IRC log of tagmem on 2012-09-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:06 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
16:53:06 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-tagmem-irc
16:53:18 [plinss]
zakim, this will be tag
16:53:18 [Zakim]
ok, plinss; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
16:54:59 [jar]
jar has joined #tagmem
16:55:08 [plinss]
Chair: Noah Mendelsohn
16:55:15 [plinss]
Scribe: Peter Linss
16:55:21 [plinss]
Scribenick: plinss
16:59:24 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
16:59:31 [Zakim]
+plinss
17:00:20 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #tagmem
17:01:08 [Zakim]
+Masinter
17:01:26 [Larry`]
Larry` has joined #tagmem
17:01:32 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Rees
17:01:44 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
17:02:02 [Zakim]
+??P13
17:02:37 [Zakim]
+??P14
17:04:37 [Zakim]
+Yves
17:05:46 [nmendels]
nmendels has joined #tagmem
17:06:50 [Ashok]
zakim, who is here?
17:06:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see plinss, Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, ht, nmendels, Yves
17:06:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see nmendels, masinter, Ashok, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl_, timbl, plinss, trackbot, Yves
17:07:40 [plinss]
nm: Jonathan you expect not to be at the f2f?
17:07:45 [plinss]
jar: that's correct
17:07:54 [plinss]
nm: there will be a call next week
17:08:05 [plinss]
nm: approval of prior minutes
17:08:07 [masinter]
I can scribe next week most likely
17:08:20 [plinss]
nm: any objections to approving aug 2nd?
17:08:31 [plinss]
RESOLVED: approved minutes of aug 2
17:08:38 [nmendels]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/30-minutes
17:08:42 [plinss]
nm: minutes of aug 30?
17:08:55 [plinss]
RESOLVED: minutes of aug 30 approved
17:10:12 [plinss]
nm: robin berjorn will be leaving the tag
17:10:24 [Yves]
s/berjorn/berjon/
17:11:01 [plinss]
nm: everyone involved with robin's work please review actions and propose a way forward
17:11:24 [plinss]
nm: larry prepared a fpwd of p&l
17:11:44 [plinss]
yl: it will be ready tomorrow and published next tuesday
17:12:11 [Yves]
s/p&l/publishing and linking/
17:12:46 [nmendels]
ACTION-733?
17:12:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-733 -- Larry Masinter to prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F -- due 2012-09-28 -- OPEN
17:12:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/733
17:12:59 [nmendels]
ACTION-732?
17:12:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-732 -- Larry Masinter to prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking -- due 2012-09-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:12:59 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/732
17:13:14 [plinss]
nm: can we close this action?
17:13:19 [nmendels]
close ACTION-732
17:13:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-732 prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking closed
17:13:20 [plinss]
lm: yes
17:14:10 [plinss]
nm: I assume we want one or more sessions at the f2f on this
17:14:30 [plinss]
nm: we want comments before then
17:15:10 [plinss]
lm: might be more appropriate for tpac agenda, we can be more visible there
17:15:23 [plinss]
lm: who else will be at tpac
17:15:31 [plinss]
am: I will me there
17:15:37 [plinss]
ht: probable
17:15:41 [plinss]
yl: no
17:15:46 [plinss]
pl: I will be there
17:18:15 [plinss]
nm: yves can you please update publishing and linking to reflect that we want comments by early october
17:21:14 [plinss]
nm: my availability continues to get worse, if there are problems please raise them
17:21:33 [plinss]
nm: action 733 listed in the agenda was supposed to be 732
17:21:53 [masinter]
action-726?
17:21:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:21:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
17:21:56 [plinss]
TOPIC: action 726
17:21:59 [nmendels]
AACTION-726?
17:22:10 [nmendels]
ACTION-726?
17:22:10 [trackbot]
ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:22:10 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
17:22:32 [nmendels]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Sep/0007.html
17:22:41 [nmendels]
q?
17:23:04 [jar]
Mark N's email re CORS: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Sep/0011.html
17:24:22 [plinss]
jar: we were watching this argument between tyler close who was bringing up issues with the approach taken in cors and how the issues were going to be addressed
17:24:55 [plinss]
jar: the editor drafted text to put into the security considerations sections, it's there, no response from tyler yet
17:25:15 [plinss]
jar: tim's concerned, larry's concerned and I'm concerned about this
17:25:31 [plinss]
jar: it's questionable if this has received adequate review
17:25:42 [masinter]
if i'm concerned, i don't remember why, i've been more concerned about "web+" and registerProtocolHandler
17:25:48 [masinter]
at least lately
17:26:09 [plinss]
jar: I asked thomas about this and he thinks it has adequate review
17:27:30 [plinss]
jar: mark nottingham said cors had a particular use case, not general, but deployed, let's just move forward with it, does not vulnerability a concern
17:28:15 [plinss]
nm: is the proposal that there seems to be community consensus about this and the tag should not do anything more on it?
