IRC log of audio on 2012-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:00 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:56:00 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-audio-irc
15:56:02 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:02 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #audio
15:56:04 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 28346
15:56:04 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:05 [trackbot]: Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:56:05 [trackbot]: Date: 26 September 2012
15:56:13 [ot]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012JulSep/0830.html
15:56:13 [ot]: Chair: Olivier
15:56:13 [ot]: Agenda+ TPAC update
15:56:13 [ot]: Agenda+ Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations
15:56:13 [ot]: Agenda+ Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488
15:56:14 [ot]: Agenda+ Any Other Business
15:56:22 [ot]: rrsagent, pointer?
15:56:22 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-audio-irc#T15-56-22
15:59:33 [joe]: joe has joined #audio
15:59:58 [ot]: zakim, code?
15:59:58 [Zakim]: the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ot
16:00:30 [chris]: chris has joined #audio
16:00:58 [Zakim]: RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:01:11 [Zakim]: +??P53
16:01:12 [ot]: zakim, who is here?
16:01:36 [ot]: zakim, ??P53 is probably me
16:01:38 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P53
16:01:40 [Zakim]: +??P57
16:01:46 [Zakim]: -??P53
16:01:48 [Zakim]: +??P53
16:01:56 [Zakim]: +joe
16:01:56 [joe]: zakim, ??P57 is me
16:02:04 [Zakim]: On IRC I see chris, joe, Zakim, RRSAgent, gcardoso, colinbdclark, tmichel__, ot, tmichel_, tmichel, shepazu, rtoyg, paul_irish, foolip, trackbot
16:02:05 [jussi]: jussi has joined #audio
16:02:06 [gmandyam]: gmandyam has joined #audio
16:02:08 [Zakim]: +ot?; got it
16:02:15 [Zakim]: +gmandyam
16:02:18 [joe]: zakim, P57 is joe
16:02:21 [gmandyam]: Giri Mandyam from QuIC - dialing in from (858) are code
16:02:31 [Zakim]: +joe; got it
16:02:35 [chris]: conference code???
16:02:45 [ot]: chris: 28346
16:02:49 [ot]: (audio)
16:02:53 [Zakim]: sorry, joe, I do not recognize a party named 'P57'
16:03:00 [ot]: zakim, ??P57 is joe
16:03:36 [Zakim]: I already had ??P57 as joe.a, ot
16:03:52 [cwilso]: cwilso has joined #audio
16:04:02 [Zakim]: +crogers
16:04:28 [ot]: zakim, agenda?
16:04:42 [Zakim]: +??P85
16:04:44 [ot]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012JulSep/0830.html
16:04:54 [Zakim]: +??P76
16:04:56 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:04:58 [Zakim]: 1. TPAC update [from ot]
16:05:00 [Zakim]: 2. Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations [from ot]
16:05:02 [Zakim]: 3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 [from ot]
16:05:05 [Zakim]: 4. Any Other Business [from ot]
16:05:10 [jussi]: zakim, ??P85 is me
16:05:35 [ot]: zakim, take up agendum 1
16:06:05 [Zakim]: +jussi; got it
16:06:14 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "TPAC update" taken up [from ot]
16:06:34 [Zakim]: + +1.862.201.aaaa
16:07:20 [shepazu]: zakim, code?
16:07:20 [Zakim]: the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
16:07:28 [ot]: Olivier: TPAC face to face cancelled
16:07:38 [ot]: … but we should try and have another one in near future
16:07:43 [Zakim]: +Doug_Schepers
16:07:57 [chrislo]: chrislo has joined #audio
16:09:14 [ot]: Olivier: January 2013 might be best
16:10:54 [ot]: Olivier: East coast of US sounds like a decent choice
16:11:07 [ot]: Joe: would be happy to look into using our facilities (Boston)
16:11:11 [chrislo]: chrislo has joined #audio
16:11:15 [ot]: … could host up to a dozen people here
16:12:37 [ot]: Olivier: anything in January we'd want to avoid?
16:12:46 [ot]: Doug: none that I can think of
16:12:57 [ot]: … have an SVG f2f in early 2013 (Australia)
16:13:18 [cwilso]: If Noteflight doesn't work out, we could probably manage to host in our New York office - I don't know precisely the hosting capacity, but I know it's a huge office.
16:13:44 [ot]: Doug: Microsoft has a N.E.R.D facility in downtown cambridge too
16:16:15 [jernoble]: jernoble has joined #audio
16:16:19 [ot]: Doug: supportive of cancelling f2f, but we should try and reach out to DAP/webrtc
16:16:24 [jernoble]: zakim, who is here
16:16:24 [Zakim]: jernoble, you need to end that query with '?'
16:16:27 [jernoble]: zakim, who is here?
