13:58:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
13:58:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-gld-irc
13:58:41 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #gld
13:58:43 <gatemezi> gatemezi has joined #gld
13:58:46 <sandro> RRSAgent, start meeting
13:58:46 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', sandro.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:58:47 <bhyland> Agenda for today: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120906
13:59:12 <PhilA2> zakim, code?
13:59:12 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA2, I don't know what conference this is
13:59:17 <PhilA2> zakim, this is GLD
13:59:17 <Zakim> ok, PhilA2; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
13:59:21 <PhilA2> zakim, code?
13:59:21 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA2
13:59:30 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #gld
13:59:36 <Zakim> +??P14
13:59:41 <PhilA2> zakim, ??P14 is me
13:59:41 <Zakim> +PhilA2; got it
14:00:12 <PhilA> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120906
14:00:27 <PhilA> Chair: Bernadette
14:01:22 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aaaa
14:01:38 <PhilA> Regrets+ George Thomas, Tina Gheen, Deirdre Lee, Gerald Steeman, Yigal Arens, Bart van Leeuwen, Boris Villazón-Terrazas, Michael Hausenblas
14:02:02 <PhilA> zakim, aaaa is gatemezi
14:02:02 <Zakim> +gatemezi; got it
14:02:36 <LuisBermudez> LuisBermudez has joined #gld
14:02:42 <BenediktKaempgen> BenediktKaempgen has joined #gld
14:02:42 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see davidwood, Sandro, PhilA2, gatemezi
14:03:29 <sandro> zakim, davidwood is bhyland 
14:03:32 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #gld
14:03:36 <Zakim> + +1.267.481.aabb
14:04:02 <Zakim> +bhyland; got it
14:04:19 <LuisBermudez> aabb is me
14:04:31 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who's here?
14:04:33 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:04:40 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is LuisBermudez
14:04:52 <Zakim> + +49.721.aacc
14:05:06 <DaveReynolds> zakim, aacc is me
14:05:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:05:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, PhilA2, gatemezi, +1.267.481.aabb, +49.721.aacc, [IPcaller]
14:05:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, PhilA2, gatemezi, +1.267.481.aabb, +49.721.aacc, [IPcaller]
14:05:49 <Zakim> +LuisBermudez; got it
14:06:08 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, aacc is BenediktKaempgen
14:06:17 <DaveReynolds> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:06:23 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it
14:06:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see DaveReynolds, BenediktKaempgen, LuisBermudez, HadleyBeeman, gatemezi, PhilA, RRSAgent, Zakim, mhausenblas, MacTed, cygri, cgueret_work, bhyland, trackbot, sandro
14:07:21 <Zakim> sorry, BenediktKaempgen, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
14:07:25 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it
14:07:56 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
14:08:03 <PhilA> scribeNick: PhilA
14:08:11 <PhilA> Topic: Review of last week's minutes
14:08:18 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-08-30
14:08:29 <PhilA> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-08-30 -> Minutes of last week
14:09:02 <cygri> zakim, code?
14:09:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
14:09:06 <PhilA> bhyland: Last week we talked about what we need to do to improve our messaging
14:09:12 <Zakim> +??P55
14:09:15 <cygri> zakim, P55 is me
14:09:15 <Zakim> sorry, cygri, I do not recognize a party named 'P55'
14:09:22 <cygri> zakim, ??P55 is me
14:09:22 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
14:09:34 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds.a
14:09:54 <BenediktKaempgen> +1
14:09:55 <Zakim> +??P30
14:09:55 <gatemezi> +1 
14:09:59 <sandro> Zakim, DaveReynolds is BenediktKaempgen
14:09:59 <Zakim> +BenediktKaempgen; got it
14:10:02 <DaveReynolds> zakim, ??P30 is me
14:10:02 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it
14:10:02 <PhilA> bhyland: Do we have approval for last week's minutes?
14:10:10 <bhyland> Thanks. Minutes for last week approved.
