IRC log of dnt on 2012-10-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:24 [RRSAgent]
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15:01:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-dnt-irc
15:01:28 [Zakim]
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15:01:41 [npdoty]
Topic: w3c TPAC breakout session
15:02:29 [dsinger]
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15:09:29 [dsinger]
scribenick: dsinger
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15:09:56 [dsinger]
npdoty: introduces the tracking preference expression and compliance documents
15:09:59 [paulc]
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15:10:02 [rigo]
RRSAgent, start log
15:10:02 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'start log', rigo. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:10:05 [aleecia]
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15:10:11 [christine]
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15:10:16 [dsinger]
http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/drafts/tracking-dnt.html
15:10:22 [dsinger]
http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/drafts/tracking-compliance.html
15:10:28 [jalvinen]
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15:10:29 [anant]
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15:10:52 [dsinger]
npdoty: we have a large group (up to 100) with quite a few invited experts (consumer advocates, reps of reg. agencies, advertising side, and so on)
15:10:56 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:10:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-dnt-minutes.html adrianba
15:11:13 [DKA]
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15:11:18 [dbaron]
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15:11:18 [dsinger]
…group is at http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/
15:11:31 [kboudaou]
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15:11:37 [dbaron]
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15:11:43 [dsinger]
…the TPE document describes the 'immediate' on-wire protocol. The protocol is quite simple and short: DNT 0|1
15:11:53 [dsinger]
…also JS APIs, and a response framework
15:12:29 [DKA]
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15:12:39 [adrianba]
Meeting: Catch up on DNT
15:12:42 [dsinger]
…and then on compliance and scope, describes the server behavior in response to the preference
15:12:49 [shh]
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15:12:49 [adrianba]
Chair: Nick Doty
15:13:05 [dsinger]
…sets limits on collection/retention/use of data
15:13:06 [aleecia]
Zakim, this is dnt
15:13:06 [Zakim]
aleecia, I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be dnt".
15:13:12 [aleecia]
Zakim, this will be dnt
15:13:12 [Zakim]
ok, aleecia; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 47 minutes
15:13:20 [dsinger]
…compliance is under active debate
15:13:34 [dsinger]
…that's the summary, members are in the room
15:13:39 [aleecia]
regrets+ tl
15:14:32 [aleecia]
agenda+ Selection of scribe
15:14:49 [aleecia]
agenda+ Review of overdue action items: http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner
15:15:04 [aleecia]
agenda+ Quick check that callers are identified
15:15:18 [aleecia]
agenda+ Reminder on civil and constructing discussions and discussion of potential enforcement options.
15:15:18 [fluffy]
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15:15:30 [aleecia]
agenda+ Status of Global Considerations Document (Rigo will report)
15:15:36 [krp]
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15:15:38 [fwagner]
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15:15:45 [aleecia]
agenda+ AoB / Additions
15:15:54 [nkic]
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15:15:58 [paulc]
The TPAC breakout session is moving to #dntb
15:16:10 [aleecia]
agenda+ Pending review items
15:16:20 [aleecia]
(*that's* what's going on! Thanks Wendy)
15:16:22 [wei__]
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15:16:47 [aleecia]
agenda+ Announce next meeting & adjourn
15:20:20 [schunter]
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15:21:12 [tl]
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15:21:47 [aleecia]
Yes, the regular session is happening
15:21:53 [aleecia]
In 38 minutes
15:24:03 [chong]
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15:30:25 [Walter]
aleecia: I'm behind a proper internet link now, may be able to transcribe this time
15:30:41 [aleecia]
thanks!
15:30:44 [aleecia]
Scribe: Walter
15:31:05 [rigo_]
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15:31:05 [aleecia]
reminder: the TPAC session is in #dntb
15:31:18 [aleecia]
This is the normal weekly session of the TPWG, not the TPAC session
15:36:19 [DKA]
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15:44:58 [moneill2]
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15:52:33 [aleecia]
agenda+ open issues with no actions (issue-174, issue-175, issue-178, issue-180)
15:52:33 [jalvinen]
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15:53:12 [Zakim]
T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
15:53:19 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.674.aaaa
15:53:20 [aleecia]
great!
15:53:28 [aleecia]
agenda?
15:53:50 [aleecia]
Ah, can someone tell me how to flip 8 & 9 without redoing the entire agenda from scratch?
15:54:05 [Zakim]
+David_McMillan
15:54:22 [David]
David has joined #dnt
15:54:40 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:55:12 [npdoty]
Zakim, call Rhone_3
15:55:12 [Zakim]
ok, npdoty; the call is being made
15:55:14 [Zakim]
+Rhone_3
15:55:34 [npdoty]
Zakim, Rhone_3
15:55:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'Rhone_3', npdoty
15:55:36 [Zakim]
+??P6
15:55:41 [dsinger]
zakim, who is here?
15:55:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.408.674.aaaa, David_McMillan, ??P5, Rhone_3, ??P6
15:55:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see David, DKA, moneill2, rigo_, chong, tl, schunter, wei__, shh, kboudaou, aleecia, adrianba, dsinger, Zakim, RRSAgent, cabanier, tanvi, Walter, npdoty, mischat,
15:55:44 [Zakim]
... schunter2, trackbot, mamund_, hober, wseltzer
15:55:44 [BrendanIAB]
BrendanIAB has joined #dnt
15:55:45 [schunter]
Zakim, ??P5 is schunter
15:55:47 [Zakim]
+schunter; got it
15:55:50 [efelten]
efelten has joined #dnt
15:55:54 [schunter]
Zakim, mute me
15:55:55 [Zakim]
schunter should now be muted
15:55:57 [npdoty]
present+ npdoty, dsinger, adrianba, hober
15:56:02 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
15:56:02 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
15:56:08 [dsinger]
zakim, rhone_3 has npdoty, dsinger, rigo, hober
15:56:08 [Zakim]
+npdoty, dsinger, rigo, hober; got it
15:56:13 [cabanier]
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15:56:22 [dsinger]
zakim, rhone_3 has fwagner
15:56:22 [Zakim]
+fwagner; got it
15:56:23 [npdoty]
Zakim, rhone_3 has fwagner
15:56:24 [Zakim]
fwagner was already listed in Rhone_3, npdoty
15:56:35 [aleecia]
zakim, who is making noise?
15:56:36 [jeffwilson]
jeffwilson has joined #dnt
15:56:47 [Zakim]
aleecia, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P6 (14%)
15:56:50 [dsinger]
zakim, rhone_3 has adrianba
15:56:50 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
15:56:53 [tanvi]
tanvi has left #dnt
15:56:56 [aleecia]
zakim, mute ??p6
15:56:56 [Zakim]
??P6 should now be muted
15:57:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.265.aabb
15:57:03 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:57:15 [BrendanIAB]
Zakim, IPcaller is probably me
15:57:15 [Zakim]
+BrendanIAB?; got it
15:57:20 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:57:24 [Zakim]
-??P6
15:57:33 [jeffwilson]
zakim, aabb is jeffwilson
15:57:33 [Zakim]
+jeffwilson; got it
15:57:37 [fwagner]
fwagner has joined #dnt
15:57:53 [aleecia]
thank you, Brendan. You're really good about remembering to do that
15:58:07 [johnsimpson]
johnsimpson has joined #dnt
15:58:08 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:58:12 [dsinger]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:58:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.408.674.aaaa, David_McMillan, schunter (muted), Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
15:58:14 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has adrianba
15:58:18 [BrendanIAB]
It's tough to differentiate between IPcallers if I don't.
15:58:32 [BrendanIAB]
Even more so when I'm not in the office.
15:58:40 [moneill2]
zakim a is me
15:58:41 [Walter]
I'm on Skype and have no idea which IPcaller I am
15:58:43 [aleecia]
Yes, yes it is. So I very much appreciate that you're great about remembering. :-)
15:58:59 [aleecia]
Timing tends to matter in detangling it
15:59:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.310.392.aacc
15:59:14 [dwainberg]
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15:59:14 [dsinger]
zakim, rhone_3 has adrianba, rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober
15:59:15 [Zakim]
adrianba was already listed in Rhone_3, dsinger
15:59:16 [Zakim]
+rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober; got it
15:59:21 [ninjamarnau]
ninjamarnau has joined #dnt
15:59:21 [Joanne]
Joanne has joined #DNT
15:59:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.658.aadd
15:59:34 [johnsimpson]
zakim, aacc is johnsimpson
15:59:35 [Zakim]
+johnsimpson; got it
15:59:35 [moneill2]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
15:59:35 [Zakim]
+moneill2; got it
15:59:41 [suegl]
suegl has joined #dnt
15:59:42 [Zakim]
+ +49.431.98.aaee
15:59:43 [aleecia]
thanks, John!
