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14:58:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:58:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:58:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:58:05 <trackbot> Meeting: MultilingualWeb-LT Working Group Teleconference
14:58:05 <trackbot> Date: 06 September 2012
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14:58:44 <daveL> Meeting: MLW-lT Phone call 6th September 2012
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15:04:04 <Yves_> Scribe: Yves_
15:04:53 <Yves_> Regrets: Moritz, Felix
15:05:11 <Yves_> Regrets: Jan
15:05:28 <Arle> Hi all: I will be a bit late for the call. Apologies.
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15:05:52 <daveL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Sep/0023.html
15:06:04 <Yves_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Sep/0023.html
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15:06:50 <Yves_> Dave: go through the agenda
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15:07:45 <Yves_> .. Pedro sent a mail about implementation, will cover that in the action items
15:07:50 <daveL> Topic: approve minutes
15:07:58 <daveL> http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html
15:08:25 <Yves_> Dave: minutes from last meeting approved
15:08:30 <daveL> Topic:  Test suite development
15:08:55 <Yves_> Dave: anyone had any chance to look at the page?
15:09:06 <Yves_> .. probably not. so here is an update
15:09:22 <daveL> http://phaedrus.scss.tcd.ie/its2.0/its-testsuite.html
15:09:25 <Yves_> .. new section in the wiki home
15:09:52 <Yves_> .. currently hosted at TDC, but should be moved to W3C at some point
15:10:19 <Yves_> .. similar to ITS 1.0 test suite
15:10:46 <Yves_> .. each data category has a set of conformance tests touching on each aspect of the data category
15:11:04 <Yves_> .. (global, local, linked, etc.)
15:11:15 <daveL> http://phaedrus.scss.tcd.ie/its2.0/expected/translate/xml/Translate1-result.xml
15:11:38 <Yves_> .. each entry has an input file (possibly with external rules) and an output
15:12:02 <Yves_> .. the output shows the values of the data category per node 9including attributes)
15:12:42 <Yves_> .. Leroy, Dom worked hard on this: they added HTML5 examples, and cases for the 2.0 features
15:12:54 <Yves_> .. we should freeze the document in November
15:13:16 <Yves_> .. we need to make sure the output format is useable by all implementers
15:13:22 <daveL> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Test_Suite_Development
15:13:40 <Yves_> .. the link above explains the test suite
15:14:02 <Yves_> .. we need to add tracking as a table that Dom will add soon
15:14:14 <Yves_> .. will be asking people to check the output
15:14:35 <Yves_> .. to be sure we have a 'right' golden file.
15:14:56 <Yves_> .. We also need to have people committing to generate those output for test conformance
15:15:10 <Yves_> .. we need two implementation for each feature
15:15:26 <Yves_> s/implementation/implementations/
15:15:47 <Yves_> .. we will need also a estimated date for the output to be available
15:16:38 <Yves_> .. We'll work on getting this done before Prague and have a session on this during the meeting.
15:17:20 <daveL> Topic: Documenting use case implementation
15:17:42 <Yves_> Dave: test cases is what we must do for the W3C recommendation
15:18:25 <Yves_> .. but real world implementations have additional, richer functionalities.
15:18:58 <Yves_> .. so we need to have show cases, that really demonstrate the features
15:19:22 <Yves_> .. we have a few commitements for this from the Web-LT partners
15:19:26 <daveL> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs
15:19:37 <Yves_> .. see the link to deliverables above
15:20:05 <Yves_> .. those show how ITS works in real life scenarios
15:20:26 <Yves_> .. We need to record and track those demos/show cases
15:20:49 <daveL> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments#Use_Case_Demonstrations
15:20:57 <Yves_> .. We do this in the page above
15:21:23 <daveL> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_Case_Demonstration_Template
15:21:56 <Yves_> .. I've put a template for that information. See link above
15:23:02 <Yves_> .. For Web-LT partners those pages will be associated to our deliverables.