14:10:34 <PhilA> Resolution: Minutes approved
14:10:41 <Zakim> +??P56
14:10:52 <PhilA> Topic: Community Directory
14:10:53 <bhyland> Topic: Community Directory
14:10:54 <cgueret_work> zakim, ??P56 is me
14:10:54 <Zakim> +cgueret_work; got it
14:11:14 <PhilA> bhyland: We haven't revisited this for quite a while (January :-( )
14:11:28 <bhyland> http://dir.w3.org
14:11:28 <PhilA> bhyland: Little has happened in terms of evolution of it
14:11:44 <PhilA> bhyland: It was updated to the latest version of Callimachus
14:12:25 <bhyland> http://dir.w3.org/rdf/2012/directory/categories-list.xhtml?view
14:12:26 <PhilA> bhyland: If you go to the directory statistics http://dir.w3.org/rdf/2012/directory/statistics.xhtml?view
14:12:50 <PhilA> bhyland: we have about 70 organisations, for example. Getting a member request about once a fortnight
14:12:57 <Zakim> +George_Thomas
14:13:09 <PhilA> bhyland: It's perhaps looking out of date in some places. Usability is not as good as we'd like
14:13:13 <George> George has joined #gld
14:13:49 <PhilA> bhyland: So I want to get some feedback and get some volunteers to join a meeting to flesh out some requirements to make it more compelling etc.
14:14:08 <Zakim> + +91.80.67.84.aadd
14:14:12 <PhilA> bhyland: I asked folk to come prepared today with the URL of a directory that was useful and usable
14:14:25 <bhyland> zakim, aadd is Biplav
14:14:25 <Zakim> +Biplav; got it
14:14:27 <bhyland> q?
14:14:39 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Community_Directory_Requirements
14:14:45 <PhilA> bhyland: Any comments?
14:15:04 <PhilA> bhyland: Appeals for honesty...
14:15:30 <PhilA> http://www.crossover-project.eu/ExpertsOrganisations.aspx -> Crossover Directory
14:16:06 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
14:16:11 <bhyland> PhilA: The Crossover Directory is different but has some of the same issues, namely lack of current content.
14:16:59 <bhyland> … PhilA suggested some of the human aspects of directories ...
14:17:33 <bhyland> … common problem is people working in isolation, collectively not achieving the desired outcome.
14:18:45 <PhilA> bhyland: The one I think of is Slideshare. I don't like the proprietary, locked down aspect but it's mighty useful
14:18:57 <bhyland> q?
14:19:07 <PhilA> bhyland: Getting Linked Data info into people's hands is important, no?
14:19:23 <PhilA> bhyland: What would make a difference to DERI, for example?
14:20:02 <PhilA> cygri: Hard to say... one thing that strikes me as important is ability to showcase projects and products that we have done
14:20:35 <PhilA> cygri: We want to say more than "hello, we do LD research" - we want to say we have this OS software, as have produced X etc.
14:20:44 <PhilA> cygri: So that level of detail would help
14:21:04 <Zakim> +Sandro.a
14:21:12 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:21:21 <PhilA> bhyland: Hadley - in organising events etc. Would it be helpful to have a list of organisations who are doing work in this field?
14:21:38 <HadleyBeeman> hi
14:21:38 <HadleyBeeman> sorry
14:21:51 <PhilA> q+ HadleyBeeman
14:21:55 <PhilA> q+
14:22:13 <HadleyBeeman> As with the community directory, if we take on the challenge of creating and maintaining a list of events, it's a resource commitment.
14:22:17 <George> http://opencorporates.com/
14:22:34 <George> "We have information on 44,411,651 companies"
14:22:38 <bhyland> q?
14:22:42 <PhilA> bhyland: Basically, how can we make it useful for the thing we want to promote
14:23:11 <HadleyBeeman> Also, there are others chasing lists of events of open data, linked data, government data…  I'd have a look at lanyrd, data.gov.uk, the OKFN, etc.
14:23:15 <PhilA> George: Raises us of business vocabulary by Open Corporates and its 43 million entries etc.
14:23:33 <PhilA> bhyland: You said it's more about the fact that you can list the info than having our own directory?
14:24:04 <PhilA> George: In the spirit of LD we want it to be easy to incorporate data etc.
14:24:20 <Zakim> -cygri
14:24:31 <PhilA> bhyland: You say that if we produce a standalone data we should be able to include data from Open Corporates etc. - so we can take data in and out
14:24:39 <Zakim> +??P12
14:24:44 <cygri> zakim, ??P12 is me
14:24:44 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
14:24:45 <PhilA> bhyland: So the data is two way
14:25:27 <bhyland> q?
14:25:29 <PhilA> bhyland: But the other piece is the usefulness of what we're capturing - if we agree we need it then we need an effort to make the site usable (incl. baic things like specifying a country)
14:25:32 <HadleyBeeman> q-
14:25:41 <PhilA> ack me
14:25:44 <bhyland> ack HadleyBeeman
14:26:15 <cygri> q+
14:26:22 <bhyland> PhilA: We touched on this in June 2012, the Comm Directory could act as a showcase of good linked open data.  