15:59:44 [Walter]
Zakim: IPcaller is Walter
15:59:44 [hober]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.408.674.aaaa, David_McMillan, schunter (muted), Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, [IPcaller], moneill2, johnsimpson, +1.206.658.aadd, +49.431.98.aaee
15:59:48 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober
15:59:57 [ninjamarnau]
zakim, aaee is ninjamarnau
15:59:57 [Zakim]
+ninjamarnau; got it
16:00:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.331.aaff
16:00:18 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
16:00:22 [jchester2]
jchester2 has joined #dnt
16:00:32 [Zakim]
+[Google]
16:00:34 [npdoty]
Zakim, aadd is amyc
16:00:34 [Zakim]
+amyc; got it
16:00:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.520.aagg
16:00:45 [vinay]
vinay has joined #dnt
16:00:49 [Zakim]
+ +aahh
16:00:59 [aleecia]
zakim, aadd is meme
16:00:59 [Zakim]
sorry, aleecia, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:01:01 [pedermagee]
pedermagee has joined #dnt
16:01:01 [Joanne]
Zakim, aagg is Joanne
16:01:02 [Zakim]
+Joanne; got it
16:01:05 [Zakim]
+jchester2
16:01:15 [jchester2]
zakim, mute me
16:01:15 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
16:01:16 [Chris_IAB]
Chris_IAB has joined #dnt
16:01:17 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.269.aaii
16:01:22 [Chris_IAB]
Chris Mejia joining via Skype
16:01:23 [peter-4As]
peter-4As has joined #dnt
16:01:23 [vincent]
vincent has joined #dnt
16:01:27 [npdoty]
Zakim, IPcaller.a is probably Chris_IAB
16:01:27 [Zakim]
+Chris_IAB?; got it
16:01:29 [ifette]
ifette has joined #dnt
16:01:34 [DKA_]
DKA_ has joined #dnt
16:01:38 [npdoty]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.408.674.aaaa, David_McMillan, schunter (muted), Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, [IPcaller], moneill2, johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau,
16:01:39 [suegl]
zakim, aaii is suegl
16:01:39 [efelten]
efelten has joined #dnt
16:01:42 [Walter]
Zakim, Ipcaller is Walter
16:01:42 [Zakim]
... +1.202.331.aaff, Chris_IAB?, [Google], Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), +1.425.269.aaii
16:01:42 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober
16:01:42 [Zakim]
+suegl; got it
16:01:42 [Zakim]
+Walter; got it
16:01:45 [aleecia]
zakim, aaaa is aleecia
16:01:45 [Zakim]
+aleecia; got it
16:01:46 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:01:50 [aleecia]
zakim mute aleecia
16:01:56 [ifette]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, David_McMillan, schunter (muted), Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2, johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau, +1.202.331.aaff,
16:01:59 [Zakim]
... Chris_IAB?, [Google], Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, [IPcaller]
16:01:59 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober
16:01:59 [Zakim]
+Cyril_Concolato
16:02:02 [Chris_IAB]
btw- IAB is not receiving email due to Hurricane Sandy - so if you don't get a reply from me, that's why
16:02:07 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute aleecia
16:02:07 [Zakim]
aleecia should now be muted
16:02:12 [npdoty]
ack aleecia
16:02:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.609.865.aajj
16:02:15 [ifette]
zakim, google has ifette
16:02:15 [Zakim]
+ifette; got it
16:02:17 [shh]
shh has left #dnt
16:02:17 [vincent]
zakim, Cyril_Concolato is vincent
16:02:17 [Zakim]
+vincent; got it
16:02:22 [efelten]
Zakim, aajj is me
16:02:22 [Zakim]
+efelten; got it
16:02:35 [npdoty]
ack npdoty
16:02:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.728.aakk
16:02:38 [ifette]
zakim, aleecia is really not_aleecia
16:02:39 [Zakim]
+not_aleecia; got it
16:02:46 [vinay]
zakim, aakk is vinay
16:02:47 [Zakim]
+vinay; got it
16:02:50 [npdoty]
Zakim, not_aleecia is really aleecia
16:02:50 [Zakim]
+aleecia; got it
16:02:50 [dwainberg]
zakim, IPcaller is dwainberg
16:02:51 [Zakim]
+dwainberg; got it
16:02:56 [DKA_]
DKA_ has joined #dnt
16:03:00 [JC]
JC has joined #DNT
16:03:07 [rigo_]
zakim, mute room3
16:03:07 [Zakim]
sorry, rigo_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to room3
16:03:09 [ifette]
nick, i thought aleecia was trying to unassociate herself with that number?
16:03:13 [npdoty]
Zakim, who is making noise?
16:03:20 [rigo_]
zakim, mute roam3
16:03:20 [Zakim]
sorry, rigo_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to roam3
16:03:21 [dsinger]
zakim, mute rhone_3
16:03:21 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 was already muted, dsinger
16:03:24 [Zakim]
npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +aahh (4%)
16:03:26 [ifette]
got it
16:03:29 [aleecia]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:03:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, David_McMillan, schunter (muted), Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2, johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau, +1.202.331.aaff,
16:03:33 [Zakim]
... Chris_IAB?, [Google], Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay
16:03:33 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
16:03:33 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober
16:03:36 [johnsimpson]
hearing someone typing. might want to mute.
16:03:49 [npdoty]
Zakim, aaff is PeterK
16:03:49 [Zakim]
+PeterK; got it
16:03:51 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:04:09 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
ChrisPedigoOPA has joined #dnt
16:04:11 [npdoty]
Zakim, who is making noise?
16:04:21 [Zakim]
npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (75%)
16:04:45 [aleecia]
agenda?
16:04:55 [npdoty]
scribenick: Walter
16:04:58 [Walter]
when do I start?
16:04:59 [Walter]
ok
16:05:04 [adrianba]
zakim, adrianba entered Rhone_3
16:05:04 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
16:05:14 [Walter]
aleecia: starting with the action items
16:05:22 [rigo_]
zakim, who is here?
16:05:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, David_McMillan, schunter (muted), Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2, johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau, PeterK, Chris_IAB?,
16:05:23 [moneill2]
zakim, mute me
16:05:25 [Zakim]
... [Google], Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay, [Microsoft]
16:05:25 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
16:05:25 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober, adrianba
16:05:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisPedigoOPA, JC, DKA, efelten, ifette, vincent, peter-4As, Chris_IAB, pedermagee, vinay, jchester2, suegl, Joanne, ninjamarnau, dwainberg, johnsimpson, fwagner,
16:05:26 [Zakim]
... jeffwilson, BrendanIAB, David, moneill2, rigo_, tl, aleecia, adrianba
16:05:28 [Zakim]
moneill2 should now be muted
16:05:35 [aleecia]
http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner
16:05:38 [Walter]
aleecia starts with the url in IRC
16:05:43 [Brooks]
Brooks has joined #dnt
16:06:08 [Walter]
most of the actions that are open are not usual actions
16:06:10 [schunter]
schunter has joined #dnt
16:06:11 [npdoty]
action-255?
16:06:11 [trackbot]
ACTION-255 -- Alan Chapell to work on financial reporting text (with nick, ian) as alternative to legal requirements -- due 2012-09-19 -- OPEN
16:06:11 [aleecia]
action-255?
16:06:11 [Walter]
the next is action 255
16:06:13 [Walter]
Alan Chapell
16:06:16 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:06:17 [Zakim]
-schunter
16:06:18 [Chris_IAB]
aleecia, please not that many of us in NYC area have not had access to work email in days
16:06:20 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:06:24 [Zakim]
+ +1.917.934.aall
16:06:32 [jmayer]
jmayer has joined #dnt
16:06:34 [Walter]
who is talking now?
16:06:42 [susanisrael]
susanisrael has joined #dnt
16:06:44 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Mayer
16:06:45 [efelten]
+1 Chris_IAB, major connectivity issues in/near New York
16:06:45 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:06:45 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:06:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.678.580.aamm
16:06:56 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:07:03 [Zakim]
+??P28
16:07:06 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:07:06 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:07:08 [vincent]
Walter, I think it was npdoty
16:07:10 [Walter]
ok
16:07:12 [schunter]
Zakim, ??P28 is schunter
16:07:12 [Zakim]
+schunter; got it
16:07:22 [Walter]
Moving through the list
16:07:29 [Walter]
the next is Amy, Action 254
16:07:33 [Walter]
updating share definition
16:07:33 [npdoty]
npdoty: sent out text based on what I'd heard from Alan about potentially losing power, we had agreement on most of that, and I noted my additional suggestions
16:07:34 [hefferjr]
hefferjr has joined #dnt
16:07:34 [aleecia]
action-264?
16:07:34 [trackbot]
ACTION-264 -- Amy Colando to draft updated 'share' definition to avoid concerns (with rigo and chris-p) -- due 2012-10-10 -- OPEN
16:07:38 [Chris_IAB]
which Chris?
16:07:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.917.318.aann
16:07:40 [Walter]
eh, 264
16:07:44 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:08:01 [Walter]
(hard to follow now)
16:08:02 [fwagner]
fwagner has joined #dnt
16:08:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.813.366.aaoo
16:08:13 [Chapell]
Chapell has joined #DNT
16:08:15 [Walter]
Aleecia asks Amy to add the URL for the text to the Action number
16:08:21 [Chris_IAB]
npdoty and aleecia, please note that there are two Chris's :)
16:08:33 [Walter]
Is that also the case for action 264?
16:08:34 [hefferjr]
Zakim, aaoo is hefferjr
16:08:34 [Zakim]
+hefferjr; got it
16:08:42 [npdoty]
action-262?
