12:31:53 RRSAgent has joined #digitalm 12:31:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-digitalm-irc 12:32:10 Zakim has joined #digitalm 12:32:38 Meeting: Digital Marketing Breakout 12:32:45 Chair: Karen Myers 12:33:11 gwestneat has joined #digitalm 12:33:12 evanlee has joined #digitalm 12:33:26 gmandyam has joined #digitalm 12:34:03 scribe: Alan 12:34:17 leehom has joined #digitalm 12:34:34 Karen: Welcome to the session. One of the industries we looked at was Digital Marketing. We formed a Task Force of some of my associates. 12:34:46 Giri: Introduces self and QIC 12:35:08 DavidE: Introduces self and Natl Conv Stores 12:35:28 Chair+ Carl Cargill 12:36:04 DavidE: Part of this is about outreach, all those people who care about the Web and don't know how much they do 12:36:15 Carl: Introduces self and Adobe 12:36:29 Karen: Points to list of attendees 12:37:29 [go around the table and introduce themselves] 12:38:48 Karen: Good to hear where you are coming from. We're going through a short presentation to set context. Then discussion. 12:39:01 [Why Digital Marketing at W3C] 12:39:41 [Digital Marketing slide] 12:39:55 [Digital Marketing Mix] 12:39:59 chong has joined #digitalm 12:40:41 [Current W3C Work Relevant to Marketers] 12:41:55 [Immediate Opportunity for W3C to Lay Foundation] 12:42:22 [Potential Areas of Standardization 1] 12:42:41 [Potential Areas of Standardization 2] 12:43:01 [Potential Areas of Standardization 3] 12:43:15 [Potential Areas of Standardization 4] 12:43:35 Karen: Current analytic and measurements are proprietary formats. 12:43:54 Carl: Also is there a standard way to track or even quatify / definie tracking now. 12:44:15 ...The definitions are not universal yet. The terms are all reasonably non-standard. 12:44:39 [Potential Areas of Standardization 5] 12:44:49 [Potential Scope of Workshops] 12:44:57 [Proposal for Workshops] 12:45:08 [Current Challenges] 12:45:30 Karen: These assumptions led us to talking to the broader eco-system. 12:45:41 ...That's what we've been doing since July. 12:45:59 [very busy slide of ecosystem] 12:46:17 [Start Conversations with Marketing Community] 12:46:38 [Digital Marketing Agencies] 12:46:58 Karen: The DMAs, unless they were geeky, were kind of clueless. 12:47:07 dbaron has joined #digitalm 12:47:10 ...Didn't know about W3C or why we were there. 12:47:21 ...We're only doing native apps for our brands. 12:47:22 dbaron has left #digitalm 12:47:40 [Media Agency Pain Points] 12:47:51 tpacbot has joined #digitalm 12:47:52 leehom has joined #digitalm 12:47:56 Karen: These represent the thinking of some agencies and what their painpoints are. 12:48:19 Carl: The important point is that the four major groups are in this conversation. 12:48:46 ...This structure has existed from the 1920's and is why they have the power they do. 12:48:53 tpacbot has joined #digitalm 12:49:05 ...The 'Madison Avenue' model. This is how they do advertising. 12:49:22 [Creative Agency Pain Points] 12:49:54 [Marketing Associations] 12:50:10 Karen: They have told us to stay away, they don't need us, etc. 12:50:25 ...Some of this we expected due to W3C work on DNT. 12:50:35 ...Others are stuck in old-world model. 12:50:44 [Brand Marketers] 12:51:00 Karen: This group is moving to multiple media. 12:51:14 ...They want to reduce their cost. Write once and appear everywhere. 12:51:33 ...They are feeling the pain in the time delay and cost delay in not having a standard approach. 12:51:43 [Client Pain Points] 12:52:15 [Publishers, Media Owners] 12:52:38 Karen: This group is having problems with workflow and the information everyone puts on their site. 12:52:44 ...Who owns the data? 12:52:57 [Where do we go from here discussion?] 12:53:23 Karen: We need to engage in conversations with people who understand this and want to enhance their business with it. 12:53:41 Carl: If you look at the diagram with pain points they all look at current business models. 12:53:52 ...The Web may end up getting rid of some of those layers. 12:54:11 ...There historically has been that there is no communication between the groups. 12:54:20 ...But the media is not that distinct any more. 12:54:32 ...So the question is how does the Web fit in this? 12:54:55 ...How do we flip the switch from being seen as a threat to see how we add value to make it better. 