IRC log of rd on 2012-10-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:24:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:24:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:24:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:24:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rd
13:24:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
13:24:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:24:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:24:35 [trackbot]
Date: 24 October 2012
13:24:44 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:24:51 [Zakim]
13:25:25 [vivienne]
vivienne has joined #rd
13:26:13 [Justin_Brown]
13:26:13 [Zakim]
13:26:41 [annika]
annika has joined #rd
13:26:42 [Justin_Brown]
zakim, IPcaller is me
13:26:42 [Zakim]
+Justin_Brown; got it
13:29:45 [shadi]
Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
13:29:45 [shadi]
Agenda+ Arrangements for TC and E2R (20m)
13:29:45 [shadi]
Agenda+ Resources on eAccessibility (20m)
13:29:45 [shadi]
Agenda+ Further Next Topic Discussion - User Modeling, Graphics, Alerts and Interrupts, Education Any Others (20m)
13:29:45 [shadi]
Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)
13:29:46 [shadi]
Agenda+ Mobile W3C Note Status (5m)
13:29:48 [shadi]
Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item)
13:29:50 [shadi]
Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item)
13:30:40 [Zakim]
13:30:44 [shawn]
zakim, code?
13:30:44 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, shawn
13:30:56 [Zakim]
13:31:01 [shadi]
13:31:03 [shadi]
chair: Shadi
13:31:28 [annika]
zakim, ??P22 is annika
13:31:28 [Zakim]
+annika; got it
13:31:43 [christos]
christos has joined #rd
13:32:00 [Zakim]
13:32:10 [klaus]
klaus has joined #rd
13:32:16 [Zakim]
13:32:28 [christos]
zakim, ??P24 is me
13:32:28 [Zakim]
+christos; got it
13:33:00 [klaus]
zakim, ??P0 is me
13:33:00 [Zakim]
+klaus; got it
13:33:13 [christos]
zakim, mute me
13:33:13 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
13:33:18 [annika]
zakim, mute me
13:33:18 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
13:33:18 [klaus]
zakim, mute me
13:33:19 [Zakim]
klaus should now be muted
13:33:33 [shadi]
regrets: Simon, Luz, Markel, Markku
13:34:20 [annika]
zakim, unmute me
13:34:20 [Zakim]
annika should no longer be muted
13:35:01 [shadi]
regrets+ Peter
13:35:07 [shadi]
scribe: annika
13:35:31 [shadi]
13:35:57 [shadi]
zakim, drop agendum 1
13:35:57 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
13:36:03 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
13:36:03 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Arrangements for TC and E2R (20m)" taken up [from shadi]
13:36:49 [giorgio]
giorgio has joined #rd
13:37:13 [vivienne]
HI guys, sorry won't be able to participate - audio not working - will keep trying
13:37:20 [annika]
shawn: TC update: all but two papers were resubmitted. most of the resubmitted paper will be accepted. About 9 papers will be in the symposium.
13:38:50 [annika]
shadi: what's the status for the tc4r agenda?
13:39:02 [annika]
shawn: to be discussed tomorrow.
13:39:37 [shawn]
13:40:01 [yeliz]
yeliz has joined #rd
13:40:08 [Zakim]
13:40:33 [annika]
shadi: any further comments on the message (apart from what was discussed by email already)?
13:40:33 [giorgio]
Hello to everybody. Right now audio is not working for me. Will keep trying it.
13:40:56 [yeliz]
I cannot also call
13:41:08 [annika]
shadi: the message is a good example that can be re-used in future symposia.
13:41:20 [yeliz]
I will try in a bit again, but the W3C 1.617.761.6200 is not working for me
13:41:59 [annika]
shawn: depends on selection of papers. Not all aspects are covered in the submissions for the tc4r. The email is useful to get additional input.
