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15:16:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/10-css-irc
15:16:07 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
15:16:07 <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 44 minutes
15:16:12 <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:57:04 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:57:10 <Zakim> +??P7
15:57:15 <glazou> Zakim, ??7 is me
15:57:15 <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '??7'
15:57:25 <glazou> Zakim, ??P7 is me
15:57:25 <Zakim> +glazou; got it
15:57:34 <lstorset> lstorset has joined #css
15:57:43 <Zakim> +lstorset
15:58:38 <Zakim> + +1.415.615.aaaa
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15:59:01 <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is rhauck 
15:59:21 <Zakim> +hober
15:59:25 <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
15:59:29 <Zakim> +krit
15:59:42 <Zakim> +arron
15:59:44 <Zakim> +Brian_Leroux
15:59:58 <rbetts> Zakim, Brian_Leroux is rbetts
16:00:03 <Zakim> +rbetts; got it
16:00:35 <tantek> good morning
16:00:38 <oyvind> oyvind has joined #css
16:00:45 <Zakim> +Stearns
16:00:49 <glazou> hi tantek 
16:01:52 <JohnJansen> JohnJansen has joined #CSS
16:01:55 <Zakim> +SylvaIng
16:02:16 <SimonSapin1> SimonSapin1 has joined #css
16:02:38 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:02:45 <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
16:02:45 <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
16:02:56 <antonp> antonp has joined #css
16:03:18 <Zakim> + +34.93.550.aabb
16:03:23 <Zakim> +??P50
16:03:25 <antonp> Zakim, aabb is me
16:03:25 <Zakim> +antonp; got it
16:03:32 <glazou> regrets: florian, dbaron, Chris, kenneth
16:03:35 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aacc
16:03:42 <glazou> Regrets: +Bert
16:03:42 <TabAtkins> zakim, aacc is me
16:03:42 <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
16:03:49 <Zakim> +SimonSapin
16:03:54 <Zakim> + +1.415.871.aadd
16:04:04 <tantek> zakim, aadd is tantek
16:04:05 <Zakim> +tantek; got it
16:04:07 <smfr> smfr has joined #css
16:04:10 <tantek> hello :)
16:04:17 <tantek> zakim, mute tantek
16:04:17 <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
16:04:44 <Zakim> +smfr
16:05:10 <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, lstorset, rhauck, hober, krit, arron, rbetts, Stearns, SylvaIng, [Microsoft], antonp, ??P50, TabAtkins, SimonSapin, tantek (muted), smfr
16:05:14 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
16:05:16 <glazou> Regrets: +plinss
16:05:49 <glazou> ok
16:05:52 <glazou> Regrets: +Lea
16:06:04 <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
16:06:36 <TabAtkins> glazou: First item, taking CSS3 Conditional to LC.
16:06:43 <Zakim> +SteveZ
16:07:38 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: A few weeks ago I put up a list of the last few issues in the Conditional draft.
16:07:50 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I resolved two of them, and the remaining two are just "punt stuff to level 4".
16:08:31 <Zakim> +fantasai
16:08:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:08:54 <koji> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
16:08:54 <Zakim> +koji; got it
16:09:05 <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: I had an issue about allowing functions int he grammar for future compat.
16:09:09 <glazou> sylvaing: LOL
16:09:14 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Done now, and dbaron approved it.  It's in the at-risk list.
16:09:48 <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Publish CSS3 Conditional as LCWD.
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16:10:12 <TabAtkins> fantasai: As part of this resolution, we're dropping the @import addition and @document to the next level?
16:10:15 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Yup.
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16:11:20 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Drop @document
16:11:39 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Defer issue on @import syntax for @supports queries
16:11:45 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0379.html
16:11:46 <TabAtkins> Topic: text-decoration
16:11:50 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I don't have a writeup yet.
16:11:54 <TabAtkins> glazou: So defer it again?
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16:12:01 <TabAtkins> smfr: I don't have feedback yet either.
16:12:03 <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012OctDec/0025.html
16:12:06 <TabAtkins> Topic: 'clip' property
16:12:19 <TabAtkins> krit: Should we combine 'clip' with the other clip/mask properties into the Masking spec?
16:12:43 <TabAtkins> krit: I think it makes sense to have them in one collection, and makes the merging of SVG and HTML easier with one description in one place.
16:13:03 <krit> Adding links:
16:13:04 <krit> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/masking.html#OverflowAndClipProperties
16:13:06 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accept functional notation in place of property-value support queries, treat unknown functions as false, all functions unknown in L1
16:13:10 <fantasai> s/L1/L3/
16:13:23 <krit> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/masking/index.html
16:15:12 <fantasai> ^ and mark that behavior at-risk
16:15:18 <TabAtkins> [discussion about priority of Masking]
16:15:32 <tantek> TabAtkins: don't need to worry about priority list unless we are worried about running out time in terms of things to talk about.
