Stereoscope/3D Web

31 Oct 2012

See also: IRC log


Dong-Young_Lee, Cheng_Gu, Jens_Bachmann, Yoshiharu_Dema, George_Kakatsakis, Giles_Godam-Brown, Michael_Champion, Stefan_Hahansson, Cyril_Concolato, Jari_Alvinen, Sangwhan_Moon, Ryoichi_Kawada


<Cyril> http://svgopen.org/2010/papers/54-SVG_Extensions_for_3D_displays/

<scribe> Scribenick: sangwhan

DL: These are slides I presented in web and tv ig

… many high end TVs currently in the market have 3d capabilities, also monitors

… laptops and phones, and also cameras which can be used to take stereoscopic pictures

… the problem is that on the content side it is quite limited because there is no standard

… there isn't any online content that uses it

… for online services that provide stereoscopic video, the UX can be enhanced by having a standard

… there are also native games that utilize stereoscopic displays

… it would be nice to have this at the point there are glassless 3D displays

… it takes a fair amount of time to standardize, so we should start thinking about this

… we need to identify the usecases

… for the first step we should think about how to display 3D images and videos

… we might be able to utilize CSS 3D transforms

… and WebGL and SVG

… I will talk more about CSS3D later

… additionally for authors to easily develop 3D content, the 3D content should gracefully degrade on 2D displays

… that's all for the presentation

Cyril Concolato speaking about a proposal for a SVG extension for 3D content

CC: The proposal defines how to place SVG content based on a depth

… there is depth-viewbox, depth-offset to do this defined in the proposal

… you can also use a filter effect called depth component

… the main usecase is for mobile stereoscopic displays, for example in maps

… this is implemented in gpac

GK: So there seem two usecases - videos and web content

<Cyril> http://svgopen.org/2010/papers/54-SVG_Extensions_for_3D_displays/

… can you leverage work that has been done work that has been done in the broadcasting industry?

DL: I don't think so

CC: In our case we are just extending vector graphics with 3D depth information

GK: So are you trying to solve both problems?

DL: We're first focusing on video/images
... When implementing, the image decoder might be able to detect if the image is stereoscopic or not

… of course this is just a possibility

… for HTML content, web content consists of multiple block elements

… so you can place the depth of the content using this mechanism

GK: Currently the content is flat, and there is no depth - so what would you have to do to give a z-index?

… z-index being depth of the block element in this case

DL: A cover flow like example could be one possibility to explain this

GK: Would it be a usecase for GUI elements to be steroscopic?

GG: That could be quite disastrous

DL: I agree

GG: We also have to think about subtitles

… there has been prior work regarding this, about placement of objects within 3D video

SH: If you have content in 2D and 3D, would the device be aware of how to display it?

DL: No work has been done, but it should

GK: There was a issue with HDMI overlooking this, so this should be addressed

DL: If there is a 3D image embedded in web content, the authors should also consider graceful degradation

… which is a similar issue to responsive images

… so in case the user agent is not capable of 3D it should display 2D

DL explaining diagram http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transforms/perspective_origin.png in a stereoscopic context

DL: We can modify the existing implementation inside user agents to draw for both the left and right eye separately, so it probably is not that complicated

SH: Is there any official group work being done on this?

DL: I proposed it in Web and TV, but nothing official as for now

… there is a possibility of setting up a small WG for this

RK: We had discussions about setting up a TF for this

DL: Yes

GK: We should probably look at what the gaming companies have already done

<pal> pal = Pierre Lemieux

PL: If you describe a object in 3D, how would you define where the base of zero disparity is?

DL: That would be the screen

<pal> PL: if zero disparity corresponds to CSS3 coordinate z = 0, it should be explicitly specified

<pal> PL: video content is authored with zero disparity corresponding to the screen

JB: I don't think this enough to cover all the usecases

… if you want something that true 3D for HTML content, just using CSS 3D transforms might not be enough and you should talk with the HTML WG

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012/10/31 10:58:25 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/a maps/maps/
Succeeded: s/The specification defines/The proposal defines/
Found ScribeNick: sangwhan
Inferring Scribes: sangwhan

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

Present: Dong-Young_Lee Cheng_Gu Jens_Bachmann Yoshiharu_Dema George_Kakatsakis Giles_Godam-Brown Michael_Champion Stefan_Hahansson Cyril_Concolato Jari_Alvinen Sangwhan_Moon Ryoichi_Kawada
Got date from IRC log name: 31 Oct 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-3dweb-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]