07:37:43 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 07:37:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/29-webtv-irc 07:37:50 leetv2 has joined #webtv 07:37:51 Scribe: Matt 07:37:55 Topic: Introduction 07:38:06 kenji has joined #webtv 07:38:19 giuseppe: We're going to do a quick welcome, and then work on building an agenda until 9:30. 07:38:19 giuseppe has joined #webtv 07:38:23 Yanagiuchi has joined #webtv 07:38:26 kaz has joined #webtv 07:38:29 shoko has joined #webtv 07:38:38 kawakami has joined #webtv 07:38:45 scribe: Kaz 07:38:51 scribenick: kaz 07:38:56 topic: Introduction session 07:39:01 giuseppe: From 9:30-10:30, we'll go through the list of topics, and allow proponents to discuss them and figure out who might be interested in a TF. 07:39:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:39:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/29-webtv-minutes.html matt 07:39:15 ot has joined #webtv 07:39:26 scribe: Matt 07:39:30 scribenick: Matt 07:39:53 giuseppe: (reviews agenda thus far) 07:40:37 Mark_Vickers: This is a peculiarity of the W3C -- each charter has an end date, you can extend continuing what you do, or have a new charter, or end. 07:41:07 leetv has joined #webtv 07:41:10 Masahito: We have to reach consensus on rechartering. 07:41:10 Masahito: No objection? None. Great. 07:42:02 Juhani has joined #webtv 07:42:10 hbang has joined #webtv 07:42:17 sburr has joined #webtv 07:42:32 Dong-Young_Lee has joined #webtv 07:42:44 Kiyoshi has joined #webtv 07:42:45 csmithpeters has joined #webtv 07:42:47 Dewa has joined #webtv 07:42:51 Shigeo has joined #webtv 07:42:51 slejeune has joined #webtv 07:42:51 SN has joined #webtv 07:42:56 Topic: Web and TV IG Overview 07:43:01 giles has joined #WEBTV 07:43:08 sato has joined #webtv 07:43:25 jens has joined #webtv 07:43:28 fwatanabe has joined #webtv 07:43:55 giuseppe: Created in December 2010 as an outcome of a workshop on Web and TV in Tokyo. Several use cases discussed, with an agreement to create an IG. It would identify requirements from the TV industry for standards, improve cooperation between TV industry and the Web community, and give a informal forum for brainstorming. 07:43:57 SN has left #webtv 07:44:09 tokamoto_ has joined #webtv 07:44:14 yoshi has joined #webtv 07:44:32 giuseppe: An IG is different than a WG. An IG doesn't create formal technical specifications. The goal is to focus on requirements/input for other WGs, or to create new WGs. 07:44:39 sheau has joined #webtv 07:44:39 kinji-matsumura has joined #webtv 07:44:46 giuseppe: We've mainly used the wiki and some teleconferences. 07:44:51 kunio has joined #webtv 07:45:06 giuseppe: The mailing list is the usual mode of communication, if there is sufficient interest in a topic we may create a Task Force. 07:45:07 phutchins has joined #webtv 07:45:39 giuseppe: The focus has been on use cases and requirements for future standardization work. We've looked at gaps in the existing Web Platform -- what is it you cannot do with the existing Web Platform? 07:45:48 jiro has joined #webtv 07:46:00 kaz has left #webtv 07:46:07 kaz has joined #webtv 07:46:31 store and access a lot of content locally, for one... is not yet possible 07:46:34 Veronica has joined #webtv 07:46:42 giuseppe: We've had two task forces that have concluded their work. 1. The Home Network TF. That TF focused on gaps in discovery and control of devices and services in the local network. After 3-4 months the group created a Note of use cases and requirements. 07:47:00 sungok_You has joined #webtv 07:47:23 Ethan has joined #webtv 07:47:31 giuseppe: We thought the Device API's WG would cover our requirements. They've got a proposal for service discovery. Another was the Web Intents Addendum. 07:47:48 present+ Bryan_Sullivan 07:47:53 tomoyuki has joined #webtv 07:48:04 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'who is here' 07:48:25 kotakagi has joined #webtv 07:48:41 giuseppe: The Media Pipeline TF goal was to discuss requirements on HTML5 video/audio/media interfaces. Also had weekly calls and emails. The output was requirements for adaptive bit-rate control n script, and content protection. This work went into the HTML 5 media TF. 07:48:43 Zakim has joined #webtv 07:49:52 Mark_Vickers: Both of the TF had their use cases and requirements adopted by the WGs. We filed bug reports, and got things changed: e.g. multi-stream data. We had a lot of new bugs put in and a lot were new issues for the HTML 5 folks. 