13:59:32 RRSAgent has joined #ldp 13:59:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/22-ldp-irc 13:59:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:59:34 Zakim has joined #ldp 13:59:36 Zakim, this will be LDP 13:59:36 ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started 13:59:37 Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference 13:59:37 Date: 22 October 2012 13:59:43 +Arnaud 13:59:49 krp has joined #ldp 13:59:53 rgarcia has joined #ldp 14:00:05 Ruben1 has joined #ldp 14:00:09 Ashok_Malhotra has joined #ldp 14:00:18 Ruben1 has left #ldp 14:00:19 Ruben1 has joined #ldp 14:00:30 Ruben1 has joined #ldp 14:00:33 krp has left #ldp 14:00:44 -??P3 14:00:50 +??P7 14:00:59 +??P8 14:01:01 zakim, ??P7 is me 14:01:01 +rgarcia; got it 14:01:13 Zakim, ??P8 is me 14:01:13 +oberger; got it 14:01:15 + +1.845.235.aaaa 14:01:23 zakim, aaaa is me 14:01:23 +JohnArwe; got it 14:01:26 +??P10 14:01:27 +??P3 14:01:28 +Ruben 14:01:35 +Sandro 14:01:36 +Ashok_Malhotra 14:01:36 +SteveBattle 14:01:38 zakim, ??p10 is me 14:01:39 +antonis; got it 14:01:44 + +44.208.573.aabb 14:01:51 Zakim, ??P3 is me 14:01:51 +svillata; got it 14:02:06 Ruben has joined #ldp 14:02:09 nmihindu has joined #ldp 14:02:13 zakim, who am i 14:02:13 I don't understand 'who am i', Ruben 14:02:24 zakim, who is there 14:02:24 I don't understand 'who is there', Ruben 14:02:30 +Yves 14:02:33 zakim, who is here 14:02:33 Ruben, you need to end that query with '?' 14:02:40 zakim, who is here? 14:02:40 On the phone I see Arnaud, rgarcia, oberger, JohnArwe, antonis, svillata, Ruben, Sandro, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, +44.208.573.aabb, Yves 14:02:43 On IRC I see nmihindu, Ruben, Ashok_Malhotra, rgarcia, Zakim, RRSAgent, stevebattle, svillata, antonis, Arnaud, JohnArwe, oberger, bblfish, Yves, trackbot, sandro, ericP 14:03:06 *I did* 14:03:32 *he should at least say "bless you" or something* 14:03:34 +??P21 14:03:37 krp has joined #ldp 14:03:40 Hi Arnaud and all 14:05:16 roger has joined #ldp 14:05:18 can't seem to unmute 14:05:28 Zakim, ??P21 is me 14:05:28 +nmihindu; got it 14:06:00 Arnaud, yes, Andrei is probably too busy to participate I'm afraid 14:06:08 Arnaud, I'm happy to take minutes. 14:06:14 zakim, unmute oberger 14:06:14 oberger was not muted, JohnArwe 14:06:25 locally muted 14:06:40 +bblfish 14:06:53 hi 14:07:06 topic: approve minutes 14:07:19 mhausenblas has joined #ldp 14:07:19 topic: minutes from last week 14:07:19 scribenick: stevebattle 14:07:22 Zakim, mute me 14:07:22 nmihindu should now be muted 14:07:38 krp_ has joined #ldp 14:07:46 what's the URL? 14:07:49 +MHausenblas 14:08:20 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-10-15 14:08:35 thanks 14:08:44 +1 14:08:51 +??P30 14:09:01 cygri has joined #ldp 14:09:04 BartvanLeeuwen has joined #ldp 14:09:07 +1 14:09:09 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings is probably a link we should seed each meeting's irc with... 14:09:19 Zakim, cyrgi is with me 14:09:19 +cyrgi; got it 14:09:24 +1 14:09:38 zakim, ??P30 is me 14:09:38 +krp_; got it 14:10:02 arnaud: minutes approved (with plea that more people read them) 14:10:16 +??P32 14:10:24 Zakim, ??p32 is me 14:10:26 +BartvanLeeuwen; got it 14:10:50 Skipping 10.29 and 11.05 teleconferences due to TPAC ? 