13:55:09 RRSAgent has joined #gld 13:55:09 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-gld-irc 13:55:11 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:55:11 Zakim has joined #gld 13:55:13 Zakim, this will be GLD 13:55:13 ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 13:55:14 Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference 13:55:14 Date: 04 October 2012 13:55:44 AGENDA: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20121004 13:56:14 Chair: George 13:56:43 T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started 13:56:49 + +1.518.276.aaaa 13:57:04 Zakim, aaaa is me. 13:57:04 +olyerickson; got it 13:57:25 +??P4 13:57:29 jmynarz has joined #gld 13:57:34 -??P4 13:57:48 DaveReynolds has joined #gld 13:57:48 + +91.80.67.84.aabb 13:58:42 hello all, i'm new to the WG. @Zakim, are you having the bot call participants, or authorizing certain numbers to call in? 13:59:05 boris has joined #gld 13:59:08 +George_Thomas 14:00:01 + +33.4.93.00.aacc 14:00:04 +??P16 14:00:24 +[IPcaller] 14:00:31 danbri has joined #gld 14:00:36 + +34.91.336.aadd 14:00:43 +davidwood 14:00:52 zakim, aadd is me 14:00:53 +boris; got it 14:01:08 +Sandro 14:01:09 PhilA2 has joined #gld 14:01:21 good day all 14:01:21 Zakim, who is here? 14:01:24 On the phone I see olyerickson, +91.80.67.84.aabb, George_Thomas, +33.4.93.00.aacc, ??P16, DaveReynolds, boris, davidwood, Sandro 14:01:29 On IRC I see PhilA2, danbri, boris, DaveReynolds, jmynarz, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, olyerickson, gatemezi, George, james, agipap, MacTed, trackbot, sandro 14:01:43 martinAlvarez has joined #gld 14:01:48 Biplav has joined #gld 14:01:50 BartvanLeeuwen has joined #gld 14:02:13 james_ has joined #gld 14:02:36 +??P35 14:02:38 Zakim, who is here? 14:02:43 zakim, ??p35 is me 14:02:49 On the phone I see olyerickson, +91.80.67.84.aabb, George_Thomas, +33.4.93.00.aacc, ??P16, DaveReynolds, boris, davidwood, Sandro, ??P35 14:02:58 +[IPcaller] 14:03:05 +martinAlvarez; got it 14:03:08 +??P33 14:03:14 zakim, who is talking? 14:03:14 zakim, who is talking? 14:03:14 zakim, mute me 14:03:16 On IRC I see james_, BartvanLeeuwen, Biplav, martinAlvarez, PhilA2, danbri, boris, DaveReynolds, jmynarz, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, olyerickson, gatemezi, George, james, agipap, 14:03:19 ouch!! 14:03:20 Zakim, ??P33 is me 14:03:21 ... MacTed, trackbot, sandro 14:03:28 +??P39 14:03:41 martinAlvarez should now be muted 14:03:43 -[IPcaller] 14:03:49 +BartvanLeeuwen; got it 14:03:53 sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olyerickson (15%), +33.4.93.00.aacc (77%), ??P39 (83%) 14:04:07 -??P39 14:04:08 zakim, drop aacc 14:04:12 bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olyerickson (37%), George_Thomas (19%), davidwood (15%), Sandro (49%) 14:04:20 zakim, davidwood is me 14:04:31 - +33.4.93.00.aacc 14:04:34 zakim, who is on the call? 14:04:43 +[IPcaller] 14:04:45 sorry, sandro, I do not see a party named 'aacc' 14:04:57 +bhyland; got it 14:05:01 On the phone I see olyerickson, +91.80.67.84.aabb, George_Thomas, ??P16, DaveReynolds, boris, bhyland, Sandro, martinAlvarez (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, [IPcaller] 14:05:25 Zakim, ??P39 is me 14:05:25 I already had ??P39 as Mike, james 14:05:40 Hi all. 14:05:48 zakim, +91.80.67.84.aabb is me 14:05:51 +Biplav; got it 14:06:11 +[IPcaller.a] 14:06:24 zakim, IPcaller.a is me 14:06:24 +PhilA2; got it 14:06:30 HadleyBeeman has joined #gld 14:06:47 Zakim, IPcaller is james 14:06:47 +james; got it 14:07:07 queue= 14:07:10 + +1.440.389.aaee 14:07:18 OpenNorth: http://opennorth.ca/ 14:07:27 zakim, aaee is me 14:07:28 +HadleyBeeman; got it 14:07:31 not yet, PhilA2 14:07:38 Welcome James - Exec Dir of OpenNorth 14:07:38 Topic: Noob Intros 14:07:50 Welcome James, thanks for joining. 14:07:53 + +33.4.93.00.aaff 14:08:09 zakim, drop aaff 14:08:09 +33.4.93.00.aaff is being disconnected 14:08:10 - +33.4.93.00.aaff 14:09:06 Zakim, please armor me against scribe roulette 14:09:06 I don't understand 'please armor me against scribe roulette', olyerickson 14:09:16 zakim, pick a victim 14:09:16 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose olyerickson 14:09:23 PMSL 14:09:24 I'll do it 14:09:41 scribe: HadleyBeeman 14:10:01 + +33.4.93.00.aagg 14:10:02 I can volunteer as well for future. 