07:50:08 Mark_Vickers: We also had some work done on remote key support. That was added into the DOM3 Events Spec. 07:50:18 Mark_Vickers: We had very good support from HTML5 and WebApps. 07:50:48 giuseppe: We've had good success, getting in touch with other parts of W3C and getting them to understand our requirements. 07:51:09 giuseppe: That's it for my overview. 07:51:44 ph: I'm Philipp Hoshcka, I manage the domain that the Web and TV IG is a part of. I'd like to congratulate the IG on it's achievements and I look forward to your future successes. This is one of the most successful IG's we've had at W3C. 07:52:13 Mark_Vickers: We did a good thing by focusing on requirements. We took a back seat on the actual implementation as long as our requirements were met. 07:52:22 hitoshi has joined #webtv 07:52:53 Oliva_Akamai has joined #webtv 07:52:55 giuseppe: There's a reason why this isn't a WG. We wanted to avoid creating silos within the Open Web Platform, as it should work across platforms. 07:53:40 Mark_Vickers: When we talked about the TV profile, and then changed it into a Media profile -- this is really more of a media IG than a TV IG. For example our movies group has the same issues and requirements, but they're not TV per se. The common theme has been media. 07:53:50 giuseppe: There have been some things specific to TV -- 07:53:55 Mark_Vickers: Like television remote 07:54:06 giuseppe: Yes, and in those cases it does make sense to be specific. 07:54:15 Topic: Agenda Building 07:54:17 Youngsun has joined #webtv 07:54:29 giuseppe: So far, we've had a few topics suggested. 07:54:44 giuseppe: The first is testing, we'll do some short presentations, but the discussion is important. 07:54:58 giuseppe: Then an API for low level access to TV functionality. 07:55:08 giuseppe: Relationship between @@ 07:55:21 giuseppe: Exposing Broadcast metadata to the Web. 07:55:36 giuseppe: TV profiling has been on hold, we'll figure out if we want to continue that. 07:55:44 giuseppe: A followup on the Home Network TF 07:56:04 giuseppe: Then a presentation on 3D Web from LG. 07:56:16 giuseppe: We received a liaison letter from ITU. 07:56:30 giuseppe: And in the afternoon we have a joint session with the Broadcast BG. 07:56:35 naomi has joined #webtv 07:56:39 giuseppe: Are there any other topics that we want to add to the agenda? 07:57:19 giuseppe: I had some topics too that we had from previous F2Fs. Social TV, Accessibility, Parental Control and BPs for content developers. 07:57:34 robin has joined #webtv 07:57:41 This is bryan, I am in the Webapps meeting right now. I would like to add offline storage on local filesystems to the agenda - where are we with the File* APIs, what more do we need? 07:57:49 Would vote +1 on Accessibility, although I suspect it runs through a lot of the other topics 07:58:08 shau: When we talk about Web vs TV content, and talk about hybrid content. 07:58:38 yosuke: Integerating with MMT for multiple streams. 07:59:23 sheau: I thought MMT was more in the context of combining these and providing to the browser, while I was interested in combining them in the browser. If I could have time, I'd like five minutes of discussion. 07:59:28 s/shau/sheau/ 08:00:22 Guiseppe, just so you capture that as a proposed agenda item (offline storage), including quota and IndexedDB use for offline content storage. 08:00:34 thx 08:00:47 Mark_Vickers: On parental control, it reminds me of an issue on TV services in general where parental control is an issue. There's a hole in the specs that need to be filled. 08:01:08 Mark_Vickers: Just call it "TV services" 08:01:51 giuseppe: The group is always open. The TFs focus on specific things, while the IG itself is open to anything. 