17:28:30 [plinss]
jar: I supose
17:29:52 [masinter]
I wouldn't go with "community consensus"
17:30:16 [masinter]
I think there is "adequate review in the community for this not to require TAG mixing in"
17:31:25 [plinss]
nm: note to include this in tag status reports
17:31:28 [nmendels]
close ACTION-726
17:31:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-726 Make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. closed
17:31:47 [Zakim]
+TimBL
17:32:04 [plinss]
jar: if anyone wants to review security, the third item was interesting and is good to review
17:32:39 [masinter]
reopen action-726
17:32:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-726 Make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. re-opened
17:32:42 [nmendels]
nmendels has joined #tagmem
17:32:55 [jar]
close action-695
17:32:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-695 Check with Thomas Roessler on whether security review of CORS is coming up in W3C/IETF liaison closed
17:33:31 [plinss]
TOPIC: action 726
17:33:33 [nmendels]
ACTION-726?
17:33:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN
17:33:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
17:33:58 [nmendels]
Context was TAG effectiveness discussionat June F2F
17:34:06 [nmendels]
s/nat/n at/
17:34:58 [nmendels]
zakim, who is talking?
17:35:09 [Zakim]
nmendels, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jonathan_Rees (70%), ht (68%)
17:35:55 [ht]
q+ to say 'yes'
17:35:56 [plinss]
jar: does anyone like what I did?
17:36:57 [nmendels]
Ah...so "deconvolving particulars...." meant "separately stating the goals", then I think that indeed is very useful. Somehow I missed that in a quick skim.
17:37:00 [plinss]
jar: you could look at the scope of the tag and if what we're doing is descriptive, how do you set a scope on that?
17:37:14 [plinss]
jar: that's completely open ended, if we had a a set of objectives we'd know where to stop
17:37:18 [ht]
ack ht
17:37:20 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to say 'yes'
17:37:43 [plinss]
ht: I found this helpful
17:38:48 [plinss]
nm: how do we take this forward?
17:38:55 [plinss]
zakim, mute ht
17:38:55 [Zakim]
ht should now be muted
17:39:20 [plinss]
jar: the point of this is dealing with change
17:41:04 [plinss]
jar: I had an idea about how the objectives should be formulated
17:41:49 [plinss]
jar: if people like this matrix, we can refine the matrix, or expand it
17:42:08 [jar]
matrix is here: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/09/action-726
17:42:21 [ht]
q+ to comment
17:42:26 [nmendels]
ack next
17:42:26 [ht]
ack ht
17:42:27 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to comment
17:42:56 [plinss]
ht: I think it's right to think of this as for us, but also as public
17:43:33 [ht]
ht: By making it public, we help people see what it is we think we are doing
17:43:55 [masinter]
present this at TPAC?
17:44:03 [plinss]
jar: I can do more work on this but didn't want to unless I got some encouragement
17:45:01 [masinter]
q+ to suggest considering working on turning this into a TPAC presentation
17:45:22 [jar]
q?
17:45:35 [nmendels]
ack next
17:45:36 [Zakim]
masinter, you wanted to suggest considering working on turning this into a TPAC presentation
17:45:45 [plinss]
nm: do we need to do more to make this more visible?
17:45:58 [plinss]
lm: should we present this at tpac?
17:46:30 [plinss]
nm: people could read this as a work plan to the tag and that's not what it means
17:47:00 [plinss]
s/to/for/
17:47:10 [masinter]
could we turn this into a preface/introduction to AWWW?
17:47:19 [masinter]
i'm just brainstorming possible deliverables
17:47:22 [nmendels]
I'll get to that next Larry
17:47:36 [nmendels]
I likely wont be at TPAC either
17:47:39 [plinss]
nm: should we aim for tpac with this?
17:47:48 [plinss]
jar: I won't be there
17:48:12 [plinss]
jar: what we need next is testing, test the findings against the chart
17:48:32 [ht]
q+ to argue against REC
17:48:37 [nmendels]
q?
17:48:39 [nmendels]
ack next
17:48:40 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to argue against REC
17:48:48 [plinss]
nm: what if we tried for a rec called "goals of the www"
17:49:15 [plinss]
ht: I think this should be lightweight, not a rec, this is a tool
17:49:21 [nmendels]
What if we then make it sort of like our Product Page. I.e. part of the TAG's Web presence.
17:49:30 [nmendels]
We take responsibility for that, but can update it on no notic
17:50:07 [jar]
q?