14:10:55 +EricP 14:10:57 arnaud: no telecon monday due to f2f. Proposes no call on the following Monday as well. 14:11:03 makes sense for dropping next Teleconf, as people will be at TPAC 14:11:29 ericP: woodstock 14:11:31 JohnArwe2 has joined #ldp 14:11:42 sandro: perhaps we could have an informal optional meeting to review highlights of f2f. 14:11:48 +1 sandro's idea, for those of us w/o travel budgets 14:12:00 Kalpa has joined #ldp 14:12:01 +1 makes sense for TPAC after party meeting 14:12:02 +1 sandro's proposal 14:12:05 +1 14:12:08 +1 14:12:19 +1 14:12:19 + +1.617.838.aacc 14:12:30 shall we use IRC during the F2F ? 14:12:35 yes 14:12:41 +1 14:12:42 i.e. will there be network on location ? 14:12:52 ooberger, yes 14:12:57 s/oo/o/ 14:12:58 arnaud: Agreed. skip 10/29/12, following meeting is catch-up. 14:12:58 Proposal: skip next meeting, and have informal meeting after TPAC 14:13:32 ( can't remember how to accept a proposal ) 14:13:42 topic: next 2 meetings 14:13:45 arnaud: One person is listed as participant but hasn't registered. No more room left, because observers have been accepted. 14:14:13 oct 29 cancelled, nov 5 will be recap of tpac f2f 14:15:11 arnaud: draft agenda is available. Crux of work is to go through the issues. Have people reviewed agenda? 14:16:40 still muted, sorry 14:16:41 issues follow naturally from use-cases 14:16:56 I meant at the F2F 14:18:08 JohnArwe has joined #ldp 14:18:08 sandro: likes to hear people explain use-cases in person. 14:18:11 we will need to update http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F1 with call-in details prior to nov 1 14:18:43 sandro: +1 14:19:03 arnaud: same dial-in number or not? 14:19:32 sandro: Probably same number but maybe conference code. Will look into it today. 14:20:30 arnaud: someone should add the information to the wiki. 14:20:46 topic: actions 14:21:14 JohnArwe has joined #ldp 14:21:22 mhausenblas: I will complete the sdshare review by f2f 14:22:16 steve: I'll change ucr terminology this week. 14:22:56 +Kalpa 14:23:07 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/25 14:23:21 ">eak aggregation and strong composition in containers" 14:23:25 "Weak aggregation and strong composition in containers" 14:24:59 q+ 14:25:58 JohnArwe has joined #ldp 14:26:00 +1 open as an issue - important that we are clear on it regardless of resolution 14:26:04 steve: explains aggregation is a very long winded way. 14:26:31 henry: don't think we should have restrictions on URIs being built in this way. 14:26:51 shall we open it then ? ;) 14:27:49 arnaud: Open issue 25. 14:28:01 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/26 14:28:30 Roger: I have opened my first w3c issue 14:28:44 ISSUE-26: creation model for LDP 14:28:45 ISSUE-26 creation model for LDP notes added 14:29:00 oops... should not copy-paste as such I guess 14:29:40 roger: Issue 26 creation model for LDP. There are many ways this might happen e.g. forms on the web. 14:29:50 q+ 14:29:51 fine to open 26; I would observe that the draft does not REQUIRE that the server uses all the POSTed triples, it follows HTTP by treating the POST request body as input used to create a resource. often they will have the same type, but I don't see that as required. 14:30:04 q- 14:30:41 q- 14:31:07 arnaud: no objections. Open issue 26. 14:31:23 trackbot, reopen ISSUE-26 14:31:23 ISSUE-26 creation model for LDP re-opened 14:31:40 trackbot, reopen ISSUE-25 14:31:40 ISSUE-25 Weak aggregation and strong composition in containers re-opened 14:31:58 Issue-8? 14:31:58 ISSUE-8 -- Better define or just not use the "Basic profile" terminology -- pending review 14:31:58 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/8 14:32:25 YES 14:32:45 topic: one issue pending review? issue-8 - can we close this? all agree that we can close this. 14:32:54 henry: has a small swap space. 