14:55:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:55:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-irc
14:55:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
14:55:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
14:55:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:27 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:55:27 <trackbot> Date: 25 September 2012
14:55:37 <matt> zakim, ping me in 4
14:55:37 <Zakim> ok, matt
14:57:46 <Zakim> HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:52 <pal> pal has joined #html-media
14:57:58 <Zakim> +markw
14:59:03 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-media
14:59:08 <Zakim> + +1.310.210.aaaa
14:59:10 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #html-media
14:59:13 <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0033.html
14:59:20 <pal> zakim, i am aaaa
14:59:21 <Zakim> +pal; got it
14:59:37 <Zakim> matt, you asked to be pinged at this time
14:59:46 <matt> zakim, dial matt-voip
14:59:46 <Zakim> ok, matt; the call is being made
14:59:48 <Zakim> +Matt
14:59:51 <kstreeter> kstreeter has joined #html-media
15:00:24 <Zakim> +Clarke
15:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.858.735.aabb
15:00:52 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:00:58 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:01:00 <kstreeter> zakim, aabb is me
15:01:01 <Zakim> +kstreeter; got it
15:01:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:01:17 <Zakim> + +1.206.218.aacc
15:01:23 <matt> zakim, mute me
15:01:23 <Zakim> Matt should now be muted
15:01:35 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
15:01:37 <ddorwin> ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:01:56 <acolwell> acolwell has joined #html-media
15:02:05 <Zakim> -markw
15:02:16 <paulc> Having trouble getting thru to Zakim
15:02:36 <Zakim> +ddorwin
15:02:55 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:03:02 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #html-media
15:03:08 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft.a] has paulc
15:03:08 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:03:21 <Zakim> +markw
15:03:22 <johnsim> zakim, please list
15:03:22 <Zakim> I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM, IA_Team()10:00AM, WAI_RDWG()9:30AM, WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, RWC_WebEven()11:00AM, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM,
15:03:22 <Zakim> ... Team_(10THI)10:00AM, HTML_WG()11:00AM, SW_(FORCE)11:00AM active
15:03:22 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)11:00AM, T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, Team_(webdocs)15:00Z, WAI_UAWG(CHAIRS)10:30AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, Team_Validat()11:00AM,
15:03:22 <Zakim> ... HTML_WG(HTMLT)11:00AM, SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:03:36 <paulc> Looking for a scribe for today
15:03:38 <adrianba> zakim, code?
15:03:38 <Zakim> the conference code is 63342 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), adrianba
15:03:53 <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Matt (muted), Clarke, kstreeter, [Microsoft], +1.206.218.aacc, ddorwin, [Microsoft.a], markw
15:03:54 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has paulc
15:04:21 <johnsim> zakim, [MIcrosoft] is me
15:04:21 <Zakim> +johnsim; got it
15:04:23 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:04:34 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:04:34 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
15:04:36 <johnsim> zakim, who is on the phone
15:04:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', johnsim
15:04:37 <matt> zakim, aacc is acolwell
15:04:38 <Zakim> +acolwell; got it
15:04:41 <matt> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Matt (muted), Clarke, kstreeter, johnsim, acolwell, ddorwin, [Microsoft.a], markw, adrianba
15:04:43 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has paulc
15:05:00 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aadd
15:06:09 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
15:06:14 <matt> zakim, unmute me
15:06:14 <Zakim> Matt should no longer be muted
15:06:35 <matt> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Matt, Clarke, kstreeter, johnsim, acolwell, ddorwin, markw, adrianba, +1.650.214.aadd
15:06:42 <johnsim> scribe:johnsim
15:06:45 <paulc_> paulc_ has joined #html-media
15:06:51 <paulc_> reconnecting
15:07:05 <Zakim> +??P54
15:07:07 <paulc_> dropped first from zakim and then from the call
15:07:09 <paulc_> rejoiing
15:07:19 <matt> zakim, Steven_Robertson is aadd
15:07:19 <Zakim> sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named 'Steven_Robertson'
