13:59:36 RRSAgent has joined #ldp 13:59:36 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/10-ldp-irc 13:59:38 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:59:40 Zakim, this will be LDP 13:59:41 Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference 13:59:41 Date: 10 September 2012 13:59:44 Zakim has joined #ldp 14:00:11 JohnArwe has joined #ldp 14:00:16 Zakim, this will be LDP 14:00:20 ok, mhausenblas, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started 14:00:37 +Arnaud 14:00:51 + +1.510.206.aabb 14:00:55 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:55 On the phone I see [IBM], +1.845.433.aaaa, Arnaud, +1.510.206.aabb 14:00:57 zakim, [IBM] is me 14:00:57 +SteveS; got it 14:01:02 zakim, aaaa is me 14:01:02 +JohnArwe; got it 14:01:03 +gavinc 14:01:12 +OpenLink_Software 14:01:13 +cygri 14:01:15 + +1.510.698.aacc 14:01:17 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 14:01:17 +MacTed; got it 14:01:18 Zakim, I am mhausenblas 14:01:18 sorry, mhausenblas, I do not see a party named 'mhausenblas' 14:01:18 zakim, dret is 510 14:01:19 Zakim, mute me 14:01:20 sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named 'dret' 14:01:23 MacTed should now be muted 14:01:27 Zakim, cygri really is mhausenblas 14:01:27 I don't understand 'cygri really is mhausenblas', mhausenblas 14:01:30 zalim 510 is dret 14:01:33 Zakim, I am cygri 14:01:33 ok, mhausenblas, I now associate you with cygri 14:01:41 + +1.714.454.aadd 14:01:44 zakim, 510 is dret 14:01:48 sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '510' 14:01:54 +??P16 14:01:59 RezaBFar has joined #ldp 14:02:07 zakim aabb is dret 14:02:10 Zakim, ??P16 is me 14:02:13 Zakim, cyrgi is me 14:02:14 +oberger; got it 14:02:16 sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'cyrgi' 14:02:24 Zakim, cygri is me 14:02:26 zakim, dret is aabb 14:02:31 zakim, aacc is me 14:02:34 +mhausenblas; got it 14:02:36 sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named 'dret' 14:02:43 +bblfish; got it 14:02:51 +Sandro 14:02:57 zakim, aabb is me 14:03:09 +dret; got it 14:03:16 hmmm.... am I the only one to not hear anything ? 14:03:20 ghard has joined #ldp 14:03:30 + +1.617.324.aaee 14:03:38 +Karl 14:03:40 oberger: I hear Arnaud and other noise 14:03:41 - +1.617.324.aaee 14:03:44 krp has joined #ldp 14:03:59 noise cancelation at arnaud's ? 14:04:11 + +1.617.324.aaff 14:04:11 ok, let's wait 14:04:36 -Yves 14:04:53 zakim, aaee is me 14:04:54 sorry, rgarcia, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee' 14:04:56 hi 14:05:08 -Karl 14:05:26 Zakim, pick a victim 14:05:26 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bblfish 14:05:31 +??P20 14:05:37 ah I scribed recently... 14:05:45 zakim, ??P20 is me 14:05:45 +rgarcia; got it 14:05:46 jkopecky has joined #ldp 14:05:51 scribenick: mhausenblas 14:06:02 Topic: Admin 14:06:02 +??P30 14:06:22 PROPOSAL: Accept meeting minutes from http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-08-20 14:06:28 Ashok_Malhotra has joined #ldp 14:06:29 +??P22 14:06:30 zakim, ??P30 is me 14:06:30 +krp; got it 14:06:37 +1 14:06:39 Zakim, ??P22 is me 14:06:39 +ghard; got it 14:06:47 +1 14:06:53 no problem +1 14:06:54 PROPOSAL: Accept meeting minutes from http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-08-27 14:07:14 RESOLUTION: Both meeting minutes have been approved by the WG 14:07:27 Topic: Tracking of issues and actions 14:07:39 Issues: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/ 14:07:44 -krp 14:08:00 +Yves 14:08:07 Arnaud: Not sure yet how extensive we gonna use it, but worth having a look at it and record them 14:08:13 +Ashok_Malhotra 14:08:14 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:08:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/10-ldp-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:08:19 -Yves 14:08:24 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:08:27 q? 14:08:33 +??P30 14:08:41 zakim, ??P30 is me 14:08:41 +krp; got it 14:08:43 jacekk has joined #ldp 14:08:44 + +44.208.573.aagg 14:08:59 +??P36 14:09:12 Arnaud: Every WG member can raise an issue and once accepted it will be marked as OPEN 14:10:24 714.454.aadd is me. Not sure why Zakim is not recognizing me. 14:10:37 Zakim, aadd is RezaBFar 14:10:38 +RezaBFar; got it 14:10:59 Arnaud: Let's review actions 14:11:15 ACTION-4? 