IRC log of eval on 2012-09-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:53:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eval
13:53:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-irc
13:54:19 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
13:54:26 [Zakim]
+MartijnHoutepen
13:55:33 [MartijnHoutepen]
regrets: Shadi, Kerstin, Detlev
13:56:35 [MartijnHoutepen]
trackbot, start meeting
13:56:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3825
13:56:39 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
13:56:40 [trackbot]
Date: 20 September 2012
13:56:58 [MartijnHoutepen]
regrets: Shadi, Kerstin, Detlev
13:57:16 [kathy]
kathy has joined #eval
13:58:18 [ericvelleman]
ericvelleman has joined #eval
13:58:22 [MartijnHoutepen]
agenda+ New editor draft
13:59:14 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, what's on the agenda
13:59:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'what's on the agenda', MartijnHoutepen
13:59:29 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, what is the agenda?
13:59:29 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:59:31 [Zakim]
1. Comments by WCAG WG for approval by EvalTF [from shadi]
13:59:31 [Zakim]
2. Open comments [from shadi]
13:59:31 [Zakim]
3. New graphics [from shadi]
13:59:31 [Zakim]
4. New editor draft [from MartijnHoutepen]
13:59:55 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, remove agendum 1
13:59:55 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Comments by WCAG WG for approval by EvalTF, dropped
13:59:58 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, remove agendum 2
13:59:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Open comments, dropped
14:00:00 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, remove agendum 3
14:00:02 [Zakim]
agendum 3, New graphics, dropped
14:00:32 [MartijnHoutepen]
agenda+ What happens now?
14:00:54 [MartijnHoutepen]
agenda+ Issue and action tracker
14:00:58 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, what is the agenda?
14:00:59 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:00:59 [Zakim]
4. New editor draft [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:00:59 [Zakim]
5. What happens now? [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:00:59 [Zakim]
6. Issue and action tracker [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:01:28 [ericvelleman]
I am trying to call in, but takes a bit more, just a moment
14:01:43 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:43 [Zakim]
I notice WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has restarted
14:01:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MartijnHoutepen, Kathy, [IPcaller], Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:01:53 [vivienne]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:01:53 [Zakim]
+vivienne; got it
14:02:07 [vivienne]
zakim, mute me
14:02:09 [Zakim]
vivienne should now be muted
14:02:10 [Zakim]
+Mike_
14:02:26 [MartijnHoutepen]
scribe:Katie
14:02:40 [MartijnHoutepen]
scribe: Katie
14:03:04 [agarrison]
agarrison has joined #eval
14:03:09 [ericvelleman]
Just a moment, my phone is doing strange things..
14:03:12 [MartijnHoutepen]
regrets: Shadi, Detlev, Kerstin, Moe
14:03:19 [Zakim]
+Eric
14:03:22 [agarrison]
Sorry, running a few minutes late.
14:03:34 [Mike_Elledge]
Mike_Elledge has joined #eval
14:03:44 [Sarah_Swierenga]
Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
14:04:09 [Ryladog]
Ryladog has joined #eval
14:04:15 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, mute me
14:04:15 [Zakim]
MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
14:04:25 [Zakim]
+Sarah_Swierenga
14:04:34 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, what is on the agenda?
14:04:34 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:04:35 [Zakim]
4. New editor draft [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:04:35 [Zakim]
5. What happens now? [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:04:35 [Zakim]
6. Issue and action tracker [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:04:55 [MartijnHoutepen]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120915
14:05:10 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-minutes.html Ryladog
14:05:21 [MartijnHoutepen]
diff version https://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120910&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120915
14:05:38 [Ryladog]
Agendum 1
14:06:10 [vivienne]
looks all good to me
14:06:12 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:06:22 [Mike_Elledge]
+1
14:06:49 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:07:05 [Ryladog]
EV: Do we agree on Editors Draft?
14:07:06 [MartijnHoutepen]
ack me
14:07:17 [Zakim]
-MartijnHoutepen
14:07:22 [agarrison]
zakim, ipcaller is me
14:07:22 [Zakim]
+agarrison; got it
14:08:04 [Zakim]
+MartijnHoutepen
14:08:06 [Ryladog]
EV: I did nit recieve any changes. I will be turning to it
14:08:11 [Ryladog]
Agenda 3
14:08:30 [Ryladog]
EV: Last time we turned into a working draft
14:08:49 [korn]
korn has joined #eval
14:09:03 [Ryladog]
EV: It is not too different. Shadi will edit. 20th October ends the public review
14:09:03 [vivienne]
q+
14:09:23 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:09:25 [vivienne]
ack me
14:09:27 [Ryladog]
EV: We will have time to prepare for Lyon TPAC
14:09:50 [Ryladog]
Vivianne: What is the review process for MUSTs?
