14:58:01 RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt 14:58:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-irc 14:58:14 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0074.html 14:58:28 chair: felix 14:58:29 DomJones has joined #mlw-lt 14:59:36 present: daveL, naoto, fsasaki 15:00:26 gderiard has joined #mlw-lt 15:00:37 present+ giuseppe 15:01:14 leroy has joined #mlw-lt 15:01:18 Jirka has joined #mlw-lt 15:01:19 Milan has joined #mlw-lt 15:01:33 dF has joined #mlw-lt 15:02:02 present+ leroy, irka, milan, df 15:02:10 What are the dial in details? Did not find them in aganda.. 15:02:19 tadej has joined #mlw-lt 15:02:24 present+ dom 15:02:48 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Dial_in_info_for_regular_call 15:03:16 Yves_ has joined #mlw-lt 15:03:21 present+ yves 15:03:36 Thanks, Jirko 15:03:41 present+ tadej 15:03:52 Ankit has joined #mlw-lt 15:03:57 present+ ankit 15:04:43 present+ milan 15:05:02 Milan has joined #mlw-lt 15:05:21 scribe: Yves_ 15:05:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:06:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:06:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html Yves_ 15:06:27 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0074.html 15:06:38 topic: welcome naoto 15:07:01 Naoto: from Japan, living in Irland 15:07:11 .. work for CNGL at UL 15:07:40 .. working on MT-related aspect of localization process 15:07:53 .. quality of translation, etc. are of interest 15:08:20 topic: Work schedule 15:08:54 Felix: will publish in 22nd oc OCT 15:09:02 .. last edit on Oct-19 15:09:20 .. lot of travel before, let's see what we can do. 15:09:43 .. any new update for Provenance? 15:09:55 Dave: Phil sent me a new copy 15:10:00 .. will look at it 15:10:17 .. may need to adjust the example for tool reference 15:10:33 .. Phil and I will try to discuss that tomorrow 15:10:42 .. and post feedback to the list 15:10:52 Felix: so when ready? 15:11:00 Dave: maybe thursday 15:11:30 Felix: hopefuilly can do it before Seattle 15:11:39 Dave: indeed 15:12:21 ACTION: DaveL to coordinate with Phil and send new draft to the list by Thursday 15:12:21 Created ACTION-246 - Coordinate with Phil and send new draft to the list by Thursday [on David Lewis - due 2012-10-15]. 15:12:42 ACTION: Felix to put the provenance draft in spec before Seattle 15:12:42 Created ACTION-247 - Put the provenance draft in spec before Seattle [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-10-15]. 15:13:03 Felix: Disambiguation? 15:13:16 Tadej: working draft going around 15:13:29 .. Arle needs to look at the definitions 15:13:38 .. will circulate new version after 15:13:50 .. Dave wants to look at it too 15:13:54 Dave: yes 15:14:05 Tadej: I can ciculate current version 15:14:10 Felix: not needed 15:14:25 .. let's wait for the final draft 15:14:35 Felix: can we do that this week? 15:14:45 Tadej: yes, but may get updated 15:15:00 .. and there is the global tool reference to deal with 15:15:23 Felix: important to have those definition in darft 15:15:44 .. maybe we can deal with the tool reference afterward with editors 15:16:04 .. so we just need the next stable version 15:16:18 Tadej: then yes 15:16:36 .. For text analysis annotation things will depends on the tool reference 15:16:49 .. examples will be diferent 15:16:58 s/diferent/different/ 15:17:13 Dave: was trying to apply this to use cases 15:17:27 .. what about how to control Disambiguation? 15:17:28 present+ phil 15:17:50 .. we could have a lot of annotations, but even where we don't want them 15:18:07 .. but we can't control where 15:18:23 Tadej: Cocomore talked about this 15:18:41 .. because it wasn't important for use case 15:18:49 .. maybe a switch would be useful? 15:19:02 Dave: Ok, but maybe it's a best practice 15:19:10 .. suggest to discuiss this on the list 15:19:23 s/discuss/discuss/ 15:19:36 Tadej: switch make sense to expose 15:19:59 Dave: other things may be to concidered 15:20:14 tadej: sure, need examples then. Let's discuss it on the list 15:20:52 Felix: we are running out of time for new feature. 