14:11:15 ACTION-4 -- Steve Speicher to review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it -- due 2012-09-12 -- OPEN 14:11:15 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/4 14:11:22 I sent a mail out 14:11:26 SteveS: continues - next week, promise 14:11:35 ACTION-5? 14:11:35 ACTION-5 -- Henry Story to add use case for non rdf content addition -- due 2012-07-30 -- OPEN 14:11:35 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/5 14:11:44 -krp 14:11:50 bblfish: I did send out, yes 14:11:54 me can't see any note :-/ 14:12:09 in http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/5 14:12:13 bblfish: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Sep/0007.html 14:12:44 ok, will do that right after the call 14:12:51 close ACTION-5 14:12:51 ACTION-5 Add use case for non rdf content addition closed 14:12:57 mhausenblas, ;-) 14:13:55 I can re-word and put in wiki, then others can edit it 14:14:15 Kalpa has joined #ldp 14:14:24 nandana has joined #ldp 14:14:28 ACTION-6? 14:14:28 ACTION-6 -- Michael Hausenblas to review SDshare -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN 14:14:28 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/6 14:14:35 you're welcome 14:14:46 Michael: continues - been on vacation 14:14:59 +Yves 14:15:24 Michael: Graham Moore offered help, will deliver next week 14:15:48 jkopecky has joined #ldp 14:16:05 Arnaud: Now we're back to our weekly schedule 14:16:21 + +1.937.775.aahh 14:16:44 +??P40 14:16:53 … looking at the charter, the schedule says UCR were due in 07/2012, see http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter 14:17:09 Arnaud: We need to see to catch-up on these actions 14:17:28 Arnaud: FPWD are due for 10/2012 14:17:48 … we're slipping behind schedule, so we need to show some progress 14:18:17 btw, 1st of november is holiday in France... in case you're coming to Lyon... maybe some disruption of french public services to be expected on location 14:18:30 Arnaud: We need to have more discussions on the mailing list 14:18:32 (F2F TPAC) 14:18:34 it will be the same service as on a sunday 14:18:41 q+ to talk re process 14:18:42 Yves, yes 14:18:54 +??P42 14:18:57 Arnaud: Use telecons to resolve difficult issues 14:19:01 q? 14:19:34 q+ 14:19:45 q? 14:19:54 krp has joined #ldp 14:20:04 ack me 14:20:04 mhausenblas, you wanted to talk re process 14:20:30 -??P36 14:21:26 Michael: Agreed re progress but we need to work towards concrete proposals 14:21:27 q? 14:21:45 -??P42 14:22:21 ack bblfish 14:22:37 bblfish: PROPOSAL: Take the Member Submission as a FPWD 14:22:53 q? 14:23:09 q+ is their an editor/s? 14:23:09 krp_ has joined #ldp 14:23:19 q? 14:23:19 q+ to ask if their is an editor/s? 14:23:20 +1 to PROPOSAL to move submission to working draft 14:23:39 +1 to the PROPOSAL to move submission to working draft by bblfish 14:24:37 ack gavinc 14:24:37 gavinc, you wanted to ask if their is an editor/s? 14:24:49 I have volunteered 14:24:51 gavinc: is there an Editor in sight? 14:24:59 +1 14:25:06 Michael: +1 for editor 14:25:21 I can also help 14:25:26 It's always better to have 2 people :-) 14:25:47 Michael: Happy to chime in as well 14:25:56 obviously it is if we fallback on using the proposal as a draft ;) 14:26:10 q? 14:26:13 (looking like IBM alone ;) 14:26:46 mhausenblas, our messages crossed eachother 14:27:14 it's better to have somtehitng to start where we can say: passage x, or y needs to be changed.... 14:27:59 respec is cool 14:28:04 respec! 