14:10:03 [Ryladog]
Vivienne: What is the method?
14:10:32 [vivienne]
q+
14:10:52 [Ryladog]
EV: W3C puts in a Public Draft mode, and we can send to our friends, and it will be announced on a mailing list
14:11:01 [Zakim]
+[Oracle]
14:11:03 [MartijnHoutepen]
ack vivienne
14:11:10 [korn]
Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:11:11 [Zakim]
+Peter_Korn; got it
14:11:42 [Ryladog]
Vivienne: Distro list is a way to get it to a wider audience for the WAI R&D
14:11:57 [Ryladog]
EV: Let us ask Shadi to do that
14:12:11 [Ryladog]
R&D
14:12:24 [vivienne]
zakim, mute me
14:12:24 [Zakim]
vivienne should now be muted
14:12:35 [vivienne]
ack me
14:12:50 [Ryladog]
PK: I dont recall being on that list
14:13:09 [Ryladog]
Vivienne: Can we check with Shadi
14:13:28 [vivienne]
zakim, mute me
14:13:28 [Zakim]
vivienne should now be muted
14:13:45 [Ryladog]
Action Item Eric: Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list
14:13:45 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Item
14:14:03 [vivienne]
Sorry Katie, that should be the RDWG group
14:14:03 [Ryladog]
ACTION: Eric: Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list
14:14:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-6 - Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list [on Eric Velleman - due 2012-09-27].
14:14:15 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:14:20 [Mike_Elledge]
?
14:15:00 [Ryladog]
EV: Shadi is traveling now, he might be able to turn in into a public working draft later today
14:15:04 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
14:15:17 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:15:42 [Ryladog]
EV: While we are receiving the comments I suggest we work on the issues, not the comments at first
14:16:29 [ericvelleman]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/track/
14:16:37 [Ryladog]
EV: Please send it to as many lists as you know for this review. We have an issue tracked we opened it
14:16:48 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- mike
14:16:49 [Ryladog]
EV: We have an Issue and Action summary
14:16:51 [Mike_Elledge]
+1 Issue tracker is great!
14:17:05 [Ryladog]
EV: We will discuss the sampling and other items
14:17:33 [Ryladog]
EV: I will add them to the issuea in the tracker, I will make an agenda for the next meeting to discuss each week on the call
14:17:44 [vivienne]
sounds good Eric
14:17:48 [MartijnHoutepen]
+1
14:17:53 [kathy]
fine
14:17:54 [Mike_Elledge]
+1
14:17:54 [Sarah_Swierenga]
+1
14:17:55 [agarrison]
+1
14:17:59 [Ryladog]
EV: Then we will have at least a months to cover all of the issues on the list. Is that OK with everyone?
14:18:13 [Ryladog]
Group agrees
14:19:03 [vivienne]
sure
14:19:04 [korn]
+1
14:19:06 [vivienne]
q+
14:19:06 [MartijnHoutepen]
+1
14:19:08 [kathy]
+1
14:19:13 [Ryladog]
EV: Today we want to publish a Public Working Draft at some time later today. We will disseminate for review.
14:19:20 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:19:23 [vivienne]
ack me
14:19:48 [Ryladog]
Vivienna: Do we have an agenda for the TPAC?
14:19:58 [vivienne]
zakim, mute me
14:19:58 [Zakim]
vivienne should now be muted
14:20:04 [korn]
q+
14:20:05 [Ryladog]
EV: I am not sure, I think that is a good discussion fir this group
14:20:17 [Ryladog]
q+
14:20:27 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:20:57 [Ryladog]
Peter Kron: I will not be able to be at TPAC, it would be nice to catch some specific times can call in
14:21:15 [Ryladog]
EV: Yes, I will discuss with Shadi if we cabn have IRC
14:21:28 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- korn
14:21:31 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
14:21:34 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:21:36 [Ryladog]
ACTION: Discuss IRC with Shadi
14:21:36 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Discuss
14:22:05 [korn]
+1!!
14:22:11 [korn]
That's a great idea!
14:22:24 [korn]
q+
14:22:28 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:22:30 [MartijnHoutepen]
Katie: will we have an opportunity to perform actual evaluation at tpac?
