16:07] == daveL [~daveL@public.irc.w3.org] has joined #mlw-lt [16:08] == Milan [~Milan@public.irc.w3.org] has joined #mlw-lt [16:08]  chair: dF [16:08]  scribe: daveL [16:08]  rollcall: milan, naoto, davidF, shaun, yves [16:09]  apologies: felix [16:09] == dF [~dF@public.irc.w3.org] has joined #mlw-lt [16:11]  rollcall: milan, davidF, yves, dave [16:11]  http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF Mapping [16:11]  rollcall: add naoto [16:13]  dF: go throug proposal data category by data category [16:13]  ... translate has issue in v1.2 as there is not an inverse of transalte [16:14]  ... in tcd-UL prototype we use custom DT and DNT [16:14]  Yves_: proposed using protected for no translate and just something like 'DT' for the inverse [16:15]  ... as this is in the spec [16:16]  dF: but is protected actually a full match. But this is not a big deal, so happy to maximise use of existing [16:17]  Yves: so are we agreed that we use protected for no translate and customer for translate=yes, i.e. x-dt for 'do translate' [16:18]  df: note are fairly straight forward [16:18]  Yves_: but ITS has attribute for alter/description which doesnt have equivalent in XLIFF [16:19]  df; so can we add an attribute to an exisitng node for this? [16:19]  yves_ could we use priority, which is value 1-10 [16:20]  ... so perhaps 1=alert and 10=descption [16:21]  df: does anyone use these already [16:21]  yves_; not see it use so far [16:22] == dF [~dF@public.irc.w3.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 20 seconds] [16:22]  df: we have no option since private attribute are not allowed [16:22]  .. so we must use priority [16:26]  yves; in 2.0 there is no extensibility on note [16:27]  df: so we need to propose extension for ITS2.0 for its note type [16:28]  yves: agreed or ask TC to introduce this into 2.0 core [16:29]  action: dF to propose extensible of note to support ITS type to XLIFF TC [16:29] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. [16:29] <@trackbot> Created ACTION-257 - Propose extensible of note to support ITS type to XLIFF TC [on David Filip - due 2012-11-02]. [16:30]  milan: noted that in 1.2 we can have values less than 1, so description needs to be '10' [16:30]  dF: for 2.0 mrk there is no extensibility [16:31] == joerg [~joerg@public.irc.w3.org] has joined #mlw-lt [16:33]  Yves: but we have to consider that these aren't parsed using an ITS processer, since node don't work as ITS nodes [16:34]  ... but we want to indicate we are supporting a mapping to the corresponding ITS attribute [16:34]  daveL: perhaps most clear to use same name but with alternative name space, e.g. itsx or itsxlf [16:35]  action: yves_ to ask XLIFF TC what best practice of mapping ITS into a namespace in XLIFF [16:35] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. [16:35] <@trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find yves_. You can review and register nicknames at . [16:36]  Yves: to ask XLIFF TC what best practice of mapping ITS into a namespace in XLIFF [16:36]  action: Yves to ask XLIFF TC what best practice of mapping ITS into a namespace in XLIFF [16:36] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. [16:36] <@trackbot> Created ACTION-258 - Ask XLIFF TC what best practice of mapping ITS into a namespace in XLIFF [on Yves Savourel - due 2012-11-02]. [16:38]  yves: ask if we should be consistent in naming as its mapping [16:38]  dF: let revist names later, and focus on structure now [16:39]  action: dF to review names of new attributed for ITs to ensure understandability and consistency [16:39] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. [16:39] <@trackbot> Created ACTION-259 - Review names of new attributed for ITs to ensure understandability and consistency [on David Filip - due 2012-11-02]. [16:40]  yves: for local note we still have problem adding custom attributes in mrk [16:40]  dF: XLIFF TC need to revisit introduction of extensibility in mrk for 2.0 [16:41]  df: moving onto terminology [16:42]  ... suggest treating its disambiguation togeht with terminology, as they facets of the same lifecycle, which is interested to terminology