IRC log of ldp on 2012-09-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ldp
13:58:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:58:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:58:23 [sandro]
trackbot, you have the worst parser I have ever seen.
13:58:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ldp
13:58:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be LDP
13:58:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
13:58:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:58:26 [trackbot]
Date: 24 September 2012
13:58:26 [trackbot]
Sorry, sandro, I don't understand 'trackbot, you have the worst parser I have ever seen.'. Please refer to for help
13:58:27 [Zakim]
13:58:37 [Zakim]
13:58:41 [Zakim]
13:58:43 [sandro]
Zakim, who is on the call?
13:58:45 [Ruben]
Ruben has joined #ldp
13:58:47 [Zakim]
13:58:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben
13:58:51 [Zakim]
13:58:53 [Ruben]
zakim, mute me
13:58:55 [Zakim]
Ruben should now be muted
13:59:22 [svillata]
zakim, ??P4 is me
13:59:22 [Zakim]
+svillata; got it
13:59:54 [Zakim]
14:00:02 [Zakim]
14:00:02 [dret]
dret has joined #LDP
14:00:31 [Zakim]
+ +61.4.331.2.aaaa
14:00:43 [Zakim]
14:00:51 [Zakim]
14:00:58 [Zakim]
14:01:00 [ahaller2]
zakim,+61.4.331.2.aaaa is me
14:01:00 [Zakim]
+ahaller2; got it
14:01:05 [Zakim]
14:01:10 [Zakim]
14:01:11 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:01:12 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
14:01:13 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
14:01:13 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
14:01:15 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #ldp
14:01:21 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P19 is me
14:01:21 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:01:29 [Zakim]
14:01:43 [jkopecky]
jkopecky has joined #ldp
14:01:46 [bblfish]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:47 [SteveS]
zakim, [IBM] is me
14:01:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben (muted), svillata, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, ahaller2, bblfish, dret, ??P17, MacTed (muted), AndyS, [IBM]
14:01:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jkopecky, bblfish, dret, Ruben, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, ahaller2, domel, svillata, AndyS, betehess, MacTed, stevebattle, nandana, oberger,
14:01:47 [Zakim]
... cgueret, ericP, trackbot, Yves, sandro
14:01:48 [roger]
roger has joined #ldp
14:01:50 [Zakim]
+SteveS; got it
14:01:51 [oberger]
zakim, ??P17 is me
14:01:53 [Zakim]
+oberger; got it
14:02:18 [oberger]
hi Arnaud
14:02:23 [Zakim]
14:02:38 [jkopecky]
zakim, ??P22 is me
14:02:38 [Zakim]
+jkopecky; got it
14:03:22 [Zakim]
+ +44.208.573.aabb
14:03:30 [JohnArwe]
JohnArwe has joined #ldp
14:03:37 [Zakim]
14:03:44 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben (muted), svillata, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, ahaller2, bblfish, dret, oberger, MacTed (muted), AndyS, SteveS, jkopecky,
14:03:47 [Zakim]
... +44.208.573.aabb, JohnArwe
14:04:48 [Ashok_Malhotra]
scribenick: Ashok_Malhotra
14:04:52 [sandro]
zakim, aabb is RogerMenday
14:04:52 [Zakim]
+RogerMenday; got it
14:04:53 [Zakim]
14:05:09 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Topic: Admin
14:05:17 [Zakim]
14:05:37 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Minutes of last meeting:
14:05:44 [SteveS]
+1 Sept 17 minutes
14:06:07 [Ashok_Malhotra]
RESOLUTION: Minutes of last meeting approved
14:06:13 [Zakim]
14:06:22 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: Next meeting Oct 1
14:06:43 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Topic: f2f
14:06:45 [bblfish]
q+ for TPAC
14:06:54 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: Please register for TPAC
14:07:24 [roger]
I plan to come to the F2F (RogerMenday) on the Thursday, but unfortunately not the Friday.
