15:56:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:56:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-audio-irc
15:56:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
15:56:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
15:56:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:56:05 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2012
15:56:13 <ot> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012JulSep/0830.html
15:56:13 <ot> Chair: Olivier
15:56:13 <ot> Agenda+ TPAC update
15:56:13 <ot> Agenda+ Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations
15:56:13 <ot> Agenda+ Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488
15:56:14 <ot> Agenda+ Any Other Business
15:56:22 <ot> rrsagent, pointer?
15:56:22 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-audio-irc#T15-56-22
15:59:33 <joe> joe has joined #audio
15:59:58 <ot> zakim, code?
15:59:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ot
16:00:30 <chris> chris has joined #audio
16:00:58 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:01:11 <Zakim> +??P53
16:01:12 <ot> zakim, who is here?
16:01:36 <ot> zakim, ??P53 is probably me
16:01:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P53
16:01:40 <Zakim> +??P57
16:01:46 <Zakim> -??P53
16:01:48 <Zakim> +??P53
16:01:56 <Zakim> +joe
16:01:56 <joe> zakim, ??P57 is me
16:02:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see chris, joe, Zakim, RRSAgent, gcardoso, colinbdclark, tmichel__, ot, tmichel_, tmichel, shepazu, rtoyg, paul_irish, foolip, trackbot
16:02:05 <jussi> jussi has joined #audio
16:02:06 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #audio
16:02:08 <Zakim> +ot?; got it
16:02:15 <Zakim> +gmandyam
16:02:18 <joe> zakim, P57 is joe
16:02:21 <gmandyam> Giri Mandyam from QuIC - dialing in from (858) are code
16:02:31 <Zakim> +joe; got it
16:02:35 <chris> conference code???
16:02:45 <ot> chris: 28346
16:02:49 <ot> (audio)
16:02:53 <Zakim> sorry, joe, I do not recognize a party named 'P57'
16:03:00 <ot> zakim, ??P57 is joe
16:03:36 <Zakim> I already had ??P57 as joe.a, ot
16:03:52 <cwilso> cwilso has joined #audio
16:04:02 <Zakim> +crogers
16:04:28 <ot> zakim, agenda?
16:04:42 <Zakim> +??P85
16:04:44 <ot> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012JulSep/0830.html
16:04:54 <Zakim> +??P76
16:04:56 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:04:58 <Zakim> 1. TPAC update [from ot]
16:05:00 <Zakim> 2. Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations [from ot]
16:05:02 <Zakim> 3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 [from ot]
16:05:05 <Zakim> 4. Any Other Business [from ot]
16:05:10 <jussi> zakim, ??P85 is me
16:05:35 <ot> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:06:05 <Zakim> +jussi; got it
16:06:14 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TPAC update" taken up [from ot]
16:06:34 <Zakim> + +1.862.201.aaaa
16:07:20 <shepazu> zakim, code?
16:07:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
16:07:28 <ot> Olivier: TPAC face to face cancelled
16:07:38 <ot> … but we should try and have another one in near future
16:07:43 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:07:57 <chrislo> chrislo has joined #audio
16:09:14 <ot> Olivier: January 2013 might be best
16:10:54 <ot> Olivier: East coast of US sounds like a decent choice
16:11:07 <ot> Joe: would be happy to look into using our facilities (Boston)
16:11:11 <chrislo> chrislo has joined #audio
16:11:15 <ot> … could host up to a dozen people here
16:12:37 <ot> Olivier: anything in January we'd want to avoid?
16:12:46 <ot> Doug: none that I can think of
16:12:57 <ot> … have an SVG f2f in early 2013 (Australia)
16:13:18 <cwilso> If Noteflight doesn't work out, we could probably manage to host in our New York office - I don't know precisely the hosting capacity, but I know it's a huge office.
16:13:44 <ot> Doug: Microsoft has a N.E.R.D facility in downtown cambridge too
16:16:15 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
16:16:19 <ot> Doug: supportive of cancelling f2f, but we should try and reach out to DAP/webrtc
16:16:24 <jernoble> zakim, who is here
16:16:24 <Zakim> jernoble, you need to end that query with '?'
16:16:27 <jernoble> zakim, who is here?
16:16:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see ot?, joe.a, joe, gmandyam, crogers, jussi, ??P76, +1.862.201.aaaa, Doug_Schepers
16:16:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see jernoble, cwilso, gmandyam, jussi, chris, joe, Zakim, RRSAgent, gcardoso, colinbdclark, tmichel__, ot, tmichel_, tmichel, shepazu, rtoyg, paul_irish, foolip, trackbot
16:16:42 <jernoble> zakim, ??P76 is me
16:16:42 <Zakim> +jernoble; got it
16:16:47 <ot> … might consider have an overlap?