16:16:27 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ot?, joe.a, joe, gmandyam, crogers, jussi, ??P76, +1.862.201.aaaa, Doug_Schepers
16:16:29 [Zakim]: On IRC I see jernoble, cwilso, gmandyam, jussi, chris, joe, Zakim, RRSAgent, gcardoso, colinbdclark, tmichel__, ot, tmichel_, tmichel, shepazu, rtoyg, paul_irish, foolip, trackbot
16:16:42 [jernoble]: zakim, ??P76 is me
16:16:42 [Zakim]: +jernoble; got it
16:16:47 [ot]: … might consider have an overlap?
16:17:12 [chrislowis]: chrislowis has joined #audio
16:17:38 [cwilso]: zakim, aaaa is me
16:17:38 [Zakim]: +cwilso; got it
16:17:52 [ot]: Doug: note that Boston is not the only place in East Coast
16:18:22 [ot]: … suggests more towards south
16:18:31 [chrislowis]: Anyone else having problems with SIP (zakim@voip.w3.org)?
16:19:14 [jernoble]: chrislowis: i'm logged in through sip now; seems fine
16:19:15 [ot]: chrislowis: not sure - I'm using skype to connect directly to zakim
16:19:49 [chrislowis]: I'm getting "cannot connect call at this time". I'll try skype.
16:19:57 [ot]: Doug: also note west coast possibly easier for some
16:21:38 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:21:42 [ot]: Doug: may want to consider multiple options
16:21:59 [chrislowis]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:21:59 [Zakim]: +chrislowis; got it
16:22:06 [ot]: Olivier: agree - I'll start a poll and give a few options
16:22:27 [ot]: zakim, close agendum 1
16:22:27 [Zakim]: agendum 1, TPAC update, closed
16:22:28 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:22:28 [Zakim]: 2. Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations [from ot]
16:22:57 [ot]: zakim, take up agendum 2
16:22:57 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations" taken up [from ot]
16:23:59 [shepazu]: agenda+ DAP
16:24:07 [ot]: CWilson: on a the MIDI spec, still hashing out best way to represent sending messages in concise way
16:24:19 [ot]: … took the spec and wrote a polyfill
16:24:28 [ot]: … helped discover a few issues and spark changes
16:24:54 [ot]: … want to expand a bit on the goal / description of the spec
16:25:29 [ot]: Jussi: recent changes focused on making messages less verbose
16:25:42 [ot]: … changed MidiMessage to be a dictionary
16:25:47 [shepazu]: agenda+ chartering
16:25:58 [ot]: … so you can simply use JS now
16:26:36 [ot]: Crogers: we now have experimental version of the media source node for live audio input
16:26:49 [ot]: … had been in the spec for a while, just implemented
16:26:55 [ot]: … spurred by ROC's work
16:27:32 [ot]: … finally had a chance to implement it it webkit, people having fun experimenting with it
16:27:56 [ot]: … someone did a guitar tuner, done very well
16:28:22 [ot]: … really nice to let people experiment with live audio sources
16:28:35 [ot]: … also plan on implementing media source for RTC peers
16:28:53 [ot]: … something that had been in our use cases
16:29:06 [ot]: … again, was in the spec for a while
16:29:44 [ot]: … Otherwise, just got around to names changes, including a section about deprecated old names
16:29:58 [ot]: Olivier:make sure to update issues
16:30:14 [ot]: zakim, close agendum 2
16:30:14 [Zakim]: agendum 2, Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations, closed
16:30:16 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:30:16 [Zakim]: 3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 [from ot]
16:30:18 [ot]: zakim, take up agendum 6
16:30:18 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "chartering" taken up [from shepazu]
16:30:41 [ot]: Doug: we put up the group for rechartering. No objection. only some comments
16:31:11 [ot]: … we got approval, will be sending the announcement today
16:31:27 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #audio
16:31:31 [tmichel__]: tmichel__ has joined #audio
16:31:32 [tmichel_]: tmichel_ has joined #audio
16:31:43 [ot]: … we can start thinking about publishing FPWD of MIDI spec
16:32:42 [Zakim]: +??P9
16:33:37 [ot]: zakim, close agendum 6
16:33:41 [Zakim]: agendum 6, chartering, closed
16:33:43 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:33:45 [Zakim]: 3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 [from ot]
16:33:47 [ot]: zakim, take up agendum 3
16:34:05 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488" taken up [from ot]
16:35:54 [ot]: joe: the issue is that if you are trying to write code that modifies a piece of the audio node graph based on current configuration
16:36:07 [ot]: … there doesn't appear to be a way to find a node and know what is connected to it
16:37:31 [ot]: crogers: it's quite easy to create a wrapper object to keep track
16:37:37 [ot]: … but not built in
16:38:04 [ot]: … base API is already quite complex
16:38:10 [ot]: … also, graph is not static
16:38:11 [jussi]: q+
16:38:18 [ot]: … can be changed at quite high rate
16:38:28 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #audio
16:38:28 [tmichel__]: tmichel__ has joined #audio
16:38:28 [tmichel_]: tmichel_ has joined #audio
16:38:31 [ot]: ack jussi
16:39:14 [cwilso]: THE ICE CREAM TRUCK MAN IS HERE!!!!!!!!
