12:27:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
12:27:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/12-er-irc
12:27:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:27:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
12:27:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3794
12:27:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
12:27:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference
12:27:12 <trackbot> Date: 12 September 2012
12:30:00 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
12:30:00 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
12:30:01 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started
12:30:02 <Zakim> +Shadi
12:30:24 <shadi> chair: shadi
12:30:26 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2012Sep/0000.html
12:30:38 <shadi> agenda+ EARL 1.0 Test Suite
12:30:52 <shadi> agenda+ Website Accessibility Conformance Evaluation Methodology
12:31:11 <Zakim> +Yehya
12:31:20 <shadi> agenda+ Techniques For Accessibility Evaluation And Repair Tools
12:31:35 <philipA> philipA has joined #er
12:31:38 <carlos> carlos has joined #er
12:32:26 <cstrobbe> cstrobbe has joined #er
12:33:00 <Zakim> +??P4
12:33:28 <Zakim> + +49.711.892.3.aaaa
12:33:42 <kostas> kostas has joined #er
12:33:53 <shadi> seems like it
12:33:53 <cstrobbe> zakim, who's making noise?
12:33:56 <Zakim> -??P4
12:34:06 <Zakim> cstrobbe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Yehya (27%), Shadi (14%)
12:34:08 <Zakim> +??P4
12:34:33 <shadi> zakim, mute p4
12:34:33 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I do not know which phone connection belongs to p4
12:34:34 <cstrobbe> zakim, +49.711 is cstrobbe
12:34:35 <Zakim> +cstrobbe; got it
12:34:36 <shadi> zakim, mute ??p4
12:34:36 <Zakim> ??P4 should now be muted
12:35:33 <shadi> zakim, ??p4 is philipA 
12:35:33 <Zakim> +philipA; got it
12:36:43 <Zakim> + +30231125aabb
12:37:17 <shadi> zakim, aabb is kostas 
12:37:17 <Zakim> +kostas; got it
12:38:54 <shadi> scribe: philipA 
12:39:03 <shadi> agenda?
12:39:25 <shadi> zakim, take up next
12:39:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "EARL 1.0 Test Suite" taken up [from shadi]
12:39:34 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/tests/
12:39:55 <philipA> Shadi: We need to have test suites in order to enter candidate recommendation state
12:40:11 <philipA> Shadi: Without that we cannot finish EARL
12:40:15 <samuelm> samuelm has joined #er
12:41:05 <philipA> Shadi: question for tool developers: does your tool already generate EARL reports?
12:41:33 <philipA> Kostas: we generate EARL reports already
12:42:30 <philipA> Kostas: regarding the test suite: what is actually the test suite? Do we need to create new tests or just put there sample reports of the tools?
12:42:37 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/tests/test0001.rdf
12:43:13 <philipA> Shadi: Ideally every report would have the input (web page) along with it
12:43:32 <philipA> Shadi: So we need sample input AND sample output
12:43:53 <philipA> Shadi: If tool developers could provide such we could have a look at them in the group
12:44:42 <philipA> Shadi: Input and output only contain anonymized information
12:44:46 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/#
12:46:01 <cstrobbe> AccessODF also generates EARL, but you need to extract it from the ODF files.
12:46:09 <philipA> Shadi: We want a good set of tests, various aspects of EARL, not repeat features
12:47:27 <philipA> Shadi: So that tool developers can test their tool if they generate good EARL reports
12:48:05 <philipA> Kostas: we could generate such reports
12:48:41 <philipA> Shadi: Please generate two examples and then we can discuss
12:49:39 <philipA> CarlosV: We are very busy the next weeks, after that we will concentrate on EARL reporting
12:50:53 <philipA> CarlosV: Our tool has an export mechanism of the object model to EARL, but it is not up to date
12:52:29 <philipA> Shadi: Christophe, can you send us an example ODF file that contains an EARL report?
12:52:44 <philipA> Christophe: will do
12:54:26 <Zakim> +??P9
12:54:27 <philipA> Kostas: Can the EARL reports contain custom RDF classes?
12:55:05 <philipA> Shadi: It depends on the type of the additional information, maybe subclassing would be ok
12:55:14 <shadi> zakim, ??p9 is samuelm 
12:55:14 <Zakim> +samuelm; got it
12:55:19 <philipA> Shadi: But we need to see the individual reports
12:55:20 <kostas> there is a noise
12:55:33 <shadi> zakim, mute me
12:55:33 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
12:55:39 <shadi> ack me
12:55:45 <shadi> zakim, mute samuelm 
12:55:45 <Zakim> samuelm should now be muted
12:55:48 <samuelm> zakim, mute me
12:55:48 <Zakim> samuelm was already muted, samuelm
12:56:33 <samuelm> zakim, unmute me
12:56:33 <Zakim> samuelm should no longer be muted
12:57:04 <samuelm> zakim, mute me
12:57:04 <Zakim> samuelm should now be muted
12:57:28 <philipA> Shadi: Samuel and Christophe and me would be reviewers
12:57:59 <philipA> Shadi: CarlosV, Kostas and Philip would generate the EARL reports
12:57:59 <shadi> zakim, take up next
12:57:59 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Website Accessibility Conformance Evaluation Methodology" taken up [from shadi]
12:58:12 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120910
12:58:39 <philipA> Shadi: first public draft was in March
12:58:47 <philipA> Shadi: processed all public comments
12:59:03 <philipA> Shadi: it's a complete document now
12:59:47 <philipA> Shadi: we would like to publish working draft
13:00:18 <philipA> Shadi: Two options for ERT-WG
13:01:00 <Zakim> -cstrobbe
13:01:29 <philipA> Shadi: 1.) review in more detail before publishing
13:01:47 <philipA> Shadi: 2.) publish as working draft and ERT-WG will review that
13:02:14 <kostas> i prefer the second choice
13:02:16 <philipA> CarlosV: Would like to review before publishing but problem is the time
13:02:37 <philipA> Shadi: any particular concerns?