12:55:47 Giri: slide 21. Part of my experience at QIC is that some of the technologies we needed weren't there and we had to build them from scratch. 12:56:03 ...It was proprietary and everyone had their own implementations. 12:56:19 ...I think there is meat for some sort of standardization there. 12:56:42 DavidE: As a representative of some of the Brands, I'm both their representative and their antagonist. 12:56:57 ...I show up and show them whey they should worry about some of these problems. 12:57:15 ...Having a standard and consistent way to deliver across the platforms for the brand. 12:57:24 ...W3C has a different way of looking at things. 12:57:55 ...Using WAI as a touchpoint, we want to make sure the tools we provide make it easy to implement accessibility to lower the hurdles to entry. 12:58:32 ...Consistency is a key part of implementation. The Web solves this better than any proprietary implementation. 12:58:45 ...Their is a lot of buyers and suppliers. 12:59:00 ...These systems have sold for about $4K per system. 12:59:15 ...The ROI is way to big to swallow. 12:59:28 ...How they get around it is to come to the advertising budget. 12:59:50 ..Some have started giving the technology away because of the revenue they make from this. 13:00:12 ...I think we need to get in front of this because we can't allow proprietary systems to hit. 13:00:23 ...You have to make sure you hit the brain of the consumer. 13:00:33 ...We can help brands assure they get there. 13:01:10 DavidE: Privacy is a prickly subject. A lot of affinity analysis shows what was bought by what. Not the who. 13:01:20 ...The stakes in this are high. 13:01:38 ...The play for W3C is to be nearby Switzerland to say here are the standards. 13:01:58 ...And accessibility to all this media is a message to all these brands. 13:02:13 ...Put in that prospective we have a unique value to offer. 13:02:44 [gives example of spend in Las Vegas] 13:03:14 SteveH: Introduces himself and roles at W3C 13:03:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-digitalm-minutes.html Alan 13:03:33 Carl: The whole digital marketing issue. 13:03:47 SteveH_ has joined #digitalm 13:03:48 ...Adobe is heavy in analytics and it's a proprietary world now. 13:04:10 ...What we don't have a clear grasp of is where the analytics is going in the next 5 years. 13:04:17 ...Big Data, and privacy. 13:04:32 ...How do you capture it, use it and what can you do about it. 13:04:47 ...W3C is in the middle of this wether they want to be or not. 13:05:04 ...It's going to be highly explosive in next 5 years. 13:05:16 Carl: Then there is the creative aspects. 13:05:36 ...They are being pushed by the number of platforms, etc. they can support and still be valid. 13:05:46 ...Have been standardizing on pixels. 13:06:08 ...Standardizing form factors is hardware, not software. 13:06:20 ...The Web is about software standardization. 13:06:31 ...Much of the pain is in software and mutations. 13:06:45 ...A problem between infinite cost and infinite market. 13:06:58 ...We don't have, or know of, a matchpoint. 13:07:07 Karen: So we want to open this for discussion. 13:07:35 Greg: From my prospective, we see a delima between the privacy issue and standardization. 13:07:55 ...An intersection may not be best for advertizers. 13:08:27 @@@: I saw advertising in the web as the benefit of most of the companies. 13:08:52 ...In this model, the Web, it's for most companies benefit. 13:09:24 ...I don't think this model is very esy to follow. 13:09:49 BernardO: I agree that one very important point is BigData. 13:10:03 ...There is the ability to extract data and have a more focused advertising. 13:10:21 ...There are new technologies, we need to have a balance between DNT and Privacy. 13:10:33 ...We have a very big increase in advertising by video. 13:10:50 ...It is a most attractive market but there are many problems. 13:11:28 ...We have to work with videos on how to involve advertising. 13:11:39 ...It will be reinforced by arrival of SmartTV. 13:12:00 ...One of the business models is to make money on ads of the TV. 13:12:17 Carl: If you look at the static model we currently have is there are no feedback loops. 13:12:25 ...That's the beauty of the Web. 13:12:47 ...Advertisers want the immediate feedback, but it's now illegal because it's a privacy issue. 