14:33:15 makes sense 14:33:19 as a submitter, I'm satisfied :-) 14:33:23 I don't ahve a problem 14:33:31 s/henry/bblfish/ 14:34:01 yes, still muted 14:34:03 as a submitter, I'm satisfied :-) 14:34:07 let's close it 14:34:16 arnaud: everybody is satisfied. 14:34:20 close ISSUE-8 14:34:21 ISSUE-8 Better define or just not use the "Basic profile" terminology closed 14:34:42 JohnArwe has joined #ldp 14:34:49 topic: LDP Specification 14:35:05 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/hg/ldp.html 14:35:27 arnaud: Open issues have been added. Do we agree that we can publish this as the first *public* working draft? 14:36:28 +1 14:36:34 +1 14:36:37 +1 14:36:39 +1 14:36:41 +1 14:36:43 +1 14:36:43 +1 14:36:57 +1 14:36:57 +1 14:36:59 +1 14:37:01 +1 14:37:08 +1 14:37:10 +1 14:37:13 +1 14:37:24 +1 14:37:30 yay 14:37:42 JohnArwe has joined #ldp 14:37:42 +yay 14:37:42 \o/ 14:37:49 arnaud: Unanimous (+15) resolved! 14:37:53 +1 14:38:18 topic: Use-Cases and Requirements document 14:38:27 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements 14:39:44 we *lack* diagrams 14:40:20 Michael: hmmm, what would the purpose of the primer be? 14:40:32 Michael: I fear a bit the flood of related docs we have in RDF spec land 14:40:46 q+ 14:40:53 chainsaw in the background ? ;) 14:40:54 Michael: Primer in which sense? Like in http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/ … or? 14:41:10 steve: proposes move examples to primer. 14:41:50 agenda+ how many folks will dial in to the F2F? 14:42:01 arnaud: The descriptions seem to imply a solution, maybe too much analysis. 14:42:12 q+ 14:42:33 ack ashok 14:42:35 agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.10.22 14:43:03 I am high probability to dial in (early riser). 14:43:06 q+ to say that it's our (WG's) discretion to slice up the info into docs. creating a Primer will provide a nice resting place for Steve's investment 14:43:10 ashok_Malhotra: Would like to see a primer. Typically an afterthought. 14:43:13 ack eric 14:43:13 ericP, you wanted to say that it's our (WG's) discretion to slice up the info into docs. creating a Primer will provide a nice resting place for Steve's investment 14:43:42 q+ 14:44:07 ack steve 14:45:10 arnaud: I'd like steve to create a new home for the examples. 14:45:13 q+ 14:45:50 ack steve 14:46:42 JohnArwe2 has joined #ldp 14:47:31 steve: proposes that we leave issues in for now. 14:48:04 arnaud: Should we call this the 'primer' for now? 14:48:45 +1 examples 14:48:48 +1 14:48:58 Ashok_Malhotra: I'm more comfortable with "Examples". 14:49:07 +1 14:49:13 +1 14:49:17 +1 14:49:55 arnaud: We have agreement on "Examples" 14:50:50 arnaud: Another point on the UCR. We need to review document carefully. 14:50:53 q+ 14:51:30 what we need is to fill the "Scope and Motivation" section ? 14:52:20 ack steve 14:53:13 arnaud: Issues like e.g. authorization may not be on our agenda. 14:54:08 I think we should wait for TPAC 14:54:09 arnaud: Do people agree? 14:54:10 again : what we need is to fill the "Scope and Motivation" section ? who may draft it ? 14:54:22 q? 14:55:18 q+ 14:55:19 q? 14:55:29 ack me 14:55:35 arnaud: We should all decide that all use-cases are in/out-of scope. 14:56:07 mhasenblas: We should err on the side of conservatism. 14:56:11 maybe it's the cell connection, but I think arnaud and I are in violent agreement. 14:56:28 s/mhasenblas/hausenblas/ 14:56:50 +1 14:57:29 mhasenblas: We shouldn't try to boil the ocean. 