16:08:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-262 -- Amy Colando to draft text regarding existing contracts (with vinay) -- due 2012-10-03 -- OPEN
16:08:50 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:09:01 [Walter]
Aleecia sees replies to Amy's text, but not the original
16:09:20 [Walter]
Action 245 is being left open for Nick and Jonathan to keep working on
16:09:20 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find 245. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/users>.
16:09:20 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:09:27 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:09:27 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:09:41 [Walter]
Then we have a number of actions of people not on the call
16:09:48 [aleecia]
action-323
16:09:55 [fielding]
fielding has joined #dnt
16:09:58 [Walter]
aleecia would like to see action on 323
16:10:06 [Walter]
to be taken action or it will be closed
16:10:07 [npdoty]
I've closed action 321, because we already had the discussion
16:10:09 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:10:22 [Zakim]
+ +1.714.852.aapp
16:10:24 [aleecia]
(321 was the call after the f2f)
16:10:36 [fielding]
zakim, aapp is fielding
16:10:36 [Zakim]
+fielding; got it
16:10:40 [Zakim]
+Chris_Pedigo
16:11:00 [Walter]
npdoty mentions that a conversation was had on 321 and that Tom took notes during that meeting
16:11:02 [Zakim]
-Chris_Pedigo
16:11:28 [Walter]
aleecia is going to send Tom a mail to request those notes
16:11:28 [Zakim]
+Chris_Pedigo
16:11:36 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:11:36 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:11:43 [rigo_]
trackbot, comment action-323 it is on Tom to send something to the mailing-list. Tom Loewenthal took notes on a Friday call we had with David Singer, Roy Fielding and Nick Doty
16:11:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-323 Share results of what-the-response-is-for discussion notes added
16:11:49 [Walter]
Moving throught the other actions, 202
16:11:56 [Walter]
draft intermediary requirements
16:12:05 [npdoty]
action-302?
16:12:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-302 -- Thomas Lowenthal to draft intermediary requirements, without implementation details (with Brendan) -- due 2012-10-22 -- OPEN
16:12:09 [Walter]
eh, 302
16:12:12 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:12:24 [rigo_]
yes
16:12:29 [Walter]
aleecia: Nick, are you able to make edits on 302?
16:12:41 [npdoty]
action-302?
16:12:41 [trackbot]
ACTION-302 -- Brendan Riordan-Butterworth to draft intermediary requirements, without implementation details (with Brendan) -- due 2012-10-22 -- OPEN
16:12:54 [vincent]
action-258 ?
16:13:01 [npdoty]
action-258?
16:13:09 [Walter]
aleecia: asks whether anyone is interested in working on Action 258 or it will be closed
16:13:13 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:13:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.642.aaqq
16:13:19 [rigo_]
action-258?
16:13:19 [AnnaLong]
AnnaLong has joined #dnt
16:13:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-258 -- Thomas Lowenthal to propose 'should' for same-party and why -- due 2012-10-22 -- OPEN
16:13:27 [npdoty]
close action-258
16:13:29 [Zakim]
+AnnaLong
16:13:39 [Walter]
Moving on
16:13:46 [Walter]
seeing two actions against (name not understood)
16:13:49 [npdoty]
action-258: no movement on this action, so we're closing it
16:13:53 [Walter]
Nex action is on linkability
16:14:07 [Walter]
aleecia mentions the DAA multisite principlies
16:14:14 [aleecia]
action-286?
16:14:18 [Walter]
Is there someone who would like to take this on?
16:14:18 [Chris_IAB]
Brendan or I can take it on
16:14:38 [kj]
kj has joined #dnt
16:14:43 [Walter]
286 is moved to BrendanIAB
16:14:51 [npdoty]
re-assigned to Brendan, feel free to work together with Chris and Lou
16:14:59 [rigo_]
action-286?
16:15:08 [Walter]
who is talking now?
16:15:23 [rigo]
walter, just type ?? if you don't know
16:15:25 [Walter]
Action 276
16:15:26 [aleecia]
action-276
16:15:28 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:15:42 [fielding]
action-276?
16:15:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-276 -- Luigi Mastria to provide text regarding data retention, applicable to finanical logging data -- due 2012-10-10 -- OPEN
16:15:45 [rigo]
action-276?
16:15:53 [Chris_IAB]
Brendan or I can do this one too
16:15:59 [Walter]
aleecia: if someone is familiar with what ??? had in mind, he or she can take it on
16:16:21 [Walter]
BrendanIAB: will take on 276
16:16:23 [aleecia]
+2 weeks for Brendan on 276
16:16:59 [Walter]
????
16:17:07 [Walter]
We have two actions against ????
16:17:10 [npdoty]
is Rachel on the call today?
16:17:11 [Walter]
she is not on the call
16:17:13 [npdoty]
s/????/Keith/
16:17:24 [aleecia]
action-327: Draft a proposal on advertising permitted use (with rachel)
16:17:31 [Chris_IAB]
aleecia, lots of people not able to join today due to Hurricane Sandy aftermath. Think we should not close anything today/this week, to allow people time to recover and re-connect
16:17:42 [rigo]
http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/327
16:17:46 [Walter]
aleecia is someone interested in taking those on or should we close it for lack of interest?
16:17:59 [Walter]
???? is interested tot take this on on behalf of ????
16:18:04 [jchester2]
I agree that because of the storm, we need to give more time
16:18:07 [rigo]
I will add a note to the action
16:18:09 [Chris_IAB]
npdoty, lots of people not able to join today due to Hurricane Sandy aftermath. Think we should not close anything today/this week, to allow people time to recover and re-connect
16:18:12 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:18:20 [npdoty]
Brendan is able to take these actions on on behalf of Keith/Rachel
16:18:27 [aleecia]
Brendan will take on action-327
16:18:38 [johnsimpson]
agree should give time because of storm...
16:18:44 [Walter]
The other one was marketing
16:18:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.643.aarr
16:18:50 [Walter]
probably the same conversation
16:18:51 [aleecia]
action-326, again Brendan
16:18:53 [Walter]
BrendanIAB agrees
16:19:06 [npdoty]
I think it would be good to prioritize these proposals as permitted uses are areas we're trying to work through now
16:19:07 [Walter]
aleecia thanks BrendanIAB
16:19:13 [Walter]
Nex we have on here
16:19:16 [Walter]
action 273
16:19:16 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
16:19:20 [rigo]
action-273?
16:19:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-273 -- Rob Sherman to propose text regarding multiple first parties -- due 2012-10-10 -- OPEN
16:19:22 [aleecia]
action-273, Propose text regarding multiple first parties
16:19:50 [Walter]
aleecia has not seen ???? on the call, he is based in DC and is probably not having power issues
16:19:53 [Walter]
is anyone working on this?
16:19:57 [npdoty]
s/????/Rob Sherman/
16:19:58 [Walter]
is this being discussed?
16:19:59 [dwainberg]
I know that some in DC are having net and phone issues
16:20:02 [rigo]
http://www.w3.org/mid/CC7FA482.12746%25robsherman@fb.com
16:20:08 [rigo]
is Rob's response
16:20:10 [Walter]
Greater DC area is still affected by Sandy
16:20:24 [npdoty]
Rob sent an initial proposal, but there was a request to update text regarding social widgets
16:20:31 [rigo]
see above
16:20:38 [npdoty]
"make revisions regarding clarity about not current social widgets 17 Oct 2012"
16:20:42 [Walter]
ChrisIAB mentions that it was his understanding that a text would be sent today
16:20:55 [npdoty]
s/ChrisIAB/ChrisPedigo/
16:21:07 [Walter]
apologies, this is a lot harder than I thought it would be
16:21:08 [suegl]
suegl has joined #dnt
16:21:21 [rigo]
I had exchanges with Rob about this and we were wondering about a certain wording
16:21:24 [Walter]
We have a number of actions for David Singer
16:21:24 [dsinger]
zakim, unmute rhone_3
16:21:24 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should no longer be muted
16:21:30 [rigo]
q?
16:21:59 [Walter]
David has been in an email conversation with Roy
16:22:01 [aleecia]
action-317, action-316, action-249 are in progress with Roy
16:22:04 [Walter]
about 249 and ????
16:22:11 [aleecia]
by next week
16:22:16 [Walter]
progress will have been made by next week
16:22:28 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:22:35 [aleecia]
action-307 is in progress, action-320 went out today
16:22:35 [Walter]
David mentions a mail on 307 and one on 320
16:22:38 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
apologies. need to drop off to meet a contractor at my house. storm damage.
16:22:46 [Zakim]
-Chris_Pedigo
16:22:50 [aleecia]
good luck, Chris!
16:23:05 [Walter]
David: needs some signal from the compliance editors when it is appropriate to edit the compliance document
16:23:29 [Walter]
David: does not understand 2??
16:23:34 [Walter]
rigo: mentions synchronisation
16:23:47 [Walter]
David: has changed them already, they are pending review now
16:23:58 [dsinger]
zakim, mute rhone_3
16:23:58 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:24:01 [Walter]
aleecia: sees another action for Rachel
16:24:09 [Walter]
Coming to action 270
16:24:10 [aleecia]
action-270 Propose existing DAA text for service providers
16:24:28 [Walter]
the issue is that service providers means something different to DAA than they do to W3C
16:24:36 [Walter]
aleecia suggests closing this one
16:24:50 [rigo]
q+
16:24:55 [fielding]
the def was proposed, so action complete
16:25:09 [Walter]
who is talking now?