15:23:18 <Yves_> .. Would like to get feedback on this.
15:23:39 <Yves_> .. Do everyone get the difference between test suite and show cases.
15:23:58 <Yves_> Des: yes, would be happy to help to provide use cases.
15:24:44 <Yves_> Dave: Would be nice to also use the same terminology across use cases (call the same process with the same term for example)
15:25:11 <Yves_> .. This would help also documenting the work packages
15:26:03 <Yves_> Pedro: understand concern about having such use cases
15:26:28 <Yves_> .. understand we need something simple and bit bit 'sexy'
15:26:39 <Yves_> .. will use your template
15:27:08 <Yves_> .. for our show cases. All the technical stuff can be done apart.
15:27:15 <Yves_> .. so no problem for us
15:27:55 <Yves_> Dave: good. We did some work with Declan and David too, so we'll provide use cases like that too.
15:28:13 <Yves_> .. we need to provide business use cases
15:28:39 <Yves_> Pedro: Note that most demo use open-source tools
15:29:04 <Yves_> .. so it's actually usable by others
15:29:12 <Yves_> Dave: agree
15:29:26 <daveL> Topic: Firm up Agenda for Prague Meeting
15:29:55 <daveL> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012#Agenda
15:30:07 <Yves_> Dave: Link above is the agenda for the Prague meeting
15:30:36 <Yves_> .. Two days only
15:30:50 <Yves_> .. we need to discuss the data categories, the test suites
15:31:05 <Yves_> .. advance the draft. we'll have another draft after Prague
15:31:20 <Yves_> .. we would like to have all data categories decided
15:31:48 <Yves_> .. work after should be improving the draft, no drastic changes
15:32:05 <Yves_> .. everyone there in the morning?
15:32:24 <Ankit> DCU will be there in the morning..
15:32:44 <Yves_> .. most people should be there in the morning.
15:32:52 <Des> I'll be arriving 24th 
15:33:16 <Yves_> Will arrive the 24th too
15:33:36 <Yves_> Df: looking at test suite, it's mostly processing input files
15:33:49 <Yves_> .. what about our case which is processing XLIFF
15:33:59 <Yves_> .. should it be considered as XML?
15:34:51 <Yves_> Dave: can we do conformance test with XLIFF? probably not if it was the only option. But may that could be an additional output format(?)
15:35:06 <Yves_> .. pros: useful format, save some efort 
15:35:13 <Yves_> s/efort/efforts/
15:35:27 <Yves_> .. cons: one more format to check
15:35:56 <Yves_> .. need also a deterministic way to test XLIFF (to allow comparison)
15:36:20 <Yves_> .. this need to be looked at.
15:37:05 <Yves_> Df: some this is something we need to discuss during the meeting
15:37:18 <Yves_> dave: we do have this in the Web-LT plan
15:37:39 <Yves_> .. having XLIFF as part of the conformance tests is another story
15:38:11 <Yves_> .. our current suite is geared toward same context as ITS 1.0
15:38:27 <Yves_> .. ITS 2.0 has different ranges of data categories
15:38:42 <daveL> scribe: daveL
15:38:53 <daveL> dF: asks Yves how they plan to test
15:39:23 <daveL> Yves_: plans to provide tests suite output as it is for OKAPI
15:40:03 <daveL> ... for other implementations have many other options, including different inline markup
15:40:24 <daveL> ... for okapi have unit tests included using the test suite
15:41:28 <daveL> Des: its important that implementation that just use XLIFF need to be tested for conformance
15:41:36 <daveL> Yves_: agrees
15:42:02 <daveL> ... may be able to develop XLIFF input for tests
15:43:02 <daveL> dF: i see XLIFF test suite could then add a lot to the test suite
15:43:39 <daveL> Des: it will be important to show ITS compliance of XLIFF systems
15:44:02 <daveL> Pedro: for there system they are supporting XLIFF
15:44:15 <Yves_> Scribe: Yves_
15:44:56 <Yves_> Dave: we have several use cases with XLIFF
15:45:20 <Yves_> .. maybe way forward could be to take scenario for those and look at possible input/output
15:46:02 <Yves_> dF: Tracking original may be a good way too
15:46:10 <Yves_> .. will discuss with LRC developers
15:46:31 <Yves_> action: DavidF to generate a sample for this 
15:46:31 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - DavidF
15:46:40 <Yves_> action: Df to generate a sample for this 
15:46:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-215 - Generate a sample for this  [on David Filip - due 2012-09-13].