16:15:34 <TabAtkins> szilles: If it didn't go into Masking, where would you put an updated version?
16:16:27 <Zakim> -arron
16:16:37 <glazou> guys at MSFT , we still need YOUR answers so stop ranting :-D
16:16:41 <TabAtkins> rossen: Wasn't there discussion about moving 'clip' closer to the esclusion shapes?
16:16:57 <TabAtkins> krit: Yeah, there's an issue about using those shape functions.
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16:17:11 <tantek> lol
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16:17:14 <glazou> sylvaing: please _send_ it
16:17:54 <TabAtkins> rossen: I was just wondering if that might be a more natural place for it.
16:18:16 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I think that it makes the most sense for 'clip' to go in with the rest of Masking, though it will probably want to reference Shapes.
16:18:20 <TabAtkins> glazou: Any objection?
16:18:29 <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Put 'clip' into the Masking spec.
16:18:36 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0118.html
16:18:51 <TabAtkins> Topic: marker-side vs marker-direction
16:19:09 <TabAtkins> fantasai: Nothing to discuss about that yet.
16:19:11 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0173.html
16:19:17 <stearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0268.html
16:19:19 <TabAtkins> Topic: Circular dependencies between flows
16:19:25 <TabAtkins> stearns: I just sent a reply to the list about what to do.
16:19:36 <TabAtkins> stearns: The question is, when a circular reference occurs, what happens? 
16:19:41 <TabAtkins> stearns: And what to do when it happens.
16:19:46 <TabAtkins> stearns: So I suggest just avoiding them entirely.
16:20:08 <TabAtkins> stearns: If you have a circular reference, the entire cycle doesn't become regions.
16:20:22 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I agree - that's how I've dealt with other places where I have to track circular references.
16:20:39 <TabAtkins> antonp: What's the effect on the content forced into that flow?
16:21:05 <TabAtkins> stearns: If you ahve content using flow-to, and have a flow-from producing a circular ref, that flow-form is just ignored.
16:21:27 <TabAtkins> antonp: And if that's the only flow-from consuming that flow, it's just ignored, because it's piped into a flow that's never consumed.  That's expected behavior.
16:21:31 <TabAtkins> stearns: Yes.
16:21:47 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0163.html
16:21:53 <TabAtkins> Topic: baselines of inline-blocks
16:22:17 <TabAtkins> antonp: This was raised by someone saying there was a gap about the fact that css3 specs expect everything to have a baseline.
16:22:26 <TabAtkins> antonp: But 2.1 doesn't provide a baseline for some things, like blocks and tables.
16:22:57 <TabAtkins> antonp: To solve an issue specific to Flexbox, Tab put in a note in Flexbox specificying those.
16:23:03 <TabAtkins> antonp: But I think it's worthwhile to codify that.
16:23:14 <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/#flex-baselines
16:23:20 <TabAtkins> antonp: The proposal is that tables have baselines, but that doesn't contribute toward an inline-block's baseline.
16:23:35 <TabAtkins> antonp: So if a table is in an inline-block, the table doesn't contribute - it's skipped over during inline-block baseline determination.
16:24:05 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Yes, we need a reasonable baseline for other things, but for legacy reasons inline-blocks need to ignore them.
16:24:34 <TabAtkins> antonp: So Tab's basically saying, just, can we ignore the table's own baseline when determining the inline-block's baseline?
16:24:48 <TabAtkins> antonp: I think it's reasonable.  What do others think?
16:24:48 <Zakim> -SteveZ
16:25:33 <Zakim> +SteveZ
16:25:39 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I expect it'll need some more review, but we can at least put it somewhere normative and get it moving.
16:25:54 <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Accept the definitions for additional baselines ni the Flexbox spec.
16:26:06 <fantasai> for 2.1?
16:26:08 <TabAtkins> Topic: circular refs in regions
16:26:38 <TabAtkins> stearns: My proposal addresses the case where an element has the same flow in its flow-from and flow-to.  But it doesn't address cycles *between* elements.
16:27:24 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Unclear about how to detect circular references, or how to react to cycles once detected?
16:27:27 <TabAtkins> stearns: How to specify.
16:27:39 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I have an example already in Images 4 - look in element().  You can just copy that.
16:27:46 <TabAtkins> glazou: So how to respond?
16:28:00 <TabAtkins> stearns: [something that I missed about breaking one of the refs to avoid a cycle]
16:28:34 <TabAtkins> antonp: Is all of that something that can be calculated just from the style rules?  No layout needed?
16:28:45 <TabAtkins> stearns: Yes, it's all just looking at flow-to/from properties.