16:25:15 [aleecia]
brendan
16:25:15 [rigo]
roy, I recollect the same. We had discussions and
16:25:23 [Walter]
BrendanIAB: wants some time to think this over
16:25:24 [Chris_IAB]
Walter, it's Brendan from IAB
16:25:34 [johnsimpson]
roy, my recollection as well
16:25:35 [rigo]
did not not find it better than our own
16:25:36 [Walter]
thanks, it is really difficult to follow who is talking at times
16:25:44 [aleecia]
ack rigo
16:25:45 [rigo]
q-
16:25:59 [rigo]
zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:25:59 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 was already muted, rigo
16:26:01 [aleecia]
270: owner change to bren & mark as pending review
16:26:10 [Walter]
For 289, definding unlinkable
16:26:12 [aleecia]
Define "unlinkable" related to section 3.6 on unlinkable data in compliance document
16:26:12 [johnsimpson]
as I recall it wasn't applicable..
16:26:19 [Walter]
aleecia thinks this is a duplicate
16:26:31 [Walter]
I think this is a separate task
16:26:44 [npdoty]
looks like a duplicate to me
16:26:48 [Walter]
a proper definition on data out os scope
16:27:04 [BrendanIAB]
286 vs 289 look very similar. 289 looks like it has 3.6 section ref tho
16:27:14 [rigo]
trackbot, comment action-289 this is a duplicate of action-286 and should be closed
16:27:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-289 Define "unlinkable" related to section 3.6 on unlinkable data in compliance document notes added
16:27:31 [npdoty]
in both cases, I think defining unlinkable is a key point about what's out of scope
16:28:13 [npdoty]
BrendanIAB, do you think they're distinct? you shouldn't take two actions if you don't know the difference
16:28:30 [rigo]
Walter: Not the same action, are distinct, should be done in cooperation
16:28:48 [npdoty]
if Walter can volunteer to work with Rachel/Brendan, that sounds good to me
16:28:57 [rigo]
q+
16:28:57 [Walter]
will be interesting, but ok
16:29:20 [rigo]
q-
16:29:20 [aleecia]
289 moves to walter
16:29:35 [Walter]
We are now at action 287
16:29:36 [aleecia]
Define "user expectation" as it's used in the context of the two documents.
16:29:42 [aleecia]
action-287
16:29:45 [rigo]
action-287?
16:29:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-287 -- Rachel Thomas to define "user expectation" as it's used in the context of the two documents. -- due 2012-10-10 -- OPEN
16:29:51 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:29:52 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
16:29:56 [Walter]
aleecia: does anyone know the progress on 287?
16:30:02 [Chapell]
I'm happy to take this on
16:30:09 [aleecia]
Nick speaking
16:30:25 [Walter]
Nick has discussed this with Rachel
16:30:58 [Walter]
??? would love to do the work, but it depends on Chris allowing him
16:31:04 [aleecia]
Chris
16:31:13 [rigo]
s/???/LouMastria/
16:31:23 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute me
16:31:23 [Zakim]
sorry, npdoty, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:31:38 [dsinger]
zakim, mute rhone_3
16:31:38 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:31:43 [Chapell]
sorry, I've got to jjmp off
16:31:50 [Chapell]
but I'm happy to help with this one
16:31:51 [tlr]
tlr has joined #dnt
16:32:07 [Chapell]
and nick has submitted my text
16:32:13 [Zakim]
- +1.917.318.aann
16:32:14 [npdoty]
chrisiab: would like to take this on, but not currently listed as a Participant
16:32:14 [DKA]
DKA has joined #dnt
16:32:25 [Walter]
aleecia my understanding in Amsterdam was that this was ongoing with the DAA, but we need to get this done, the IP protection has to be in place before people write on other texts
16:32:27 [npdoty]
npdoty: will follow up with Chris IAB and Lou regarding the paperwork
16:32:33 [dsinger]
zakim, tlr entered rhone_3
16:32:33 [Zakim]
+tlr; got it
16:32:34 [npdoty]
s/aleecia my/aleecia: my/
16:32:38 [aleecia]
agenda?
16:32:40 [Walter]
This brings us to the end of reviewing actions
16:32:50 [npdoty]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, David_McMillan, Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2 (muted), johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau, PeterK, Chris_IAB?, [Google],
16:32:54 [Zakim]
... Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay, [Microsoft], +1.917.934.aall, Jonathan_Mayer, +1.678.580.aamm, schunter (muted), hefferjr,
16:32:54 [Zakim]
... fielding, +1.202.642.aaqq, AnnaLong, +1.202.643.aarr
16:32:54 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
16:32:54 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober, adrianba, tlr
16:33:07 [rigo]
q?
16:33:21 [npdoty]
Zakim, aall is susanisrael
16:33:21 [Zakim]
+susanisrael; got it
16:33:38 [npdoty]
Zakim, aamm is Brooks
16:33:38 [Zakim]
+Brooks; got it
16:33:54 [npdoty]
Zakim, aaqq is BerinSzoka
16:33:54 [Zakim]
+BerinSzoka; got it
16:34:34 [Walter]
really not understandable at all
16:34:36 [Walter]
on this side
16:34:36 [npdoty]
Zakim, aarr is hwest
16:34:36 [Zakim]
+hwest; got it
16:34:57 [rigo]
zakim, who is here?
16:34:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, David_McMillan, Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2 (muted), johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau, PeterK, Chris_IAB?, [Google],
16:35:00 [Zakim]
... Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay, [Microsoft], susanisrael, Jonathan_Mayer, Brooks, schunter (muted), hefferjr, fielding, BerinSzoka,
16:35:00 [Zakim]
... AnnaLong, hwest
16:35:00 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
16:35:00 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober, adrianba, tlr
16:35:00 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DKA, tlr, trackbot, suegl, kj, AnnaLong, fielding, Chapell, fwagner, hefferjr, susanisrael, jmayer, schunter, Brooks, JC, efelten, ifette, vincent, peter-4As,
16:35:04 [Zakim]
... Chris_IAB, pedermagee, vinay, jchester2, Joanne, ninjamarnau, dwainberg
16:35:16 [schunter]
Zakim, unmute me
16:35:16 [Zakim]
schunter should no longer be muted
16:35:18 [npdoty]
ack schunter
16:35:26 [Walter]
npdoty: wanted to say something on civility on the mailing list
16:35:44 [npdoty]
s/npdoty/schunter/
16:35:46 [Walter]
we received multiple complaints about people not being as civil as they shou
16:36:02 [Walter]
a drastic possible message is to put the whole list on moderation
16:36:12 [Walter]
which whould slow down the speed of the conversation
16:36:16 [Walter]
which is not schunter
16:36:23 [Walter]
's preferred option
16:36:34 [Walter]
another option is to put certain members on moderation
16:36:40 [Walter]
which is not perfect either
16:37:03 [schunter]
q?
16:37:06 [Walter]
schunter: would hear some opinions
16:37:08 [npdoty]
q+
16:37:09 [ifette]
q+
16:37:10 [ifette]
\
16:37:13 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:37:14 [Walter]
would like to hear those
16:37:20 [Walter]
npdoty: wants to follow up
16:37:24 [aleecia]
zakim, mute aleecia
16:37:24 [Zakim]
aleecia should now be muted
16:37:28 [fielding]
restrict posting to actual written text for documents
16:37:39 [Walter]
npdoty: would encourage the group to have a productive environment and to have professional discussion
16:37:51 [schunter]
q?
16:37:51 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:37:51 [Walter]
we will follow up on the complaints
16:37:52 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:37:53 [npdoty]
q-
16:37:54 [schunter]
ack ifette
16:38:10 [Walter]
ifette: wants to see a more civil environment too
16:38:25 [Walter]
ifette: this group is moving incredibly slowly, moderation would be a killing blow
16:38:35 [Brooks]
q+
16:38:35 [dsinger]
q+ to suggest thread closing
16:38:40 [Walter]
as much as I would like to see more civility, I would not be supportive of official moderation policies
16:38:46 [schunter]
ack Brooks
16:38:49 [npdoty]
s/as much as/ifette: as much as/
16:38:59 [Walter]
Brooks: it might be helpful to explain what the actual policy
16:39:00 [Walter]
is
16:39:09 [Walter]
people are free to vehemently disagree with each other
16:39:17 [npdoty]
s/people/... people/
16:39:18 [Walter]
disagreement is not incivility
16:39:28 [Walter]
what specifically are we to avoid?
16:39:39 [johnsimpson]
good question, Brooks
16:39:44 [Walter]
schunter: what I would like to see is constructive behaviour which is to the point
16:39:49 [Walter]
not against persons, but on issues
16:40:08 [Walter]
... it is important to say what your proposal is, what you want to change
16:40:20 [Walter]
Brooks: that is telling us to be constructive, not about civility
16:40:20 [npdoty]
+1 to being both civil and constructive
16:40:35 [Walter]
schunter: the important point should be to move the discussion forward
16:40:44 [Brooks]
no agree, but I can disagree and not have the answer on hand
16:40:51 [Walter]
... I see the following concerns... I don't think your solution is not the right way forward
16:41:01 [npdoty]
schunter: important point of each message sent to the list should be to move the discussion forward
16:41:10 [johnsimpson]
+q
16:41:13 [tlr]
3.1 Individual Participation Criteria
16:41:13 [tlr]
There are three qualities an individual is expected to demonstrate in order to participate in W3C:
16:41:16 [tlr]
Technical competence in one's role
16:41:18 [Walter]
... a no-go area is talking against the person
16:41:18 [tlr]
The ability to act fairly
16:41:21 [tlr]
Social competence in one's role
16:41:23 [tlr]
Advisory Committee representatives who nominate individuals from their organization for participation in W3C Activities are responsible for assessing and attesting to the qualities of those nominees.