08:02:10 ot has joined #webtv 08:02:39 kaz: We have several new members and observers and I was wondering about the possibility of these new people who might have new issues. 08:03:15 Jens: From ?? 08:03:37 s/??/Panasonic/ 08:03:53 jcverdie has joined #webtv 08:06:27 ??: Integrating DNB and the Web. 08:06:47 s/DNB/DMB/ 08:06:48 ??: If there are too many users the streaming does not work. 08:07:17 Mark_Vickers: Definitely interesting topic. 08:07:39 hyun has joined #webtv 08:07:51 sheau: Switching, you need to think about when you're streaming one to one 30,000 people watching one program, you want to switch it. 08:08:05 masahito: Let's add this to synchronization. 08:10:07 Shinji has joined #webtv 08:11:35 ??: From Ministry of Communications Japan: there are so many topics, should we allocate approximate times? 08:11:46 giuseppe: We'll have approximately half an hour for each. 08:12:17 giuseppe: Or maybe 20 minutes each after adding the new topics. 08:12:27 s/??/Shigeo Okamoto/ 08:13:26 Jesus: I'm interested in new protocols and streaming features. We're sure to use the media streaming extensions. 08:15:16 Topic: Testing 08:15:18 Veronica has joined #webtv 08:15:31 jcverdie has joined #webtv 08:15:58 Mark_Vickers: Web and TV Testing TF 08:16:06 Mark_Vickers: What does testing have to do with the Web and TV IG? 08:16:22 robin has joined #webtv 08:16:34 Mark_Vickers: Coming from requirements and use cases: 1 main use case involving testing: verifying spec development. It's a distributed process, each group decides the scope and extent of testing. 08:17:11 Mark_Vickers: I don't think any change should be done to testing the spec development. What I want to talk about is, is it of interest in taking on additional roles of testing beyond that in spec development. 08:17:50 Mark_Vickers: One new area would be testing to improve the consistency of the Web Platform. Any developer knows there's an overhead cost for inconsistencies. That's a cost that's borne by everyone over time. 08:18:08 Mark_Vickers: Does W3C want to take on more tests with the goal of improving the consistency of the Web Platform? 08:18:47 Mark_Vickers: Particularly there are things done outside the browser in plugins for instance. Now that the media is closer to the browser itself we get cross browser compatibility issues. 08:19:32 Jun_Liao_CU has joined #webtv 08:19:33 Mark_Vickers: Then we could also support other external testing and certification groups. These others have developed tests, they've actually developed different semantics. This should be done within the W3C, because this is where the Web is defined. 08:19:46 Mark_Vickers: I don't think W3C should be involved in certification, just getting hooked in with these groups. 08:20:09 Alan has joined #webtv 08:20:09 Mark_Vickers: Mobile device groups have been working on testing across devices, and we have the same concern for devices. 08:20:21 Mark_Vickers: We need more test coverage and set some priorities. 08:21:08 Mark_Vickers: We need requirements for a central test runner. Requirements for devices too. And then we also need to work with other groups doing W3C testing. the mobile groups (core-mob), broadcasting, etc. 08:21:33 Mark_Vickers: There's potentially a million different tests for the mobile platform. We should look at tools, e.g. Modernizr, figure out what those tools do to solve cross platform issues and fix those issues. 08:21:49 Mark_Vickers: We could develop surveys to find major issues. We could have workshops too. 08:21:53 kaz has joined #webtv 08:22:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/29-webtv-minutes.html kaz 08:22:24 Mark_Vickers: As to a central test running, we need one URL as a home to all the tests, with one click to run. 08:22:54 Mark_Vickers: Clear results summarizing top level pass/fail results. Configuration options for the tester. And also detailed results. 08:23:04 Mark_Vickers: The WebGL conformance test suite is a good example. 