13:59:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/27-tt-irc
13:59:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
13:59:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:59:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:59:38 <trackbot> Date: 27 September 2012
14:01:34 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:02:34 <plh> Present+ Pierre
14:02:38 <plh> Present+ Michael
14:02:40 <plh> Present+ Frans
14:02:46 <plh> Present+ Plh
14:02:53 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:03:12 <plh> Present+ Monica
14:03:36 <plh> Present+ Thomas
14:04:21 <mijordan> mijordan has joined #tt
14:04:30 <plh> Present+ MichaelJordan
14:04:33 <Tbause> Tbause has joined #tt
14:04:58 <mmartin3> mmartin3 has joined #tt
14:05:20 <mmartin3> invite zakim, #tt
14:05:41 <plh> Chair: plh
14:05:50 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
14:05:50 <Zakim> sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
14:06:03 <mmartin3> scribe: mmartin3
14:06:18 <mmartin3> Topic: Meeting Sept 21
14:06:22 <plh> Agenda+  Action 85 Update abstract
14:06:22 <plh> Agenda+  Action 96 Conformance reference update
14:06:22 <plh> Agenda+  Action 97 fontSize Note
14:06:22 <plh> Agenda+  Action 100 Editorial changes
14:06:22 <plh> Agenda+  Action 101 Player dependent code points
14:06:23 <plh> Agenda+  Action 103 Delete R0020 and add text
14:06:25 <mmartin3> mmartin3: No meeting Sept 21.
14:06:26 <plh> Agenda+  Action 89 Reference TTML 1.0 SE
14:06:34 <plh> Agenda+  Issue 181 On example using #rrggbbaa. 
14:06:34 <plh> Agenda+  Issue 182 Use of ttp:profile
14:06:34 <plh> Agenda+  Issue 183, semantics of profile in TTML 1.0
14:06:36 <plh> Agenda+  Issue 185 Player vs. processor
14:06:37 <plh> Agenda+  Issue 186 SHALL vs. MUST
14:06:39 <plh> Agenda+  Issue 177 Processing semantics
14:06:54 <plh> action-85?
14:06:54 <trackbot> ACTION-85 -- Glenn Adams to update Simple Online Delivery Profile Abstract Section -- due 2012-08-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:06:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/85
14:07:21 <plh> Monica: the proposal has been integrated in the profile spec
14:08:05 <mmartin3> glenn changed here http://www.w3.org/mid/CACQ%253Dj%252Bcfz4xO4%253D3rmm4Dd1nEMgajiwHK1Aay5Vy15duYif%253DDnA%2540mail.gmail.com
14:08:09 <plh> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html#abstract
14:08:35 <plh> Resolved: change is approved.
14:08:41 <plh> close action-85
14:08:45 <trackbot> ACTION-85 Update Simple Online Delivery Profile Abstract Section closed
14:08:50 <plh> action-96?
14:08:50 <trackbot> ACTION-96 -- Glenn Adams to add reference in Section 3.2.1 to Close Issue-177. -- due 2012-09-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:08:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/96
14:10:51 <mmartin3> phone dropped
14:12:10 <plh> Resolved: reference has been added
14:12:15 <plh> close action-96
14:12:15 <trackbot> ACTION-96 Add reference in Section 3.2.1 to Close Issue-177. closed
14:12:30 <plh> Mike: what's the resolution for issue-177?
14:12:45 <plh> Monica: we added a statement in ttml 1.0
14:12:52 <plh> ... not sure if it was added into the spec
14:13:42 <plh> ... it's missing
14:13:52 <plh> plh: I reopened action-96
14:14:02 <plh> action-97?
14:14:02 <trackbot> ACTION-97 -- Glenn Adams to add note to section 6.6.2 to ttml 1.0 section to give guidance. -- due 2012-09-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:14:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/97
14:14:58 <plh> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html#constraints-10
14:15:24 <plh> Mike: yep, it's there: "If a specific fontSize is not supported, then, follow the semantics for a presentation processor defined in [TTML10], Section 8.2.9."
14:15:30 <plh> close action-97
14:15:30 <trackbot> ACTION-97 Add note to section 6.6.2 to ttml 1.0 section to give guidance. closed
14:15:43 <plh> action-100?
14:15:43 <trackbot> ACTION-100 -- Glenn Adams to implement changes requested with the actions identified for SDP-US FPWD. -- due 2012-09-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:15:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/100
14:16:17 <plh> Monica: I'm happy with the changes
14:16:35 <plh> Mike: last meeting, we needed further clarification. did we create the actions?
14:16:42 <plh> Monica: yes, I believe
14:17:14 <plh> action-103?
14:17:14 <trackbot> ACTION-103 -- Glenn Adams to delete R0020 and add introductory text about these styles with descriptions for Section 6.4.2. -- due 2012-09-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:17:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/103
14:17:17 <plh> action-102?
