13:24:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:24:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/24-rd-irc
13:24:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:24:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:24:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:24:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:24:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:24:35 <trackbot> Date: 24 October 2012
13:24:44 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:24:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:25:25 <vivienne> vivienne has joined #rd
13:26:13 <Justin_Brown> yo
13:26:13 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:26:41 <annika> annika has joined #rd
13:26:42 <Justin_Brown> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:26:42 <Zakim> +Justin_Brown; got it
13:29:45 <shadi> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
13:29:45 <shadi> Agenda+ Arrangements for TC and E2R (20m)
13:29:45 <shadi> Agenda+ Resources on eAccessibility (20m)
13:29:45 <shadi> Agenda+ Further Next Topic Discussion - User Modeling, Graphics, Alerts and Interrupts, Education Any Others (20m)
13:29:45 <shadi> Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)
13:29:46 <shadi> Agenda+ Mobile W3C Note Status (5m)
13:29:48 <shadi> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item)
13:29:50 <shadi> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item)
13:30:40 <Zakim> +??P22
13:30:44 <shawn> zakim, code?
13:30:44 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shawn
13:30:56 <Zakim> +Shawn
13:31:01 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Oct/0017.html
13:31:03 <shadi> chair: Shadi
13:31:28 <annika> zakim, ??P22 is annika
13:31:28 <Zakim> +annika; got it
13:31:43 <christos> christos has joined #rd
13:32:00 <Zakim> +??P0
13:32:10 <klaus> klaus has joined #rd
13:32:16 <Zakim> +??P24
13:32:28 <christos> zakim, ??P24 is me
13:32:28 <Zakim> +christos; got it
13:33:00 <klaus> zakim, ??P0 is me
13:33:00 <Zakim> +klaus; got it
13:33:13 <christos> zakim, mute me
13:33:13 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
13:33:18 <annika> zakim, mute me
13:33:18 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
13:33:18 <klaus> zakim, mute me
13:33:19 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
13:33:33 <shadi> regrets: Simon, Luz, Markel, Markku
13:34:20 <annika> zakim, unmute me
13:34:20 <Zakim> annika should no longer be muted
13:35:01 <shadi> regrets+ Peter
13:35:07 <shadi> scribe: annika
13:35:31 <shadi> agenda?
13:35:57 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 1
13:35:57 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
13:36:03 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:36:03 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Arrangements for TC and E2R (20m)" taken up [from shadi]
13:36:49 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
13:37:13 <vivienne> HI guys, sorry won't be able to participate - audio not working - will keep trying
13:37:20 <annika> shawn: TC update: all but two papers were resubmitted. most of the resubmitted paper will be accepted. About 9 papers will be in the symposium.
13:38:50 <annika> shadi: what's the status for the tc4r agenda?
13:39:02 <annika> shawn: to be discussed tomorrow.
13:39:37 <shawn> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Oct/0019.html
13:40:01 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #rd
13:40:08 <Zakim> -Justin_Brown
13:40:33 <annika> shadi: any further comments on the message (apart from what was discussed by email already)?
13:40:33 <giorgio> Hello to everybody. Right now audio is not working for me. Will keep trying it.
13:40:56 <yeliz> I cannot also call
13:41:08 <annika> shadi: the message is a good example that can be re-used in future symposia.
13:41:20 <yeliz>  I will try in a bit again, but the W3C 1.617.761.6200 is not working for me
13:41:59 <annika> shawn: depends on selection of papers. Not all aspects are covered in the submissions for the tc4r. The email is useful to get additional input.