13:42:07 [Zakim]
13:42:17 [Zakim]
13:42:26 [Zakim]
13:42:38 [yeliz]
zakim, [IPcaller] is yeliz
13:42:38 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
13:42:43 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
13:42:43 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:43:10 [Zakim]
13:43:56 [Zakim]
13:43:57 [yeliz]
Hello everybody
13:44:04 [Zakim]
13:44:29 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
13:44:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shadi, annika, Shawn, klaus (muted), christos (muted), yeliz (muted), [IPcaller]
13:45:21 [Justin_brown]
Justin_brown has joined #rd
13:45:56 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
13:45:56 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
13:46:15 [shadi]
scribe: yeliz
13:46:16 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:46:16 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:46:18 [Zakim]
13:46:32 [giorgio]
zakim, ??p26 is giorgio
13:46:32 [Zakim]
+giorgio; got it
13:46:36 [Justin_brown]
zakim, ??P26 is me
13:46:36 [Zakim]
I already had ??P26 as giorgio, Justin_brown
13:47:05 [Justin_brown]
zakim, IPcaller is me
13:47:05 [Zakim]
+Justin_brown; got it
13:47:10 [yeliz]
Shadi: The discussion is when to send the call to the IG
13:47:10 [christos]
13:47:17 [yeliz]
Shadi: Any thoughts about this
13:47:19 [giorgio]
zakim, ??p26 is giorgio
13:47:19 [Zakim]
I already had ??P26 as giorgio, giorgio
13:47:31 [christos]
ack me
13:47:33 [yeliz]
Shawn: My preference will be to get the papers out ASAP
13:47:49 [yeliz]
Christos: I think it is better to publish papers asap
13:48:04 [yeliz]
so the discussion can start early, and putting in a link to the existing papers would be good
13:48:15 [yeliz]
Shadi: people might have reactions to the existing papers
13:48:28 [christos]
zakim, mute me
13:48:28 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
13:48:39 [yeliz]
Shawn: If people have questions/comments then they can send it to the list early, may be we should add that to the message
13:48:54 [yeliz]
Shawn: I am afraid it might be very long, so a summary would be good
13:49:09 [yeliz]
Shadi: I agree, there are 4 parag.s to get to the what you are looking for
13:49:21 [yeliz]
Shadi: Any questions Shawn?
13:49:29 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
13:49:29 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
13:49:31 [klaus]
zakim, unmute me
13:49:31 [Zakim]
klaus should no longer be muted
13:49:35 [yeliz]
Shawn: As soon it is ready I will send a list
13:49:45 [annika]
annika has joined #rd
13:49:48 [yeliz]
Klaus: We received 17 papers
13:50:11 [yeliz]
Klaus: Receieves were done last week, all done, thanks so much for reviewing the paper
13:50:29 [yeliz]
Klaus: the quality is good, out of 17 3-4 received very low numbers
13:50:52 [yeliz]
Klaus: Others got very close scores, we will probably have 12/13 papers
13:51:17 [yeliz]
Klaus: We can have further selections, we can focus on topics,
13:51:32 [yeliz]
Klaus: it might be a option to do it in two parts
13:51:52 [yeliz]
Klaus: We can have different considerations which can be discussed in the group
13:52:14 [yeliz]
Klaus: we have three domains: about guidelines, definitions, rules for easy to read
13:52:24 [yeliz]
Klaus: 7 papers-?
13:52:36 [yeliz]
Klaus: Tools (5 papers) and tools development
13:52:45 [shadi]
s/papers-?/papers on globish
13:53:15 [yeliz]
Klaus: Some papers on workflows in easy to read
13:53:32 [yeliz]
Klaus: one submission is of the topic, guidance on blind users, we emailed them back
13:53:43 [yeliz]
saying that they should wait for another seminar
13:53:51 [yeliz]
we are now preparing the feedback to participants
13:54:22 [yeliz]
and for this we need to have a discussion in the group to see how we will proceed what will be the outline, and how many papers will be accepted, etc
13:54:49 [yeliz]
Shadi: we discussed this last week, and we agreed that it would be diffcult to have another one in this topic before Christmas
13:55:03 [yeliz]
and we also duscussed that longer than two hours will be difficult
13:55:42 [yeliz]
Shadi: we can presentation and discussion in part 1, and have a short break and continue to the discussion after the break
13:55:58 [yeliz]
...asking questions to each author, we can ask questions to cluster of papers/authors
13:56:02 [Zakim]
13:56:13 [vivienne]
ZAKIM, IPcaller is me
13:56:13 [Zakim]
+vivienne; got it
13:56:16 [yeliz]
...but this still has problems, as getting answers will take long
13:56:37 [yeliz]
Shadi: Are there any brilliant ideas to resolve this
13:56:54 [yeliz]
Shadi: we have too many good papers, and how to fit that into a short time as briefly as possible
13:57:03 [vivienne]
zakim, mute me
13:57:03 [Zakim]
vivienne should now be muted
13:57:06 [yeliz]
...any thoughts??
13:57:55 [yeliz]
Klaus: may be we come up with a proposal, taking into account the considerastions, like time limit, etc.
13:58:05 [yeliz]
...we should merit the submissions
13:58:18 [yeliz]
...they also have possibility to express themselves
13:58:39 [yeliz]
...first panel and presentations, and then have a more focused with a discussion, I don't see a negative aspect in this
13:58:48 [yeliz]
....perhaps this could lead to a longer discussion
13:59:33 [christos]
13:59:51 [yeliz]
Shadi: two hours limit came out from the last week's discussion, especially considering people with mother languages other than English
14:00:27 [yeliz]
Klaus: we can allow them with 5 minutes presentation, and have discussion would be good
14:00:36 [yeliz]
....have discussion afterwords would be good
14:01:00 [yeliz]
Shadi: we kind of moved away from the presentation model, are you planning to do that?