16:41:33 [schunter]
q?#
16:41:39 [dsinger]
zakim, unmute rhone_3
16:41:39 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should no longer be muted
16:41:41 [Walter]
schunter: does that answer the question?
16:41:42 [schunter]
ack dsinger
16:41:42 [Zakim]
dsinger, you wanted to suggest thread closing
16:41:48 [tlr]
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#ParticipationCriteria
16:42:10 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:42:10 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:42:13 [Walter]
David: chair should take the possibility to respond to uncivil messages on-list mentioning that this will not be considered
16:42:14 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:42:16 [hwest]
hwest has joined #dnt
16:42:18 [Walter]
schunter: good point
16:42:21 [johnsimpson]
q?
16:42:22 [BerinSzoka]
BerinSzoka has joined #DNT
16:42:23 [jchester2]
+q
16:42:25 [schunter]
ack johnsimpson
16:42:26 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute rhone_3
16:42:26 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:42:28 [jchester2]
zakim, unmute me
16:42:28 [Zakim]
jchester2 should no longer be muted
16:42:33 [dsinger]
zakim, mute rhone_3
16:42:33 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 was already muted, dsinger
16:42:35 [BerinSzoka]
the other reason that would be helpful is that it would illustrate clearly what exactly we're considering to be uncivil
16:42:44 [Chris_IAB]
Agree that MRC staff and Co-Chairs should monitor more (as possible), but not gate emails due to time concerns
16:42:46 [Walter]
jchester2: two things that happened
16:42:57 [npdoty]
s/MRC/W3C/
16:42:57 [Walter]
... the ability to ask clarifying questions is important
16:43:11 [jchester2]
Walter--speaking is John Simpson
16:43:15 [Walter]
drat
16:43:22 [tlr]
s/jchester2:/johnsimpson:/
16:43:24 [efelten]
especially questions about the meaning of proposed text
16:43:26 [BerinSzoka]
maybe I don't follow the list closely enough but I'm just not sure what kind of behavior we're concerned with here. could anyone provide examples--non-linkable to the speaker, of course
16:43:36 [Chris_IAB]
taking certain threads offline is also a good idea, especially around clarifications
16:43:37 [npdoty]
q?
16:43:38 [Walter]
johnsimpson: the questions turned out to be upsetting
16:43:58 [Chris_IAB]
you can already bring them back online
16:44:06 [schunter]
q?
16:44:07 [Walter]
schunter: questions "are you out of your mind" are not the best questions
16:44:13 [schunter]
;-)
16:44:14 [susanisrael]
q+
16:44:18 [Walter]
johnsimpson: I'm genuinely trying to understand some of the issues
16:44:18 [jmayer]
+q
16:44:26 [Chris_IAB]
q+
16:44:38 [Walter]
schunter: when you read a message you should assume it is in good faith
16:45:05 [Walter]
schunter: you could interpret a message in an offensive way, but should take the benefit of doubt
16:45:21 [Walter]
... even if you could find a minor offense in the message
16:45:34 [Walter]
... it is important to try to de-escalate, even if you read some offense in the message
16:45:47 [schunter]
q?
16:45:48 [Walter]
... it is clearly important to ask clarifying questions
16:45:52 [schunter]
ack jchester
16:46:03 [Walter]
jchester2: am glad that W3C is bringing this up
16:46:16 [Walter]
... I have been receiving private mails about the unnecessary tone of the discourse
16:46:18 [johnsimpson]
good points, Matthias
16:46:32 [Walter]
... I gather from these e-mails that people are trying to reconcile the issues off-list
16:46:44 [Walter]
... in part I think we are trying to ironing out global political issues
16:46:45 [Chris_IAB]
+1 to jchester2 's first statement
16:46:54 [jchester2]
mute me
16:47:03 [jchester2]
zakim, mute me
16:47:03 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
16:47:16 [schunter]
ack susanisrael
16:47:21 [Walter]
schunter: we should discuss all aspects at hand and not take the political system as a role model
16:47:32 [jmayer]
q-
16:47:36 [Walter]
susanisrael: wonders whether making the list non-public would help
16:47:42 [efelten]
efelten has joined #dnt
16:47:51 [Walter]
susanisrael: I am wondering if some people are dressing mails up for a wider audience
16:47:56 [Walter]
susanisrael: +1
16:48:02 [aleecia]
we might also look at a discuss list plus a focused list for getting through the work
16:48:03 [David]
You need public visibility on this process.
16:48:17 [npdoty]
our charter requires that our work is primarily done on public mailing lists
16:48:23 [Walter]
schunter: asks whether susanisrael thinks the list would be more civil if it was private
16:48:25 [rigo]
+1 to have a member channel for the controversial stuff and still be accountable to the public
16:48:30 [rigo]
with a common message
16:48:37 [Walter]
susanisrael: thinks that some messages are placed there for a wider audience, but is not sure
16:48:38 [schunter]
q?
16:48:46 [schunter]
ack Chris_IAB
16:49:11 [Walter]
Chris_IAB: I want to thank schunter for stepping in
16:49:18 [Walter]
.. it is important to try to remain civil
16:49:43 [johnsimpson]
There is also the question of posts to the list by people who are not members of the WG. Often they make good comments, but not always...
16:49:45 [Walter]
... I want to apologise if anyone has taken my comments as offensive, it is difficult to tell if a text is as offensive as it is read
16:50:01 [Walter]
... maybe we can move to a more spoken forum to prevent this
16:50:20 [Walter]
... asks the co-chairs to look more often if something can better be moved to a call
16:50:24 [Walter]
-1
16:50:39 [Walter]
... again apologies, please understand that I am direct at times
16:50:53 [Walter]
... we at IAB have good intentions with working with this group
16:51:07 [jmayer]
+q
16:51:11 [Walter]
schunter: it is important to note that written messages are more likely to get out of hand
16:51:23 [schunter]
q?
16:51:36 [dsinger]
…notes that apologies (such as we just graciously had) go a long way to reducing temperature
16:51:39 [Walter]
schunter: it is easier to be offensive in written communication
16:51:43 [aleecia]
:-)
16:51:45 [dsinger]
:-)
16:51:48 [aleecia]
"don't drink and post"
16:51:49 [Walter]
jmayer: none should be drinking and writing
16:51:53 [schunter]
ack jmayer
16:51:57 [npdoty]
s/jmayer/ChrisIAB/
16:52:40 [ifette]
q+
16:52:40 [aleecia]
Perhaps Nick would like to take this one
16:52:48 [npdoty]
q+
16:52:50 [Walter]
jmayer: I have had difficulties to explain my involvement with W3C at Stanford, if there is no progress
16:53:07 [aleecia]
ifette, would you mind letting npdoty speak first?
16:53:16 [ifette]
q=npdoty,ifette
16:53:21 [Walter]
... and openness, the fact of the matter is that this is was completely unacceptable
16:53:21 [ifette]
queue=npdoty,ifette
16:53:27 [aleecia]
thank you
16:53:31 [jchester2]
I agree that raising issue of Jonathan's relationship with Stanford was inappropriate and should not be condoned.
16:53:35 [ifette]
Np. Call it an exercise in civility :)
16:53:36 [Walter]
... an ad hominem attack on the academic standing of the institution
16:53:41 [tlr]
q+
16:53:44 [Walter]
jchester2: +1
16:53:54 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Mayer
16:53:54 [ifette]
though i would like to reply directly to what j.m. said
16:53:54 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
16:53:55 [ifette]
wtf
16:53:56 [Walter]
... as best as I can tell the group is doing nothing
16:54:00 [npdoty]
ack npdoty
16:54:03 [ifette]
"shame on you all, hang up"
16:54:07 [Walter]
npdoty: thanks for your input
16:54:17 [ifette]
riiight
16:54:18 [aleecia]
ack npdoty
16:54:29 [Walter]
who is talking now?
16:54:29 [jmayer]
Corporations is at 10am every Wednesday...
16:54:33 [ifette]
npdoty is talking
16:54:41 [Walter]
npdoty: there are escalation procedures
16:54:53 [Walter]
... we take these things very seriously
16:54:56 [ifette]
q?
16:54:56 [Walter]
+q
16:55:03 [aleecia]
ack tlr
16:55:21 [Walter]
tlr: we are indeed following up on everything, that may involve educating individuals on civility
16:55:35 [schunter]
q?
16:55:38 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
16:55:38 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
16:55:39 [Walter]
... we will take this offline
16:55:41 [schunter]
ack ifette
16:55:58 [Walter]
ifette: this is an interesting example of the importance of a civil discussion
16:56:15 [BerinSzoka]
- Maybe W3C should buy everyone a copy of "How to Win Friends & Influence People"?