08:23:14 noriya has joined #webtv 08:23:44 Mark_Vickers: In the WebGL test suite, you can turn on and off individual features, configure it dynamically or have a file of configuration properties, etc. 08:23:46 https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/sdk/tests/webgl-conformance-tests.html 08:23:53 (webgl conformance test suite) 08:23:59 Mark_Vickers: We could essentially do this but for W3C. Still have the groups do what they're doing, but wrap it in this. 08:24:00 Ruinan has joined #webtv 08:24:32 Mark_Vickers: As to requirements for devices, we need to be able to do remote testing. 08:24:35 jeff has joined #webtv 08:25:05 Mark_Vickers: Do we think these are new roles we should be taking on? Comcast is willing to put money towards this. I think this would be of value to all of us and cut expenses. 08:25:28 giles?: We are quite used to this sort of thing for television. 08:25:35 Mark_Vickers: What is the plan in the UK? 08:25:56 giles?: The ?? group is developing tests. These are more about getting a badge than this large group. 08:26:05 Craig?: Is this testing for HTML 5? 08:26:08 giles?: Yes it is. 08:26:09 yosuke has joined #webtv 08:26:24 Mark_Vickers: I've been discouraging DLNA from creating their own HTML 5 tests, and instead have them create tests for W3C. 08:26:37 sakih has joined #webtv 08:26:46 s/giles?/giles/g 08:26:54 s/Craig?/Craig/g 08:27:21 giuseppe: There is value to central testing, since every group has to do this, or trying to do this already, there is a big value in sharing. 08:27:43 Craig: +1 to both of those sentiments. If you have a splintering of the test community that can end up changing the spec, or implementations in some ways. 08:27:47 jens has joined #webtv 08:28:07 jeff: All of the groups involved in testing have a similar desire to not reinvent the wheel. Others say whatever we do we should coordinate. 08:28:56 ??: Testing is very important, and there are lots of activities in W3C. In context of W3C, we need to first decide what to test. TV Profile? TV API? We need to clarify what we need to achieve in scope of TV. 08:29:09 s/??:/Dong-Young:/ 08:29:28 q+ 08:29:47 Mark_Vickers: In core-mob they've developed a mobile profile, similar to our media profile. I think we could combine those efforts to have two profiles to talk about, and they've been talking about how to test them. I bet the TV point of view will be the same as theirs. From my point of view a TV and a mobile device are all merging. 08:30:13 giuseppe: We can do these things in parallel too. We can pick specs that are more important than others. 08:30:19 CF has joined #webtv 08:30:20 q? 08:30:35 yosuke: Do you have any idea how to coordinate the groups? 08:31:06 Mark_Vickers: Our point of view is requirements. Other groups are developing tools, etc. 08:31:23 bryan: WRT adding things into the scope of core-mob, we're looking at finalizing our spec in 2012, 2013 starting soon. 08:31:56 bryan: We're assuming the things we're required would be adopted into the testing of other groups. We'd expect those leading things that are bugs in existing spec work to be brought into core-mob 2013. 08:32:25 giuseppe: The test suite for testing that the spec is correct may be separate from testing for devices for example. 08:32:40 q? 08:32:43 ack bryan 08:33:34 Mark_Vickers: For example HTML5 2014 has a number of tests for the spec and we shouldn't interfere with that stuff, but we can do things in parallel within the w3c. There's also the test the web forward effort, which are outside w3c and doing great work. I think w3c could raise funds and get tests done and improve the Web platform. 08:33:45 ph: I want to give an overview of what's happening at W3C around testing. 08:34:33 ph: There's work on the test framework from the Web Testing Interest Group. There's Test the Web Forward (w3c is a partner). The CoreMob CG is testing too. And there's the Browser Testing WG. 08:35:05 ph: So how do you know what is going on? There's a doc called "Standards for Web Applications on Mobile: current state and roadmap". 08:35:09 rrsagent, make log public 08:35:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:35:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/29-webtv-minutes.html kaz 08:35:30 ph: This lists many specs and is updated every few months or so. It has a test suite column for a certain area of functionality. 