14:17:17 <trackbot> ACTION-102 -- Glenn Adams to make changes in Section 8.1.2 as specified http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Sep/0040.html -- due 2012-09-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:17:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/102
14:17:34 <plh> action-98?
14:17:34 <trackbot> ACTION-98 -- Monica Martin to revise proposal Section 7.1.1 on Active Regions -- due 2012-09-20 -- OPEN
14:17:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/98
14:17:45 <plh> action-104?
14:17:45 <trackbot> ACTION-104 -- Sean Hayes to investigate how this is handled in TTML 1.0. re: Issue-180 on values inside the root container. -- due 2012-09-27 -- OPEN
14:17:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/104
14:17:47 <plh> action-105?
14:17:47 <trackbot> ACTION-105 -- Mike Dolan to propose requirement to constrain to the root container in SDP-US (see Action-104 and Issue-180). -- due 2012-09-27 -- OPEN
14:17:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/105
14:18:06 <plh> close action-100
14:18:06 <trackbot> ACTION-100 Implement changes requested with the actions identified for SDP-US FPWD. closed
14:19:44 <plh> action-101?
14:19:44 <trackbot> ACTION-101 -- Glenn Adams to revise proposal for Action-82 for the Note to reflect: Should reflect semantics suggested in Unicode but the actual symbol is player dependent. -- due 2012-09-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:19:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/101
14:20:27 <plh> Plh: Glenn needs clarification
14:20:34 <plh> Monica: I'll follow up with him
14:20:39 <plh> action-103?
14:20:39 <trackbot> ACTION-103 -- Glenn Adams to delete R0020 and add introductory text about these styles with descriptions for Section 6.4.2. -- due 2012-09-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:20:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/103
14:21:17 <plh> Monica: r0020 indicated that a processor must support popup but that's not part of ttml 1.0
14:21:23 <plh> ... we deleted the requirement
14:21:40 <plh> ... we added a description on how the text display instead
14:22:20 <plh> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html#constraints-8
14:23:06 <plh> Mike: there was a normative requirement for rollup region but there is no way for the processor to know that.
14:23:14 <plh> ... it appears it has been addressed
14:23:50 <plh> Pierre: John Birch raised a question for support paint on and roll on
14:24:07 <plh> ... he seems to have an opinion on it
14:24:16 <plh> ... hoping to have his thoughts on this
14:24:45 <plh> --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Sep/0067.html John's message
14:25:03 <plh> Pierre: I don't think there is anyway for the device to know what's the region is
14:25:08 <plh> ... it's all emulated
14:25:13 <plh> ... using a sequence of sets
14:26:28 <plh> Monica: one option is to describe that the way the text is displayed is supported in a descriptive way
14:26:39 <plh> ... it may understand the flow of the text
14:27:13 <plh> Pierre: looking at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html#examples
14:27:24 <plh> ... is it equivalent to a roll-up style?
14:27:33 <plh> Monica: yes, we have examples in the spec
14:27:49 <plh> Pierre: so one can emulate roll-up using ttml 1.0 features?
14:27:56 <plh> Monica: yes
14:27:56 <mmartin3> You can emulate.
14:28:19 <plh> Courtney: is there a way to animate the roll-up?
14:28:48 <plh> Mike: in the roll-up example, it's a whole series of floated text, without an animation
14:28:53 <mmartin3> mike: Confusion about animating these three types.
14:29:30 <plh> ... this needs some general clarification
14:29:38 <plh> ... in TTML 1.0
14:29:55 <plh> ... looking at example 5, I don't see how that scrolls at all
14:30:14 <plh> Pierre: we'll need to discuss this further
14:30:17 <mmartin3> pal: Leave open to clarify.
14:30:32 <mmartin3> mike: Regions do not scroll.
14:31:01 <plh> plh: let's revisit this next week with Sean around?
14:31:30 <Frans> Have to leave as announced - thank you.
14:31:44 <mmartin3> Mike: Do we need a statement on emulating by the author.
14:31:47 <plh> Mike: the original issue is resolved, but there is a more general concern whether roll-up works and if there is a general processor requirement. there should be a sentence indicating that this is emulating by the author
14:32:05 <plh> action-89?
14:32:05 <trackbot> ACTION-89 -- Glenn Adams to add TTML 1.0 Second Edition reference. -- due 2012-09-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:32:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/89
14:32:23 <plh> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html#references
14:33:37 <plh> Monica: peharps we should consider referencing ttml 1.0 normative and reference the second edition as informative
14:34:02 <mmartin3> plh: SDP is for a Working Group Note.
14:34:26 <mmartin3> mike: SDP note will mention an unapproved second edition.
14:34:38 <mmartin3> ...Process to advance Second Edition?
14:35:16 <mmartin3> plh: If changes not substantive, no Last Call is needed.
14:35:36 <mmartin3> Mike: We need to resolve Second Edition question next week and resolve in SDP then.
14:35:39 <mmartin3> Leave Action open.