16:56:25 [Walter]
... the underlying question was not attacking academic freedom
16:56:37 [Walter]
... who is representing an organisation
16:56:41 [npdoty]
npdoty: might have been missed in the minutes before, so I wanted to repeat: we are following up with all complaints that have been received, and that we have an escalation procedure to use if necessary, which I hope it won't be
16:56:45 [Walter]
... is a question which is fair to ask
16:56:46 [Chris_IAB]
+1 to ifette
16:56:48 [WileyS]
WileyS has joined #dnt
16:57:02 [Walter]
tlr: good point
16:57:12 [npdoty]
s/tlr/schunter/
16:57:21 [schunter]
q?
16:57:25 [Walter]
tlr: to make it clear we are adressing the question about jonathan's affiliation with stanford
16:57:27 [schunter]
ack Walter
16:57:43 [npdoty]
not sure the minutes are capturing this piece correctly
16:57:48 [npdoty]
s/tlr/schunter/
16:58:00 [aleecia]
Walter: frustrated, questions not as inquires but as implied question of credibility
16:58:17 [aleecia]
… part of some of the complaints, will wait to see what re-education I get on civility
16:58:27 [rigo]
q+ to talk about a large cultural array of people
16:58:36 [Chris_IAB]
for my part, not intended Walter, and sincere apologies if I miscommunicated or I was misunderstood-- not my intention at all
16:58:36 [aleecia]
… not as involved as Jonathan has been but - (lost rest, please add, Walter)
16:58:51 [dsriedel]
dsriedel has joined #dnt
16:59:11 [Walter]
aleecia: I have been wondering to what extent my involvement with this group makes sense under the circumstances
16:59:25 [jchester2]
I agree with what Mattias is saying
16:59:27 [npdoty]
s/(lost rest, please add, Walter)/have had concerns about questioning my credibility and whether it's worthwhile to continue participation
16:59:30 [Walter]
aleecia: the circumstances being messages that I perceived as veiled threats about my employer etc.
16:59:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.229.aass
16:59:40 [npdoty]
s/aleecia:/aleecia,/
16:59:40 [aleecia]
(to be clear, that was Walter adding to the record, not aleecia speaking)
16:59:44 [aleecia]
q?
16:59:44 [schunter]
q?
16:59:47 [rigo]
ack Rhone_3
16:59:48 [npdoty]
s/aleecia: I have/aleecia, I have/
16:59:51 [WileyS]
WileyS has joined #dnt
16:59:52 [npdoty]
ack rigo
16:59:52 [Zakim]
rigo, you wanted to talk about a large cultural array of people
16:59:59 [schunter]
Zakim, mute me
16:59:59 [Zakim]
schunter should now be muted
17:00:03 [Walter]
rigo: We are in a diverse audience
17:00:15 [Brooks]
in fairness, we aren't all equal experts
17:00:23 [Zakim]
+ +49.721.83.aatt
17:00:28 [Walter]
... some terms which are standard in one context are very provocative in another context
17:00:40 [aleecia]
Anyone in the room knows something interesting to contribute. Anyone.
17:00:54 [dsriedel]
zakim, aatt is me
17:00:54 [Zakim]
+dsriedel; got it
17:00:58 [dsriedel]
zakim, mute me
17:00:58 [Zakim]
dsriedel should now be muted
17:01:08 [aleecia]
Not everyone contributes the same level, but all are able to contribute something, or would not be here
17:01:17 [Walter]
... to give an example when w3c joined a open standards effort the entire OSS community was upset about wording that had been previously used to justify software patents
17:01:29 [Walter]
... you create some wording that may offend others without even knowing
17:01:48 [Walter]
+q
17:01:49 [Brooks]
if Roy makes a claim about how apache works, and I disagree, he may ask me what I know if I disagree
17:01:54 [Chris_IAB]
agree with you Rigo; always good to clarify off-line, 1-1, if you feel there is an issue
17:01:58 [susanisrael]
people have different areas of expertise, as well. +1 aleecia
17:01:58 [WileyS]
WileyS has joined #dnt
17:02:02 [schunter]
Zakim, unmute me
17:02:02 [Zakim]
schunter should no longer be muted
17:02:05 [aleecia]
q?
17:02:06 [schunter]
q?
17:02:12 [aleecia]
ack Walter
17:02:19 [rigo]
zakim, mute Rhone_3
17:02:20 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
17:02:22 [aleecia]
Walter: agrees with Rigo
17:02:43 [aleecia]
… some wording from people with corporate background seen through the lens of corporate politics,
17:02:56 [aleecia]
… not sure to what extent the rules of thumb here do apply
17:02:56 [npdoty]
in case it was missed, I certainly take this very seriously. the group cannot be productive if people feel threatened and we are spending our time on responding to negativity instead of participating within the group.
17:03:01 [dwainberg]
?
17:03:04 [aleecia]
+1 nick
17:03:06 [Chris_IAB]
+q
17:03:13 [aleecia]
q?
17:03:17 [rigo]
zakim, close the queue
17:03:17 [Zakim]
ok, rigo, the speaker queue is closed
17:03:26 [aleecia]
ack Chris_IAB
17:03:29 [Walter]
Chris_IAB: I think we are all professionals
17:03:38 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
17:03:41 [schunter]
q?
17:03:45 [Walter]
... if someone feels attacked I encourage to contact the other person offline
17:04:02 [BerinSzoka]
is Jonathan no longer on the phone?
17:04:03 [Walter]
... to take a step off the thread and make sure it is clarified
17:04:17 [amyc]
amyc has joined #dnt
17:04:27 [Walter]
... and if you still feel attacked take it to the chairs or tlr
17:04:28 [dsinger]
strongly supports taking it offline; heated threads tend to get long, as well, and keeping up with the group becomes a challenge, separating 'wheat' from 'chaff'
17:04:28 [aleecia]
correct. he leaves a little before 10 to make his morning class
17:04:40 [WileyS]
zakim who is on the call
17:04:58 [dsinger]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:04:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia (muted), David_McMillan, Rhone_3 (muted), jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2 (muted), johnsimpson, amyc, ninjamarnau, PeterK, Chris_IAB?,
17:05:02 [Zakim]
... [Google], Joanne, +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay, susanisrael, Brooks, schunter, hefferjr, fielding, BerinSzoka, AnnaLong, hwest,
17:05:02 [Zakim]
... +1.858.229.aass, dsriedel (muted)
17:05:02 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:05:02 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober, adrianba, tlr
17:05:06 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:05:06 [Walter]
schunter: what is important it is important not to reply but to notify aleecia or me
17:05:09 [Zakim]
-amyc
17:05:43 [npdoty]
please feel free to include me if I can help in following up at all
17:05:44 [Walter]
... it is very easy to get into escalation mode
17:05:48 [aleecia]
agenda?
17:05:52 [Walter]
... I would like to close this topic
17:06:09 [Walter]
??? I may have missed this part
17:06:21 [Walter]
... what occurs is a one time offense, multi-time offense
17:06:22 [aleecia]
Shane asks what happens when W3C staff gets involved
17:06:24 [npdoty]
s/???/WileyS:/
17:06:28 [aleecia]
Nick?
17:06:29 [npdoty]
Zakim, ack Rhone_3
17:06:29 [Zakim]
unmuting Rhone_3
17:06:30 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:06:34 [WileyS]
WileyS has joined #dnt
17:06:41 [Walter]
schunter: good point, we do not have a formal escalation procedure at this point
17:06:43 [rigo]
zakim, who is here?
17:06:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia (muted), David_McMillan, Rhone_3, jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2 (muted), johnsimpson, ninjamarnau, PeterK, Chris_IAB?, [Google], Joanne,
17:06:46 [Zakim]
... +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay, susanisrael, Brooks, schunter, hefferjr, fielding, BerinSzoka, AnnaLong, hwest, +1.858.229.aass, dsriedel
17:06:46 [Zakim]
... (muted), [Microsoft]
17:06:46 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:06:46 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober, adrianba, tlr
17:06:49 [aleecia]
Thomas: escalation path is clear
17:06:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see WileyS, amyc, dsriedel, BerinSzoka, hwest, DKA, tlr, trackbot, suegl, kj, AnnaLong, fielding, fwagner, hefferjr, susanisrael, schunter, Brooks, JC, ifette, vincent,
17:06:50 [Zakim]
... peter-4As, Chris_IAB, pedermagee, vinay, jchester2, Joanne, ninjamarnau
17:07:00 [Walter]
tlr: the escalation path is clear, each of the complaints we have had...
17:07:01 [aleecia]
… each complaint in the latest round, we talk to the party that makes it
17:07:09 [WileyS]
Zakim, aass is WileyS
17:07:09 [Zakim]
+WileyS; got it
17:07:10 [Walter]
... we will see if we can get to a useful result
17:07:23 [Walter]
... hope very much that we will not need to remove people from the mailing list
17:07:46 [Walter]
... in the extreme case we may have to end up in a situation where we have to ask the director to remove people from the group
17:08:00 [jchester2]
Shane: Zakim meant nothing personal!