13:03:01 <philipA> CarlosV: I only read an early draft of it, which was to concise, but I assume that is not longer the case
13:03:31 <samuelm> zakim, unmute me
13:03:31 <Zakim> samuelm should no longer be muted
13:03:53 <philipA> Samuel: I would prefer the second choice as well
13:04:07 <samuelm> zakim, mute me
13:04:07 <Zakim> samuelm should now be muted
13:05:00 <kostas> it is better to become publishable asap for comments/reviews from all interested people
13:05:23 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120910#step5c
13:05:57 <philipA> Shadi: we don't know if this section will stay inside the document
13:06:44 <philipA> Shadi: this would be for review of ERT-WG
13:06:57 <philipA> Kostas: would like to have more examples in the document
13:08:00 <philipA> Shadi: it is on our todo list
13:09:30 <shadi> 29-30 October, Lyon, France
13:09:58 <shadi> Eval TF face-to-face meeting
13:10:28 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-tf#f2f
13:10:56 <philipA> Shadi: would like to have comments before this F2F meeting
13:11:18 <philipA> Shadi: ERT-WG members are invited as well
13:11:44 <philipA> RESOLUTION: Approval for publication as an updated working draft
13:12:07 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:12:07 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Techniques For Accessibility Evaluation And Repair Tools" taken up [from shadi]
13:12:27 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-AERT-20000426
13:12:50 <philipA> Shadi: one of the first deliverables of this group
13:13:01 <philipA> Shadi: idea was to develop ideas for evaluation tools
13:13:24 <philipA> Shadi: a lot of this work has been integrated into techniques document of WCAG 2.0
13:13:29 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/
13:14:16 <philipA> Shadi: basic objective is to inform tool developers how to check the accessibility of web content
13:14:46 <philipA> Shadi: today there are many tools available but they implement WCAG in different ways and come to different results
13:15:06 <philipA> Shadi: should be kind of cookbook
13:15:13 <philipA> Shadi: evaluation in general
13:15:30 <philipA> Shadi: how to implement checks, how they relate to success criteria and so on
13:16:20 <philipA> Kostas: our tool is based on this document
13:16:37 <philipA> Shadi: would you say that it would be of more help if this document would be more up to date
13:16:50 <shadi> AERT
13:17:08 <philipA> Shadi: I'm referring to WCAG 2.0
13:17:14 <philipA> Kostas: I'm referring to WCAG 2.0
13:18:00 <shadi> [[Status of This Document]]
13:18:52 <philipA> CarlosV: isn't the document is totally obsolete?
13:19:11 <philipA> Shadi: I think the techniques of WCAG may not be enough for tool developers
13:19:42 <philipA> Shadi: You need combine different techniques, ....., WCAG 2.0 has a layer of logic on top of the techniques
13:20:11 <philipA> Shadi: That is not all explained in the techniques document
13:20:38 <philipA> Shadi: Title and content of the document may change but the general objective will stay the same
13:21:23 <philipA> CarlosV: I think the documents form UWEM are more usable
13:21:41 <philipA> CarlosV: we follow this approach when developing our tools
13:22:22 <philipA> Shadi: I think UWEM was addressing many different target user groups at the same time
13:22:36 <philipA> Shadi: which is just a design question
13:22:47 <philipA> Shadi: we try to break that down into more modules
13:23:27 <philipA> Shadi: new document should address evaluation tool developers
13:23:53 <philipA> Shadi: there will be overlap with UWEM, but hopefully it will be more standardized
13:24:46 <philipA> Shadi: we would like to bring that document up to date
13:25:37 <philipA> Shadi: next step would be to define the requirements of such a document
13:27:13 <shadi> Topic: Next Meeting
13:27:49 <kostas> next week i wiil be in madrid
13:28:00 <kostas> i will prefer next two weeks
13:28:57 <shadi> 19 September - tentative, probably not
13:29:05 <shadi> 26 September - confirmed
13:29:09 <Zakim> -Yehya
13:29:15 <samuelm> zakim, unmute me
13:29:15 <Zakim> samuelm should no longer be muted
13:29:22 <Zakim> -kostas
13:29:23 <samuelm> samuelm has left #er
13:29:27 <Zakim> -philipA
13:29:28 <Zakim> -Shadi
13:29:30 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
13:29:30 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:29:30 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Shadi, Yehya, +49.711.892.3.aaaa, cstrobbe, philipA, +30231125aabb, kostas, samuelm
13:29:32 <Zakim> -samuelm
13:29:34 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has ended
13:29:34 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Yehya, +49.711.892.3.aaaa, cstrobbe, philipA, +30231125aabb, kostas, samuelm
13:29:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:29:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/12-er-minutes.html trackbot
13:29:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:29:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items