14:28:12 http://webid.info/spec/ used it 14:28:22 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html 14:28:36 -ghard 14:28:41 git 14:28:41 -RezaBFar 14:29:02 that one could be controversial topic for discussion ;) 14:29:10 you can use github, and sync with mercurial 14:29:21 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/linked-data/ ... is that us? 14:29:22 Sandro++ for git 14:29:29 doesn't look like it? 14:29:29 is there a DVCS with a REST API ? 14:29:39 no, gavinc 14:30:03 then, no I don't see an hg repo 14:30:09 not us 14:30:14 likewise 14:30:27 this is the webid mercurial http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID 14:30:45 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg has all the repo 14:30:50 ACTION: SteveS to publish member submission as FPWD with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas 14:30:50 Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveS 14:31:00 do we have/need consensus on that next action ? 14:31:12 Lost connect. Zakim keeps telling me the conference code's not valid. 14:31:13 ACTION: sspeiche to publish member submission as FPWD with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas 14:31:13 Created ACTION-10 - Publish member submission as FPWD with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas [on Steve Speicher - due 2012-09-17]. 14:31:23 uh 14:31:38 That action seems a bit strong ;) 14:31:51 +1 14:31:54 I think we were looking for a draft of a FPWD? 14:32:01 RESOLUTION: to move submission to working draft 14:32:04 not to publish it before anyone has seen it or it's been written? 14:32:08 yah; that was "convert member submission to working draft" 14:32:14 Ah okay :D 14:32:45 if yves needs my w3c id for setting up ACLS, it is jarwe 14:33:03 action 10? 14:33:03 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 14:33:10 action-10? 14:33:10 ACTION-10 -- Steve Speicher to publish member submission as FPWD with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN 14:33:10 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/10 14:33:14 Michael: Correct, it is initially an Editors Draft that, given WG approval will be turned into a FPWD 14:33:19 John, I'll check what is needed for dvcs, but it should be ok as long as you have a w3c id 14:33:51 q? 14:34:20 action-10? 14:34:20 ACTION-10 -- Steve Speicher to convert member submission to Editor's Draft, with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN 14:34:20 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/10 14:34:51 Tracking and then nice little ISSUE notes in the document? 14:35:09 repo should appear at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg 14:35:29 Michael: Thanks Yves! 14:35:30 thanks Yves 14:35:39 writable by all wg members 14:35:45 Michael: Can take care of creating the products in tracker 14:35:54 you mean, providing code ? 14:36:10 or "this is bad and fixing it is really hard"? 14:36:19 +1 gavinc 14:36:23 q? 14:37:11 Michael: The products are now in place , see https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/products 14:37:41 Michael: I suggest, from now on, please everyone, tag your issue and or action with one of the products - helps also the chairs 14:37:45 q? 14:38:04 sandro: FPWD should be published before TPAC 14:38:18 PROPOSAL: FPWD should be published before TPAC 14:38:23 Michael: +1 14:38:26 q? 14:38:37 +1, was what I was thinking as well 14:38:40 +0.9 (Not an editor, thus not +1 ;) ) 14:38:55 Arnaud: Any objections? 14:38:57 seems good to me 14:38:58 ack Yves 14:39:14 Yves: The FPWD need not be perfect 14:39:20 Michael: +1000000000000 14:39:23 release early, release often 14:39:24 -Ashok_Malhotra 14:39:26 +1 14:39:31 q? 14:39:36 Zakim, unmute me 14:39:36 MacTed should no longer be muted 14:39:41 AndyS has joined #ldp 14:40:09 MacTed: Is that check with publication moratoriums, etc 14:40:25 Arnaud: Agreed. Chairs and team contact will check 14:40:51 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2012AprJun/0093.html 14:40:57 Publishing moratoria second half of 2012 14:41:18 Michael: No publications the week of 29 October due to TPAC 2012: 14:41:24 October 29th, till...? 14:41:24 sandro, may I ask what that is ? 