16:39:27 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #audio
16:39:34 [ot]: Jussi: worried about 3rd party code
16:40:07 [ot]: [missed the last bit]
16:40:08 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #audio
16:40:32 [ot]: Crogers: hosting application can define representation
16:40:46 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #audio
16:40:46 [tmichel__]: tmichel__ has joined #audio
16:40:46 [tmichel_]: tmichel_ has joined #audio
16:40:49 [ot]: Jussi: one example would be cwilson's vocoder app
16:40:58 [ot]: … creates quite a complex graph
16:42:00 [ot]: crogers: desktop world have standard plugins which have to expose strictly defined interface
16:42:15 [ot]: … a standard of some kind is going to have to be developed
16:44:25 [ot]: [discussion about levels of abstraction and managing connections]
16:44:47 [ot]: joe: it seems like a basic function, is the concern about implementation or instability of state?
16:45:06 [ot]: crogers: partially it's a worry about complexity added to the API
16:45:20 [ot]: … would feel bad adding on more complexity for implementors
16:45:37 [ot]: … probably best for v2
16:45:41 [ot]: joe: sounds good
16:46:27 [ot]: RESOLVED: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 to be tackled later. Probably not for v1
16:46:35 [ot]: zakim, close agendum 3
16:46:35 [Zakim]: agendum 3, Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488, closed
16:46:38 [Zakim]: I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:46:38 [Zakim]: 4. Any Other Business [from ot]
16:46:47 [ot]: zakim, take up agendum 5
16:46:47 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "DAP" taken up [from shepazu]
16:47:08 [shepazu]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Sep/0044.html
16:47:15 [shepazu]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Sep/0051.html
16:47:22 [ot]: Doug: sent some comments to the DAP WG on the Media Capture
16:47:30 [ot]: … 2 main comments were rejected
16:47:46 [shepazu]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Sep/0048.html
16:47:54 [ot]: ... 2 issues
16:48:19 [ot]: … one was about the type of media requested
16:48:38 [ot]: … one of the value is camcorder (instead of video camera)
16:48:56 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-media-capture-20120712/
16:49:13 [ot]: … camera is still camera, camcorder is video camera
16:49:36 [ot]: … suggested change of wording
16:49:51 [ot]: … response was that the term was already used
16:51:16 [ot]: Olivier: agree, the terms are weird. Would probably go for something more abstract (image/video)?
16:51:23 [ot]: Crogers: what is this API for?
16:51:48 [ot]: Doug: this is the capture attribute on the input element
16:51:59 [ot]: … not clear how this relates to getUserMedia
16:52:07 [ot]: jussi: more related to forms
16:52:57 [ot]: Olivier: could be a good comment to send, ask to explain relationship / difference with getUserMedia
16:53:01 [jernoble]: regrets; i have to leave a bit early. bye!
16:53:26 [ot]: Giri: seems to come from a request for declarative
16:53:46 [ot]: … possibly will have implementation issues, esp. versus getUserMedia
16:54:03 [ot]: Doug: suggest people should chime in
16:54:10 [ot]: … help the DAP group make the right decision
16:55:59 [ot]: Doug: second issue - video camera access assumes access to microphone
16:56:05 [ot]: … you can say microphone separately
16:56:24 [ot]: crogers: that's the case with getUserMedia, they are separate
16:56:45 [ot]: Doug: should ask access to the two separately
16:57:02 [ot]: Doug: please chime in on the thread
16:59:18 [ot]: Doug: will make sure coordination happens, but wanted either reality check or support on the issue
17:01:32 [ot]: RESOLUTION: the group would like to request that The HTML Media Capture specification defines its relationship with GetUserMedia
17:01:50 [Zakim]: -??P9
17:02:05 [ot]: RESOLUTION: the group would like to request that The HTML Media Capture specification follows same naming/approach to access to video/microphone as getUserMedia
17:02:46 [ot]: Olivier: anything else
17:03:32 [Zakim]: -joe
17:03:33 [Zakim]: -gmandyam
17:03:34 [Zakim]: -ot?
17:03:36 [Zakim]: -Doug_Schepers
17:03:38 [Zakim]: -crogers
17:03:38 [Zakim]: -cwilso
17:03:39 [Zakim]: -jernoble
17:03:39 [Zakim]: -chrislowis
17:03:41 [Zakim]: -jussi
17:03:45 [ot]: Next Teleconference: 17th October, same time/place
17:03:57 [ot]: Olivier: KUTGW, talk to you in 3 weeks
17:04:02 [ot]: rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:02 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-audio-minutes.html ot
17:35:00 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, joe.a, in RWC_Audio()12:00PM
17:35:01 [Zakim]: RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
17:35:01 [Zakim]: Attendees were joe, ot?, gmandyam, crogers, jussi, +1.862.201.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, jernoble, cwilso, chrislowis
19:53:48 [automata]: automata has joined #audio
19:55:13 [ot]: ot has joined #audio
19:58:30 [gcardoso]: gcardoso has joined #audio
22:32:02 [automata]: automata has joined #audio
23:26:18 [automata]: automata has joined #audio