17:50:08 [ht]
Yes, analogy to Product Page
17:50:19 [ht]
It's a product page for the whole TAG
17:50:25 [masinter]
I'm looking for more means where we communicate with others outside the TAG and let others give us feedback
17:50:56 [nmendels]
So, the product page stuff is like that
17:51:08 [nmendels]
Concrete proposal:
17:51:14 [nmendels]
1) Clean it up for ublic consumption
17:51:24 [nmendels]
2) Publish like our Product Pages as oua living document
17:51:33 [nmendels]
3) Talk at TPAC etc
17:51:41 [nmendels]
s/ublic/public/
17:51:50 [Yves]
s/oua/our/
17:51:52 [nmendels]
s/oua/a/
17:52:16 [plinss]
jar: that's fine, but it's an opportunity, not why I did this
17:52:35 [plinss]
jar: I don't think we should be dogmatic
17:52:53 [plinss]
jar: this was to make us more effective
17:53:29 [plinss]
nm: how can we move this forward?
17:53:47 [plinss]
jar: I'm willing to spend more time on it before the f2f
17:54:31 [plinss]
nm: I propose we take the discussion to email, you can tune the document based on the feedback
17:55:10 [nmendels]
ACTION: Noah to schedule another discussion of World Wide Web Objectives Matrix per ACTION-726
17:55:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-738 - Schedule another discussion of World Wide Web Objectives Matrix per ACTION-726 [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-09-20].
17:55:27 [nmendels]
ACTION-726?
17:55:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN
17:55:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
17:55:54 [plinss]
TOPIC: f2f agenda
17:56:08 [plinss]
nm: I asked everyone to handle this via email to me
17:56:31 [Ashok]
q+
17:56:45 [nmendels]
ack next
17:57:02 [nmendels]
E-mail on offline apps -- want at FF 30 mins
17:57:06 [plinss]
am: I sent some email about offline apps, I'd like 30 mins for that
17:57:23 [masinter]
At F2F could spend time preparing for TPAC presentations / discussions? Timely
17:57:54 [plinss]
am: I've been working on p&l with larry, and starting thinking about offline apps
17:58:41 [plinss]
nm: maybe we need time for a major discussion on the scope of offline apps
17:58:56 [masinter]
Now that P&L is out, I might want time to talk about governanceFramework if I can get time to update it
17:59:03 [plinss]
am: we need time to figure out the scope and if what I speak about in the email is something the tag should be involved in
18:00:02 [nmendels]
Jeni wrote in email: on two documents: an update to the Fragid document taking into account the comments that we've received on it, which we can then review for publication at the F2F; and a 'primer' on the httpRange-14 resolution which we can similarly review (I can hope for publication but am doubtful that we'll get agreement on it).
18:00:17 [masinter]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/governanceFramework-2012-07-19.html
18:00:19 [plinss]
lm: I have a couple of things I may need time for: the governance framework, I don't have the document ready now
18:00:30 [Ashok]
q+
18:00:31 [masinter]
I'm working on a major rewrite
18:00:51 [masinter]
the scope is still the same... kind of generall "how W3C and policy issues interact"
18:01:07 [nmendels]
I'm thinking this is generally uner the umbrella of P&L?
18:01:36 [plinss]
nm: I think of governance as a sub topic under p&l, is that now a separate issue?
18:01:38 [nmendels]
Schdule governance separately from P&L?
18:01:40 [nmendels]
LM: Yes
18:01:43 [plinss]
lm: it's more of a spin off, yes
18:02:16 [masinter]
I'm working on a major rewrite
18:02:26 [plinss]
am: I think we're going to publish it on it's own, it has a different slant
18:02:36 [Zakim]
-TimBL
18:02:43 [masinter]
a short session would be ok
18:02:54 [masinter]
like 30-60 minutes
18:03:03 [ht_home]
ht_home has joined #tagmem
18:03:04 [plinss]
am: but I'd like to see them tied together
18:03:07 [masinter]
yes and after P&L is fine
18:03:54 [plinss]
lm: the other things are more speculative, probably won't be ready in time
18:03:56 [ht_home]
I've lost audio
18:04:02 [masinter]
if there's time and I make progress on 'evolution'
18:04:19 [Zakim]
-ht
18:04:21 [masinter]
http://www.w3.org/wiki/Evolution
18:04:46 [Zakim]
+??P0
18:05:19 [masinter]
do we want time on registerProtocolHandler and the web+xxx URI scheme pattern?