14:41:43 krp_ has joined #ldp 14:43:11 sandro: let everyon review and raise issues 14:43:17 << 14:43:19 Entrance criteria: The Chair MUST record the group's decision to request advancement. Since this is the first time that a document with this short name appears in the Technical Reports index, Director approval is REQUIRED for the transition. 14:43:19 q+ to propose reviewing process 14:43:20 >> 14:43:29 q? 14:43:41 ack me 14:43:41 mhausenblas, you wanted to propose reviewing process 14:45:03 mhausenblas: Let the chairs set a deadline by which time everyone has to RAISE any issues they have with the submission/fpwd 14:45:04 q? 14:45:06 +1 14:45:30 Michel: Suggest some 4 weeks WG-internal review period in which WG members can raise issues once ED is available 14:45:51 s/Michel/Michael 14:45:53 ACTION: chairs should define a timeline for working on the editor's draft and the FPWG 14:45:53 Sorry, couldn't find user - chairs 14:45:53 RESOLUTION: WG resolves that the FPWD should be published before TPAC 14:46:12 SteveS: two action items really: create ED first and then resolve FPWD 14:46:59 and we're discussing things that weren't really on the agenda initially ? 14:47:07 ACTION: Arnaud and dret define a timeline for working on the editor's draft and the FPWG 14:47:07 Created ACTION-11 - And dret define a timeline for working on the editor's draft and the FPWG [on Arnaud Le Hors - due 2012-09-17]. 14:47:14 of today's meeting I mean 14:47:18 just in case 14:47:37 if you are using those "shared actions" to keep them on people's radar, since they get reviewed at the start of each mtg, not seeing the harm. true that editors could not unilaterally fulfill action, but we humans know that. 14:48:30 q? 14:48:37 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:48:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/10-ldp-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:48:40 perhaps just make the chair responsible, and rephrase it: The chair opens discussion on the pre-published draft, and leaves 2-3 weeks for the questions before closing 14:48:49 sandro: step 1: editors turn submission into ED; step 2: each member of the WG raises all the issues they care about; step 3: editors make sure those issues are listed in the ED and get it publisehd as FPD. 14:48:57 s/FPD/FPWD 14:49:01 Topic: Next meeting and F2F 14:49:23 Arnaud: Next meeting is on September 17, 2012 14:49:29 I have not registered, but count me in 14:49:32 Arnaud: Please register at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F1 14:49:39 ah 14:49:46 bblfish, we can't count you in until you've paid. 14:49:49 chair: Arnaud 14:49:53 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:49:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/10-ldp-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:50:39 ok, added myself to http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F1#Participants 14:51:02 ah, ok. got to pay too then 14:51:20 q? 14:51:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Sep/0001.html 14:52:16 Arnaud: Assuming everyone is happy with the proposed way to go by Steve Battle, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Sep/0001.html 14:52:30 Not sure the ACL's on this page, but TPAC registration shows up here: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2012/registrants#LDP Seven attendees, two observers, so far. 14:52:41 Arnaud: No objections, so we assume we move on with this 14:52:54 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:52:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/10-ldp-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:53:44 Topic: Use Cases and Requirements 14:53:55 (scribe was sleeping, should really have been above) 14:54:03 Topic: Serialization formats 14:54:11 ISSUE-1? 