13:42:07 <Zakim> +??P20
13:42:17 <Zakim> -??P20
13:42:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:42:38 <yeliz> zakim, [IPcaller] is yeliz
13:42:38 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
13:42:43 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
13:42:43 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:43:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:43:56 <Zakim> +??P26
13:43:57 <yeliz> Hello everybody
13:44:04 <Zakim> -??P26
13:44:29 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:44:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, annika, Shawn, klaus (muted), christos (muted), yeliz (muted), [IPcaller]
13:45:21 <Justin_brown> Justin_brown has joined #rd
13:45:56 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
13:45:56 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
13:46:15 <shadi> scribe: yeliz
13:46:16 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
13:46:16 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:46:18 <Zakim> +??P26
13:46:32 <giorgio> zakim, ??p26 is giorgio
13:46:32 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
13:46:36 <Justin_brown> zakim, ??P26 is me
13:46:36 <Zakim> I already had ??P26 as giorgio, Justin_brown
13:47:05 <Justin_brown> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:47:05 <Zakim> +Justin_brown; got it
13:47:10 <yeliz> Shadi: The discussion is when to send the call to the IG
13:47:10 <christos> q+
13:47:17 <yeliz> Shadi: Any thoughts about this
13:47:19 <giorgio> zakim, ??p26 is giorgio
13:47:19 <Zakim> I already had ??P26 as giorgio, giorgio
13:47:31 <christos> ack me
13:47:33 <yeliz> Shawn: My preference will be to get the papers out ASAP
13:47:49 <yeliz> Christos: I think it is better to publish papers asap
13:48:04 <yeliz> so the discussion can start early, and putting in a link to the existing papers would be good
13:48:15 <yeliz> Shadi: people might have reactions to the existing papers
13:48:28 <christos> zakim, mute me
13:48:28 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
13:48:39 <yeliz> Shawn: If people have questions/comments then they can send it to the list early, may be we should add that to the message
13:48:54 <yeliz> Shawn: I am afraid it might be very long, so a summary would be good
13:49:09 <yeliz> Shadi: I agree, there are 4 parag.s to get to the what you are looking for
13:49:21 <yeliz> Shadi: Any questions Shawn?
13:49:29 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:49:29 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
13:49:31 <klaus> zakim, unmute me
13:49:31 <Zakim> klaus should no longer be muted
13:49:35 <yeliz> Shawn: As soon it is ready I will send a list
13:49:45 <annika> annika has joined #rd
13:49:48 <yeliz> Klaus: We received 17 papers
13:50:11 <yeliz> Klaus: Receieves were done last week, all done, thanks so much for reviewing the paper
13:50:29 <yeliz> Klaus: the quality is good, out of 17 3-4 received very low numbers
13:50:52 <yeliz> Klaus: Others got very close scores, we will probably have 12/13 papers
13:51:17 <yeliz> Klaus: We can have further selections, we can focus on topics,
13:51:32 <yeliz> Klaus: it might be a option to do it in two parts
13:51:52 <yeliz> Klaus: We can have different considerations which can be discussed in the group
13:52:14 <yeliz> Klaus: we have three domains: about guidelines, definitions, rules for easy to read
13:52:24 <yeliz> Klaus: 7 papers-?
13:52:36 <yeliz> Klaus: Tools (5 papers) and tools development
13:52:45 <shadi> s/papers-?/papers on globish
13:53:15 <yeliz> Klaus: Some papers on workflows in easy to read
13:53:32 <yeliz> Klaus: one submission is of the topic, guidance on blind users, we emailed them back
13:53:43 <yeliz> saying that they should wait for another seminar
13:53:51 <yeliz> we are now preparing the feedback to participants
13:54:22 <yeliz> and for this we need to have a discussion in the group to see how we will proceed what will be the outline, and how many papers will be accepted, etc
13:54:49 <yeliz> Shadi: we discussed this last week, and we agreed that it would be diffcult to have another one in this topic before Christmas
13:55:03 <yeliz> and we also duscussed that longer than two hours will be difficult
13:55:42 <yeliz> Shadi: we can presentation and discussion in part 1, and have a short break and continue to the discussion after the break
13:55:58 <yeliz> ...asking questions to each author, we can ask questions to cluster of papers/authors
13:56:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:56:13 <vivienne> ZAKIM, IPcaller is me
13:56:13 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
13:56:16 <yeliz> ...but this still has problems, as getting answers will take long
13:56:37 <yeliz> Shadi: Are there any brilliant ideas to resolve this
13:56:54 <yeliz> Shadi: we have too many good papers, and how to fit that into a short time as briefly as possible
13:57:03 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:57:03 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
13:57:06 <yeliz> ...any thoughts??
13:57:55 <yeliz> Klaus: may be we come up with a proposal, taking into account the considerastions, like time limit, etc.
13:58:05 <yeliz> ...we should merit the submissions
13:58:18 <yeliz> ...they also have possibility to express themselves
13:58:39 <yeliz> ...first panel and presentations, and then have a more focused with a discussion, I don't see a negative aspect in this
13:58:48 <yeliz> ....perhaps this could lead to a longer discussion
13:59:33 <christos> q+
13:59:51 <yeliz> Shadi: two hours limit came out from the last week's discussion, especially considering people with mother languages other than English
14:00:27 <yeliz> Klaus: we can allow them with 5 minutes presentation, and have discussion would be good
14:00:36 <yeliz> ....have discussion afterwords would be good
14:01:00 <yeliz> Shadi: we kind of moved away from the presentation model, are you planning to do that?