15:47:26 <Yves_> Dave: we need a way to show conformance through XLIFF basically.
15:47:40 <Yves_> .. back to the agenda
15:47:58 <Yves_> .. Morning day 1: look at the data categories
15:48:15 <Yves_> .. then test suite and committements
15:48:37 <Yves_> .. then afternoon for implementation demos
15:49:11 <Yves_> .. Listed in page
15:49:26 <Yves_> .. Pedro will also show something
15:49:51 <Yves_> Pedro: Could be nice to have parallel working sessions
15:50:03 <Yves_> for partners of working packages
15:50:18 <Yves_> .. maybe could have 1h or 1.5h for this
15:50:22 <Ankit> DCU also hopes to have a demo showing their MaTrEx MT system handling some ITS meta data segments
15:50:26 <Yves_> .. would help implementation.
15:50:35 <Yves_> Dave: actually this is in day 2.
15:50:48 <Ankit> yes
15:51:05 <Yves_> .. so day 1: also DCU MT demos, and possibly XLIFF round-rtip from David
15:51:37 <Yves_> Phil: also example with RDF
15:52:27 <Yves_> dF: could show our integration. But also maybe extraction in SOLAS project
15:53:00 <Yves_> Dave: even if not all the ITS functionality is there it would help people to see the round-trip.
15:53:19 <Yves_> .. and show the platform that support XLIFF, XML, provenance, etc.
15:54:04 <Yves_> dF: we don't like the way the test suite encode the disambiguation. will need to work on this.
15:54:32 <Yves_> Dave: would like to give everyone 30mn
15:54:45 <Yves_> .. then we have wrap up for Day 1.
15:55:00 <Yves_> .. For day 2: editorial work on the draft
15:55:16 <Yves_> .. then editing session and group work, possibly in parallel
15:55:28 <Yves_> .. implementer could have more time too.
15:55:43 <Yves_> .. afternoon: need to plan how to move the specification forward
15:56:03 <Yves_> .. TPAC meeting, and Workshop in March
15:56:23 <Yves_> .. we'll need to plan to see how.when to start advertising the specification
15:56:47 <Yves_> dF: Mid-October in LocWorld could be a good place to start 'making noise'
15:56:55 <Yves_> .. need to do this before it's frozen
15:57:03 <Yves_> Dave: good point
15:57:11 <Yves_> .. essentially need a marketing plan
15:57:30 <Yves_> dF: will have good audience in LocWorld
15:57:38 <Yves_> Dave: running out of time
15:57:54 <Yves_> .. let carry on on the mailing list. 
15:58:05 <Yves_> .. pedro action 162?
15:58:18 <Yves_> Pedro: I sent an example. We can talk about it later
15:58:55 <Yves_> .. includes real example for readiness
15:59:29 <Yves_> Dave: we have simalar implementation for readiness with CMIS
15:59:48 <Yves_> Pedro: CMS is one example, other is HTML.
16:00:42 <Yves_> Dave: what about LQP?
16:00:51 <Yves_> Yves: ready, voting attribute added.
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16:01:18 <Yves_> rrsagent, generate draft
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'generate draft', Yves_.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:01:31 <Ankit> :quit
16:01:49 <daveL> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:01:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-mlw-lt-minutes.html daveL
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