15:21:14 present+ shaun 15:21:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:21:27 Dave: Phil, quickly: have an action to work on Provance 15:21:30 meeting: MLW-LT WG 15:21:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:21:54 Felix: separation of HTML and XML 15:22:09 jirka has action 220 15:22:11 shaunm has joined #mlw-lt 15:22:34 .. HTML users have specific use cases to take into account 15:22:52 .. we may need the draft to be freeze to work on that 15:23:04 Jirka: working on the schema today 15:23:16 .. hope to have something by end of week 15:23:43 .. examples could stay there 15:24:07 .. idea is to specific the difference (notation, etc.) 15:24:32 ... case-sensitive or not between HTML or XML 15:24:56 .. such section will explain the differences 15:25:11 .. and the table with all the names will help 15:25:31 Felix: next week is fine too 15:25:46 Jirka: will try for this week. 15:26:15 Felix: next is text about Localization Implementers 15:26:30 philr has joined #mlw-lt 15:26:39 ACTION: Felix to put the Localization Implementer case in draft by end of the week 15:26:39 Created ACTION-248 - Put the Localization Implementer case in draft by end of the week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-10-15]. 15:26:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:26:59 Felix: will do the NIF section this week too 15:27:22 .. editorial notes: some reviews to follow up with 15:27:42 .. would be good to have co-editors to go through that 15:28:47 .. Shaun can you look at that? 15:28:51 Shaun: yes 15:29:06 Felix: will keep you up to date on the edits we do 15:29:23 topic: ISSUES 15:29:38 Felix: Empty string? 15:29:46 .. seems the outcome is decided 15:30:33 Shaun: then how do you override? 15:30:50 .. seems we have no default 15:31:05 Jirka: allowedCharacters="." 15:31:17 s/./.*/ 15:31:56 Yves: will add that to specs 15:32:15 "Domain in HTML5" 15:32:21 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0057.html 15:32:39 scribe: fsasaki 15:33:07 yves: problem was that in some cases we could point in some cases we could point to keyword list of domain 15:33:15 .. in some cases we point only to one domain value 15:33:20 .. need to separate that 15:33:35 .. idea is to provide the result of data category as a comma separated list 15:33:50 .. that is built from the result of XPath expressions 15:34:06 .. when you have different nodes of a single string, you do the same with a substring 15:34:25 .. felix wrote an algorithm, I did that as a pseudo code and implemented it 15:34:42 scribe: Yves_ 15:34:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0054.html 15:34:57 Felix: link is the pseudo code 15:35:01 "Get the list of nodes resulting ...." 15:35:05 .. there are some example too 15:35:33 .. take 2mn to look at it 15:36:35 .. any thoughts? 15:37:33 dF: should be working in XML 15:37:46 .. looking now the HTML case 15:38:19 .. not sure the issue of multiple keywords is resolved 15:38:34 Felix: idea here is to provide the list 15:39:02 yves: goal is to get list of values 15:39:06 .. not a single value 15:39:14 .. after that you add to it 15:39:30 david: domain should be one domain 15:39:39 yves: but in HTML you can have several of them 15:39:53 david: so are we happy with several keywords? 15:40:00 yves: you can map them to one values 15:40:13 felix: via domainMapping attribute 15:40:30 david: so there is a method to parse multiple keywords and link a mapping 15:40:37 .. so I can produce m:1 and m:n mapping 15:40:44 dF: ok, then I should be ok for n->1 or n->m mappings 15:41:01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0054.html 15:41:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0057.html 15:41:27 Felix: this email above has some examples 15:42:24 df: we can only reduce? 15:42:28 Felix: yes 15:43:13 df: no sure about this 15:43:40 .. seems that to be able to have several domain is a problem? 15:43:56 .. should we be able to set priority 15:44:16 Dave: we talked about this, Declan noted it wasn't really possible to specify that 15:44:33 .. difficult to have a set way to do this 15:44:54 .. there are not really good practices for this 15:45:22 Yeah, in MT, usually a document will belong to one domain.. 