14:01:10 <christos> q-
14:01:22 <yeliz> Shadi: it will be very difficult to have people stick to the time limits
14:01:27 <yeliz> Zakim, q+
14:01:27 <Zakim> I see yeliz on the speaker queue
14:01:43 <yeliz> zakim, unmute me
14:01:43 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:03:25 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:03:25 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:03:45 <shawn> Yeliz: clusters/themes... maybe send questions ahead of time, and post author answers ahead of time
14:04:06 <yeliz> zakim, unmute me
14:04:06 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:04:30 <shawn> Yeliz: when answers are written - it's good for the Note/report
14:05:15 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:05:15 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:05:26 <shawn> ... panel can just be discussion based on the answers. nobody give presentations, nobody answers specific questions directly. it's just a discussion
14:05:56 <yeliz> Yeliz: Specific questions to send to each authors, and then the panel could be grouped into 3 themes, and you start the discussion with specific questions
14:06:00 <shawn> [ Yeliz sharing perspectives from Mobile sympsoium & report(Note) writing :-]
14:06:06 <yeliz> :)
14:06:09 <annika> q+
14:06:18 <yeliz> zakim, q-
14:06:19 <Zakim> I see annika on the speaker queue
14:06:37 <yeliz> Klaus: If the questions are already answered, why one will attend the panel
14:06:37 <yeliz> ?
14:07:27 <yeliz> ....may be the questions will change the format of the discussion
14:07:38 <yeliz> ...and we also force people to write more
14:07:51 <yeliz> Shadi: I agree that they must be frustrating to write more and answer more questions
14:07:51 <shawn> q?
14:08:16 <shawn> ack a
14:08:19 <annika> zakim ack me
14:08:26 <yeliz> ...but from the experience of the previous symposiums, presentations people just read what they already said in the paper
14:08:42 <giorgio> q+
14:08:50 <yeliz> Anika: I think it is a good idea to send them the questions
14:09:12 <yeliz> ...but I don't like writing the answers as I think it becomes scripting
14:09:38 <yeliz> ...I attended the 1st symposium and the time limit was very difficult to maintain
14:10:07 <yeliz> ....questions can be prepared beforehand and they could be asked beforehand
14:10:28 <yeliz> zakim, unmute me
14:10:28 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:10:35 <annika> zakim, mute me
14:10:35 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
14:10:42 <christos> q+
14:10:50 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:10:50 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:11:07 <giorgio> i'm sorry.
14:11:12 <giorgio> i'll type it then
14:11:27 <giorgio> i think it's a pbm with mine setup
14:11:52 <christos> ack me
14:12:39 <giorgio> we have 2 requirements: 1 is to let people run a discussion; 2 let each of the authors to have a chance to say something. thus I would go for 1 or 2 questions that could challenge all presenters, and ask them to respond and elaborate on them
14:12:41 <yeliz> Christos: If we already separated papers into three themes, and have 3 panels, we can have generic questions and we can have specific questions
14:13:21 <yeliz> ...3 panels approach would be good
14:13:43 <shadi> q- giorgio
14:13:44 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:13:45 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
14:13:58 <yeliz> Shadi: I hope this discussion will give you an idead
14:15:09 <yeliz> Shadi: any more questions/comments?
14:15:22 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:15:22 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Resources on eAccessibility (20m)" taken up [from shadi]
14:15:31 <klaus> zakim, mute me
14:15:31 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
14:15:43 <yeliz> Shadi: This was not on the agenda
14:16:01 <yeliz> Shadi: we discussed with Simon, but did not manage to bring it to discussion here
14:16:31 <yeliz> Shadi: the idea is to have RDWG Wiki to have internally for discussion, etc
14:16:49 <yeliz> Shadi: the idea is to give the discussions to public face
14:17:04 <yeliz> Shadi: have categories, etc and publicise it
14:17:36 <yeliz> Shadi: the idea to create synopsis of a topic and then have this public
14:17:44 <yeliz> ...Wiki has no review, etc
14:17:47 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/resources/
14:17:55 <yeliz> ...but we can filter them and publicise them with small synopsis
14:18:30 <yeliz> Shadi: how would we organise such information, may be more tabular format, etc. Have tiles, which would allow you to drill down
14:18:35 <yeliz> ...or it could be in list format
14:18:48 <shawn>  { syn·op·sis [si-nop-sis] - plural syn·op·ses [-seez]  :-}
14:19:00 <yeliz> ...we would like to discuss to create this public face, so that the community can be involved in the discussion
14:19:15 <yeliz> ...put pointing them to Wiki is cumbersome and difficult
14:19:25 <christos> q+
14:19:30 <giorgio> q+ on using tags
14:19:36 <christos> ack me
14:19:40 <yeliz> ...any ideas how to do it?