14:08:03 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Sandro: 16 people registerede now ... I will ask for a larger room
14:08:17 [bblfish]
that's bad interface on the html page (sometimes you cannot uncheck some buttons)
14:08:25 [kalpa]
kalpa has joined #ldp
14:08:39 [Ashok_Malhotra]
14:08:53 [bblfish]
14:08:54 [Arnaud]
14:09:22 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Henry: I put a session together for Wed that should interest folks
14:09:33 [Arnaud]
ack bblfish
14:09:33 [Zakim]
bblfish, you wanted to discuss TPAC
14:09:57 [bblfish]
rww & webid community Monday, Tuesday.
14:11:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.937.279.aacc
14:11:17 [Zakim]
14:11:50 [kalpa]
zakim, aacc is me
14:11:50 [Zakim]
+kalpa; got it
14:12:06 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: There are a lot of meetings at TPAC so folks will have conflicts
14:12:23 [Zakim]
14:12:34 [Ashok_Malhotra]
... perhaps reserve a slot at LDP meeting
14:12:52 [Arnaud]
14:12:56 [Ashok_Malhotra]
... for WebID
14:13:14 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Topic: Issues
14:13:32 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Topic: Open Actions
14:14:33 [ghard]
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14:14:44 [Ashok_Malhotra]
ACTION 10 is done ... close
14:14:44 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 10
14:15:04 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Close ACTION-10
14:15:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-10 Convert member submission to Editor's Draft, with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas closed
14:15:59 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Close ACTION-12
14:15:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-12 Define Turtle as the required serialization format for LDP closed
14:16:03 [oberger]
What's GSP ?
14:16:33 [Zakim]
14:16:34 [SteveS]
GSP => Graph Store Protocol
14:16:36 [sandro]
GSP = SPARQL 1.1 HTTP Graph Store Protocol
14:16:47 [ghard]
Zakim, ??P39 is ghard
14:16:47 [Zakim]
+ghard; got it
14:16:50 [oberger]
thx SteveS and sandro
14:17:06 [ghard]
Sorry I'm late.
14:17:10 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Close ACTION-13
14:17:10 [trackbot]
ACTION-13 Add topic on wiki on LDP vs GSP on home page closed
14:17:14 [AndyS]
14:17:15 [JohnArwe] is the topic; I just updated the action with this link too
14:17:31 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Topic: Issues
14:17:43 [roger]
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14:18:57 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud explains issue process
14:19:36 [bblfish]
where is the URL for issue-2?
14:19:45 [JohnArwe]
14:20:05 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Andy: Issue-2 asks whether LDP will address versioning
14:20:11 [JohnArwe]
(the agenda page has various links to the issues/actions lists)
14:20:45 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: Keep it open
14:20:49 [bblfish]
+1 for use case
14:21:03 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Andy: Need use cases and scenarios
14:21:29 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: Andy can you provide a usecase
14:22:05 [Ashok_Malhotra]
ACTION Andy to provide usecase for Issue-2
14:22:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-15 - Provide usecase for Issue-2 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-10-01].
14:22:16 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Issue 2 is opened
14:22:26 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Issue 3 is opened
14:25:24 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Discussion on Issue 5
14:25:43 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Yves: WG can decided to put explanatory text in Wiki
14:25:50 [dret]
14:25:55 [JohnArwe]
positioning "feels" more like wiki content to me... GSP etc will evolve, moving targets, easier to update if outside of spec
14:26:20 [SteveS]
agree with wiki or WG Note if it gets more content
14:26:38 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Yves: We can even add a pointer from the WG home page
14:26:45 [JohnArwe]
+1 having spec point to wiki for positioning
14:26:50 [Yves]
FAQ entry
14:27:01 [Ashok_Malhotra]
14:27:46 [Arnaud]
ack dret
14:27:48 [AndyS]
ack dret
14:27:52 [Arnaud]
ack Ashok
14:28:01 [stevebattle]
14:28:03 [dret]
14:28:14 [dret]
14:28:27 [Arnaud]
ack steve
14:28:44 [stevebattle]
14:28:49 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Ashok: We could ask Schema WG if they have any thoughts on this
14:29:12 [SteveS]
+1 for moving ISSUE-6 to open, as was going to raise as well based on previous feedback/discussion with bblfish
14:29:22 [AndyS] (XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL)
14:29:47 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Discussion on linking emails to issues
14:30:30 [Arnaud]
14:30:35 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Yves: The bot should take care of it
14:30:53 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Eric: Should have issue in title
14:31:58 [dret]
14:32:07 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Open Issue-6
14:32:12 [JohnArwe]
NP keeping the issue open, not sure I'd read LDBP to prohibit the use of user-defined data types (as an extension). I thought it said only define specs in terms of a relatively small set of types that "everyone" should be able to support using OTS parts.