14:57:48 s/mhasenblas/hausenblas/ 14:58:03 q+ 14:58:06 q? 14:58:14 q+ 14:58:32 I'm not convinced that use case is exactly the right granularity. it's a viable coarse-grained filter for sure. but I can also see that a very beautiful use case might mention (perhaps in passing) words that could be read to drive a requirement that we have (existing) consensus as being out of scope. 14:59:17 q? 14:59:57 ack bblfish 15:00:24 bblfish: We'll work on this at TPAC. 15:00:44 ericP: How many people will be dialing in for TPAC? 15:01:29 arnaud: People - make sure wiki is up-to-date. 15:01:32 ...in the end, any natural language formulation will be ambiguous for any determined reader. A relatively complete job might require enumerating all requirements that members can see being -potentially- elicited by each use case, de-dup'ing that list, and then one by one getting consensus on in/out. That sounds painful, but good jobs often are. 15:02:11 My argument was just to agree with arnaud and michel for a half way position, since the user stories are part of the dreams of the community and their reasons for wanting to participate 15:02:27 stevebattle: user stories provide the motivation. The scope may be narrower. 15:02:55 And it's OK to capture use-cases and mark them as out of scope. 15:03:07 s/moon/mars/ 15:03:25 q? 15:03:27 arnaud: The LDP isn't a mission to the moon. 15:03:28 q- 15:03:47 - +1.617.838.aacc 15:04:05 bblfish: We should link the use-cases to the spec to see how they tie-up. 15:04:38 arnaud: Please review the UCR. 15:04:45 -bblfish 15:04:46 bye, see you next week 15:04:46 -Sandro 15:04:47 - +44.208.573.aabb 15:04:47 arnaud: adjourned 15:04:48 -MHausenblas 15:04:48 -antonis 15:04:48 see ya in Lyon 15:04:49 -Ruben 15:04:51 -svillata 15:04:52 Ruben has left #ldp 15:04:52 -rgarcia 15:04:52 -Yves 15:04:54 -BartvanLeeuwen 15:04:54 -Ashok_Malhotra 15:04:57 bye 15:04:58 yes 15:05:01 -JohnArwe 15:05:01 bye 15:05:05 -Arnaud 15:05:06 -EricP 15:05:08 -nmihindu 15:05:09 -krp_ 15:05:11 -Kalpa 15:05:14 Arnaud, still muted in my VOIP software 15:05:25 it's ok, I understand 15:05:30 but could be calling you with regular phone number 15:05:44 do you have any idea for a restaurant for dinner on Thursday? 15:05:45 -oberger 15:05:49 oh 15:05:50 Kalpa has left #ldp 15:05:53 So what's the magic sauce to wrap-up the minutes? 15:06:02 Arnaud, not really 15:06:15 I've not lived in Lyon for the last 15 years at least ;) 15:06:22 ok, so we'll need to figure this out next week 15:07:06 stevebattle: this is it, nothing else to do, I will take it from there 15:07:07 http://mmmm.free.fr/scripts/script_liste_departement.php?dept=69 could provide good guidance 15:07:12 but no waranty 15:07:26 thanks, bye. 15:07:27 ok, thanks 15:07:42 trackbot, ends meeting 15:07:42 Sorry, Arnaud, I don't understand 'trackbot, ends meeting'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 15:07:49 -SteveBattle 15:07:50 trackbot, end meeting 15:07:50 Zakim, list attendees 15:07:50 SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended 15:07:50 Attendees were Arnaud, rgarcia, oberger, +1.845.235.aaaa, JohnArwe, Ruben, Sandro, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveBattle, antonis, +44.208.573.aabb, svillata, Yves, nmihindu, bblfish, 15:07:50 ... MHausenblas, cyrgi, krp_, BartvanLeeuwen, EricP, +1.617.838.aacc, Kalpa 15:07:50 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 15:07:58 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:07:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/22-ldp-minutes.html trackbot 15:07:59 RRSAgent, bye 15:07:59 I see no action items