IRC log of ua on 2012-09-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:42:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:42:07 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:42:09 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:42:09 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:42:11 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:42:11 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:42:12 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:42:12 [trackbot]
Date: 20 September 2012
16:42:29 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
16:52:42 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
16:52:42 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
16:54:18 [kford]
Agenda+ Levels Discussion
16:54:20 [kford]
Agenda+ Finish off 2.8
16:54:36 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:54:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kford
16:55:23 [kford]
Regrets: Greg, Simon
16:56:40 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:56:47 [Zakim]
16:57:39 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
17:00:39 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
17:00:54 [Jan]
zakim, code?
17:00:54 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, Jan
17:01:22 [Zakim]
17:01:28 [Zakim]
17:01:48 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:01:48 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
17:05:28 [Zakim]
17:05:29 [KimPatch]
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17:14:03 [Zakim]
17:18:10 [kford]
Agenda+ 3.2.4 and 3.2.5
17:18:16 [kford]
take up item 3
17:18:42 [jeanne]
17:20:51 [kford]
Scribe: KFord
17:21:08 [kford]
JAN: This all seems good to me.
17:21:23 [kford]
Group is in agreement.
17:21:32 [kford]
zakim, close item 3
17:21:32 [Zakim]
agendum 3, 3.2.4 and 3.2.5, closed
17:21:34 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:34 [Zakim]
1. Levels Discussion [from kford]
17:21:36 [jeanne]
resolved: add IER for 3.2.4 and 3.2.5
17:21:41 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
17:21:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Levels Discussion" taken up [from kford]
17:22:34 [kford]
Group starting to review le3vels again. Starting at 1.8.3.
17:22:53 [kford]
17:24:33 [kford]
group agrees on level a for 1.8.3
17:25:13 [kford]
Group agrees on level a for 1.8.3.
17:25:57 [kford]
1.8.4 agreement on level A.
17:26:47 [kford]
JS: If people don't do this is this really an A?
17:27:01 [kford]
Kim: For people with hand problems, orientation is really important.
17:27:18 [kford]
1.8.5 agreed to be level A.
17:27:32 [jallan]
regrets+ Mark
17:28:47 [kford]
JAN: Going back to 1.8.3 could that be a AA because sub-viewpoerts might not be able to comply if the environment only gives a limited amount of space.
17:30:19 [jeanne]
17:30:37 [kford]
JAN: The SC is acceptable, it is in the intent. I can take an action.
17:32:01 [Jan]
"up to the limits of the operating environment (i.e., the operating system and/or higher level user agent)" to replace "up to the limits of the physical display screen"
17:32:49 [kford]
Group agreement on 1.8.6 is level A.
17:33:40 [kford]
1.8.7, agreement on staying at level A.
17:34:49 [kford]
kford: Given the complexity I think this needs to go down to AA. I don't want to fail for someone not doing part of this.
17:35:30 [kford]
group in agreement with some hesitation.
17:35:45 [kford]
1.8.8 moves to AA.
17:36:38 [kford]
JAN: This isn't a show stopper. I say move to AA.
17:38:54 [kford]
1.8.9 moves to AA.
17:39:27 [kford]
1.8.10 stays at AA.
17:39:54 [kford]
1.8.11 stays at AA.
17:40:59 [kford]
KFord: I think 1.8.12 needs to be AAA.
17:41:34 [kford]
Kim: I see this as a work around for headings and there are a lot of documents where this will help.
17:42:10 [jeanne]
KP: this will help a number of different disabilities
17:42:20 [jeanne]
KF: No one does this.
17:42:46 [jeanne]
... how to handle dynamic pages. What you mark may be not there or totally different so you always have to look through the DOM.
17:42:56 [jeanne]
... it could have some serious performance impact to the page.
17:43:49 [kford]
JAN: I can agree that the persistence part can be hard.
17:44:12 [jeanne]
JS: would this require changing the DOM?