14:35:53 <mmartin3> plh: Leave Action open.
14:35:59 <plh> issue-181?
14:35:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-181 -- Background color and color have "named colors" but should be expressed in #rrggbbaa format only. -- open
14:35:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/181
14:36:29 <plh> Monica: question raised by Andreas, has been integrated in the spec
14:36:41 <plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Aug/0043.html
14:37:33 <mmartin3> See:  s:color="#ffffffff"  in example 3.
14:38:43 <mmartin3> Action: Monica Clarify references to named colors and align to TTML 1.0.
14:38:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-107 - Clarify references to named colors and align to TTML 1.0. [on Monica Martin - due 2012-10-04].
14:39:09 <mmartin3> Link to color values needs to be correct.
14:39:11 <plh> close issue-181
14:39:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-181 Background color and color have "named colors" but should be expressed in #rrggbbaa format only. closed
14:39:30 <plh> issue-182?
14:39:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-182 -- Allow more than one profile to be used in the SDP-US. Add use of ttp:profile element. -- raised
14:39:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/182
14:40:04 <plh> Monica: should use the ttp:profile element
14:41:19 <mmartin3> Related to Issue-183.
14:41:39 <mmartin3> mike: Can't fix if we don't fix TTML 1.0.
14:42:00 <mmartin3> Confusion signal to presentation processor vs. authoring.
14:42:10 <mmartin3> SDP is the former conceivably.
14:42:56 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Spec does allow this interpretation.
14:43:15 <mmartin3> mike: Speaks to Issue-183 comments.
14:43:45 <mmartin3> Declare conformance to the document.
14:44:56 <plh> issue-183?
14:44:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-183 -- semantics of using profile in a document -- raised
14:44:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183
14:47:43 <mike> there are 2 uses in TTML 1.0: 1) declaration of a document conformance; and 2) directive to the presentation processor for required features and allowinig rejection of the document. we must decide which of these is intended (it cannot be both).
14:48:55 <plh> Mike and Monica supports 1)
14:49:02 <plh> anybody for 2) 
14:49:03 <plh> ?
14:50:41 <plh> [[
14:50:42 <plh> A presentation process may be presented with documents that contain features that are not understood. The table that follows outlines the behavior expected under specific conditions. The pre-requisite if the caption file is syntactically valid XML.
14:50:43 <plh> ]]
14:50:57 <plh> for know, one must interpret
14:51:07 <plh> for unknown, one must ignore
14:51:54 <mmartin3> Mike: Error handling section doesn't conflict with TTML 1.0.
14:52:11 <mmartin3> mijordan: Agrees option 1.
14:53:34 <pal> I like option 1
14:53:45 <plh> Current recommendation is option 1, waiting for feedback from Sean
14:53:47 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Hold until Sean is present.
14:53:52 <mmartin3> Put in pending review.
14:53:57 <mmartin3> Option 1 is preferred.
14:54:09 <plh> issue-185?
14:54:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-185 -- confusion about processor versus player -- raised
14:54:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/185
14:54:38 <plh> Proposal: Update to "presentation processor" on all references.
14:54:39 <mmartin3> mmartin3: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Sep/0063.html
14:54:48 <mmartin3> Recommendation to use processor term.
14:55:33 <mmartin3> Mike: Term in TTML is consistent with Recommendation.
14:56:11 <mmartin3> Action: Glenn is implement use of term processor in SDP to replace all occurrences of term player.
14:56:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-108 - Is implement use of term processor in SDP to replace all occurrences of term player. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-04].
14:56:21 <plh> issue-186?
14:56:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-186 -- confusion about SHALL vs MUST -- pending review
14:56:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/186
14:57:06 <plh> Glenn removed all instances of SHALL
14:57:28 <plh> close issue-186
14:57:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-186 confusion about SHALL vs MUST closed
14:57:37 <plh> issue-177?
14:57:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-177 -- Clarify mandatory processing semantics referenced in Section 3.2.1. Consider whether to use Appendix D, Table E-2. -- pending review
14:57:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/177
14:58:06 <mmartin3> Leave open.
14:58:38 <mmartin3> CourtneyKennedy: Wants to add an Issue. 
14:58:42 <mmartin3> plh: Send email to the list.
14:58:47 <plh> https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/new
14:58:52 <mmartin3> Use link to create.
14:59:22 <plh> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html#mapping-of-us-government-requirements-to-constrained-profile-features
15:00:07 <plh> Caption background color and Caption window color are mapped to the same property
15:00:15 <plh> and it needs to be separated
15:00:29 <mmartin3> Mike: The feature is subtly there.
15:00:54 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
15:00:54 <Zakim> sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
15:01:09 <plh> [adjourned]
15:01:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/27-tt-minutes.html plh
15:01:44 <plh> Present+ Courtney
15:01:48 <plh> Regrets+ Sean
15:01:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/27-tt-minutes.html plh