14:19:59 <yeliz> Christos: Is the resources open to public? Can people comment on them?
14:20:19 <yeliz> ...and also is it something that we are going to update it?
14:20:47 <yeliz> Shadi: Will this be something that public will comment? or is it something that we will maintain?
14:21:09 <yeliz> Shadi: It should be more controlled resource, something that is reveived by the group
14:21:45 <yeliz> ...ofcourse we would like to have comments from the public, but we will have the control to add resources
14:22:10 <yeliz> ....Topic: involving users, and resources, etc
14:22:29 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:22:29 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
14:22:41 <yeliz> ...somebody might come along and say we have a resource on that topic, and there will an email that they can send the resources
14:23:07 <yeliz> Giorgio: I have a suggestion: tagged cloud as a main page, and tag could be part of topics, etc
14:23:21 <yeliz> ...Issue: issue is who is going to maintain it
14:23:32 <yeliz> ...maintain topics, tags, etc
14:23:42 <yeliz> Shadi: good question
14:23:58 <yeliz> Shadi: we have it as a deliverable in the group charter so the group needs to maintain it
14:24:17 <yeliz> Shadi: I like the tag idea so we can consider that
14:24:23 <yeliz> ...Other thoughts/questions?
14:24:36 <shawn> ack me
14:24:38 <yeliz> Shadi: Shawn, any comment with your EO hat on?
14:25:01 <shadi> q- giorgio
14:25:22 <yeliz> Shawn: I think it is a great idea, very simple, I think one of the questions is how much time/effort will take to do it?
14:25:55 <yeliz> Shadi: the idea is to put the bunch out
14:26:18 <yeliz> Shadi: We can transfer piece by piece
14:26:22 <yeliz> zakim, q+
14:26:22 <Zakim> I see yeliz on the speaker queue
14:26:23 <christos> q+
14:26:29 <yeliz> zakim, unmute me
14:26:29 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:27:17 <shawn> Yeliz: great idea. important for visbility of group. concerns about maintaining the list of resources. better to keep simple at the beginning. list of topics with synopsis, but not a lot of details.
14:27:28 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:27:28 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:27:33 <shawn> ... low maintenance
14:27:54 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:27:54 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:28:30 <yeliz> Yeliz: I think "maintenance" is someting that we have to consider from the beginning
14:28:46 <yeliz> Shadi: we can think of it as a public face to the Wiki data
14:28:48 <christos> ack me
14:29:40 <yeliz> Christos: I think a tag cloud is a good. Wiki page can be tagged properly and the tag cloud can be generated automatically
14:29:55 <yeliz> ...and that would be all we need to maintain
14:30:29 <yeliz> Shadi: we can always update the Wiki page as we all have login
14:30:40 <yeliz> ...but I think the public face is more controlled
14:30:50 <yeliz> ...it should represent the group consensus
14:30:52 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:30:52 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
14:30:55 <yeliz> Yeliz: I agree with this
14:31:14 <yeliz> Yeliz: It is public face so it should reflect the groups consensus
14:31:29 <yeliz> Shadi: please remember to garden/updare the Wiki
14:31:47 <yeliz> Shadi: we could not go through all the items in the agenda so we will continue with these
14:32:15 <yeliz> Shadi: and if you have any suggestion, please let us know for the next topic
14:32:25 <giorgio> bye
14:32:27 <yeliz> Shadi: thanks all
14:32:28 <annika> bye
14:32:28 <vivienne> good night all
14:32:29 <Zakim> -Justin_brown
14:32:29 <christos> goodbye
14:32:31 <Zakim> -giorgio
14:32:31 <vivienne> vivienne has left #rd
14:32:32 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:32:33 <klaus> bye
14:32:33 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
14:32:33 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:32:41 <Zakim> -christos
14:32:43 <Zakim> -klaus
14:32:45 <Zakim> -vivienne
14:32:46 <shawn> shawn has left #rd
14:32:47 <Zakim> -yeliz
14:32:48 <Zakim> -annika
14:32:49 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:32:49 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:51 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Justin_Brown, Shawn, annika, christos, klaus, yeliz, giorgio, vivienne
14:33:11 <annika> annika has left #rd
14:36:50 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:36:50 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:36:50 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:36:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:36:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/24-rd-minutes.html trackbot
14:36:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:36:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items