17:44:34 [jeanne]
KF: no, there are a number of ways to do it, it could be the URL, or some kind of datastore.
17:45:01 [jeanne]
Jan: I think some of the technical details of this make it tricky enough to be AAA.
17:45:46 [jeanne]
KP: Is this one of the things that would be done if people were motivated? The George example is very important.
17:46:10 [jeanne]
KF: I think the people that want to build this will, regardless of whether it is AA or AAA.
17:47:03 [jeanne]
KP: So you think it is technically difficult enough that it is not in our best interests to make it AA?
17:47:37 [jeanne]
KF: The edge cases -- especially dynamic content -- are difficult enough to justify AAA.
17:48:05 [jeanne]
KP: We should identify this as a feature that needs to be solved.
17:49:10 [kford]
1.8.12: Group agrees 1.8.12 goes to AAA.
17:49:27 [jeanne]
JS: We should send this to R&D as they maintain a list of ideas for grad students wanting work
17:50:11 [kford]
1.8.13 stays at AA.
17:50:25 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to forward a request to RDWG that they suggest that students looking for projects build an extention that allows people to put navigation marks in a page - 1.8.12
17:50:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-759 - Forward a request to RDWG that they suggest that students looking for projects build an extention that allows people to put navigation marks in a page - 1.8.12 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-09-27].
17:50:46 [kford]
1.9.1 stays at AA.
17:52:49 [kford]
Group talking about 1.9.1. Does PDF have to do this?
17:53:02 [kford]
JAN: I also don't think most peope are going to use this.
17:53:41 [kford]
Change, 1.9.1 moves to AAA.
17:54:07 [kford]
1.9.2 stays at AA.
17:58:05 [kford]
KFord: I have concerns about this. It isn't well defined. Very complex to define what relationships are really meant here.
17:59:21 [kford]
More discussion. JAN thought in page links were not covered, Jim did think they were.
17:59:31 [kford]
1.10.1 moves to AA.
18:00:13 [kford]
1.10.2 Moves to AAA.
18:01:08 [kford]
2.1.1 stays at A.
18:03:42 [jeanne]
JR: Android always has keyboard focus, windows always has it. iOS has it when Voiceover is turned on.
18:04:03 [kford]
A little discussion around how 2.1.2 works today.
18:04:20 [kford]
2.1.2 stays at level A.
18:05:12 [kford]
2.1.3 stays at A.
18:07:49 [jeanne]
action: Jeanne to research whether the behavior of radio buttons staying selected is defined in HTML.
18:07:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-760 - Research whether the behavior of radio buttons staying selected is defined in HTML. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-09-27].
18:16:49 [kford]
2.1.4 stays at A.
18:17:04 [kford]
2.1.5 stays at A.
18:17:29 [kford]
\2.1.6 stays at A.
18:17:50 [kford]
2.2.1 stays at A.
18:18:12 [kford]
2.2.2 stays at A.
18:19:53 [kford]
2.2.3 stays at A.
18:20:39 [kford]
Group talking about what term we mean here, document or source order.
18:20:58 [kford]
Action: JA to clarify wording in 2.2.3
18:20:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-761 - Clarify wording in 2.2.3 [on Jim Allan - due 2012-09-27].
18:21:32 [kford]
2.2.4 stays at AA.
18:21:46 [jallan]
action: jim to review 2.2.3 for language, do we mean tab, source, or document order?
18:21:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-762 - Review 2.2.3 for language, do we mean tab, source, or document order? [on Jim Allan - due 2012-09-27].
18:22:05 [jallan]
close action 761
18:22:13 [jallan]
close action-761
18:22:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-761 Clarify wording in 2.2.3 closed
18:24:56 [kford]
2.3.1 stays at A.
18:25:34 [Zakim]
18:25:36 [Zakim]
18:25:47 [Zakim]
18:31:43 [jeanne]
19:04:07 [Zakim]
19:04:10 [Zakim]
19:04:11 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:04:11 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, Jim_Allan