08:35:44 ph: That's a good place to start if you want to know what is going on in a certain area wrt testing. 08:36:28 ph: Then there is the test framework, which lists many of the test suites that exist. You can run them from the framework, it's very much like the WebGL tool, but we're just starting this effort. 08:37:02 ph: For example, here's the test suite for video. You can configure it and click on run, see it run and look at pass/fail results. 08:37:58 ph: You can see aggregated test results, see which browsers have run it, what the results were, and even the IP. 08:38:06 s/@@/MPEG MMT-CI and HTML5/ 08:38:29 ph: That's the "Test Framework", there are 3,500 tests integrated based on the requirements document that were developed. TV wasn't mentioned a lot, mobile was. 08:38:45 ph: There's the Web Testing IG working on testing too. 08:39:23 ph: W3C is partnered in Test the Web Forward. We've had one in San Francsico, Peking and Paris. We've had speakers from many across W3C. So far, not a lot of tests have been produced. That's the common theme: not enough test cases. 08:39:47 robin: The first one didn't produce many tests, the 2nd produced more, and the third produced 400 test cases. We're getting better at teaching people to write tests. 08:40:16 sakkuru_ has joined #webtv 08:40:23 ph: CoreMob Community Group was launched by Facebook at MWC 2012, to agree on core features that developers can depend upon. They also compile conformance suites. 08:40:45 ph: Very similar to what we're hearing from TV folks. They've got 280 participants signed up, but haven't delivered much yet. 08:41:10 ph: The Browser Testing and Tools WG is working on the "Web Driver" API, where you can automate testing by simulating user actions. 08:41:49 ph: Test meetings at TPAC, there's two breakout sessions: Test the Web Forward Recap and Future Planning, and Testing at W3C. 08:42:04 ph: There is also the Web Testing WG meeting Monday/Tuesday. 08:43:10 ph: If you look at the framework compared to the TV requirements that Mark put forward, I think we're close. One URL as a home is the intent. One click to run we have rudimentary support. Clear results, yes. Detailed results, yes. 08:43:43 ph: In summary: it's slow progress. Lots of discussion on tooling and perfected, but the tooling still is not great in my opinion. There's also a lack of actual tests. 08:43:59 ph: Not a lot of specs are marked with high coverage. 08:44:28 ph: So, what is the reason? Maybe it's not a good topic for a consensus driven organization like W3C groups. Too much hope on crowd sourcing? 08:44:40 ph: I'd suggest dedicated resources at W3C for tool building and test writing. 08:45:11 giueseppe: There is a lot going on. What can we do to coordinate? 08:45:33 Mark_Vickers: Part of what we need to do in the IG is analogous to what CoreMob has done for mobile. Maybe CoreTV? 08:45:44 Mark_Vickers: We've got a media profile group that we are going to talk about. 08:46:18 Mark_Vickers: Tool requirements there will be overlap. We do need to talk with other groups too. But importantly, I think we need to build these tools and it is going to take money to go after this. 08:46:30 Mark_Vickers: Crowd sourcing is great, but it's going to take coordination. 08:46:33 q+ Aaron 08:46:36 ack A 08:46:50 Aaron: Is there test authoring documents for how to write these tetsts? How I'm supposed to use this framework? 08:47:28 robin: There is some documentation on how to maintain a test, it's probably something we'll keep in flux as it's something we're not happy with yet. Probably the best way is to be in touch with the Web and Test WG. 08:47:50 q+ Okamoto 08:47:52 ack Oka 08:48:12 Okamoto: This is what W3C has already started doing, is it sufficient? 08:48:33 for testing how-to, see http://w3c.github.com/testing-how-to/#(1) 08:48:58 Mark_Vickers: The current goal of testing, supporting spec development, has a goal of one test for each feature, roughly. That's to prove out the feature to get the spec to completion. That is short of a thorough test that is more than just that an existing feature is there. 