14:10:06 Topic: welcome 14:10:17 zakim, drop aagg 14:10:17 +33.4.93.00.aagg is being disconnected 14:10:18 - +33.4.93.00.aagg 14:10:23 zakim, who is on the call 14:10:23 I don't understand 'who is on the call', bhyland 14:10:39 zakim, you are too d*&^ picky! 14:10:39 I don't understand 'you are too d*&^ picky!', bhyland 14:10:45 zakim, who is on the call? 14:10:45 On the phone I see olyerickson, Biplav, George_Thomas, ??P16, DaveReynolds, boris, bhyland, Sandro, martinAlvarez (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, james, PhilA2, HadleyBeeman 14:11:35 agipap: ? 14:11:37 gatemezi, is that you dialing in and ending us with us put on hold hearing french music? 14:11:41 Are you there? 14:11:42 @Ghislain, we drop you because we're getting interrupted with lengthy intro and music from your lovely French operator. 14:11:54 Topic: accepting last week's minutes 14:11:59 Abstains... 14:12:01 +1 14:12:07 hello all! agipap as usual has problems with the SIP configuration:-) 14:12:10 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-09-27 Last week's minutes 14:12:11 q+ 14:12:47 ack bhyland 14:12:58 BenediktKaempgen has joined #gld 14:13:07 Zakim, ??P16 is me 14:13:07 +jmynarz; got it 14:13:13 q+ 14:13:32 ack phila2 14:13:47 bhyland: As I recall, last week we decided not to do Geo, but I don't see that recorded in the minutes. 14:13:54 + +49.721.aahh 14:14:23 PhilA2: I'd rather if we said "not now" instead of "we're never going to do it" 14:14:23 q? 14:14:24 phila2: we decided not to NEVER do anything with location, but for the time being not to. Note the existence of the community group that is working on it. 14:14:32 zakim, who is here 14:14:32 BenediktKaempgen, you need to end that query with '?' 14:14:37 zakim, who is here? 14:14:37 On the phone I see olyerickson, Biplav, George_Thomas, jmynarz, DaveReynolds, boris, bhyland, Sandro, martinAlvarez (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, james, PhilA2, HadleyBeeman, 14:14:40 ... +49.721.aahh 14:14:40 On IRC I see BenediktKaempgen, HadleyBeeman, james, BartvanLeeuwen, Biplav, martinAlvarez, PhilA2, danbri, boris, DaveReynolds, jmynarz, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, olyerickson, 14:14:42 ... gatemezi, George, agipap, MacTed, trackbot, sandro 14:14:53 s/with location/with people/ 14:14:54 zakim, aahh is BenediktKaempgen 14:14:54 +BenediktKaempgen; got it 14:15:08 Proposed: We acknowledge that Geography and Spatial Vocab is listed as optional on the charter. There was some initial work on a wiki page but the volunteers have since ceased attending the GLD WG. 14:15:25 bhyland: We acknowledge that Geo is listed as optional in the charter. There was some initial work, on a wiki page, but the volunteers are not longer participating, and we acknowledge that we're not going to get to it within the charter timeframe. 14:15:32 +1 14:15:54 With that noted, I +1 last week's minutes 14:16:38 @bhyland: You mean the initial volunteers? because there still volunteers for Geo Vocab in the group 14:16:43 Topic: RADion 14:16:48 PhilA2: There was a suggestion on the mailing list that proposed the working group not take on RADion as a work item. 14:16:48 tinagheen has joined #gld 14:17:09 ... If it exists elsewhere, the group will note its existence. 14:17:17 +1 14:17:18 +[LC] 14:17:30 Zakim, [LC] is me 14:17:30 +tinagheen; got it 14:17:42 +1 to accept last week's minute 14:18:02 -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/adms/index.html new version 14:18:09 gatemezi, are you suggesting that the group has the time/energy/staff for doing a geo vocab? if so, that's worth talking over with the chairs. 14:18:18 PHilA2: Spent some time on ADMS (Gofran is co-editor on that). When the chair designates, we can take it to first public working draft 14:18:21 s/new version/new version of ADMS/ 14:18:40 Co-editor of ADMS is Gofran 14:19:19 Last week's meeting announced that Gofran Shukair of DERI, NUIG will be co-editor of ADMS, the latest editor's draft of which is at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/adms/index.html 14:19:24 DaveReynolds: There was one area of ORG added in response to Bart's suggestions several months ago. Doc polished, ready to review. Sent out last week. 14:20:19 …Cygri has done a detailed review, made editorial suggestions. More work than expected for today. Will sort that over the weekend for last-call vote early next week. 14:20:46 s/for last-call vote/for review in advance of last-call vote 14:20:52 agipap has left #gld 14:21:10 Bhyland: why a possible restructure? 