folk [16:42] == joerg [~joerg@public.irc.w3.org] has quit ["Page closed"] [16:43]  yves; but this is inconsistent with ITS [16:44]  ... perhaps better for wait until disambig is stable before attenpting mapping to ITS [16:44]  df; so focussing just on terminology, but which structure levels [16:45]  yves: a term could be at various structure, but could just use an enclosing mrk if the whole unit correspond to the term [16:46]  ... and there are a bunch of attributes in 1.2 for mrk whihc includes 'term' [16:47]  df: can use similar appraoch on mrk in 2.0, but again this needs extensibility - a recurring issue [16:48]  Yves: we have info and info ref [16:48]  ... but not both at the same time [16:48]  ... so we can have terminfo extension for 1.2 [16:49]  ... but for 2.0 we have term again and can have value for value and ref if it is a reference [16:50]  topic: directionality [16:50]  df: in 1.2 people just using unicode characters [16:50]  yves: so do we map it or not [16:52]  df: some people use unicode characters [16:53]  ... an extension for trans-unit seem good, and works well at the paragraph level [16:54]  ... but would need similar extension on marker [16:55]  ... or use unicode characters for inline [16:55]  ... but in 2.0 its up to proposal for directionality [16:55]  topic: ruby [16:56]  yves; do we need mapping? is it implemented [16:56]  df: I have an idea on this, but lets skip it for now to avoid loosing valuable time [16:56]  topic; language information [16:57]  yves; could map to standard way of mapping to xliff mean for specifying at structural manner [16:58]  ... but it needs to be defined inlien with xml:lang in mrk [16:59]  df: but this is a problem since xliff is bi lingual [17:00]  yves; but it is still necessary, and we can use inline markup as mrk for this [17:01]  df: should it be its:langinfo for mrk [17:02]  daveL: perhaps map straight into XML lang, since its:langinfo is really playholder for non-standard lang informaiton [17:03]  yves: agreed [17:03]  df: dow e need extensibility for 2.0 again [17:03]  yves; not in this case, but it comes up a lot [17:04]  df: yes this exercise strengthen to case for mrk extensibility in 2.0 [17:05]  topic; element within text [17:05]  yves; doesn't need to be mapped since it is actioned at extraction time, in its it is an extraction requirement [17:07]  df: so lets look at free time in Lyon to do this [17:07]  topic; domain [17:08]  df; this would be a candidate for another x-its attribute [17:09]  yves: a candidate for having a in-file node [17:10]  df: let agree to push its local markup for this [17:11] == dF [~dF@public.irc.w3.org] has joined #mlw-lt [17:14]  daveL; we need to make sure to set teleonf time on wednesday so yves and co can schedule that in [17:16]  df; back to disambiguation, use mrk type = phrase and prose text for providing value [17:17]  yves; but are there any text value for disambig value [17:17]  milan: it is mostly urls or other repository references [17:20]  df; propose using identref [17:22]  ... and put text value in a comment [17:23]  df: so for xliff 2.0 do we prefer standoff or an mrk extension [17:26] == dF [~dF@public.irc.w3.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 20 seconds] [17:26]  action: dave to raise need to standoff markup for diambiguation in its to support multiple annotations in ITS [17:26] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. [17:26] <@trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find dave. You can review and register nicknames at . [17:28]  action: daveL to raise need to standoff markup for diambiguation in its to support multiple annotations in ITS [17:28] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. [17:28] <@trackbot> Created ACTION-260 - Raise need to standoff markup for diambiguation in its to support multiple annotations in ITS [on David Lewis - due 2012-11-02]. [17:28] == Milan [~Milan@public.irc.w3.org] has quit ["Page closed"] [17:29]  rrsagent, generate minutes [17:29]  rrsagent, make logs public [17:30]  rrsagent, generate minutes [17:31]  chair: daveL [17:31]  rrsagent, generate minutes [17:35]  rrsagent, generate minutes