IRC log of indie-ui on 2012-09-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:40 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
17:00:42 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 175
17:00:42 [Zakim]
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17:00:44 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be INDIE
17:00:44 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()1:00PM already started
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Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
17:00:45 [trackbot]
Date: 19 September 2012
17:01:01 [andy]
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17:01:09 [Zakim]
17:02:02 [Zakim]
17:02:10 [janina]
Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
17:02:11 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:02:11 [janina]
agenda+ Admin Update: Repository; Tracker; Editor's Draft; TPAC
17:02:11 [janina]
agenda+ admin: Polling for Telecon Time?
17:02:11 [janina]
agenda+ admin: WAI IndieUI WG Telecon on 10 October
17:02:13 [janina]
agenda+ Capturing Decisions from Use Cases Walkthrough
17:02:15 [janina]
agenda+ Use Cases Walk-Through; Continued Discussion?
17:02:18 [janina]
agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 19 September)
17:02:20 [janina]
agenda+ Be Done
17:02:46 [dmazzoni]
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17:02:47 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
17:02:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Apple], ??P12, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Dominic
17:02:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dmazzoni, andy, Zakim, RRSAgent, jcraig, janina, smaug_, MichaelC, hober, trackbot
17:02:57 [jcraig]
Zakim, Apple has jcraig
17:03:00 [Zakim]
+jcraig; got it
17:03:01 [janina]
zakim, ??P12 is Janina
17:03:06 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
17:03:08 [janina]
zakim, Apple has James_Craig
17:03:09 [andy]
trying to get on - I hate this sip client
17:03:14 [Zakim]
+James_Craig; got it
17:03:34 [janina]
Andy, talk with me off line about sip clients.
17:03:37 [clown]
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17:04:23 [Zakim]
17:04:34 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:34 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:04:42 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:42 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:04:43 [Zakim]
17:04:55 [jcraig]
Zakim, choose a victim.
17:04:55 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dominic
17:05:08 [janina]
zakim, ??P58 is Andy_Heath
17:05:08 [Zakim]
+Andy_Heath; got it
17:05:24 [Zakim]
17:05:25 [janina]
zakim, mute andy
17:05:25 [Zakim]
Andy_Heath should now be muted
17:05:45 [clown]
zakim, who is noisy?
17:05:56 [Zakim]
clown, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina (43%), [Apple] (4%), Katie_Haritos-Shea (40%), Joseph_Scheuhammer (53%), Dominic (46%)
17:06:03 [dmazzoni]
scribe: dmazzoni
17:07:20 [MichaelC]
17:08:37 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:08:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin Update: Repository; Tracker; Editor's Draft; TPAC" taken up [from janina]
17:09:15 [dmazzoni]
JES: top item - Michael, any news on the repository and tracker, any bugs?
17:09:25 [dmazzoni]
MC: everything's working
17:09:38 [dmazzoni]
JES: James, any update on the drafts?
17:11:00 [dmazzoni]
JC: Checked in. Not at a point where I need feedback, but always welcome of course.
17:11:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate clown
17:11:56 [dmazzoni]
MC: I'm not seeing them in Mercurial? Nevermind, looks like my problem
17:12:26 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:12:26 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "admin: Polling for Telecon Time?" taken up [from janina]
17:12:29 [dmazzoni]
JS: any questions, comments, anyone? Next topic
17:13:14 [jcraig]
FYI, this Mercurial tutorial by Joel Spolsky is especially useful
17:13:15 [dmazzoni]
JS: We planned to canvas task force participants to see if there's a better time for this meeting to accomodate Asia and Australia at least sometimes
17:13:25 [MichaelC]
-> Meeting time poll
17:13:46 [dmazzoni]
JS: I think we can announce it in email, but Michael can also post it to IRC
17:13:55 [dmazzoni]
JS: Any questions on this poll?
17:14:44 [dmazzoni]
JS: There are two W3C working groups that constitute this task force. The other one is Web Events. From the web accessibility side, we formed a new working group there.
