place to write up case studies
13:08:52 <ericP> ... we no longer need to search for use cases in the wild.
13:09:09 <ericP> ... just came up with three from 3 round stones
13:09:59 <ericP> ivan: some years ago we had Semantic Web Education and Outreach group
13:10:28 <ericP> ... intially, lots of people published their case studies, btu it trickled down
13:11:03 <ericP> ... without a consistent manager, this info deteriorates
13:11:17 <ericP> Bernadette: one of the WG deliverables was a community directory
13:11:44 <ericP> ... people put info out as if it's a product, but as an academic project, it can go away at any time
13:13:51 <ericP> ... the interface on http://dir.w3.org/ needs work, but it still can serve as a community directory
13:14:08 <ericP> ... the ROI figures often don't exist, and won't for a few years
13:15:08 <ericP> ... knowing that there are other cities investing in LD helps them write the check
13:15:35 <sandro> (Surely we're still among Innovators, not Early Majority.  That was for html5.)
13:15:38 <ericP> Armin: this WG should be a facilitator for the governments serving the public good
13:16:12 <sandro> HadleyBeeman: tracking ROI costs additional money
13:16:15 <ericP> ... the intial invenstors will always get a negative ROI
13:16:36 <ericP> HadleyBeeman: tracking ROI is expensive; hard when budgets are tight
13:18:06 <ericP> BartvanLeeuwen: success stories often focus on agility. folks don't know where they're going and leverage simple steps
13:18:25 <ericP> JeniT: i don't talk about RDF at all
13:18:43 <ericP> ... i don't even talk about LD. just URIs for things and opening things up
13:18:53 <sandro> HadleyBeeman: govt (technology poliicy) is 80% politics and emotions
13:19:31 <sandro> JeniT: People put stuff up for the public good, but that wont keep it up.  For that, they need ongoing benefit.
13:19:35 <ericP> ... re: ROI for govt. govt can say they're acting in public good, but that's not sufficient
13:20:06 <ericP> ... need to focus on ongoing benefits
13:20:25 <ericP> judy: do you have a set of plain language talking points?
13:20:39 <ericP> ... could be useful in the egov part of the W3C website
13:21:01 <ericP> ... in WAI, folks asked us for a business case.
13:21:46 <ericP> ... rationale for invensting in accessibility wouldn't work for all business and orgs
13:22:09 <ericP> ... we now have set of four customizable use cases
13:22:43 <JeniT> technical factors / legal/regulatory / social responsibility / economic factors
13:22:55 <ericP> ... finanical benefit, social responsibility, legal and regulatory, technichal benefits (later re-use)
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13:23:54 <ericP> Bernadette: working with agencies, we need to help the procurment officer
13:24:18 <ericP> ... i'm trying to sell health care companies on the use of gov't data
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13:24:35 <ericP> ... they look bad if the e.g. FDA feed goes out of date
13:24:59 <ericP> JeniT: lots of data sites say "there is no guarantee this will persist"
13:25:08 <ericP> ... business can't build on that
13:25:24 <ericP> ... you need a formal contract with the suppliers
13:25:31 <ericP> Bernadette: like an MOU
13:25:45 <ericP> JeniT: we've signed MOUs with serveral businesses
13:25:51 <ericP> ivan: is there a technical solution?
13:26:09 <sandro> I believe we're 5 minutes over time....
13:26:10 <ericP> ... our model is that a govt agency publishes the data and presumes someone will use it
13:26:30 <ericP> ... if they knew the consumer, maybe they'd be more careful
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13:27:20 <ericP> martinAlvarez: training is important. developers need to see the value of using LD
13:27:21 <Judy> An example of a customizable business case for take-up of standards,
13:27:21 <Judy> from W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Education and Outreach WG
13:27:21 <Judy> "Developing a Web Accessibility Business Case for Your Organization"
13:27:21 <Judy> and then see the four "factors" areas highlighted under the top page, at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/
13:27:37 <ericP> ... the UK govt provides such training
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13:28:08 <ericP> ... in my experience, it's easy to convince govts to use LD to relase public data, but they don't see others using the data
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13:29:22 <ericP> s/gabriel: ethos/Gabriel Kepeklian: Societe ATOS
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15:04:36 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:04:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-linkeddata-minutes.html Ralph
15:05:10 <Ruben> rssagent, please make logs world-visible
15:06:19 <Ruben> Meeting: Linked Data/Gov Publishing
15:06:26 <Ruben> Chair: Bernadette Hyland
15:06:39 <Ruben> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:06:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-linkeddata-minutes.html Ruben
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