14:32:32 [Arnaud]
14:32:40 [JohnArwe]
... User-defined types could still be annotated through additional rdf:type predicates.
14:32:50 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Topic: Use Cases and Requirements
14:33:41 [bblfish]
Don't think you can use rdf:type for datatypes.
14:33:51 [bblfish]
A datatype is a function from a literal to a thing.
14:34:06 [Ashok_Malhotra]
SteveBattle: Will add usecases in 2 weeks and create editors draft just ahead of the meeting
14:34:06 [bblfish]
xsd:Int("2") = 2
14:34:16 [JohnArwe]
ah ... "only" ... limiting, yes
14:34:59 [Ashok_Malhotra]
... and add any issues raised to tracker by Oct 8
14:35:04 [bblfish]
xsd:hexBinary("ad3") = xsd:int("2771") = 2771
14:35:22 [bblfish]
that would be completely different from saying "ad3" is a HexBinary.
14:36:34 [JohnArwe]
@bblfish: parse error ;-)
14:37:03 [bblfish]
using the usual functional notation
14:37:10 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Discussion on coordination between editors on Usecases document
14:37:44 [bblfish]
"ad3"^^xsd:hexBinary is a function from strings to ( heu, binaries not numbers, so true my above example was wrong )
14:37:57 [Arnaud]
14:38:39 [oberger]
+1 for shortname 'ldbp'
14:38:59 [sandro]
no required connection between specs and namespaces.
14:39:13 [bblfish]
you need a name for the ontology too right?
14:39:14 [Yves]
use<cute name> until is stabilize
14:39:28 [sandro]
14:39:57 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Discussion of document URIs
14:40:05 [oberger] ?
14:40:44 [SteveS]
+1 to going with /ns/ now with appropriate "draft" disclaimer
14:40:55 [AndyS]
Have has a dated URI ever been updated? (successfully)
14:41:14 [bblfish]
It depends a bit how much you think it is going to change
14:41:50 [bblfish]
can one have a redirect from one namespace to another?
14:42:12 [stevebattle]
I prefer LDP over LDBP.
14:42:16 [dret]
nope, renaming them does not exist as a concept.
14:42:32 [Ashok_Malhotra]
+1 to LDP
14:43:34 [bblfish]
what's the b for?
14:43:40 [bblfish]
ah basic
14:43:52 [bblfish]
is this for the ontology btw?
14:44:10 [SteveS]
LDP => Linked Data Platform (our WG name), LDBP => Linked Data Basic Profile (member submission name)
14:44:13 [oberger]
basic profile doesn't convey anything for me
14:44:18 [ahaller2]
+1 to LDP
14:44:31 [svillata]
+1 to LDP
14:44:35 [oberger]
user profile ?
14:45:01 [oberger]
like BPR or BPC isn't easily identifiable to Linked Data Resource
14:45:07 [dret]
think arnaud is right: we might have more than one spec, so just "using up" our WG name may be a bit premature
14:45:14 [MacTed]
+1 LDP if "basic" is needed we could go /ns/ldp-basic or /ns/ldp/basic or some such
14:46:30 [Arnaud]
14:46:55 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: People seem to favor LDP for shortname
14:47:15 [bblfish]
you could have ldp/basic
14:47:18 [bblfish]
14:47:30 [bblfish]
14:47:33 [oberger]
Linux Documentation Project
14:47:35 [oberger]
14:47:36 [bblfish]
14:47:50 [ericP]
don't forget about ETLAs
14:47:59 [sandro]
The Linux Documentation Project
14:48:05 [bblfish]
well ldp, is going to replace the Linux Documentation project ;-)
14:48:22 [sandro]
STRAWPOLL: use ldp for namespace name
14:48:24 [sandro]
+1 ldp
14:48:28 [ericP]
+1 to ldp
14:48:29 [jkopecky]
+1 LDP
14:48:32 [stevebattle]
+1 ldp
14:48:32 [oberger]
so how do we name BPRs and BPCs ?