17:16:50 [andy]
zakim, unmute andy
17:16:50 [Zakim]
Andy_Heath should no longer be muted
17:16:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate clown
17:18:16 [dmazzoni]
JS: The Indie UI task force is made up of members of the WAI Indie UI working group and Web Events.
17:18:32 [dmazzoni]
JC: So some people who participate on these calls are not members of the WAI Indie UI working group?
17:18:42 [dmazzoni]
JS: Correct, they might be members of Web Events
17:19:26 [dmazzoni]
MC: The intellectual property belongs to the Indie UI working group. Web Events considers that overlaps its charter.
17:20:42 [dmazzoni]
JS: An organizational telecon for members of the WAI Indie UI working group (which isn't everyone) will meet on Oct 10. This shouldn't happen very often. However, if there are disagreements it's possible for that group to caucus on its own. When there's consensus there shouldn't be much need for that.
17:20:57 [dmazzoni]
MC: What about meeting time at TPAC?
17:21:08 [dmazzoni]
JS: Not planning on it, but planning for the task force to meet.
17:21:23 [MichaelC]
s/MC: What/JC: What/
17:23:10 [Zakim]
17:23:13 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:23:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "admin: WAI IndieUI WG Telecon on 10 October" taken up [from janina]
17:23:30 [MichaelC]
zakim, close this item
17:23:30 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
17:23:31 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:23:31 [Zakim]
4. Capturing Decisions from Use Cases Walkthrough [from janina]
17:23:33 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
17:23:33 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Capturing Decisions from Use Cases Walkthrough" taken up [from janina]
17:24:51 [dmazzoni]
JS: So, how to we want to capture this list of features / items that we want to develop specifications for, other than going through the minutes? Brainstorm?
17:25:08 [dmazzoni]
JS: Michael and I developed 4 specific ideas that might be a good starting point.
17:25:18 [dmazzoni]
MC: Just a second...
17:26:42 [Zakim]
17:26:44 [dmazzoni]
MC: 1. wiki scratchpad, 2. copy spec into the wiki, allow editing, 3. allow members to edit branches in Hg, 4. find a tool that tracks resolutions
17:26:46 [MichaelC]
perhaps a wiki scratchpad of features
17:26:48 [MichaelC]
or copy of spec in wiki to edit as proposals
17:26:50 [MichaelC]
or have members edit Mercurial branches to make proposals
17:26:52 [MichaelC]
or track resolutions
17:28:10 [dmazzoni]
MC: to clarify 4, track "RESOLUTION" in IRC meeting logs to track what we decided
17:29:04 [Zakim]
17:29:05 [dmazzoni]
AH: is the only difference the output?
17:29:27 [dmazzoni]
MC: clarifies some differences about the processes
17:29:52 [dmazzoni]
JC: my preference would be to track resolutions and issues and actions
17:29:58 [Zakim]
17:30:26 [dmazzoni]
JC: If things are not controversial, the editor can just add them, otherwise we can discuss
17:30:32 [andy]
`zakim, q+ andy
17:30:39 [MichaelC]
q+ andy
17:30:40 [dmazzoni]
JC: I also like the Mercurial idea
17:30:41 [MichaelC]
17:30:51 [MichaelC]
ack a
17:31:06 [janina]
17:31:10 [janina]
17:31:17 [MichaelC]
17:31:21 [dmazzoni]
AH: expresses agreement
17:31:22 [jcraig]
s/the Mercurial idea/the Mercurial idea for later, after the edits have settled a bit
17:31:57 [andy]
zakiim, q+ andy
17:32:05 [dmazzoni]
MC: the wiki can still be a place to make proposals, then the editor can copy to trunk
17:32:16 [andy]
zakim, q+ andy
17:32:16 [Zakim]
I see MichaelC, andy on the speaker queue
17:32:25 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:32:53 [andy]
just q_ then ?