14:21:10 agipap has joined #gld 14:21:10 q+ 14:21:39 DaveReynolds: Possibly reorganise vocab references and materials to be at the end. 14:22:10 Bhyland: Is there precedent here we can follow? 14:22:43 DaveReynolds: This is a preference, but not an unreasonable one. That's a normal way to do it. I like to see it intermixed myself. 14:23:16 Bhyland: I think it's well-structured as it is. I'd hate to see you have to do a lot of work at this point. 14:24:02 I agree there is no "definitive style" for vocabularies. +1 to Dave retaining the structure that has worked for this well-used ontology to date 14:24:08 DaveReynolds: Cygri has said this may not be a critical thing. I'll spend a bit of time looking at it to get a sense of how much work it would be and still be coherent. 14:24:34 +1 to bhyland point of not having too much work to reorganize ORG 14:24:42 Sounds like cygri has made a suggestion on non-critical re-structuring that DaveReynolds is not opposed to... 14:25:20 George: That sounds like a good approach. Mhausenblas also volunteered to review it. Health.data.gov may also be relevant, using ORG already. 14:25:26 ack phila2 14:25:31 ack phila 14:25:34 @DaveReynolds, I leave it to your judgement. For the record, I think it is well structured & readable as structured but if you're happy enough to make changes, thank you. 14:26:00 phila: There is no rule book on how to set out a vocabulary, so I'm happy to see flexibility on this. No need to conform with a standard that doesn't exist. 14:26:05 ack bartvanleeuwen 14:26:13 s/Mhausenblas/mhausenblas 14:26:55 bartvanleeuwen: we had a 2-day meeting with the source of my changes. We were able to model everything we wanted to with the ORG ontology 14:27:15 George: we should close action 78 as completed. 79 we'll leave for the additional work 14:27:48 davereynolds: re issue 35… should we close that as well? Bartsvanleeuwen was the test-case for that, so if he's able to address that, then we're set. 14:28:13 @HadleyBeaman … do you know how to close issues? I can do if you like 14:28:17 … The question of OPMV and ProvO: 14:29:13 … Use case: Where two companies are merging, or a new company is created. Change history. We use the OPMV vocabulary for that. 14:29:17 @Hadley, done. Recorded: closed: "Addressed and Bart has been successful in using ORG to satisfy his the noted cases.? 14:29:24 s/?/" 14:29:59 q? 14:30:10 … Provenance working group has produced Prov-O. Names are different, but the structure is the same. Question for us: can we switch vocabularies. Issues: timescales between the two working groups, and the existing uses in the wild. 14:30:34 OPMV: http://open-biomed.sourceforge.net/opmv/ns.html 14:30:55 … Not aware of anyone dependent on the vocabulary as it is. At some point, there may be a mapping between OPMV and PROV-O. 14:31:11 … If anyone can identify a problem here, now is a good time to bring it up 14:31:28 zakim, who is talking? 14:31:38 sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: George_Thomas (4%), DaveReynolds (80%) 14:31:47 zakim, who is on the call 14:31:47 I don't understand 'who is on the call', bhyland 14:31:54 zakim, who is on the call? 14:31:54 On the phone I see olyerickson, Biplav, George_Thomas, jmynarz, DaveReynolds, boris, bhyland, Sandro, martinAlvarez (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, james, PhilA2, HadleyBeeman, 14:31:58 ... BenediktKaempgen, tinagheen 14:32:00 … We need a formal reference to Prov-O in document, and then to update the ontology to reflect that. 14:32:13 s/we need/we would need 14:32:36 sandro: Is the term part of ORG, or a sub-class kind of thing? 14:32:58 davereynolds: Sub-class. Suggests other terms from that vocabulary that could be used. 14:33:10 q? 14:33:35 Sandro: if it were just the vocabulary, I was wondering about sub-classing both of them. 14:34:08 davereynolds: That would be reasonable. We still need to satisfy the Prov-O piece. Still need to reference that in the formal document. 