14:22:34 [Mike_Elledge]
+1
14:22:36 [vivienne]
yes, very much. I'm working on one at the moment
14:22:39 [kathy]
good idea
14:22:40 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- Ryladog
14:22:42 [Ryladog]
Katie Haritos-Shea: I suggest running through a test drive of our methodology at the TPAC
14:22:50 [Ryladog]
Griup Agrees
14:23:06 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:23:16 [Ryladog]
EV: The other important thing is that we try it and see what we cone up with
14:23:34 [vivienne]
yes please Mike
14:23:35 [Ryladog]
Mike: I just put them into a word document, that includes the comments
14:23:38 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:23:38 [Tim]
Tim has joined #eval
14:23:44 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- mike
14:23:46 [Ryladog]
Mike: I can send around
14:23:54 [Ryladog]
EV: yes, please do
14:25:01 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: I would like to see us do a run through of our methodology. We had great success with run throughs on the TEITAC, it will be very valuable to do this
14:26:15 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: We should NOT pick some well known property, but use an anonymous named site. At TEITAC members used some of their own prodcuct to test
14:26:52 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: Industry members chose some of there own products. We chose the Solaris OS for example
14:28:04 [vivienne]
q+
14:28:15 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- korn
14:28:18 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: It help greatly to surface problems. It will be easier if someone offers their own products - not the New York Times. Best not to give the idea that the W3C tests website
14:28:45 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: Therefore it will be best that someone offer their own site
14:28:57 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
14:29:20 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn" Or, test the W3C site. It is Important to anonymise
14:29:36 [Ryladog]
q+
14:29:41 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:30:13 [kathy]
q+
14:31:03 [vivienne]
ack me
14:31:29 [Ryladog]
Vivienne: I agree, what if we approach organizations?
14:31:32 [Ryladog]
The focus is on.....testing our methodology in process (NOT the web sites)
14:31:58 [vivienne]
zakim, mute me
14:31:58 [Zakim]
vivienne should now be muted
14:32:34 [Tim]
q+
14:32:43 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:32:45 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: Just make clear that we are testing our methodolg
14:32:48 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- Ryladog
14:32:51 [kathy]
ack me
14:33:10 [Ryladog]
Kathy: Be sure that we are including Web appllications
14:33:38 [Ryladog]
Kathy: There are still holes, and someone in our group is working on one, that would be great
14:33:44 [Ryladog]
EV: Very good
14:34:08 [Ryladog]
Tim: How do we assess at the end. ?
14:34:13 [Ryladog]
q+
14:34:20 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:34:22 [korn]
q+
14:34:26 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- Tim
14:34:39 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- Ryladog
14:35:12 [korn]
We should have a list of questions written down ahead of our review.
14:35:14 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:35:15 [Ryladog]
Katie: We are trying to determine where we have problems
14:35:37 [MartijnHoutepen]
ack korn
14:35:38 [Ryladog]
Tim: We need to define what is our methodologies and what are issue
14:36:01 [Ryladog]
Peter: Maybe we should have some questions in advance
14:36:01 [kathy]
q+
14:36:29 [korn]
Key questions I think include:
14:36:29 [korn]
1. Does the methodology cover the situations arising from this website?
14:36:29 [korn]
2. Are there significant functiunality / parts we aren't reaching (statistical methodology)?
14:36:29 [korn]
3. Are there
14:36:40 [kathy]
q-
14:36:43 [Ryladog]
EV: Maybe it is a good idea to start a discussion on the list what would our trial look like. Let have this talked about on the list
14:37:02 [Ryladog]
Peter: Would you be willing to start this?
14:37:08 [vivienne]
I think the trial is a great idea
14:37:24 [Ryladog]
Peter Korn: Yes, I am starting it right now
14:37:48 [Ryladog]
EV: do all agree? Homework is what will our test/trail look like?
14:38:42 [Ryladog]
EV: We will set up an agenda
14:38:51 [Ryladog]
Any other issues?
14:39:09 [Ryladog]
Tim: When will the updated draft be published?
14:39:23 [ericvelleman]
q?
14:39:24 [Ryladog]
EV: Probably tonight when Shadi is finished with his travel
14:39:50 [Ryladog]
EV: I have to congradulate us all. Hopefully we will get many comments
14:39:54 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, unmute me
14:39:54 [Zakim]
MartijnHoutepen was not muted, MartijnHoutepen
14:39:55 [vivienne]
good night all.
14:39:58 [vivienne]
vivienne has left #eval
14:39:59 [Zakim]
-[Oracle]
14:39:59 [Zakim]
-Sarah_Swierenga
14:40:03 [MartijnHoutepen]
trackbot, end meeting
14:40:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:40:03 [Zakim]
-Kathy
14:40:03 [Sarah_Swierenga]
bye
14:40:05 [Zakim]
-agarrison
14:40:06 [korn]
korn has left #eval
14:40:07 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
14:40:08 [Mike_Elledge]
Bye!
14:40:09 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been MartijnHoutepen, Kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, vivienne, Mike_, Eric, Sarah_Swierenga, agarrison, Peter_Korn, Tim_Boland
14:40:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:40:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-minutes.html trackbot
14:40:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:40:12 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-actions.rdf :
14:40:12 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Eric: Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list [1]
14:40:12 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-irc#T14-14-03-1
14:40:12 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Discuss IRC with Shadi [2]
14:40:12 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-irc#T14-21-36
14:40:17 [Zakim]
-vivienne