18:05:35 [plinss]
jar: I wanted to mention: henri and jeni and I did a lot of work though june, we should report on that
18:06:04 [plinss]
jar: one is the work on the general approach
18:06:31 [masinter]
s/henri/henry/
18:07:00 [plinss]
nm: can you make a proposal in the next 2-3 weeks how to spend time on this
18:07:30 [jar]
ht: We have to decide at f2f how to discharge the social debt incurred by the consultation exercise
18:07:41 [plinss]
ht: half a day
18:09:02 [plinss]
jar: I drafted a report on awwsw, the task group, I'd like time to discuss at the f2f
18:09:09 [ht_home]
AWWSW ==, informally, Architecture of the World Wide Semantic Web
18:09:55 [Zakim]
+TimBL
18:10:29 [plinss]
jar: 30 minutes to review the report
18:11:18 [timbl]
timbl has joined #tagmem
18:11:27 [plinss]
jar: this depends on getting another signer from awwsw
18:12:04 [jar]
the task group's objective would be to get accept/reject from the TAG on a final report for the group
18:12:17 [plinss]
nm: who's seats are up in the next election?
18:12:19 [plinss]
am: mine
18:12:21 [plinss]
pl: min
18:12:27 [plinss]
s/min/mine
18:12:40 [plinss]
lm: mine
18:12:47 [jar]
as chair I'm hopeful that the group will be ready by the time of the TAG F2F to ask for such a decision… that's the reason to schedule f2f time
18:14:11 [jar]
s/the group/the AWWSW group/
18:14:22 [jar]
s/to ask/to ask the TAG/
18:16:57 [nmendels]
ACTION-735?
18:16:57 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
18:16:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-735 -- Yves Lafon to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-09-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:16:57 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/735
18:17:00 [plinss]
TOPIC: action item reviews
18:17:09 [nmendels]
ACTION-735?
18:17:09 [trackbot]
ACTION-735 -- Yves Lafon to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-09-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:17:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/735
18:18:09 [nmendels]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2012Sep/0000.html
18:20:15 [Zakim]
-nmendels
18:20:35 [plinss]
tbl: maybe a subset of the tag should meet with the ab at tpac
18:20:44 [nmendels]
Please remind Tim I will not be at TPAC
18:20:56 [Zakim]
+??P2
18:22:14 [plinss]
tbl: it could just be a lunch
18:22:49 [nmendels]
close ACTION-735
18:22:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-735 Check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness closed
18:23:36 [nmendels]
ACTION-737?
18:23:36 [trackbot]
ACTION-737 -- Yves Lafon to on Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking -- due 2012-09-06 -- OPEN
18:23:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/737
18:24:16 [nmendels]
ACTION-718?
18:24:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-718 -- Ashok Malhotra to propose goals and success critera for TAG work on architectural issues relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. -- due 2012-09-11 -- OPEN
18:24:16 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/718
18:24:32 [nmendels]
zakim, who is here?
18:24:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see plinss, Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, Yves, ht_home (muted), TimBL, ??P2
18:24:34 [Zakim]
On IRC I see timbl, ht_home, nmendels, masinter, Ashok, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, plinss, trackbot, Yves
18:25:09 [plinss]
jar: this is an example of what I think the matrix could be used for
18:26:11 [jar]
s/this/action 718 (storage)/
18:26:37 [nmendels]
ACTION-714?
18:26:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-714 -- Noah Mendelsohn to communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG -- due 2012-09-11 -- OPEN
18:26:37 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/714
18:26:52 [masinter]
PING
18:26:57 [nmendels]
PONG
18:27:01 [masinter]
there is a Privacy INterest group
18:27:08 [plinss]
nm: maybe yves could pick up action 714?
18:27:13 [plinss]
yl: sure
18:27:31 [plinss]
nm: if you could draft something and send to the tag for review
18:27:44 [nmendels]
ACTION-714?
18:27:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-714 -- Yves Lafon to communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG -- due 2012-09-11 -- OPEN
18:27:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/714
18:27:45 [masinter]
http://www.w3.org/Privacy/
18:27:55 [plinss]
yl: I might start first by talking to people in w3c working on privacy
18:29:22 [plinss]
jar: the "some patterns…" is the thing dan started and robin worked on
18:29:28 [nmendels]
ACTION-692?
18:29:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-692 -- Noah Mendelsohn to consider JAR's april request to discuss, for 10 mins, issues list at oct f2f -- due 2012-09-10 -- OPEN
18:29:28 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/692
18:30:24 [plinss]
nm: meeting adjourned, there will be a call next week
18:30:26 [nmendels]
We are ADJOURNED
18:30:33 [Zakim]
-Masinter
18:30:35 [Zakim]
-Yves
18:30:36 [Zakim]
-??P2
18:30:40 [Zakim]
-plinss
18:30:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-tagmem-minutes.html Yves
18:31:03 [Zakim]
-Jonathan_Rees
20:48:51 [Yves]
http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/09/crime-hijacks-https-sessions/