16:42:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:42:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-ua-irc
16:42:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:42:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
16:42:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:42:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:42:12 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:42:12 <trackbot> Date: 20 September 2012
16:42:29 <kford> kford has joined #ua
16:52:42 <kford> zakim, agenda?
16:52:42 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
16:54:18 <kford> Agenda+ Levels Discussion https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc#gid=0
16:54:20 <kford> Agenda+ Finish off 2.8
16:54:36 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
16:54:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-ua-minutes.html kford
16:55:23 <kford> Regrets: Greg, Simon
16:56:40 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:56:47 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:57:39 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:00:39 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:00:54 <Jan> zakim, code?
17:00:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:01:22 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:01:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:01:48 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:01:48 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
17:05:28 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
17:05:29 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
17:14:03 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:18:10 <kford> Agenda+ 3.2.4 and 3.2.5
17:18:16 <kford> take up item 3
17:18:42 <jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0067.html
17:20:51 <kford> Scribe: KFord
17:21:08 <kford> JAN: This all seems good to me.
17:21:23 <kford> Group is in agreement.
17:21:32 <kford> zakim, close item 3
17:21:32 <Zakim> agendum 3, 3.2.4 and 3.2.5, closed
17:21:34 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:34 <Zakim> 1. Levels Discussion https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc#gid=0 [from kford]
17:21:36 <jeanne> resolved: add IER for 3.2.4 and 3.2.5
17:21:41 <kford> zakim, take up item 1
17:21:41 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Levels Discussion https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc#gid=0" taken up [from kford]
17:22:34 <kford> Group starting to review le3vels again.  Starting at 1.8.3.
17:22:53 <kford> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120920/
17:24:33 <kford> group agrees on level a for 1.8.3
17:25:13 <kford> Group agrees on level a for 1.8.3.
17:25:57 <kford> 1.8.4 agreement on level A.
17:26:47 <kford> JS: If people don't do this is this really an A?
17:27:01 <kford> Kim: For people with hand problems, orientation is really important.
17:27:18 <kford> 1.8.5 agreed to be level A.
17:27:32 <jallan> regrets+ Mark
17:28:47 <kford> JAN: Going back to 1.8.3 could that be a AA because sub-viewpoerts might not be able to comply if the environment only gives a limited amount of space.
17:30:19 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-fullscreen-20120703/
17:30:37 <kford> JAN: The SC is acceptable, it is in the intent.  I can take an action.
17:32:01 <Jan> "up to the limits of the operating environment (i.e., the operating system and/or higher level user agent)" to replace "up to the limits of the physical display screen"
17:32:49 <kford> Group agreement on 1.8.6 is level A.
17:33:40 <kford> 1.8.7, agreement on staying at level A.
17:34:49 <kford> kford: Given the complexity I think this needs to go down to AA.  I don't want to fail for someone not doing part of this.
17:35:30 <kford> group in agreement with some hesitation.
17:35:45 <kford> 1.8.8 moves to AA.
17:36:38 <kford> JAN: This isn't a show stopper.  I say move to AA.
17:38:54 <kford> 1.8.9 moves to AA.
17:39:27 <kford> 1.8.10 stays at AA.
17:39:54 <kford> 1.8.11 stays at AA.
17:40:59 <kford> KFord: I think 1.8.12 needs to be AAA.
17:41:34 <kford> Kim: I see this as a work around for headings and there are a lot of documents where this will help.
17:42:10 <jeanne> KP: this will help a number of different disabilities
17:42:20 <jeanne> KF: No one does this. 
17:42:46 <jeanne> ... how to handle dynamic pages.  What you mark may be not there or totally different so you always have to look through the DOM. 
17:42:56 <jeanne> ... it could have some serious performance impact to the page. 
17:43:49 <kford> JAN: I can agree that the persistence part can be hard.
17:44:12 <jeanne> JS: would this require changing the DOM?
17:44:34 <jeanne> KF: no, there are a number of ways to do it, it could be the URL, or some kind of datastore. 
