14:59:38 RRSAgent has joined #webevents 14:59:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-webevents-irc 14:59:45 RRSAgent, make log public 14:59:58 Scribe: Art 14:59:59 ScribeNick: ArtB 14:59:59 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2012JulSep/0034.html 14:59:59 Date: 25 September 2012 14:59:59 Chair: Art 14:59:59 Meeting: Web Events WG Voice Conference 15:00:01 +[IPcaller] 15:00:05 that is me 15:00:05 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:00:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 15:00:17 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay 15:00:17 +Olli_Pettay; got it 15:00:27 Zakim, nick smaug_ is Olli_Pettay 15:00:27 ok, smaug_, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay 15:00:44 + +358.718.00aaaa 15:01:32 rbyers has joined #webevents 15:01:51 Present: Art_Barstow, Olli_Pettay, Cathy_Chan, Scott_González 15:02:29 +??P36 15:02:46 zakim, ??P36 is Rick_Byers 15:02:46 +Rick_Byers; got it 15:02:54 Present+ Rick_Byers 15:03:08 Zakim, nick rbyers is Rick_Byers 15:03:10 ok, smaug_, I now associate rbyers with Rick_Byers 15:03:37 Doug said he couldn't join until 15 minutes past. 15:03:39 I'm on the call, but muted. 15:03:57 Zakim, code? 15:03:57 the conference code is 9231 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu 15:04:05 +Doug_Schepers 15:04:28 Present+ Doug_Schepers 15:04:53 Scribe: Rick 15:04:54 matt will join in a minute 15:05:35 scribenick: rbyers 15:05:46 ScribeNick: ArtB 15:05:47 + +1.206.697.aabb 15:06:02 Present+ Matt_Brubeck 15:06:10 Topic: Agree on Agenda 15:06:15 AB: I posted a draft agenda yesterday http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2012JulSep/0034.html. 15:06:21 AB: Since then there was an announcement about Microsoft's Pointer Events Member Submission to the W3C http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-pointer-events-20120907/ and I propose we add a related topic to today's agenda. 15:06:29 AB: any objections to adding Pointer Events discussion to the beginning of this meeting? 15:06:38 [ No objections ] 15:06:43 AB: any other change requests? 15:07:27 Topic: Announcements 15:07:32 AB: any short announcements for today? 15:07:53 Cathy has joined #webevents 15:08:15 mbrubeck has joined #webevents 15:08:26 Zakim, who is here? 15:08:26 On the phone I see Scott_González, Olli_Pettay, +358.718.00aaaa, Rick_Byers, Doug_Schepers, +1.206.697.aabb 15:08:28 On IRC I see mbrubeck, Cathy, rbyers, RRSAgent, Zakim, smaug_, ArtB, scott_gonzalez, shepazu, timeless, trackbot 15:08:32 Zakim, aabb is me 15:08:32 +mbrubeck; got it 15:08:50 Topic: Pointer Events 15:08:56 AB: Microsoft's Pointer Events spec http://www.w3.org/Submission/pointer-events/ overlaps the Touch Events spec, at least from the use case level. 15:09:02 AB: in the submission page http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/03/, there is a "suggestion" a new WG be formed to standardize Pointer Events (PE). 15:11:38 sangwhan has joined #webevents 15:12:55 +[IPcaller] 15:13:12 Present+ Sangwhan_Moon 15:13:21 zakim, mute me 15:13:21 sorry, sangwhan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:13:27 zakim, i am IPcaller 15:13:27 ok, sangwhan, I now associate you with [IPcaller] 15:13:34 zakim, mute me 15:13:34 [IPcaller] should now be muted 15:18:44 AB: depending on how one views/positions PE, it can be seen as a super set of TouchEvents (TE). 15:19:05 AB: this raises a number of questions such as "so, what would this mean for our TEv2 effort?" so let me open "the floor" comments, concerns, etc. and Q&A ... 15:19:21 q+ 15:19:50 DS: I think we should drop Touch Events v2 15:19:58 … we don't want competing specs 15:20:26 … there could be some IP problems with continuing with TEv2 15:20:44 … I think it would be good to create a doc that describes PE and TE 15:20:51 … and I intend to create a related blog 15:21:01 … There needs to be some clarification between the two 15:21:12 … as well as some related by name stuff in SVG 15:21:18 s/SVG/CSS/ 15:21:48 I agree as well. 15:21:57 MB: I agree with Doug 15:22:07 AB: I tend to agree with Doug also 15:22:23 … I do think we should continue with TEv1 to Recommendation 15:22:46 RB: I agree too 15:22:58 +1 to both shepazu and ArtB 15:23:01 … if PE would not happen, could we restart TEv2? 15:23:11 AB: yes, that is certainly possible 15:23:21 … but I would hope that wouldn't be necessary 15:23:33 zakim, unmute me 15:23:33 [IPcaller] should no longer be muted 15:23:57 SM: not much of an opinion 15:24:21 SG: yes I agree 15:24:53 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will continue to push Touch Events v1 to final Recommendation 15:25:08 AB: any objections to that? 15:25:14 [ None ] 15:25:21 RESOLUTION: the group will continue to push Touch Events v1 to final Recommendation 15:25:30 AB: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: assuming a new WG is formed for Pointer Events, the group will stop work on Touch Events v2 15:25:45 AB: any comments? 