17:08:03 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
17:08:03 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
17:08:07 [Walter]
... we will definitely follow-up on every complaint received
17:08:09 [aleecia]
zakim, unmute me
17:08:09 [Zakim]
aleecia should no longer be muted
17:08:14 [aleecia]
q?
17:08:19 [npdoty]
Zakim, open the queue
17:08:20 [Zakim]
ok, npdoty, the speaker queue is open
17:08:24 [aleecia]
agenda?
17:08:33 [Walter]
schunter: the next item on the agenda is global considerations
17:08:33 [npdoty]
Topic: Global Considerations
17:08:37 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
17:08:38 [schunter]
Zakim, mute me
17:08:38 [aleecia]
zakim, mute me
17:08:39 [Zakim]
schunter should now be muted
17:08:39 [Zakim]
aleecia should now be muted
17:09:08 [Walter]
rigo: we had a technical plenary, I just gave a status report to the group
17:09:14 [Walter]
... and now to you all
17:09:23 [npdoty]
s/the group/to a breakout group/
17:09:31 [Walter]
... we had a lunch table at the F2F in Amsterdam
17:09:57 [Walter]
... I had by e-mail expressions of further interest
17:10:06 [Walter]
... there are two options on the table
17:10:09 [npdoty]
BoF table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_feather_%28computing%29
17:10:16 [Walter]
... 1) workshop for the general public
17:10:24 [Walter]
... 2) work within the context of this working group
17:11:02 [Walter]
... I have asked if they would mind a task force within the working group
17:11:06 [Walter]
... which they didn't
17:11:19 [Walter]
... IAB EU has been asked for a location
17:11:29 [Walter]
... 19 November was coined, but none was available on that date
17:11:49 [Walter]
... Rob suggested postponing it to January
17:12:08 [Walter]
... we decided to move to January, I will write an introduction to you all
17:12:16 [Walter]
... about what we will try to accomplish
17:12:30 [Walter]
... once we have this discussed to have a F2F in Southern Europe
17:12:44 [Walter]
... specification of DNT:0
17:12:47 [Walter]
... and other parts
17:13:00 [Walter]
... whether we want to have a separate document
17:13:05 [Walter]
... or to have it included in the spec
17:13:15 [Walter]
... to get to a point what DNT:0 at least means
17:13:32 [Walter]
... OTOH we don't want to restrict the rest of the world
17:13:56 [Walter]
... we have to state somewhere that we in EU have no distinction between 1st and 3rd parties
17:14:13 [Walter]
... and finally we will have to have some discussions on the permitted uses
17:14:18 [johnsimpson]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:14:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia (muted), David_McMillan, Rhone_3, jeffwilson, BrendanIAB?, Walter, moneill2 (muted), johnsimpson, ninjamarnau, PeterK, Chris_IAB?, [Google], Joanne,
17:14:22 [Zakim]
... +aahh, jchester2 (muted), suegl, dwainberg, vincent, efelten, vinay, susanisrael, Brooks, schunter (muted), hefferjr, fielding, BerinSzoka, AnnaLong, hwest, WileyS, dsriedel
17:14:22 [Zakim]
... (muted), [Microsoft]
17:14:22 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:14:22 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 has rigo, npdoty, dsinger, fwagner, hober, adrianba, tlr
17:14:30 [Zakim]
-efelten
17:14:33 [Walter]
... whether they work in the EU context and what has to be done to make them work in order to get a unified model
17:14:41 [dsinger]
zakim, tlr left rhone_3
17:14:41 [Zakim]
-tlr; got it
17:14:50 [Walter]
... or whether we have to split between US/EU
17:14:54 [Brooks]
permitted uses are not relative to the US market
17:14:56 [Walter]
... this is all up for discussion
17:15:00 [dsinger]
zakim, hober left rhone_3
17:15:00 [Zakim]
-hober; got it
17:15:07 [Walter]
... this or next week there will be an introductory mail
17:15:22 [aleecia]
Note we have a different mailing list already
17:15:23 [dsinger]
zakim, adrianba left rhone_3
17:15:23 [Zakim]
-adrianba; got it
17:15:44 [Brooks]
q+
17:15:46 [WileyS]
Aleecia - a different mailing list for Global Considerations?
17:15:55 [aleecia]
Rigo, you might want to work with Nick regarding the existing dlist for global considerations
17:15:58 [WileyS]
Aleecia, if yes, what is the list name?
17:16:03 [schunter]
Zakim, unmute me
17:16:03 [Zakim]
schunter should no longer be muted
17:16:05 [schunter]
q?
17:16:13 [aleecia]
zakim, unmute me
17:16:13 [Zakim]
aleecia should no longer be muted
17:16:16 [aleecia]
oops! sorry
17:16:21 [aleecia]
ack Brooks
17:16:25 [npdoty]
we created http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking-international/ back in Brussels related to that topic
17:16:29 [aleecia]
forgot I was muted :-)
17:16:47 [Walter]
Brooks: I just want to point that out that specific permitted uses are relative to US industry requirements and equally relative to EU requirements
17:16:58 [Walter]
... they are just as applicable to EU as to the USA
17:17:14 [aleecia]
agenda?
17:17:41 [Walter]
rigo: we do have some wiggle room, we have to negotiate this with the DPAs
17:17:54 [Walter]
rigo: there is a different kind of negotiation ground
17:18:10 [Walter]
... we will try to make clear what the bargaining situation is
17:18:24 [Walter]
... the benefit of a global tool versus regional versions
17:18:30 [npdoty]
I think we all accept that there will be cases where DNT compliance alone won't guarantee certain levels of legal compliance in EU
17:19:11 [Chris_IAB]
Matthias, which group is that? I was also left a bit confused, but I want to learn more.
17:19:11 [Walter]
aleecia: will you take this up as an action
17:19:17 [Walter]
to rigo
17:19:23 [Walter]
rigo: what is the timeframe
17:19:28 [npdoty]
action: rigo to send a reminder about http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking-international/
17:19:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-330 - Send a reminder about http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking-international/ [on Rigo Wenning - due 2012-11-07].
17:19:29 [Walter]
aleecia: whenever you are ready
17:19:29 [rigo]
Brooks, take it offline and send me email
17:19:41 [npdoty]
Zakim, mute Rhone_3
17:19:41 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
17:19:43 [aleecia]
agenda?
17:19:45 [schunter]
Zakim, mute me
17:19:47 [Zakim]
schunter should now be muted
17:19:50 [dsinger]
zakim, mute rhone_3
17:19:50 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 was already muted, dsinger
17:19:59 [Walter]
aleecia: we have a couple of items we are unlikely to get through
17:20:09 [dsinger]
issue-174?
17:20:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-174 -- How do we create straightforward compliance for implementers retaining data for N weeks or less? -- raised
17:20:21 [Walter]
aleecia: I just want to get through to see whether someone will take action ont hese
17:20:32 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
17:20:43 [dsinger]
ins't the raw data exception directly related?
17:21:06 [Walter]
(couldn't make out what was said)
17:21:15 [aleecia]
issue-175?
17:21:15 [trackbot]
ISSUE-175 -- Have an appendix of best practices? -- raised
17:21:16 [dsinger]
issue-175?
17:21:16 [rigo]
I found the text nice. NInja commented and it was rather constructive
17:21:31 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
17:21:37 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
17:21:58 [Walter]
npdoty: I am happy to propose to the group what the organisation would look like
17:21:59 [aleecia]
issue-178?
17:21:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-178 -- Add "Marketing" to list of permitted uses in Compliance document -- raised
17:22:08 [WileyS]
Nick, this is what we touched on a bit this morning (appendix), correct?
17:22:16 [dsinger]
looks like action-326 to me
17:22:21 [dsinger]
action-326?
17:22:23 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
17:22:24 [npdoty]
WileyS, yes, in part
17:22:30 [WileyS]
Nick, okay
17:22:31 [rigo]
action-326?
17:22:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-326 -- Keith Scarborough to draft a proposal on marketing permitted use (with rachel) -- due 2012-10-24 -- OPEN
17:22:38 [aleecia]
issue-180?
17:22:52 [Walter]
(inaudible)
17:22:57 [dsinger]
ISSUE-180
17:22:58 [dsinger]
Keith ScarboroughRAISEDAdd "advertising" as a Permitted Use in the Compliance Document
17:23:08 [rigo]
https://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/180
17:23:14 [WileyS]
Nick, don't disagree with the approach but could you help us understand where non-normative examples would remain in the body of the document and when they should be moved/copied in the "best practices" appendix? Thank you.
17:23:14 [npdoty]
I suggest we can open these issues once (on the additional permitted uses to discuss, and appendix)
17:23:15 [rigo]
ACTION-180: Provide a text update to section 4.3 to resolve issue 116 and ISSUE-84
17:23:21 [npdoty]
Zakim, please mute rhone_3
17:23:21 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
17:23:27 [Walter]
aleecia: I am actually feeling we are making progress
17:23:31 [dsinger]
action 327
17:23:34 [aleecia]
agenda?
17:23:43 [npdoty]
q+
17:23:57 [rigo]
zakim, next agendum
17:23:57 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Selection of scribe" taken up [from aleecia]
17:24:11 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
17:24:11 [schunter]
Zakim, unmute me
17:24:11 [rigo]
zakim, take up agendum 6
17:24:12 [Zakim]
schunter should no longer be muted
17:24:12 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "AoB / Additions" taken up [from aleecia]
17:24:13 [aleecia]
ack npdoty
17:24:23 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #dnt
17:24:25 [Walter]
npdoty: just on those issues, should we open them?