14:34:38 Sandro: Just want to make sure we aren't causing problems for anyone already using OPMV 14:35:04 … ORG uses everything in its own namespace. Why is this a sub-class rather than just using the other term? 14:35:15 q+ To raise a separate issue (i.e. when the Prov discussion is done) 14:35:16 davereynolds: because it's actually a specialisation. 14:36:51 sandro: We could put this part "at risk". Prov-O is moving along pretty well now. 14:37:02 davereynolds: How to designate this? Editorial notes: a change in the vocabulary intended to be backward compatible? 14:37:17 sandro: A usage note or something like that. A list of changes in the appendix? 14:37:32 Davereynolds: for last-call document, are we allowed editorial notes? 14:37:37 Could some one putting the link to the actual rdf file of the Prov-O ontology? 14:37:42 sandro: I'm thinking of a style of note that would even proceed into recomendation 14:37:52 (For background, if you flag a feature as being 'At Risk' it means that you can take it out after LC (although IIRC not at CR) 14:38:19 ack phila 14:38:19 PhilA, you wanted to raise a separate issue (i.e. when the Prov discussion is done) 14:38:56 For the record: The specific section we were discussing was 10.1 Class: ChangeEvent http://bit.ly/QJy1AS 14:39:16 pHilA: concept of an identifier: handled differently in ORG than in OPMV. 14:40:39 PHilA: There are distinct bits of data about the identifier in ADMS — different to ORG. Don't want to mess around with ORG, but we need to recognise that we have 2 other work items that refer to this identifier concept and we need to make sure they don't clash 14:40:52 @Hadley, should I also close ISSUE-36 re: RADion as I see status is set to "Raised" but I think should go to "Closed" based on earlier discussion … did I understand that correctly?? 14:41:07 @Hadley, see http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/36 14:42:11 -> The ADMS notion of a 'code' which includes the concept of an 'Identifier' 14:42:14 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/adms/index.html#data-types 14:42:14 Curious what the proposed PROV-O equivalent of "opmv:Process" is http://open-biomed.sourceforge.net/opmv/ns.html#Process 14:42:24 daveryenolds: Option 1: Change ORG to make identifier a resource value as well as a typed value. Option 2: create another one in ORG. Option 3: Leave this in place. In doing legal entity, you'll define an interment rule. 14:43:40 davereynolds: that needs to be resolved before we vote on last call 14:44:08 -james 14:44:38 See: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/static.html#property--identifier 14:45:07 +??P17 14:45:25 james has joined #gld 14:45:46 Q: Could we have a side-by-side comparison? 14:45:55 davereynolds and PhilA are working out where conflicting recommendations to use SKOS notation in ADMS and ORG come up (with regard to identifiers) 14:46:19 q? 14:46:58 Proposal: Can we have a side-by-side comparison?? 14:47:10 ACTION: PHilA and DaveReynolds to sort out this issue off-line 14:47:10 Created ACTION-80 - And DaveReynolds to sort out this issue off-line [on Phil Archer - due 2012-10-11]. 14:48:21 s/PhilA/PhilA2 14:48:27 Topic: RADion 14:48:34 zakim, ??P17 is me 14:48:34 +james; got it 14:49:10 -> Richard's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2012Sep/0064.html 14:50:02 @olyerickson PROV-O equivalent of "opmv:Process" probably is prov:Activity 14:50:16 PhilA: To clarify, RADion is mostly an abstract way to think of things like software forges and data catalogues. Anywhere you have lots of assets collected in a category or repository. 14:50:34 …You'd subclass it, as DCAT does. You'd rarely use it directly. 14:51:22 … Cygri is saying fine, it's there. We don't have to think about it, except in seeing sublcasses (like DCAT and ADMS). We could decide to accept that and not discuss RADion again 14:51:38 +1 14:51:41 +1 14:51:41 bhyland: Agreed, we are closing Issue 36? 14:51:45 +0 14:52:51 +1 14:52:54 +??P37 14:53:09 s/PhilA/PhilA2 14:53:13 davereynolds: Not opposing to close it, but the implication of this discussion is that we accept the conclusion that DCAT is a subclass… I wouldn't vote for it, but I"m not against it. I abstain 14:53:20 q? 14:53:32 q- 14:53:38 ack ??P17 14:54:14 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The WG resolves that RADion is *not* a GLD-WG product. If the RADion editor makes a credible assertion that he is going to publish the RADion namespace document regardless through some other venue (SWIG, community group, Just Ask the Webmaster, ?), then GLD-WG will include mappings to RADion in the DCAT and ADMS RDFS files. and close Issue-36 14:54:25 Resolved to CLOSE ISSUE-36. RADion will not be further pursued. 