14:01:10 [christos]
14:01:22 [yeliz]
Shadi: it will be very difficult to have people stick to the time limits
14:01:27 [yeliz]
Zakim, q+
14:01:27 [Zakim]
I see yeliz on the speaker queue
14:01:43 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:01:43 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:03:25 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:03:25 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:03:45 [shawn]
Yeliz: clusters/themes... maybe send questions ahead of time, and post author answers ahead of time
14:04:06 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:04:06 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:04:30 [shawn]
Yeliz: when answers are written - it's good for the Note/report
14:05:15 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:05:15 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:05:26 [shawn]
... panel can just be discussion based on the answers. nobody give presentations, nobody answers specific questions directly. it's just a discussion
14:05:56 [yeliz]
Yeliz: Specific questions to send to each authors, and then the panel could be grouped into 3 themes, and you start the discussion with specific questions
14:06:00 [shawn]
[ Yeliz sharing perspectives from Mobile sympsoium & report(Note) writing :-]
14:06:06 [yeliz]
14:06:09 [annika]
14:06:18 [yeliz]
zakim, q-
14:06:19 [Zakim]
I see annika on the speaker queue
14:06:37 [yeliz]
Klaus: If the questions are already answered, why one will attend the panel
14:06:37 [yeliz]
14:07:27 [yeliz]
....may be the questions will change the format of the discussion
14:07:38 [yeliz]
...and we also force people to write more
14:07:51 [yeliz]
Shadi: I agree that they must be frustrating to write more and answer more questions
14:07:51 [shawn]
14:08:16 [shawn]
ack a
14:08:19 [annika]
zakim ack me
14:08:26 [yeliz]
...but from the experience of the previous symposiums, presentations people just read what they already said in the paper
14:08:42 [giorgio]
14:08:50 [yeliz]
Anika: I think it is a good idea to send them the questions
14:09:12 [yeliz]
...but I don't like writing the answers as I think it becomes scripting
14:09:38 [yeliz]
...I attended the 1st symposium and the time limit was very difficult to maintain
14:10:07 [yeliz]
....questions can be prepared beforehand and they could be asked beforehand
14:10:28 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:10:28 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:10:35 [annika]
zakim, mute me
14:10:35 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
14:10:42 [christos]
14:10:50 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:10:50 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:11:07 [giorgio]
i'm sorry.
14:11:12 [giorgio]
i'll type it then
14:11:27 [giorgio]
i think it's a pbm with mine setup
14:11:52 [christos]
ack me
14:12:39 [giorgio]
we have 2 requirements: 1 is to let people run a discussion; 2 let each of the authors to have a chance to say something. thus I would go for 1 or 2 questions that could challenge all presenters, and ask them to respond and elaborate on them
14:12:41 [yeliz]
Christos: If we already separated papers into three themes, and have 3 panels, we can have generic questions and we can have specific questions
14:13:21 [yeliz]
...3 panels approach would be good
14:13:43 [shadi]
q- giorgio
14:13:44 [christos]
zakim, mute me
14:13:45 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
14:13:58 [yeliz]
Shadi: I hope this discussion will give you an idead
14:15:09 [yeliz]
Shadi: any more questions/comments?
14:15:22 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:15:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Resources on eAccessibility (20m)" taken up [from shadi]
14:15:31 [klaus]
zakim, mute me
14:15:31 [Zakim]
klaus should now be muted
14:15:43 [yeliz]
Shadi: This was not on the agenda
14:16:01 [yeliz]
Shadi: we discussed with Simon, but did not manage to bring it to discussion here
14:16:31 [yeliz]
Shadi: the idea is to have RDWG Wiki to have internally for discussion, etc
14:16:49 [yeliz]
Shadi: the idea is to give the discussions to public face
14:17:04 [yeliz]
Shadi: have categories, etc and publicise it
14:17:36 [yeliz]
Shadi: the idea to create synopsis of a topic and then have this public
14:17:44 [yeliz]
...Wiki has no review, etc
14:17:47 [shadi]
14:17:55 [yeliz]
...but we can filter them and publicise them with small synopsis
14:18:30 [yeliz]
Shadi: how would we organise such information, may be more tabular format, etc. Have tiles, which would allow you to drill down
14:18:35 [yeliz]
...or it could be in list format
14:18:48 [shawn]
{ syn·op·sis [si-nop-sis] - plural syn·op·ses [-seez] :-}
14:19:00 [yeliz]
...we would like to discuss to create this public face, so that the community can be involved in the discussion
14:19:15 [yeliz]
...put pointing them to Wiki is cumbersome and difficult
14:19:25 [christos]
14:19:30 [giorgio]
q+ on using tags
14:19:36 [christos]
ack me
14:19:40 [yeliz]
...any ideas how to do it?