08:49:12 Mark_Vickers: The kind of tests that are developed during the spec process is the same, we just need more of them. 08:49:18 jens has joined #webtv 08:49:29 Okamoto: My understanding of your proposal is we need discussion about requirements of tests. 08:49:55 Mark_Vickers: Should we create a TF for writing test requirements for the TV area? 08:50:09 yosuke: We will do gap analysis between existing tests at W3C and TV? 08:50:11 Mark_Vickers: Yes. 08:50:30 giuseppe: And liase with other groups in W3C about this. 08:51:08 masahito: I think there has been support for this within the IG, unless there is explicit objection to it. If there is no opposition I think there is no harm to having a Task Force for this in our rechartering. 08:52:34 masahito: If I understand correctly, Philipp's presentation describes the status of testing within W3C. What we can do is look at this resource which we can use. 08:52:57 masahito: We can model after these, or take some ideas or collaborate with other groups in the interest of the IG. 08:53:16 giueseppe: There's interest, it would be good to have someone lead it. 08:53:31 Mark_Vickers: I'm happy to hold it for now, but we can see. 08:53:31 Mark++ 08:53:53 kotakagi has joined #webtv 08:53:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:53:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/29-webtv-minutes.html matt 08:54:15 Topic: Offline storage 08:54:35 bryan: I'll send a message to the list and drop it into the IRC. 08:54:38 Re my proposed agenda topic for File* and Indexed DB use for offline content storage: There is a proposal in Webapps to take the FileSystem API (http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/file-system/file-dir-sys.html) off REC track. But there is no alternate proposal or effort to develop an explicit Gallery API (this was dropped from DAP earlier when the FileSystem API was handed to Webapps, and gallery use cases expected to be implemented on top of them, e.g. with me[CUT] 08:54:42 Mark_Vickers has joined #webtv 08:55:11 bryan: Basically what I wanted to say was that for us there were three top gaps in the Web Platform for the Web and TV use cases. 08:55:22 etc). The ability to manage and access large amounts of locally stored content (local meaning on the device or in the local network) is key to enabling offline use cases. IMO this is one of the top 3 gaps in the current Web platform support for Web & TV (the other two are adaptive streaming and content protection). We either need to ensure that the File*/FileSystem APIs support these use cases, or that we have feasible support for network-local storage 08:55:24 bryan: Adaptive streaming and content protection are two of them. Offline storage was the third. 08:56:04 bryan: The file system API has been proposed to take off rec-track in WebApps. Other than the Gallery API in DAP, we don't have any way to manage local device storage. So, it is a gap still, and we need to figure out a way to close that. 08:56:11 Shigei has joined #webtv 08:56:19 jcdufourd has joined #webtv 08:56:44 Mark_Vickers: Use cases for this? 08:56:56 ...management/access from Web apps. Network-local in this case means something accessible via HTTP (even device-locally served) or abstracted e.g. through a Gallery Intent (e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-gallery-20120712/) which allows the storage of media as well as "picking" something to play. 08:57:02 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2012Oct/0008 Bryan's message about file system 08:57:14 bryan: If I want to download a video or manage a cache -- 08:57:19 But for local storage accessed directly through JavaScript APIs exposed by the Web browser/runtime (the preferred capability), we need either the earlier-envisioned functionality of the DAP FileSystem API, or Indexed DB APIs and storage support that supports in essence a high-performance/volume virtual filesystem managed by the browser. 08:57:31 ??: I can vouch for that use case. People want to download their news, and now it's not just text, but videos, etc. 08:57:36 Giles_Godart-Brown has joined #WEBTV 08:57:40 Mark_Vickers: We've got a use case for download and go for example. 