IRC log of audio on 2012-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:00 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:56:02 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:02 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be 28346
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ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
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Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:56:05 [trackbot]
Date: 26 September 2012
15:56:13 [ot]
15:56:13 [ot]
Chair: Olivier
15:56:13 [ot]
Agenda+ TPAC update
15:56:13 [ot]
Agenda+ Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations
15:56:13 [ot]
Agenda+ Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode
15:56:14 [ot]
Agenda+ Any Other Business
15:56:22 [ot]
rrsagent, pointer?
15:56:22 [RRSAgent]
15:59:33 [joe]
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zakim, code?
15:59:58 [Zakim]
the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, ot
16:00:30 [chris]
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RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:01:11 [Zakim]
16:01:12 [ot]
zakim, who is here?
16:01:36 [ot]
zakim, ??P53 is probably me
16:01:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P53
16:01:40 [Zakim]
16:01:46 [Zakim]
16:01:48 [Zakim]
16:01:56 [Zakim]
16:01:56 [joe]
zakim, ??P57 is me
16:02:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see chris, joe, Zakim, RRSAgent, gcardoso, colinbdclark, tmichel__, ot, tmichel_, tmichel, shepazu, rtoyg, paul_irish, foolip, trackbot
16:02:05 [jussi]
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16:02:06 [gmandyam]
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16:02:08 [Zakim]
+ot?; got it
16:02:15 [Zakim]
16:02:18 [joe]
zakim, P57 is joe
16:02:21 [gmandyam]
Giri Mandyam from QuIC - dialing in from (858) are code
16:02:31 [Zakim]
+joe; got it
16:02:35 [chris]
conference code???
16:02:45 [ot]
chris: 28346
16:02:49 [ot]
16:02:53 [Zakim]
sorry, joe, I do not recognize a party named 'P57'
16:03:00 [ot]
zakim, ??P57 is joe
16:03:36 [Zakim]
I already had ??P57 as joe.a, ot
16:03:52 [cwilso]
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16:04:02 [Zakim]
16:04:28 [ot]
zakim, agenda?
16:04:42 [Zakim]
16:04:44 [ot]
16:04:54 [Zakim]
16:04:56 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:04:58 [Zakim]
1. TPAC update [from ot]
16:05:00 [Zakim]
2. Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations [from ot]
16:05:02 [Zakim]
3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode [from ot]
16:05:05 [Zakim]
4. Any Other Business [from ot]
16:05:10 [jussi]
zakim, ??P85 is me
16:05:35 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 1
16:06:05 [Zakim]
+jussi; got it
16:06:14 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "TPAC update" taken up [from ot]
16:06:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.862.201.aaaa
16:07:20 [shepazu]
zakim, code?
16:07:20 [Zakim]
the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, shepazu
16:07:28 [ot]
Olivier: TPAC face to face cancelled
16:07:38 [ot]
… but we should try and have another one in near future
16:07:43 [Zakim]
16:07:57 [chrislo]
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16:09:14 [ot]
Olivier: January 2013 might be best
16:10:54 [ot]
Olivier: East coast of US sounds like a decent choice
16:11:07 [ot]
Joe: would be happy to look into using our facilities (Boston)
16:11:11 [chrislo]
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16:11:15 [ot]
… could host up to a dozen people here
16:12:37 [ot]
Olivier: anything in January we'd want to avoid?
16:12:46 [ot]
Doug: none that I can think of
16:12:57 [ot]
… have an SVG f2f in early 2013 (Australia)
16:13:18 [cwilso]
If Noteflight doesn't work out, we could probably manage to host in our New York office - I don't know precisely the hosting capacity, but I know it's a huge office.
16:13:44 [ot]
Doug: Microsoft has a N.E.R.D facility in downtown cambridge too
16:16:15 [jernoble]
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16:16:19 [ot]
Doug: supportive of cancelling f2f, but we should try and reach out to DAP/webrtc
16:16:24 [jernoble]
zakim, who is here
16:16:24 [Zakim]
jernoble, you need to end that query with '?'
16:16:27 [jernoble]
zakim, who is here?