15:45:25 dF: there is an asymmetric aspect in the data category 15:45:38 .. we may need to do that for XML too 15:45:44 Felix: you can already 15:46:10 yves: you can point to the same type of keyowrds in xml too 15:46:17 .. if you want to have a list of separated values 15:46:59 felix: would have an xpath expression that would point to several nodes 15:47:02 dF: I see. 15:47:15 .. should we agree n->1 is the best practice? 15:47:28 .. m->n mapping complicate things 15:47:40 Felix: it depends on what you testing 15:47:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0057.html 15:48:16 .. see in example there where domainMapping is used 15:48:41 dF: see you can do conformance test 15:48:55 .. but business case may be more tricky 15:49:09 .. sevral domains may not be useable 15:49:21 Felix: so how to move forward? 15:49:45 dF: asking simply if the n->1 mapping is required 15:49:52 Pedro has joined #mlw-lt 15:50:14 present+ pedro 15:50:17 Dave: seems that it's more useful to know all domains than to redice them to one 15:50:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:50:36 .. reducing is fine, but using all is fine as well 15:50:58 .. mapping/reduction is complicated to do 15:51:13 .. not sure we can solve this on the ITS side 15:52:03 Naoto: from MT viewpoint having one domain is simpler 15:52:20 .. multiple doamins would be already in multiple documents 15:52:36 .. different domains = different models 15:53:03 dF: think you can specify multiple domain in the same document 15:53:26 Felix: should continue this discussion in list 15:54:13 dF: we are using domain 15:54:24 .. supporting multiple would be a big change 15:54:34 .. not sure we can be conformant than 15:54:54 Shaun: sounds like issue is where the data comes from 15:55:00 .. like HTML keywords 15:55:17 .. maybe that could be a best practice: primary set first 15:55:26 and then MT can just take the first one 15:55:39 Felix: sound like a good solution 15:56:09 .. best practice allows to use things like keywords then 15:56:25 .. but need more discussion probably 15:56:52 ACTION: Yves_ to add the Domain algorithm in draft asap 15:56:52 Sorry, couldn't find Yves_. You can review and register nicknames at . 15:56:58 ACTION: Yves to add the Domain algorithm in draft asap 15:56:58 Created ACTION-249 - Add the Domain algorithm in draft asap [on Yves Savourel - due 2012-10-15]. 15:57:27 Felix: any othe rtopic? 15:57:52 Phil: sent some question about toolRefs 15:58:16 .. could we talk about it Dave? on Wednesday call 15:58:19 Dave: yes 15:58:38 Felix: I can help if you want, let me know. 15:58:58 Phil: late morning tomorrow might work for me. 15:59:17 Pedro: two questions: 15:59:35 .. for unstable data categories: should we wait for implementation? 15:59:54 .. and other question: are ready for readiness 16:00:28 Felix: please focus on data categories that are important, even if not stable 16:01:02 .. for readiness, please go ahead 16:01:08 Milan has joined #mlw-lt 16:01:21 Dave: agree with felix 16:01:31 Pedro: ok 16:01:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:02:00 Felix: main call is done 16:02:05 DomJones has left #mlw-lt 16:05:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:05:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html Yves_ 16:27:15 Jirka, we lost you on gotomeeting, it seems 16:44:48 action: felix to make sure that the its20 draft says the right thing in sec. 1.1.1 about direcitonality and ruby - if we make them non-backward compatibly 16:44:48 Created ACTION-250 - Make sure that the its20 draft says the right thing in sec. 1.1.1 about direcitonality and ruby - if we make them non-backward compatibly [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-10-15]. 16:49:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Oct/0004.html 16:54:08 Jirka has joined #mlw-lt 16:58:45 Zakim has left #mlw-lt 17:15:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 17:52:15 Fredrik has joined #mlw-lt 18:26:58 Jirka has left #mlw-lt