14:54:11 ISSUE-1 -- Determine minimum serialization format for RDF data model -- raised 14:54:11 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/1 14:54:41 Arnaud: Seems we have wide agreement re Turtle 14:54:58 q+ to recommend that this WG review Turtle before the end of it's Last Call period 14:55:09 q? 14:55:25 ack gavinc 14:55:25 gavinc, you wanted to recommend that this WG review Turtle before the end of it's Last Call period 14:55:44 gavinc: With my Turtle Editors hat on, I support Turtle as the default 14:55:53 … LC for Turtle ends soon 14:55:58 … comments are welcome 14:55:59 ah it would be great to have = in turtle for owl:sameAs 14:56:04 Michael: +1 to use Turtle 14:56:05 http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/ 14:56:22 http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/07/13/rdf-working-group-publishes-turtle-as-last-call-working-draft/ 14:56:57 PROPOSAL: The WG decides to use RDF Turtle as the minimum serialization format 14:57:10 +1 14:57:11 +1 Yay Turtle 14:57:20 Michael: +1 14:57:31 +1 it's especially useful to have turtle in the examples in the spec 14:57:32 +1 14:57:36 +1 14:57:39 +1 14:57:42 +1 for turtle 14:57:43 +1 same as bblfish 14:57:44 ( rdf/xml is completely not understandable ) 14:58:21 Roger: I support RDF Turtle, JSON is also good 14:58:33 is RDF/JSON useful without code wrapping? If not, no diff from turtle 14:58:34 +1 for turtle 14:58:36 we should have a few required formats as possible (for interop) 14:58:44 s/a/as/ 14:58:48 Michael: +1 to dret 15:00:01 q? 15:00:02 I think we should definitely allow other formats om tje longer run. (perhaps there should be some documentation in there) 15:00:03 Sounds like: Turtle = MUST, JSON-LD = SHOULD 15:00:17 SteveS: +1 15:00:18 +1 for turtle as a minimum 15:00:22 and RDF/XML : shouldn't ? 15:00:35 oberger: RDF/XML maybe just unsaid 15:00:42 +1 turtle 15:00:43 i like the MUST/SHOULD (recommended supported serializations) approach 15:00:51 SteveS, it seems so unpopular, that we might as well take a stance ? ;) 15:01:18 oberger: my OSLC hat on, it will be a hard sell 15:01:22 We *MUST* allow other formats, but I don't think we should require more than one 15:01:39 Eclipse... Lyo ;) 15:01:42 yes SHOULD for RDF?XML 15:01:42 Arnaud: We might still REQUIRE or RECOMMEND other formats, although I agree one is probably best 15:01:54 agreed to Arnaus, 1 is the best number, 2 may be acceptable, anything bigger is probably not a good idea for interop 15:02:02 RESOLUTION: The WG decides to use RDF Turtle as the minimum serialization format 15:02:10 agree +1 for now Turtle is a MUST 15:02:14 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:02:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/10-ldp-minutes.html mhausenblas 15:02:21 +1 arnaud chairing today! :-) 15:02:24 :) 15:02:28 thanks everybody! 15:02:39 -bblfish 15:02:39 Please please please review http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/ or the edited ED http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html# 15:02:51 bye 15:02:55 (meeting adjourned) 15:02:58 -Yves 15:03:00 -SteveS 15:03:00 -Sandro 15:03:00 -dret 15:03:01 -mhausenblas 15:03:01 -rgarcia 15:03:03 - +44.208.573.aagg 15:03:04 -gavinc 15:03:06 -MacTed 15:03:07 -Arnaud 15:03:10 -oberger 15:03:11 - +1.937.775.aahh 15:03:13 -jkopecky 15:03:34 zakim aahh is me 15:03:37 -JohnArwe 15:03:38 SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended 15:03:38 Attendees were +1.845.433.aaaa, Arnaud, +1.510.206.aabb, SteveS, JohnArwe, gavinc, +1.510.698.aacc, MacTed, +1.714.454.aadd, oberger, mhausenblas, bblfish, Sandro, dret, 15:03:38 ... +1.617.324.aaee, Karl, +1.617.324.aaff, Yves, rgarcia, krp, ghard, Ashok_Malhotra, +44.208.573.aagg, RezaBFar, +1.937.775.aahh, jkopecky 15:09:22