14:19:59 [yeliz]
Christos: Is the resources open to public? Can people comment on them?
14:20:19 [yeliz]
...and also is it something that we are going to update it?
14:20:47 [yeliz]
Shadi: Will this be something that public will comment? or is it something that we will maintain?
14:21:09 [yeliz]
Shadi: It should be more controlled resource, something that is reveived by the group
14:21:45 [yeliz]
...ofcourse we would like to have comments from the public, but we will have the control to add resources
14:22:10 [yeliz]
....Topic: involving users, and resources, etc
14:22:29 [christos]
zakim, mute me
14:22:29 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
14:22:41 [yeliz]
...somebody might come along and say we have a resource on that topic, and there will an email that they can send the resources
14:23:07 [yeliz]
Giorgio: I have a suggestion: tagged cloud as a main page, and tag could be part of topics, etc
14:23:21 [yeliz]
...Issue: issue is who is going to maintain it
14:23:32 [yeliz]
...maintain topics, tags, etc
14:23:42 [yeliz]
Shadi: good question
14:23:58 [yeliz]
Shadi: we have it as a deliverable in the group charter so the group needs to maintain it
14:24:17 [yeliz]
Shadi: I like the tag idea so we can consider that
14:24:23 [yeliz]
...Other thoughts/questions?
14:24:36 [shawn]
ack me
14:24:38 [yeliz]
Shadi: Shawn, any comment with your EO hat on?
14:25:01 [shadi]
q- giorgio
14:25:22 [yeliz]
Shawn: I think it is a great idea, very simple, I think one of the questions is how much time/effort will take to do it?
14:25:55 [yeliz]
Shadi: the idea is to put the bunch out
14:26:18 [yeliz]
Shadi: We can transfer piece by piece
14:26:22 [yeliz]
zakim, q+
14:26:22 [Zakim]
I see yeliz on the speaker queue
14:26:23 [christos]
14:26:29 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:26:29 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:27:17 [shawn]
Yeliz: great idea. important for visbility of group. concerns about maintaining the list of resources. better to keep simple at the beginning. list of topics with synopsis, but not a lot of details.
14:27:28 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
14:27:28 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
14:27:33 [shawn]
... low maintenance
14:27:54 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:27:54 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:28:30 [yeliz]
Yeliz: I think "maintenance" is someting that we have to consider from the beginning
14:28:46 [yeliz]
Shadi: we can think of it as a public face to the Wiki data
14:28:48 [christos]
ack me
14:29:40 [yeliz]
Christos: I think a tag cloud is a good. Wiki page can be tagged properly and the tag cloud can be generated automatically
14:29:55 [yeliz]
...and that would be all we need to maintain
14:30:29 [yeliz]
Shadi: we can always update the Wiki page as we all have login
14:30:40 [yeliz]
...but I think the public face is more controlled
14:30:50 [yeliz] should represent the group consensus
14:30:52 [christos]
zakim, mute me
14:30:52 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
14:30:55 [yeliz]
Yeliz: I agree with this
14:31:14 [yeliz]
Yeliz: It is public face so it should reflect the groups consensus
14:31:29 [yeliz]
Shadi: please remember to garden/updare the Wiki
14:31:47 [yeliz]
Shadi: we could not go through all the items in the agenda so we will continue with these
14:32:15 [yeliz]
Shadi: and if you have any suggestion, please let us know for the next topic
14:32:25 [giorgio]
14:32:27 [yeliz]
Shadi: thanks all
14:32:28 [annika]
14:32:28 [vivienne]
good night all
14:32:29 [Zakim]
14:32:29 [christos]
14:32:31 [Zakim]
14:32:31 [vivienne]
vivienne has left #rd
14:32:32 [Zakim]
14:32:33 [klaus]
14:32:33 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
14:32:33 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:32:41 [Zakim]
14:32:43 [Zakim]
14:32:45 [Zakim]
14:32:46 [shawn]
shawn has left #rd
14:32:47 [Zakim]
14:32:48 [Zakim]
14:32:49 [Zakim]
14:32:49 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:51 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, Justin_Brown, Shawn, annika, christos, klaus, yeliz, giorgio, vivienne
14:33:11 [annika]
annika has left #rd
14:36:50 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
14:36:50 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:36:50 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:36:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:36:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
14:36:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:36:59 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items