08:57:46 oops 08:57:53 s/??/Olivier/ 08:58:29 bryan: I brought this up on WebApps when the FIle System API was proposed to take off rec-track, if we could find a way to access file system API in some way in IndexDB, that'd be ok, but is someone going to sign up to do that? 08:58:46 glenn has joined #webtv 08:59:13 giuseppe: If someone is going to implement such a thing... 08:59:45 Mark_Vickers: We could have download functionality, or record functionally, or play recording functionality requirements then other groups can decide whether it's a database or file system API. 09:00:04 bryan: I think one of the gaps that isn't being addressed is storage. 09:00:40 giueseppe: If there are people who have the time to work on it and want to explore it then we should. 09:00:46 Yukio has joined #webtv 09:00:46 Mark_Vickers: I would definitely work on the group. 09:01:06 Craig: Me too. 09:01:33 bryan: I'd be interested in driving this discussion about what is potentially available or how do we motivate existing work to be implemented, yes, I'd be interested in facilitating that. 09:01:41 giueseppe: The ML is always there, we can start there. 09:01:57 jiro has joined #webtv 09:02:09 Present+ Jean-Claude Dufourd 09:02:18 Mark_Vickers: I think if you take it from the point of view of "what do you need to download a recording? make a recording? play a recording?" those requirements are there. 09:02:28 giueseppe: Why is it being dropped? 09:02:32 Yukio has left #webtv 09:02:37 bryan: It's going to be discussed today at 4. 09:02:53 jeff: My impression is that it's not that local storage is unimportant just that the spec isn't there. 09:03:02 giueseppe: It's important to start from requirements. 09:03:39 Mark_Vickers: I'd like to look at the problem statement rather than solution statement. Recording, downloading and playing from download is the problem statement. 09:04:11 bryan: I agree, recording or caching, more or less the same thing. If behind that was a robust storage support, we'd be happy. 09:06:00 Mark_Vickers: I think it's important to define the APIs, I don't think this is something that would be required for a television. 09:06:27 masahito: We're not writing specs, we're just understanding requirements from the stakeholders. 09:06:42 Veronica has joined #webtv 09:06:42 marcin_hanclik has joined #webtv 09:06:45 giueseppe: Next steps: discuss on mailing list, see if there's a core group of people to discuss -- 09:06:53 masahito: Do we want this in the recharter? 09:07:03 Mark_Vickers: I think we should include everything we know we're going to do. 09:08:18 Topic: TV Channel API 09:08:39 Shigeo has joined #webtv 09:08:45 Veronica has left #webtv 09:08:57 Guen Hyung Kim: This presentation was written by me from Mobile Web Forum and Sung Hei Kim from ETRI. 09:09:42 Guen: We'll talk about use cases for convergence service. Why we should consider channel API. Then discuss some requirements. And then a proposal for channel and program information. 09:10:18 Guen: Convergence service, one example is when a user changes the channel, the broadcasting content and corresponding content/services should be displayed on the TV screen. 09:11:17 Guen: The user is on channel 5 with web related data around it, and then channel is then changed to 6, and the related information changes as well. 09:11:45 Guen: So should consider an API for controlling the channel. 09:12:21 Guen: The 2nd use case would be when the user is using convergence service, the user wants to change the view to full screen. We should consider how to manipulate the window sizes. 09:13:19 ph has joined #webtv 09:13:41 Guen: To support this use case we think 3 APIs should be considered: running the channel (up/down/set), obtaining channel and program information (scan, get current channel info, get channel list, get current program information, get program list), and window size adjustment (full screen, enlarge/curtail screen size). 09:14:15 yosuke has joined #webtv 09:14:41 tomoyuki has joined #webtv 09:15:39 Guen:Requirements: The development of the APIs should adopt existing standards like the