15:07:22 <BobLund> zakim, ??p54 is me
15:07:22 <Zakim> +BobLund; got it
15:07:23 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:07:27 <matt> zakim, aadd is Steven_Robertson
15:07:28 <Zakim> +Steven_Robertson; got it
15:07:31 <matt> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Matt, Clarke, kstreeter, johnsim, acolwell, ddorwin, markw, adrianba, Steven_Robertson, BobLund, [Microsoft]
15:07:37 <matt> zakim, mute me
15:07:37 <Zakim> Matt should now be muted
15:08:01 <BobLund> zakim, mute me
15:08:01 <Zakim> BobLund should now be muted
15:08:20 <johnsim> rollcall DONE
15:08:30 <strobe> strobe has joined #html-media
15:08:32 <johnsim> topic: rollcall
15:08:55 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:08:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:09:14 <MartinSoukup> MartinSoukup has joined #html-media
15:09:21 <johnsim> topic:minutes
15:09:25 <paulc_> http://www.w3.org/2012/08/28-html-media-minutes.html
15:09:31 <johnsim> noted
15:09:41 <johnsim> topic:action items
15:09:48 <johnsim> none for media source extension
15:09:59 <johnsim> topic:base line document
15:10:00 <Zakim> +MartinSoukup
15:10:02 <paulc_> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
15:10:58 <paulc_> Outstanding bugs: http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej
15:11:06 <johnsim> topic: outstanding bugs
15:11:18 <johnsim> topic: actions from the previous meeting
15:11:30 <johnsim> bug 18400 - 
15:12:12 <paulc_> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18400
15:12:24 <johnsim> Adrian working on this one and still pending
15:12:32 <paulc_> Bug 17000: Define a capability detection mechanism
15:12:51 <paulc_> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17000
15:13:57 <johnsim> John and Adrian to discuss this item
15:14:42 <matt> zakim, who is noisy?
15:14:52 <Zakim> matt, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:14:55 <johnsim> 17002 - two action items
15:15:01 <paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0025.html 
15:15:44 <johnsim> series of questions and six different questions - long thread with Sylvia
15:17:21 <johnsim> Paul: need to get some input from Sylvia
15:17:49 <johnsim> aaron: filed bug against the HTML spec, and not sure what to do with the media fragment issue
15:18:05 <paulc_> HTML5 bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18971
15:18:24 <johnsim> Aaron: i believe that is what unblocks the media source issue
15:18:39 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:18:53 <paulc_> What is status now of 17002: ) Bug 17002: Specify SourceID to AudioTrack.id & VideoTrack.id mappings
15:19:47 <paulc_> 6. Should I change the proposed fix to Bug 17002 to the following so the
15:20:04 <paulc_> solution is independent of the id field?
15:20:11 <adrianba> q+
15:20:50 <paulc_> ack ad
15:21:01 <johnsim> Adrian: this is an area where we are just starting to do the research - my preference without more info is to keep the string - more intuitive than the way the other methods work
15:21:22 <johnsim> Question is still outstanding and we will have to track this
15:21:53 <johnsim> bug 17006
15:22:06 <paulc_>  Bug 17006: <track> Setting track language & kind when the information is in a manifest
15:22:20 <johnsim> email thread started by Aaron - some response - summarize where we are?
15:22:31 <paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0024.html
15:22:39 <paulc_> see Bob's response in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0027.html
15:23:16 <johnsim> Aaron: this one, i think i have plenty of information, still need to sort out what happens when language info is not in the track metadata
15:23:35 <johnsim> Aaron: media source not constrained to DASH, so have to handle case where language information is not present
15:23:56 <johnsim> Aaron will continue to do research on 17006
15:24:20 <paulc_> Bug 17094: Define segment formats for MPEG2-TS
15:24:42 <johnsim> Bob Lund sent email on this item
15:24:46 <paulc_> Bob's message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0013.html
15:24:52 <Zakim> -markw
15:25:26 <BobLund> zakim, unmute me
15:25:26 <Zakim> BobLund should no longer be muted
15:25:27 <Zakim> +markw
15:25:47 <paulc_> Aaron asked 8 questions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0021.html
15:25:54 <johnsim> Aaron: i think this one is getting to the point where there needs to be a pretty technical discussion, transport stream spec has resulted in lots of questions, TS is very different than the other two formats we have
15:26:03 <adrianba> q+
15:26:26 <BobLund> q+
15:26:42 <adrianba> q- later
15:26:52 <adrianba> q
15:26:54 <adrianba> q
15:26:56 <adrianba> q?