16:29:12 <tantek> reminder: TPAC coming up
16:29:44 <tantek> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tpac-2012
16:29:49 <TabAtkins> glazou: Reminder - sign up for TPAC - the fee goes up substantially soon.
16:29:53 <tantek> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/
16:29:57 <TabAtkins> glazou: Also, put topics up on the wiki for the call.
16:30:08 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I have a quick issue about i18n.
16:30:25 <TabAtkins> fantasai: They'd like to take over the @counter-style list beyond what we resolved to keep in Counter STyles.
16:30:51 <tantek> looks like a lot of folks are attending: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2012/registrants#CSS (member only link)
16:30:58 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I'm totally for this - it means someone who knows a lot more about me is taking care of these things.
16:31:09 <tantek> and getting something off your plate Tab!
16:31:12 <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Let i18n maintain the additional @counter-style rules.
16:31:34 <TabAtkins> fantasai: Also, they're meeting Thu/Fri. We should check if there are more topics to discuss with them than just case-sensitivity.
16:31:45 <TabAtkins> szilles: Would some of them be able to show up on Tuesday and be part of our discussion?
16:31:53 <TabAtkins> fantasai: Dunno.  But there will be some who are there earlier.
16:32:08 <TabAtkins> glazou: I'll ping the i18nWG and ask.
16:32:13 <Zakim> -antonp
16:32:22 <TabAtkins> fantasai: Another topic is, what's the status of TTA?  Progress? Issues to discuss?
16:32:54 <TabAtkins> smfr: Dirk and I briefly looked at the remaining Transforms issues.  We'll ahve a conf call with some people about them next week, so we'll hopefully have some issues to add to the agenda.
16:33:24 <TabAtkins> fantasai: Simon had an issue on the multicol module that we didn't address last week.
16:33:41 <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: I was working through a reply to Hakon, because he seems to have a response to some things that I didn't understand.
16:34:11 <TabAtkins> fantasai: On that topic, Tab and I spent yesterday writing out the intrinsic sizing definitions for multicol elements. This is significantly different from what Hakon thinks it should be, I think.
16:34:35 <TabAtkins> fantasai: dholbert brought up an example related to Flexbox, and that guided our ideas.
16:34:41 <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Do you think that should go in Sizing?
16:34:53 <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-sizing/#multicol-intrinsic
16:34:55 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think so, yeah - multicol is in CR.  Sizing is already taking other things from 2.1.
16:35:06 <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0017.html
16:35:26 <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0225.html
16:35:57 <TabAtkins> fantasai: The point is that there is no definition of these sizing things in Multicol, and the expectation that they size the same as a regular block element does not work.
16:36:13 <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: And if we just remove the lines from the multicol module, and define this in Sizing, this is fine with me.
16:36:20 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I agree with your suggested changes.
16:36:22 <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0226.html
16:36:44 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think we should resolve to take the changes that Simon suggested.
16:36:51 <TabAtkins> fantasai: We'd also need to change a couple of the terms in the algorithm.
16:36:58 <TabAtkins> glazou: Did Hakon have a chance to review this?
16:37:09 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: No, we just did it late yesterday.
16:37:20 <TabAtkins> glazou: I suggest we ask for feedback from Hakon.
16:37:26 <TabAtkins> fantasai: The changes are in the email I just linked to.
16:38:02 <Zakim> -SteveZ
16:38:03 <Zakim> -SylvaIng
16:38:03 <TabAtkins> glazou: Okay, out of topics. Call adjourned.
16:38:04 <Zakim> -glazou
16:38:04 <Zakim> -??P50
16:38:06 <Zakim> -rbetts
16:38:06 <Zakim> -rhauck
16:38:06 <Zakim> -smfr
16:38:08 <Zakim> -koji
16:38:11 <Zakim> -krit
16:38:13 <Zakim> -hober
16:38:15 <Zakim> -TabAtkins
16:38:16 <Zakim> -fantasai
16:38:19 <Zakim> -tantek
16:38:21 <Zakim> -SimonSapin
16:38:23 <Zakim> -Stearns
16:38:25 <Zakim> -lstorset
16:38:27 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:38:29 <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, lstorset, +1.415.615.aaaa, hober, rhauck, krit, arron, rbetts, Stearns, SylvaIng, JohnJansen, +34.93.550.aabb, antonp, +1.650.253.aacc, TabAtkins,
16:38:31 <Zakim> ... SimonSapin, +1.415.871.aadd, tantek, smfr, SteveZ, fantasai, koji
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17:55:42 <leaverou> krit: hober: krit1: I mean webplatform.org :)
17:55:56 <krit1> leaverou: ;)
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23:32:39 <stearns> I have an issue in CSS Regions on circular normative references - is it bad that CSS Regions refers to CSS Break which refers to CSS Regions?