13:13:05 ...This overlaps with DNT issues. What does tracking really mean? 13:13:20 ...Issue with BigData is do you really have privacy. 13:13:39 ...Does aggregated data have the same privacy issues as personal data. 13:13:53 ...Remove a couple of layers and people have quicker feedback. 13:14:08 ...But to get there it's massively disruptive to the current models. 13:14:19 ...It's a multi-billion dollar industry. 13:14:35 Karen: Someone said "when we need your skills we'll call you" 13:14:42 q+ 13:14:56 BernardO: We need identify market leaders / innovators to lead this. 13:15:20 SteveH: IBM agrees this is a huge area. Lots of companies making lots of money. 13:15:34 ...One thing we realize is you can't go in and disrupt this. 13:15:53 ...We believe there are tiny steps that will help all sides deal with this in an organized fashion. 13:16:03 ...We did a member submission on data acquisition. 13:16:19 ...It's about having a standard approach to java objects on these servers. 13:16:40 ...It allows analytics to proprietary but standardizeds the data gathering. 13:16:52 http://www.w3.org/community/groups/proposed/#custexpdata 13:16:54 ...We're proposing a new CG to be formed. 13:17:16 ...It's called Customer Experience Digital Data. 13:17:24 ...It's a way to get started quickly. 13:17:36 ...And allows non-W3C members to participate. 13:17:50 ...We'd like to get it going and make it more acceptable. 13:18:08 ...Have a standard that moves into the Rec track if appropriate. 13:18:22 ...A way of getting more eyeballs on it to fine tune it. 13:18:34 ...We have two additional drafts in this space. 13:18:49 ...It could result in bringing some of the people the table that aren't here today. 13:19:41 Carl: The issue though is that the center of this is, what DNT is finding out, what the nature of data is. 13:19:43 link to IBM Member Submission "Customer Experience Digital Data Acquisition" specification: http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/04/ 13:20:00 ...How private is the data. Who's data is it? That's the crux of the matter. 13:20:15 ...That's a statement that says when data comes in, it comes in this way. 13:20:28 ...I thought it was a good approach. 13:20:44 SteveH: It's a way of taking a step in this direction. 13:21:07 ...It lifts the platform up to say let's compete on the analysis, not the collection. 13:21:27 DavidE: The word we're talking about is transparency. 13:21:47 ...If someone joins from a defensive position, that's OK. 13:21:56 ...W3C should not get into policy. 13:22:19 Carl: DNT does not express a policy, it's a standard. How it can be used sets a policy. 13:22:40 DavidE: The sentence expresses a policy "Do Not Track". 13:23:08 ...As Regan said "Trust but veryify" in this case it's "Track but verify". 13:23:34 Karen: Time check. Was hoping we could come to some consensus or not. 13:23:54 ...Steve mentioned the CG, but should we think of forming a CG for the interoperabilty side. 13:24:16 ...Do we continue to pursue the original goals of a Workshop. 13:24:37 ...Do we go to existing work and ask them to form an advertising component. 13:26:28 SteveH: Would it be worth tying into DNT and Beyond to get input. 13:26:51 Carl: I think DNT Is poison. We're finding out the brands are getting fed up with the situation. 13:27:05 ...This is the only chance everyone has to play to get a good solution. 13:27:24 ...Anyone who chooses not to play does so at their own risk. 13:27:52 ...I think a solution will come of this, and without cooperation it will be highly disruptive. 13:28:15 DavidE: I think the Workshop approach is good. We have to find ways to get the right people there. 13:28:25 [adjourned] 13:28:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:28:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-digitalm-minutes.html Alan 13:28:52 rrsagent, set log public 13:28:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:28:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-digitalm-minutes.html Alan 13:29:16 Alan has left #digitalm 13:33:19 SteveH_ has joined #digitalm 15:16:35 SteveH_ has joined #digitalm 15:24:59 Zakim has left #digitalm 15:56:49 SteveH__ has joined #digitalm 16:00:22 SteveH__ has left #digitalm 17:21:23 tpacbot has joined #digitalm