15:27:03 <adrianba> s/q//
15:27:14 <johnsim> bob lund: responded to your questions
15:28:24 <paulc_> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0041.html for more answers
15:28:33 <paulc_> ack bob
15:30:12 <paulc_> ack ad
15:30:12 <johnsim> adrian: question on goal of MPEG2 TS - Aaron made the comment, adding MPEG2 TS support it should enable consuming HLS content. is that the goal?
15:30:30 <johnsim> Bob: HLS but also DASH profiles that use MPEG2 TS
15:30:39 <markw> q+
15:30:59 <johnsim> yes
15:31:25 <matt> zakim, drop me
15:31:25 <Zakim> Matt is being disconnected
15:31:26 <Zakim> -Matt
15:31:31 <matt> zakim, dial matt-voip
15:31:31 <Zakim> ok, matt; the call is being made
15:31:33 <Zakim> +Matt
15:31:35 <paulc_> ack markw
15:31:44 <matt> zakim, mute me
15:31:44 <Zakim> Matt should now be muted
15:32:22 <johnsim> Mark: HLS support, assure that HLS compliant content can be playable in MSE, or second goal is that you can encode for MSE
15:32:40 <johnsim> Mark: believe the second goal is what we are targeting
15:33:12 <markw> second goal is that you can encode HLS content that also works with MSE
15:33:34 <Zakim> -Matt
15:33:51 <Zakim> + +1.617.253.aaee - is perhaps thomas
15:34:06 <paulc_> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:34:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Clarke, kstreeter, johnsim, acolwell, ddorwin, adrianba, Steven_Robertson, BobLund, [Microsoft], MartinSoukup, markw, thomas
15:34:35 <johnsim> Kevin: segment encryption scheme alignment with DASH content - IVs and Keys set in the DASH manifest - with signaling
15:34:41 <paulc_> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:34:41 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:35:06 <paulc_> Bug 16998: Change sourceAppend() to take a URL and optional range parameters
15:35:06 <johnsim> Bug 16998
15:35:25 <BobLund> zakim, mute me
15:35:25 <Zakim> BobLund should now be muted
15:35:38 <johnsim> Aaron: created 18962 & 18963
15:35:51 <matt> zakim, aaee is Matt
15:35:51 <Zakim> sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
15:35:59 <matt> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:35:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Clarke, kstreeter, johnsim, acolwell, ddorwin, adrianba, Steven_Robertson, BobLund (muted), [Microsoft], MartinSoukup, markw, thomas
15:36:02 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
15:36:05 <matt> zakim, thomas is me
15:36:05 <Zakim> +matt; got it
15:36:05 <paulc_> ) [Bug 18962] New: Allow appending with XHR
15:36:26 <paulc_> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18962 
15:36:31 <strobe> zakim, I am Steven_Robetson
15:36:31 <Zakim> sorry, strobe, I do not see a party named 'Steven_Robetson'
15:36:48 <matt> zakim, Steven_Robertson is strobe
15:36:48 <Zakim> +strobe; got it
15:37:00 <johnsim> Aaron: created to satisfy the action item - split it into these two bugs - to gauge a sense of priorities of these two new features and to kick off work on them if considered high enough priority
15:37:31 <strobe> matt: heh, actually i just misspelled my own name
15:37:52 <adrianba> q+ to talk about appending with XHR
15:38:07 <paulc_> ack ad
15:38:07 <Zakim> adrianba, you wanted to talk about appending with XHR
15:38:12 <johnsim> Aaron: using XHR and interfacing it to media source, using default XHR beaviors
15:38:12 <markw> q+
15:39:09 <johnsim> Adrian: mixed feelings about using XHR here. XHR interface does include all of the things - generic HTTP requests - but can't quite see how to map the data from the request and feeding it into the media engine without going through javascript
15:39:53 <paulc_> ack mark
15:40:07 <paulc_> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:40:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see pal, Clarke, kstreeter, johnsim, acolwell, ddorwin, adrianba, strobe, BobLund (muted), [Microsoft], MartinSoukup, markw, matt
15:40:09 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
15:40:20 <matt> zakim, mute me
15:40:20 <Zakim> matt should now be muted
15:40:38 <johnsim> Mark: i think XHR approach is the right one, but i know if this is a high priority, just an optimization for constrained platforms, you can get a blob from XHR, without data being copied into javascript stack
15:40:47 <adrianba> q+
15:41:23 <johnsim> Mark: i think we can do is to propose to the web apps working group
15:41:48 <matt> q?