17:24:36 [Walter]
aleecia: yes, they should move from raised to open
17:24:40 [npdoty]
Zakim, please mute Rhone_3
17:24:40 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
17:25:00 [Walter]
... we have actions against them, so they should transition to open
17:25:29 [schunter]
Zakim, mute me
17:25:29 [Zakim]
schunter should now be muted
17:25:30 [aleecia]
https://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/pendingreview
17:25:43 [dwainberg]
Aleecia, what about the timeline for getting to LC?
17:25:47 [Walter]
now the pending review actions are adressed
17:25:54 [aleecia]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2012Oct/0652.html
17:26:53 [Zakim]
-vinay
17:27:00 [WileyS]
Aleecia, originally helped write that text but am now in the camp with David
17:27:05 [Walter]
is there any other discussion on the three options we have?
17:27:23 [npdoty]
I thought we previously had agreement on this, but I don't have additional options beyond these.
17:28:20 [Walter]
aleecia: I suggest we take two days to discuss this further
17:28:28 [jchester2]
I think you should wait until Monday until power is restored.
17:28:35 [Walter]
aleecia: but then move to start it through the decision-making process
17:28:52 [Walter]
??? mentions that two days is too short under the circumstances
17:28:56 [dwainberg]
q+
17:28:59 [npdoty]
s/???/BrendanIAB/
17:29:13 [Zakim]
-hwest
17:29:15 [susanisrael]
east coast power may not be fully available until monday. +1 to rigo's suggestion that we give people a week as a courtesy
17:29:29 [jchester2]
+ Rigo's proposal for one week
17:29:29 [Walter]
dwainberg: it is not a huge issue for me
17:29:44 [WileyS]
Nothing from me
17:29:47 [aleecia]
q?
17:29:49 [npdoty]
s/dwainberg/BrendanIAB/
17:29:51 [dwainberg]
s/dwainberg:/Brendan/
17:29:53 [aleecia]
ack dawainberg
17:29:58 [Walter]
dwainberg: two things on this
17:30:04 [Walter]
... there is another option, silence
17:30:06 [npdoty]
s/for me/for me, but for people not on the call today/
17:30:13 [Walter]
... second I recently opened a thread
17:30:20 [Walter]
... on ideas of limiting the set of tokens
17:30:32 [Walter]
... folks may change their minds depending on the outcome of that discussion
17:30:39 [Walter]
... would like to give it another week or two for that
17:30:55 [Zakim]
-hefferjr
17:31:09 [WileyS]
I don't see #2 as silence - if anything its just the opposite
17:31:33 [WileyS]
#3 is closer to "silence" as it doesn't drive an obligation
17:31:39 [Walter]
dwainberg: I think we should give it some time
17:31:40 [npdoty]
I think Aleecia is saying that with #2 tl wouldn't be proposing additional text, with the justification that it is unnecessary
17:32:04 [rigo]
q+
17:32:09 [npdoty]
it's always possible that text will change
17:32:10 [Chris_IAB]
FYI- anyone trying to reach me or Brendan, please note that IAB email servers are down due to Manhattan power outage (due to Hurricane Sandy). Unfortunately, we don't have an ETA from the power company for restoration of service. Sorry for any inconvenience and spamming you all here.
17:32:10 [Walter]
dwainberg: it is possible that the text will change
17:32:20 [Walter]
aleecia: at which point do you think it will be finalised
17:32:32 [rigo]
ack dwainberg
17:32:40 [Walter]
dwainberg: I believe it was an action time that came out of the Amsterdam meeting
17:32:47 [aleecia]
ack rigo
17:32:49 [Walter]
dwainberg: ideally I would give it two weeks to see what happens
17:32:50 [rigo]
ack Rhone_3
17:33:09 [Walter]
rigo: maybe there is a real legal question here
17:33:13 [aleecia]
here's what I'm hearing:
17:33:14 [Walter]
... raised by Ed Felten
17:33:18 [npdoty]
if we have reached the point where additional discussion isn't at the point of moving any of the participants away from existing positions, then going through the decision process is useful, even if ultimately we refine the proposal we go forward with
17:33:19 [aleecia]
- add option 4, utter silence
17:33:38 [aleecia]
- wait one week for people to have power on, which will also give time for David W's discussion
17:33:52 [fielding]
dwainberg was referring to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2012Oct/0611.html
17:33:59 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
17:34:09 [Walter]
... whether it would be acceptable that a technical signal would signal compliance
17:34:25 [aleecia]
barring surprises, we move into final texts to be sure we agree upon, starting 1 week from now, ending 2 days later. "surprises" means something unexpected in the email thread
17:34:26 [Walter]
... when it doesn't work we have to discuss this further
17:34:34 [rigo]
zakim, mute Rhone_3
17:34:34 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 should now be muted
17:35:01 [Walter]
aleecia: what we are looking at is a fourth option of just silence
17:35:35 [johnsimpson]
Can you please resend the email with the 4th option listed.
17:35:37 [Walter]
... we have now four options to move through the process after the token discussion
17:36:02 [Walter]
dwainberg: I wonder when you will update us on the anticipated timeline
17:36:10 [Zakim]
-jeffwilson
17:36:11 [Zakim]
-johnsimpson
17:36:11 [Zakim]
-BrendanIAB?
17:36:12 [npdoty]
ack Rhone_3
17:36:14 [Zakim]
-AnnaLong
17:36:15 [Zakim]
-aleecia
17:36:15 [Zakim]
-Joanne
17:36:15 [Zakim]
-Brooks
17:36:15 [johnsimpson]
johnsimpson has left #dnt
17:36:16 [Zakim]
- +aahh
17:36:16 [Zakim]
-PeterK
17:36:16 [Walter]
session adjourned
17:36:17 [Zakim]
-suegl
17:36:17 [Zakim]
-vincent
17:36:19 [npdoty]
Zakim, drop Rhone_3
17:36:19 [Zakim]
-David_McMillan
17:36:19 [Zakim]
-jchester2
17:36:19 [Zakim]
Rhone_3 is being disconnected
17:36:20 [Zakim]
-Rhone_3
17:36:20 [Zakim]
-WileyS
17:36:22 [Zakim]
-moneill2
17:36:23 [Zakim]
-Walter
17:36:24 [Zakim]
-ninjamarnau
17:36:24 [Zakim]
-fielding
17:36:25 [Zakim]
-BerinSzoka
17:36:25 [Zakim]
-Chris_IAB?
17:36:35 [Zakim]
-dsriedel
17:36:37 [Zakim]
-[Google]
17:36:41 [Zakim]
-dwainberg
17:37:02 [fielding]
zakim, list attendees
17:37:02 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.408.674.aaaa, David_McMillan, schunter, npdoty, dsinger, rigo, hober, fwagner, adrianba, +1.703.265.aabb, BrendanIAB?, jeffwilson,
17:37:05 [Zakim]
... +1.310.392.aacc, +1.206.658.aadd, johnsimpson, moneill2, +49.431.98.aaee, ninjamarnau, +1.202.331.aaff, amyc, +1.415.520.aagg, +aahh, Joanne, jchester2, +1.425.269.aaii,
17:37:05 [Zakim]
... Chris_IAB?, suegl, Walter, +1.609.865.aajj, ifette, vincent, efelten, +1.415.728.aakk, vinay, aleecia, dwainberg, PeterK, [Microsoft], +1.917.934.aall, Jonathan_Mayer,
17:37:10 [Zakim]
... +1.678.580.aamm, +1.917.318.aann, +1.813.366.aaoo, hefferjr, +1.714.852.aapp, fielding, Chris_Pedigo, +1.202.642.aaqq, AnnaLong, +1.202.643.aarr, tlr, susanisrael, Brooks,
17:37:10 [Zakim]
... BerinSzoka, hwest, +1.858.229.aass, +49.721.83.aatt, dsriedel, WileyS
17:38:28 [npdoty]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:38:33 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:38:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-dnt-minutes.html npdoty
17:39:36 [npdoty]
rrsagent, bye
17:39:36 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-dnt-actions.rdf :
17:39:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: rigo to send a reminder about http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking-international/ [1]
17:39:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-dnt-irc#T17-19-28
17:39:37 [npdoty]
Zakim, bye
17:39:38 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.408.674.aaaa, David_McMillan, schunter, npdoty, dsinger, rigo, hober, fwagner, adrianba, +1.703.265.aabb, BrendanIAB?, jeffwilson,
17:39:38 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dnt
17:39:40 [Zakim]
... +1.310.392.aacc, +1.206.658.aadd, johnsimpson, moneill2, +49.431.98.aaee, ninjamarnau, +1.202.331.aaff, amyc, +1.415.520.aagg, +aahh, Joanne, jchester2, +1.425.269.aaii,
17:39:41 [Zakim]
... Chris_IAB?, suegl, Walter, +1.609.865.aajj, ifette, vincent, efelten, +1.415.728.aakk, vinay, aleecia, dwainberg, PeterK, [Microsoft], +1.917.934.aall, Jonathan_Mayer,