14:54:28 -??P37 14:54:32 +1 14:54:41 RESOLVED: CLOSE ISSUE-36. RADion will not be further pursued. 14:55:12 +1 14:55:31 Topic: The larger ISA programme 14:56:14 PhilA: Lots here, little time. There was an agreement between Jeff Jaffe and the European Commission (with George, Bernadette, Sandro, Thomas and Phil) to take on some of these items that are coming from the EC work. 14:56:23 zakim, who is speaking? 14:56:34 gatemezi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: PhilA2 (30%) 14:57:01 s/PhilA/PhilA2 14:57:13 s/to take on some of these items/to review the ISA Programme Vocabs for possible RECOMMENDATION track status. 14:57:19 PHilA: I'm trying to take the group along in our discussions (including the one we just had about RADion). The ADMS spec is something we can take to first public working draft — but we need the group to buy in first. 14:57:40 PhilA: The EC has emailed us to express displeasure with our lack of expediency. 14:58:12 PhilA: Some things are easy to handle. We haven't published the Location Core Vocabulary because there is a community group to deal with that. Chair should be set today. 14:58:23 PhilA: Some things just aren't a priority. Not in use. 14:58:43 … The legal entity one is active and implemented. There is demand. 14:58:56 q+ 14:59:06 … We haven't yet, in this group, brought this work into W3C space yet because we've been doing other things. It's time. 14:59:42 bhyland: Are there any people who could augment this activity either direct with ISA or complementary, because we're short on time on this? Are there 1-2 other reviewers outside the working group we could get to help? 15:00:13 HadleyBeeman: Note that I updated ACTION-80 to better reflect what is being asked... 15:00:22 PhilA2: I would say that everything that was produced and handed over was done by a working group, just not THIS working group. 15:00:48 … The Commission is not putting pressure on individuals, but it is on the W3C. 15:01:18 George: Phil, Sandro, Bernadette and I will discuss this more next week. We'll see what we can do to progress this. 15:01:32 At the end of the day, we did agree to *review it* and we agreed 9 months ago. I feel we owe a thorough review & indication as to whether this is "on our plate" or decidedly "off our plate" (which would be very unfortunate). 15:01:46 Zakim, choose a chairperson... 15:01:46 I don't understand 'choose a chairperson', olyerickson 15:01:57 bye 15:01:58 -martinAlvarez 15:01:59 Thanks 15:02:02 -Sandro 15:02:06 -HadleyBeeman 15:02:08 -olyerickson 15:02:08 @PhilA, do you have a minute for a call? 15:02:10 -PhilA2 15:02:10 olyerickson has left #gld 15:02:14 -bhyland 15:02:18 -james 15:02:24 -tinagheen 15:02:25 -BenediktKaempgen 15:02:27 -BartvanLeeuwen 15:02:27 Chair: George 15:02:31 -DaveReynolds 15:02:33 @phil, skype? 15:02:35 -boris 15:02:36 jmynarz has left #gld 15:02:42 -George_Thomas 15:02:49 -jmynarz 15:02:51 -Biplav 15:02:53 T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended 15:02:54 Thanks, all! 15:02:55 Attendees were +1.518.276.aaaa, olyerickson, George_Thomas, +33.4.93.00.aacc, DaveReynolds, +34.91.336.aadd, boris, Sandro, martinAlvarez, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, Biplav, PhilA2, 15:02:58 ... james, +1.440.389.aaee, HadleyBeeman, +33.4.93.00.aaff, +33.4.93.00.aagg, jmynarz, +49.721.aahh, BenediktKaempgen, tinagheen 15:03:00 rrsagent, make records public 15:03:05 DaveReynolds has left #gld 15:03:12 james has left #gld 15:03:14 agipap has left #gld 15:03:20 martinAlvarez has left #gld 15:03:30 Should I clean up the minutes, or is there someone else who wants to do that? 15:04:24 Thanks, PhilA2. I don't think I can access that part of the wiki… not sure why :( 15:06:09 rrsagent, please publish the minutes 15:06:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-gld-minutes.html HadleyBeeman 15:41:00 PhilA2 has left #gld 17:10:14 MacTed has joined #gld 17:18:51 Zakim has left #gld 17:40:44 danbri has joined #gld