15:41:53 <matt> ack adrianba 
15:42:12 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-media
15:42:42 <johnsim> Adrian: Mark has reminded me implicitly that we do have a proposal from MS for stream API - that might be a way of achieving this - for returning a stream object from XHR
15:43:00 <paulc__> paulc__ has joined #html-media
15:43:06 <paulc__> Paul is back
15:43:11 <paulc__> q?
15:43:29 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2011OctDec/1494.html
15:43:39 <adrianba> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/streams-api/raw-file/tip/Overview.htm
15:44:17 <strobe> agreed, not too urgent from what we've seen
15:44:23 <paulc__> [Bug 18963] New: Provide a mechanism for rate limiting appending
15:44:45 <paulc__> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18963
15:44:56 <strobe> q+
15:44:59 <johnsim> Aaron: provide a way for UA to signal when it is getting overflowed with data
15:45:26 <johnsim> Aaron: when it reaches a place where it will have to remove media from the source buffer, runningout of memory, signal this so the application can back off appending
15:45:59 <adrianba> q+ to talk about general limiting signals
15:46:08 <johnsim> Aaron: then get a signal to say "okay to append more data" . need to get a sense of what people think of this and relative priority of the work
15:46:14 <paulc__> ack strobe
15:46:51 <johnsim> Strobe: one thing we have seen, have a fixed discovery mechanism, and notification that either eviction is about to happen or has happened. 
15:47:16 <johnsim> Strobe: being able to figure this out in before hand would be helpful in defining a buffer strategy
15:47:18 <paulc__> ack adri
15:47:18 <Zakim> adrianba, you wanted to talk about general limiting signals
15:47:53 <johnsim> Adrian: we haven't gotten too far into thinking about this specific question, which is potential or actual size of the append buffer - just want to highlight a more general question which has come up at MS
15:48:29 <johnsim> Adrian: may be signals from UA to application that indicate that a different rate of appending needs to be done or a different bitrate is desirable - 
15:49:00 <johnsim> Adrian: ex) network working great but device is not capable of doing processing and rendering, you might give the user a worse experience than if you dropped to a lower bitrate
15:49:10 <johnsim> Adrian: there were some bugs in HTML5 postponed in this area
15:49:44 <johnsim> Adrian: similar feature area - ways UA needs to signal that a different bitrate might be desirable - buffers getting full or quality not good
15:50:01 <adrianba> zakim, who is noisy?
15:50:06 <paulc__> [Bug 18920] New: addSourceBuffer parameter type should be optional
15:50:12 <Zakim> adrianba, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: acolwell (51%), johnsim (5%), ddorwin (29%), [Microsoft] (14%)
15:50:31 <paulc__> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18920
15:50:45 <MartinSoukup> for buffer management would threshold events be helpful to allow the appender to understand back-pressure?