16:17:12 <chrislowis> chrislowis has joined #audio
16:17:38 <cwilso> zakim, aaaa is me
16:17:38 <Zakim> +cwilso; got it
16:17:52 <ot> Doug: note that Boston is not the only place in East Coast
16:18:22 <ot> … suggests more towards south
16:18:31 <chrislowis> Anyone else having problems with SIP (zakim@voip.w3.org)? 
16:19:14 <jernoble> chrislowis: i'm logged in through sip now; seems fine
16:19:15 <ot> chrislowis: not sure - I'm using skype to connect directly to zakim
16:19:49 <chrislowis> I'm getting "cannot connect call at this time". I'll try skype. 
16:19:57 <ot> Doug: also note west coast possibly easier for some
16:21:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:21:42 <ot> Doug: may want to consider multiple options
16:21:59 <chrislowis> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:21:59 <Zakim> +chrislowis; got it
16:22:06 <ot> Olivier: agree - I'll start a poll and give a few options
16:22:27 <ot> zakim, close agendum 1
16:22:27 <Zakim> agendum 1, TPAC update, closed
16:22:28 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:22:28 <Zakim> 2. Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations [from ot]
16:22:57 <ot> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:22:57 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations" taken up [from ot]
16:23:59 <shepazu> agenda+ DAP
16:24:07 <ot> CWilson: on a the MIDI spec, still hashing out best way to represent sending messages in concise way
16:24:19 <ot> … took the spec and wrote a polyfill
16:24:28 <ot> … helped discover a few issues and spark changes
16:24:54 <ot> … want to expand a bit on the goal / description of the spec
16:25:29 <ot> Jussi: recent changes focused on making messages less verbose
16:25:42 <ot> … changed MidiMessage to be a dictionary
16:25:47 <shepazu> agenda+ chartering
16:25:58 <ot> … so you can simply use JS now
16:26:36 <ot> Crogers: we now have experimental version of the media source node for live audio input
16:26:49 <ot> … had been in the spec for a while, just implemented
16:26:55 <ot> … spurred by ROC's work
16:27:32 <ot> … finally had a chance to implement it it webkit, people having fun experimenting with it
16:27:56 <ot> … someone did a guitar tuner, done very well
16:28:22 <ot> … really nice to let people experiment with live audio sources
16:28:35 <ot> … also plan on implementing media source for RTC peers
16:28:53 <ot> … something that had been in our use cases
16:29:06 <ot> … again, was in the spec for a while
16:29:44 <ot> … Otherwise, just got around to names changes, including a section about deprecated old names
16:29:58 <ot> Olivier:make sure to update issues
16:30:14 <ot> zakim, close agendum 2
16:30:14 <Zakim> agendum 2, Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations, closed
16:30:16 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:30:16 <Zakim> 3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 [from ot]
16:30:18 <ot> zakim, take up agendum 6
16:30:18 <Zakim> agendum 6. "chartering" taken up [from shepazu]
16:30:41 <ot> Doug: we put up the group for rechartering. No objection. only some comments
16:31:11 <ot> … we got approval, will be sending the announcement today
16:31:27 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
16:31:31 <tmichel__> tmichel__ has joined #audio
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16:31:43 <ot> … we can start thinking about publishing FPWD of MIDI spec
16:32:42 <Zakim> +??P9
16:33:37 <ot> zakim, close agendum 6
16:33:41 <Zakim> agendum 6, chartering, closed
16:33:43 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:33:45 <Zakim> 3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 [from ot]
16:33:47 <ot> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:34:05 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488" taken up [from ot]
16:35:54 <ot> joe: the issue is that if you are trying to write code that modifies a piece of the audio node graph based on current configuration
16:36:07 <ot> … there doesn't appear to be a way to find a node and know what is connected to it
16:37:31 <ot> crogers: it's quite easy to create a wrapper object to keep track
16:37:37 <ot> … but not built in 
16:38:04 <ot> … base API is already quite complex
16:38:10 <ot> … also, graph is not static
16:38:11 <jussi> q+
16:38:18 <ot> … can be changed at quite high rate
16:38:28 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
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16:38:31 <ot> ack jussi
16:39:14 <cwilso> THE ICE CREAM TRUCK MAN IS HERE!!!!!!!!