14:48:34 [bblfish]
Liberal Democrat Party
14:48:39 [Yves]
14:48:56 [dret]
zero objections
14:48:58 [bblfish]
Lucky Duck Productions
14:49:02 [SteveS]
no objection
14:49:29 [sandro]
+1 ns/ldp
14:49:37 [Ashok_Malhotra]
RESOLUTION: use ldp for namespace name
14:49:40 [SteveS]
jkopecky: not a bad suggestion
14:49:48 [stevebattle]
"/ns/ldp/bpr" "/ns/ldp/bpc" ?
14:49:55 [JohnArwe]
* too bad there's a D in there, LP would be great for the (Monty Python reference warning) Looney Party
14:50:17 [jkopecky]
(ldp) basic resource, (ldp) basic collection
14:50:26 [jkopecky]
ldp/br ldp/bc
14:50:49 [Arnaud]
14:51:00 [oberger]
14:51:08 [oberger]
(container / collection ?)
14:51:29 [oberger]
s/Basic/Core/ ?
14:52:10 [SteveS]
oberger and jkopecky I have opinions and some history why things like container were used, trying to listen to discussion though
14:52:44 [bblfish]
I think for the ontology it makes sense to have a stable namespace
14:52:56 [stevebattle]
+1 undated /ns/
14:53:36 [sandro]
Arnaud: If anyone supports using a dated URL for development, please speak up and argue for it....
14:54:00 [JohnArwe]
aside from adding a dollop of work on all document owners (editor of specs, test cases) to make One More Change at some future date, what's the Advantage of changing dated ns's?
14:54:06 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Eric: Re. document URIs ... we don't yet know how the material will be factored out
14:55:03 [sandro]
sandro: I think it's okay to use LDP for now and if we change our mind later on, that's okay. Leave /ns/ldp as *unused* if we are done with it.
14:55:05 [oberger]
is anyone implementing really ?
14:55:13 [MacTed]
real placeholders should be
14:56:41 [oberger]
14:56:53 [bblfish]
the WebID cert ontology is in ns
14:57:06 [bblfish]
and we chnaged it a bit - removing some terms, adding others
14:57:21 [SteveS]
+1 for /ns/ldp/
14:57:33 [sandro]
action: eric to confirm with W3C director that if we use /ns/ldp now, we'll be allowed to change to a different /ns/ later if there's a good reason.
14:57:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-16 - Confirm with W3C director that if we use /ns/ldp now, we'll be allowed to change to a different /ns/ later if there's a good reason. [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-10-01].
14:57:56 [stevebattle]
I note that Eric's recent issue-6 test email has not been added as a related email yet.
14:58:32 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Arnaud: AOB?
14:58:34 [Arnaud]
14:58:48 [Ashok_Malhotra]
14:58:50 [ghard]
14:58:59 [Zakim]
14:59:01 [Zakim]
14:59:04 [dret]
thanks ashok, thanks arnaud!
14:59:06 [Zakim]
14:59:10 [Zakim]
14:59:12 [Zakim]
14:59:15 [oberger]
bye all
14:59:17 [Zakim]
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14:59:23 [kalpa]
kalpa has left #ldp
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SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
14:59:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben, svillata, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, bblfish, dret, ahaller2, MacTed, AndyS, SteveS, oberger, jkopecky, +44.208.573.aabb, JohnArwe,
14:59:56 [Zakim]
... RogerMenday, Yves, +1.937.279.aacc, kalpa, ghard
15:08:31 [JohnArwe]
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SteveS_ has joined #ldp
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