17:45:01 <jeanne> Jan: I think some of the technical details of this make it tricky enough to be AAA.  
17:45:46 <jeanne> KP: Is this one of the things that would be done if people were motivated? The George example is very important. 
17:46:10 <jeanne> KF: I think the people that want to build this will, regardless of whether it is AA or AAA. 
17:47:03 <jeanne> KP: So you think it is technically difficult enough that it is not in our best interests to make it AA? 
17:47:37 <jeanne> KF: The edge cases -- especially dynamic content -- are difficult enough to justify AAA.  
17:48:05 <jeanne> KP: We should identify this as a feature that needs to be solved. 
17:49:10 <kford> 1.8.12: Group agrees 1.8.12 goes to AAA.
17:49:27 <jeanne> JS: We should send this to R&D as they maintain a list of ideas for grad students wanting work
17:50:11 <kford> 1.8.13 stays at AA.
17:50:25 <jeanne> action: jeanne to forward a request to RDWG that they suggest that students looking for projects build an extention that allows people to put navigation marks in a page - 1.8.12
17:50:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-759 - Forward a request to RDWG that they suggest that students looking for projects build an extention that allows people to put navigation marks in a page - 1.8.12 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-09-27].
17:50:46 <kford> 1.9.1 stays at AA.
17:52:49 <kford> Group talking about 1.9.1.  Does PDF have to do this?
17:53:02 <kford> JAN: I also don't think most peope are going to use this.
17:53:41 <kford> Change, 1.9.1 moves to AAA.
17:54:07 <kford> 1.9.2 stays at AA.
17:58:05 <kford> KFord: I have concerns about this.  It isn't well defined.  Very complex to define what relationships are really meant here.
17:59:21 <kford> More discussion.  JAN thought in page links were not covered, Jim did think they were.
17:59:31 <kford> 1.10.1 moves to AA.
18:00:13 <kford> 1.10.2 Moves to AAA.
18:01:08 <kford> 2.1.1 stays at A.
18:03:42 <jeanne> JR: Android always has keyboard focus, windows always has it.  iOS has it when Voiceover is turned on. 
18:04:03 <kford> A little discussion around how 2.1.2 works today.
18:04:20 <kford> 2.1.2 stays at level A.
18:05:12 <kford> 2.1.3 stays at A.
18:07:49 <jeanne> action: Jeanne to research whether the behavior of radio buttons staying selected is defined in HTML.  
18:07:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-760 - Research whether the behavior of radio buttons staying selected is defined in HTML.   [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-09-27].
18:16:49 <kford> 2.1.4 stays at A.
18:17:04 <kford> 2.1.5 stays at A.
18:17:29 <kford> \2.1.6 stays at A.
18:17:50 <kford> 2.2.1 stays at A.
18:18:12 <kford> 2.2.2 stays at A.
18:19:53 <kford> 2.2.3 stays at A.
18:20:39 <kford> Group talking about what term we mean here, document or source order.
18:20:58 <kford> Action: JA to clarify wording in 2.2.3
18:20:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-761 - Clarify wording in 2.2.3 [on Jim Allan - due 2012-09-27].
18:21:32 <kford> 2.2.4 stays at AA.
18:21:46 <jallan> action: jim to review 2.2.3 for language, do we mean tab, source, or document order? 
18:21:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-762 - Review 2.2.3 for language, do we mean tab, source, or document order?  [on Jim Allan - due 2012-09-27].
18:22:05 <jallan> close action 761
18:22:13 <jallan> close action-761
18:22:13 <trackbot> ACTION-761 Clarify wording in 2.2.3 closed
18:24:56 <kford> 2.3.1 stays at A.
18:25:34 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
18:25:36 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
18:25:47 <Zakim> -Jan
18:31:43 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/community/mobileacc/
19:04:07 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
19:04:10 <Zakim> -Jeanne
19:04:11 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:04:11 <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, Jim_Allan