16:39:27 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
16:39:34 <ot> Jussi: worried about 3rd party code
16:40:07 <ot> [missed the last bit]
16:40:08 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
16:40:32 <ot> Crogers: hosting application can define representation
16:40:46 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
16:40:46 <tmichel__> tmichel__ has joined #audio
16:40:46 <tmichel_> tmichel_ has joined #audio
16:40:49 <ot> Jussi: one example would be cwilson's vocoder app
16:40:58 <ot> … creates quite a complex graph
16:42:00 <ot> crogers: desktop world have standard plugins which have to expose strictly defined interface
16:42:15 <ot> … a standard of some kind is going to have to be developed
16:44:25 <ot> [discussion about levels of abstraction and managing connections]
16:44:47 <ot> joe: it seems like a basic function, is the concern about implementation or instability of state?
16:45:06 <ot> crogers: partially it's a worry about complexity added to the API
16:45:20 <ot> … would feel bad adding on more complexity for implementors
16:45:37 <ot> … probably best for v2
16:45:41 <ot> joe: sounds good
16:46:27 <ot> RESOLVED: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488 to be tackled later. Probably not for v1
16:46:35 <ot> zakim, close agendum 3
16:46:35 <Zakim> agendum 3, Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18488, closed
16:46:38 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:46:38 <Zakim> 4. Any Other Business [from ot]
16:46:47 <ot> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:46:47 <Zakim> agendum 5. "DAP" taken up [from shepazu]
16:47:08 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Sep/0044.html
16:47:15 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Sep/0051.html
16:47:22 <ot> Doug: sent some comments to the DAP WG on the Media Capture 
16:47:30 <ot> … 2 main comments were rejected
16:47:46 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Sep/0048.html
16:47:54 <ot> ... 2 issues
16:48:19 <ot> … one was about the type of media requested
16:48:38 <ot> … one of the value is camcorder (instead of video camera)
16:48:56 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-media-capture-20120712/
16:49:13 <ot> … camera is still camera, camcorder is video camera
16:49:36 <ot> … suggested change of wording
16:49:51 <ot> … response was that the term was already used
16:51:16 <ot> Olivier: agree, the terms are weird. Would probably go for something more abstract (image/video)?
16:51:23 <ot> Crogers: what is this API for?
16:51:48 <ot> Doug: this is the capture attribute on the input element
16:51:59 <ot> … not clear how this relates to getUserMedia
16:52:07 <ot> jussi: more related to forms
16:52:57 <ot> Olivier: could be a good comment to send, ask to explain relationship / difference with getUserMedia
16:53:01 <jernoble> regrets; i have to leave a bit early.  bye!
16:53:26 <ot> Giri: seems to come from a request for declarative 
16:53:46 <ot> … possibly will have implementation issues, esp. versus getUserMedia
16:54:03 <ot> Doug: suggest people should chime in
16:54:10 <ot> … help the DAP group make the right decision
16:55:59 <ot> Doug: second issue - video camera access assumes access to microphone
16:56:05 <ot> … you can say microphone separately
16:56:24 <ot> crogers: that's the case with getUserMedia, they are separate
16:56:45 <ot> Doug: should ask access to the two separately
16:57:02 <ot> Doug: please chime in on the thread
16:59:18 <ot> Doug: will make sure coordination happens, but wanted either reality check or support on the issue
17:01:32 <ot> RESOLUTION: the group would like to request that The HTML Media Capture specification defines its relationship with GetUserMedia
17:01:50 <Zakim> -??P9
17:02:05 <ot> RESOLUTION: the group would like to request that The HTML Media Capture specification follows same naming/approach to access to video/microphone as getUserMedia
17:02:46 <ot> Olivier: anything else
17:03:32 <Zakim> -joe
17:03:33 <Zakim> -gmandyam
17:03:34 <Zakim> -ot?
17:03:36 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
17:03:38 <Zakim> -crogers
17:03:38 <Zakim> -cwilso
17:03:39 <Zakim> -jernoble
17:03:39 <Zakim> -chrislowis
17:03:41 <Zakim> -jussi
17:03:45 <ot> Next Teleconference: 17th October, same time/place
17:03:57 <ot> Olivier: KUTGW, talk to you in 3 weeks
17:04:02 <ot> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-audio-minutes.html ot
17:35:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, joe.a, in RWC_Audio()12:00PM
17:35:01 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
17:35:01 <Zakim> Attendees were joe, ot?, gmandyam, crogers, jussi, +1.862.201.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, jernoble, cwilso, chrislowis
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