15:51:10 <johnsim> Aaron: main reason to suggest this one, type parameter - a little back and forth whether UA should detect the byte stream format and reject if not the type specified
15:51:25 <strobe> q+
15:51:38 <paulc__> ack strobe
15:51:56 <johnsim> strobe: in favor of failing early - helpful to get that up front
15:52:22 <johnsim> Aaron: mhy preference is to say what type you are going to append and then get an error if it is not correct
15:52:29 <adrianba> q+
15:52:35 <paulc__> ack adr
15:52:46 <johnsim> adrian: believe content type should be specified
15:53:42 <paulc__> [Bug 18709]  Add SourceBuffer.remove() method
15:54:02 <paulc__> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18709
15:54:27 <johnsim> Aaron: just wanted to make sure - changed "flush" to "remove" and changed parameters - wanted some buyoff from the group before adding it
15:54:32 <markw> +1
15:54:34 <adrianba> +1
15:54:41 <strobe> lgtm
15:54:43 <strobe> +1
15:54:47 <strobe> erm, conventions
15:54:48 <markw> ship it
15:55:15 <paulc__> [Bug 18601] Contradictory requirements for initialization segments
15:55:32 <paulc__> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18601 
15:55:52 <johnsim> Aaron: this bug is the case where part of the spec says - init segments are optional - and other parts which absolutely rely on the first init segment - 
15:56:33 <johnsim> Aaron: wanted to discuss why the original language was there to make it optional - since formats in specs use them - or should we remove the language around being optional
15:56:39 <BobLund> zakim, unmute me
15:56:39 <Zakim> BobLund should no longer be muted
15:56:40 <johnsim> Aaron: should init segments still be optional?
15:56:43 <kstreeter> q+
15:56:45 <BobLund> q+
15:57:01 <paulc__> ack ks
15:57:16 <johnsim> Kevin: there are formats that can be self initialized. 
15:57:35 <strobe> q+
15:58:05 <johnsim> Kevin: I think having that flexibility might be valuable. one thing to consider doing is rather than evaluate all cases where required, treat self-initialized segments as initialization segments WITH each segment that is appended
15:58:13 <strobe> q-, that's exactly what i was going to say
15:58:26 <paulc__> ack bob
15:58:34 <strobe> q-
15:58:52 <johnsim> Bob: I think we may want to wait until we decide what we will do about MPEG2 TS - that format may be unusual - init must be replicated in media segments
15:59:05 <johnsim> Bob: might want init segment to be optional in that case
15:59:50 <johnsim> Aaron: the one thing i wanted to point out, init segment in dash context, what we call MSE Init Segment followed by what we call media segment in MSE
16:00:35 <johnsim> Aaron: encourage people to add comments to this bug
16:01:36 <johnsim> other items on agenda - ran out of time
16:01:53 <johnsim> Aaron: another update to the specification before the next meeting
16:02:20 <johnsim> Scribe for next call not determined
16:02:35 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
16:02:41 <Zakim> -BobLund
16:03:12 <Zakim> -Clarke
16:03:14 <Zakim> -MartinSoukup
16:03:16 <matt> zakim, drop me
16:03:16 <Zakim> matt is being disconnected
16:03:17 <Zakim> -matt
16:03:17 <Zakim> -markw
16:03:18 <Zakim> -pal
16:03:19 <Zakim> -strobe
16:03:21 <Zakim> -kstreeter
16:03:23 <Zakim> -acolwell
16:03:23 <Zakim> -adrianba
16:03:25 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:03:27 <Zakim> -ddorwin
16:03:31 <Zakim> -johnsim
16:03:32 <Zakim> HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended
16:03:32 <Zakim> Attendees were markw, +1.310.210.aaaa, pal, Matt, Clarke, +1.858.735.aabb, kstreeter, +1.206.218.aacc, ddorwin, paulc, johnsim, adrianba, acolwell, +1.650.214.aadd, BobLund,
16:03:35 <Zakim> ... MartinSoukup, +1.617.253.aaee, strobe
16:03:37 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
16:05:24 <kstreeter> kstreeter has left #html-media