17:32:55 [andy]
17:33:25 [MichaelC]
ack a
17:33:57 [jcraig]
q+ to discuss using wiki pages for individual issues, rather than whole spec edits
17:34:02 [jcraig]
ack me
17:34:02 [Zakim]
jcraig, you wanted to discuss using wiki pages for individual issues, rather than whole spec edits
17:34:57 [dmazzoni]
JC: I propose we keep wiki pages to one page per issue / change proposal, as opposed to having one giant wiki page - too hard to track otherwise
17:35:11 [dmazzoni]
JS: sounds reasonable
17:35:44 [dmazzoni]
JS: are we confident that everything is captured in either the spec or a tracker?
17:35:59 [clown]
17:37:15 [dmazzoni]
JC: just actions in the tracker so far, what about ideas for ideas from one from Andy, one from Joseph
17:37:30 [dmazzoni]
JS: we need to track everything, stop relying on our memories
17:37:31 [jcraig]
ACTION: jcraig to incorporate Andy Heath's proposal into User Context spec
17:37:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-11 - Incorporate Andy Heath's proposal into User Context spec [on James Craig - due 2012-09-26].
17:38:04 [dmazzoni]
AH: credit Rich with that proposal as well
17:38:35 [jcraig]
ACTION: jcraig to incorporate group change proposal (sent in and formatted by Joseph)
17:38:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-12 - Incorporate group change proposal (sent in and formatted by Joseph) [on James Craig - due 2012-09-26].
17:40:27 [dmazzoni]
JC: Should we use a public tracker? This tracker requires a W3C account
17:40:50 [dmazzoni]
JC: Should be sufficient if the public can view, not edit
17:40:57 [dmazzoni]
JS: And we have email to capture comments from anyone
17:41:36 [MichaelC]
the IndieUI tracker is in public space and doesn't require account to view
17:41:45 [MichaelC]
does require to edit (since you have to be member of group)
17:42:22 [MichaelC]
topic: ISO Liaison
17:42:48 [clown]
"Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure"
17:43:07 [clown]
17:43:13 [dmazzoni]
AH: I've been asked to liase between GPII and this group
17:43:58 [dmazzoni]
AH: Building a registry that anyone can use. The preferences that Rich and I proposed are going into that registry.
17:45:44 [dmazzoni]
AH: ISO SC36 (?) is standardizing the registry. There may be terms coming out of this group that could go into this registry
17:46:49 [dmazzoni]
AH: ISO SC35 (user interfaces) also includes accessibility; the world wants one standard so I hope we can harmonize
17:47:02 [dmazzoni]
17:47:29 [dmazzoni]
AH: ISO SC36 is for learning and education, historically - but not education-specific
17:48:07 [dmazzoni]
Joseph: what exactly goes in the registry?
17:50:01 [dmazzoni]
AH: an example term that might go in the registry is "visual"
17:51:29 [dmazzoni]
AH: doesn't distinguish between needs and preferences. I'll point everyone to the wiki
17:52:39 [dmazzoni]
JS: What is a liaison? Should we nominate one to SC36?
17:53:07 [jcraig]
Andy/Rich proposal (DOCX) archived here:
17:54:10 [dmazzoni]
JS: (restating AH): so, raise flag when they notice an inconsistency between proposals in the two groups
17:55:59 [MichaelC]
topic: Access4All 3
17:56:14 [dmazzoni]
AH: one last announcement: access4all 3 is out
17:56:52 [clown]
17:56:54 [clown]
17:57:29 [dmazzoni]
JS: thanks. we didn't get to use cases, but we will next time.
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17:58:48 [Zakim]
17:59:01 [dmazzoni]
Zakim: bye
17:59:13 [clown]
zakim, bye
17:59:13 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Katie_Haritos-Shea, Dominic, jcraig, Janina, James_Craig, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Andy_Heath, Cooper
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17:59:24 [dmazzoni]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:59:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dmazzoni
18:00:03 [dmazzoni]
RRSAgent, make log public
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