16:16:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ot?, joe.a, joe, gmandyam, crogers, jussi, ??P76, +1.862.201.aaaa, Doug_Schepers
16:16:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jernoble, cwilso, gmandyam, jussi, chris, joe, Zakim, RRSAgent, gcardoso, colinbdclark, tmichel__, ot, tmichel_, tmichel, shepazu, rtoyg, paul_irish, foolip, trackbot
16:16:42 [jernoble]
zakim, ??P76 is me
16:16:42 [Zakim]
+jernoble; got it
16:16:47 [ot]
… might consider have an overlap?
16:17:12 [chrislowis]
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16:17:38 [cwilso]
zakim, aaaa is me
16:17:38 [Zakim]
+cwilso; got it
16:17:52 [ot]
Doug: note that Boston is not the only place in East Coast
16:18:22 [ot]
… suggests more towards south
16:18:31 [chrislowis]
Anyone else having problems with SIP (
16:19:14 [jernoble]
chrislowis: i'm logged in through sip now; seems fine
16:19:15 [ot]
chrislowis: not sure - I'm using skype to connect directly to zakim
16:19:49 [chrislowis]
I'm getting "cannot connect call at this time". I'll try skype.
16:19:57 [ot]
Doug: also note west coast possibly easier for some
16:21:38 [Zakim]
16:21:42 [ot]
Doug: may want to consider multiple options
16:21:59 [chrislowis]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:21:59 [Zakim]
+chrislowis; got it
16:22:06 [ot]
Olivier: agree - I'll start a poll and give a few options
16:22:27 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 1
16:22:27 [Zakim]
agendum 1, TPAC update, closed
16:22:28 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:22:28 [Zakim]
2. Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations [from ot]
16:22:57 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 2
16:22:57 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations" taken up [from ot]
16:23:59 [shepazu]
agenda+ DAP
16:24:07 [ot]
CWilson: on a the MIDI spec, still hashing out best way to represent sending messages in concise way
16:24:19 [ot]
… took the spec and wrote a polyfill
16:24:28 [ot]
… helped discover a few issues and spark changes
16:24:54 [ot]
… want to expand a bit on the goal / description of the spec
16:25:29 [ot]
Jussi: recent changes focused on making messages less verbose
16:25:42 [ot]
… changed MidiMessage to be a dictionary
16:25:47 [shepazu]
agenda+ chartering
16:25:58 [ot]
… so you can simply use JS now
16:26:36 [ot]
Crogers: we now have experimental version of the media source node for live audio input
16:26:49 [ot]
… had been in the spec for a while, just implemented
16:26:55 [ot]
… spurred by ROC's work
16:27:32 [ot]
… finally had a chance to implement it it webkit, people having fun experimenting with it
16:27:56 [ot]
… someone did a guitar tuner, done very well
16:28:22 [ot]
… really nice to let people experiment with live audio sources
16:28:35 [ot]
… also plan on implementing media source for RTC peers
16:28:53 [ot]
… something that had been in our use cases
16:29:06 [ot]
… again, was in the spec for a while
16:29:44 [ot]
… Otherwise, just got around to names changes, including a section about deprecated old names
16:29:58 [ot]
Olivier:make sure to update issues
16:30:14 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 2
16:30:14 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Quick update on recent changes to the specs / early implementations, closed
16:30:16 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:30:16 [Zakim]
3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode [from ot]
16:30:18 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 6
16:30:18 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "chartering" taken up [from shepazu]
16:30:41 [ot]
Doug: we put up the group for rechartering. No objection. only some comments
16:31:11 [ot]
… we got approval, will be sending the announcement today
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16:31:43 [ot]
… we can start thinking about publishing FPWD of MIDI spec
16:32:42 [Zakim]
16:33:37 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 6
16:33:41 [Zakim]
agendum 6, chartering, closed
16:33:43 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:33:45 [Zakim]
3. Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode [from ot]
16:33:47 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 3
16:34:05 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode" taken up [from ot]
16:35:54 [ot]
joe: the issue is that if you are trying to write code that modifies a piece of the audio node graph based on current configuration
16:36:07 [ot]
… there doesn't appear to be a way to find a node and know what is connected to it
16:37:31 [ot]
crogers: it's quite easy to create a wrapper object to keep track
16:37:37 [ot]
… but not built in
16:38:04 [ot]
… base API is already quite complex
16:38:10 [ot]
… also, graph is not static
16:38:11 [jussi]
16:38:18 [ot]
… can be changed at quite high rate
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16:38:31 [ot]
ack jussi
16:39:14 [cwilso]
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Jussi: worried about 3rd party code
16:40:07 [ot]
[missed the last bit]
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16:40:32 [ot]
Crogers: hosting application can define representation
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16:40:49 [ot]
Jussi: one example would be cwilson's vocoder app
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… creates quite a complex graph
16:42:00 [ot]
crogers: desktop world have standard plugins which have to expose strictly defined interface
16:42:15 [ot]
… a standard of some kind is going to have to be developed
16:44:25 [ot]
[discussion about levels of abstraction and managing connections]
16:44:47 [ot]
joe: it seems like a basic function, is the concern about implementation or instability of state?