15:25:53 AB: any objections? 15:26:10 OP: do we have a v2 draft? 15:26:13 AB: yes we do 15:26:23 OP: should we publish that as a WG Note? 15:26:28 AB: good question 15:26:35 … any comments? 15:27:00 … in some ways we have done that in earlier drafts 15:27:26 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html 15:27:29 ah, there 15:27:30 AB: I can start a CfC to publish TEv2 as a WG Note 15:27:38 AB: any objections to that? 15:27:59 ACTION: barstow start a CfC to publish TEv2 as a WG Note 15:27:59 Created ACTION-99 - Start a CfC to publish TEv2 as a WG Note [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-10-02]. 15:32:16 DS: if we publish TEv2, we could add something about the PAG for v1 15:32:23 SM: ok; that works 15:32:28 AB: that's a good idea 15:32:47 AB: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: assuming a new WG is formed for Pointer Events, the group will stop work on Touch Events v2 15:32:55 AB: any objections? 15:33:05 … I am trying to set expectations 15:33:23 [ None ] 15:33:28 RESOLUTION: assuming a new WG is formed for Pointer Events, the group will stop work on Touch Events v2 15:33:51 AB: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: after the TEv1 Recommendation is published, the Web Events WG will close 15:35:17 AB: does that seem reasonable? 15:35:23 AB: any objections? 15:35:26 [ None ] 15:35:49 DS: there is a liaison with IndieUI WG 15:35:54 … and the joint deliverable 15:36:15 … Personally, I think we can ask people interested in IndieUI to just join that WG 15:36:31 AB: so that's a good point re IndieUI 15:36:54 … and I tend to agree with you -> that is, if someone is interested in that work, they can just join the IndieUI WG 15:37:07 AB: any comments about IndieUI? 15:37:29 AB: any objections to PROPOSED RESOLUTION: after the TEv1 Recommendation is published, the Web Events WG will close ? 15:37:31 [ None ] 15:37:36 RESOLUTION: after the TEv1 Recommendation is published, the Web Events WG will close 15:38:11 AB: anything else on PE for today? 15:38:46 RB: one thing we talked about is gestures 15:38:57 … we know that is off limits for PE WG 15:39:08 … and probably not IndieUI WG either 15:39:18 … thus Web Events is one option 15:39:33 OP: I though gestures was explicity out of scope for WebEvents 15:39:37 DS: yes, that's true 15:39:54 … thus Web Events could be rechartered as "where gestures are happening" 15:40:30 AB: I agree it makes sense to start a group at W3C related to gestures 15:40:38 … I personally strongly support that 15:40:52 … However, I would start a new WG and break the connection with Web Events 15:41:11 … mainly as a marketing and messaging rationale 15:42:16 DS: yes, I agree with Art re starting a new group 15:42:43 … it may be better for us to start a new group with Gesture prominent 15:42:51 RB: that makes sense, thanks for the input 15:43:06 -Olli_Pettay 15:44:00 +??P2 15:44:32 Who just joined the call? 15:44:33 smaug has joined #webevents 15:44:43 smaug: Did you just join? (You might be muted.) 15:44:44 it is me 15:44:49 it is me 15:44:56 wait a second 15:44:58 please 15:45:07 rbyers: give me 30s 15:45:17 techinal problem here.... 15:45:41 -??P2 15:46:16 +??P2 15:48:07 I need to drop off. 15:50:00 -Scott_González 16:13:33 Topic: Testing 16:13:42 AB: take discussion to the list 16:13:59 AB: I'd like to get consensus on the single-touch test cases soon-ish 16:14:13 AB: think we still have some work to do on the multi-touch tests 16:14:32 Topic: AoB 16:14:50 AB: if it appears that we have a good reason, we will have a call next week 16:15:01 AB: anything else for today? 16:15:07 AB: meeting adjourned 16:15:09 -??P2 16:15:33 - +358.718.00aaaa 16:15:34 -Doug_Schepers 16:15:35 -Rick_Byers 16:15:37 -[IPcaller] 16:15:45 -mbrubeck 16:15:46 RWC_WebEven()11:00AM has ended 16:15:46 Attendees were Scott_González, Olli_Pettay, +358.718.00aaaa, Rick_Byers, Doug_Schepers, +1.206.697.aabb, mbrubeck, [IPcaller] 16:17:55 smaug_ has joined #webevents 16:20:02 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:20:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 16:27:22 ArtB: FYI, I'll be there in Lyon the whole week 16:33:42 zakim, bye 16:33:42 Zakim has left #webevents 16:33:46 rrsagent, bye 16:33:46 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-webevents-actions.rdf : 16:33:46 ACTION: barstow start a CfC to publish TEv2 as a WG Note [1] 16:33:46 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-webevents-irc#T15-27-59