16:45:06 [ot]
crogers: partially it's a worry about complexity added to the API
16:45:20 [ot]
… would feel bad adding on more complexity for implementors
16:45:37 [ot]
… probably best for v2
16:45:41 [ot]
joe: sounds good
16:46:27 [ot]
RESOLVED: to be tackled later. Probably not for v1
16:46:35 [ot]
zakim, close agendum 3
16:46:35 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Graph introspection / determine connection state of an AudioNode, closed
16:46:38 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:46:38 [Zakim]
4. Any Other Business [from ot]
16:46:47 [ot]
zakim, take up agendum 5
16:46:47 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "DAP" taken up [from shepazu]
16:47:08 [shepazu]
16:47:15 [shepazu]
16:47:22 [ot]
Doug: sent some comments to the DAP WG on the Media Capture
16:47:30 [ot]
… 2 main comments were rejected
16:47:46 [shepazu]
16:47:54 [ot]
... 2 issues
16:48:19 [ot]
… one was about the type of media requested
16:48:38 [ot]
… one of the value is camcorder (instead of video camera)
16:48:56 [shepazu]
16:49:13 [ot]
… camera is still camera, camcorder is video camera
16:49:36 [ot]
… suggested change of wording
16:49:51 [ot]
… response was that the term was already used
16:51:16 [ot]
Olivier: agree, the terms are weird. Would probably go for something more abstract (image/video)?
16:51:23 [ot]
Crogers: what is this API for?
16:51:48 [ot]
Doug: this is the capture attribute on the input element
16:51:59 [ot]
… not clear how this relates to getUserMedia
16:52:07 [ot]
jussi: more related to forms
16:52:57 [ot]
Olivier: could be a good comment to send, ask to explain relationship / difference with getUserMedia
16:53:01 [jernoble]
regrets; i have to leave a bit early. bye!
16:53:26 [ot]
Giri: seems to come from a request for declarative
16:53:46 [ot]
… possibly will have implementation issues, esp. versus getUserMedia
16:54:03 [ot]
Doug: suggest people should chime in
16:54:10 [ot]
… help the DAP group make the right decision
16:55:59 [ot]
Doug: second issue - video camera access assumes access to microphone
16:56:05 [ot]
… you can say microphone separately
16:56:24 [ot]
crogers: that's the case with getUserMedia, they are separate
16:56:45 [ot]
Doug: should ask access to the two separately
16:57:02 [ot]
Doug: please chime in on the thread
16:59:18 [ot]
Doug: will make sure coordination happens, but wanted either reality check or support on the issue
17:01:32 [ot]
RESOLUTION: the group would like to request that The HTML Media Capture specification defines its relationship with GetUserMedia
17:01:50 [Zakim]
17:02:05 [ot]
RESOLUTION: the group would like to request that The HTML Media Capture specification follows same naming/approach to access to video/microphone as getUserMedia
17:02:46 [ot]
Olivier: anything else
17:03:32 [Zakim]
17:03:33 [Zakim]
17:03:34 [Zakim]
17:03:36 [Zakim]
17:03:38 [Zakim]
17:03:38 [Zakim]
17:03:39 [Zakim]
17:03:39 [Zakim]
17:03:41 [Zakim]
17:03:45 [ot]
Next Teleconference: 17th October, same time/place
17:03:57 [ot]
Olivier: KUTGW, talk to you in 3 weeks
17:04:02 [ot]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ot
17:35:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, joe.a, in RWC_Audio()12:00PM
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RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
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Attendees were joe, ot?, gmandyam, crogers, jussi, +1.862.201.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, jernoble, cwilso, chrislowis
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