14:26:52 <bhyland> … for example, the bathing (swimming for us yanks) water visualization was wonderful.
14:27:11 <bhyland> … Consider focus on visualizations.
14:28:13 <bhyland> … Data portals, like data.gov.uk, will include sections on apps that are on that specific data portal site, e.g., "latest", "good visualizations".
14:28:41 <bhyland> … We need apps that will make policy makers stand up and say, 'that is cool, I want that for my agency!'
14:29:08 <bhyland> … Add some info about who created the app, etc.
14:29:12 <bhyland> q?
14:29:13 <PhilA> bhyland: Any more comments?
14:29:14 <Biplav> q+
14:29:16 <bhyland> ack cygri
14:29:31 <PhilA> cygri: I guess what we're finding is that we're relying on people entering data about themselves and their projects
14:29:44 <PhilA> cygri: So the data ends up being variable in quality to put it mildly
14:29:49 <bhyland> cygri: If we rely on people entering info themselves, the info is both variable in quality and potentially uncompelling.
14:29:56 <bhyland> … Do we need a curator?
14:29:56 <PhilA> cygri: So do we need someone to be a more active curator?
14:30:17 <PhilA> cygri: It's difficult to get to a good level of collection of data without some level of curation
14:30:36 <PhilA> cygri: Someone to highlight certain things, important aspects etc.
14:30:52 <PhilA> cygri: This raises the question of who, of course...
14:31:24 <PhilA> cygri: At the moement, it's not going to make or break someone whetehr they are or are not in the directlry
14:31:25 <bhyland> … it isn't going to 'make or break anyone's business if they are in the directory today ...'
14:31:42 <PhilA> cygri: So few people will care about it enough to give it sime
14:32:03 <PhilA> cygri: If the info there isn't complete then there's no incentive for maintaining it
14:32:25 <PhilA> bhyland: I agree with all of your points
14:32:36 <PhilA> bhyland: I'd like it to be on people's radar
14:32:57 <PhilA> bhyland: Make it somewhere for people to look for help making the business case or speakers etc.
14:33:33 <PhilA> bhyland: A pharma co. has anounced it's putting money into orgs like DERI rather than doing it themselves. So having a go to place with the weight of the w3.org namespace can be compelling
14:33:45 <PhilA> ... the variability of the daat doesn't help
14:34:06 <sandro> q+ to muse about selling dogfood
14:35:07 <HadleyBeeman> I know I'm not fully in the conversation today, but I think we should take care around the line between building the tools and standards to make government linked data useful and usable — and protecting individual companies, business models, marketing, etc.
14:35:11 <cygri> biplav: people will be interested in datasets that are avaialbe; value that it can provide; and who are people i can contact for my problem
14:35:25 <bhyland> Biplav: Wants directory to list: What are the datasets, what has been the impact, what have been the benefits?  Better visualization is compelling.
14:36:20 <cygri> biplav: concrete measurements, dollar impact, to grab people's attention
14:36:54 <PhilA> bhyland: You're saying things like concrete measurements etc. is what anyone would need to make a decision on spending money
14:37:06 <cygri> q+ to suggest focusing on a small area and aim for completeness + high quality
14:37:16 <PhilA> bhyland: we need to move away from research and more into enterprise way of thinking
14:37:20 <gatemezi> How could you see the benefits of datasets different from that we have for e.g. here in http://thedatahub.org/
14:37:52 <bhyland> +1 to Biplav
14:37:52 <PhilA> Biplav: We have a transformation department. If I tell them they should use LD, they'd say why? They need a quantification of what was possible before and what would be possible afterweards
14:38:03 <PhilA> ack sandro
14:38:03 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to muse about selling dogfood
14:38:12 <bhyland> ack Biplav
14:38:13 <Biplav> transformation => transportation
14:38:51 <PhilA> sandro: I was concerned about the directory - us being caught up in a dog food project. But... maybe we could focus on the data and not the UI quality?
14:39:14 <PhilA> sandro: Maybe something like an ISWC challenge? Ask people with relevant expertise so we'd be the showcase for their work?
14:39:29 <PhilA> ... so we'd be a feed of data about open data projects
14:39:44 <PhilA> ... I'm scared about diverting energy but it might work?
14:39:49 <PhilA> bhyland: Interesting
14:40:02 <Zakim> -cygri
14:40:29 <PhilA> George: The challenges I've been involved with have been regulated by the America Competes Act
14:40:30 <Zakim> +??P1
14:40:33 <cygri> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:40:33 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
14:40:41 <PhilA> ... need to reach out to the communities that would be interested
14:41:02 <PhilA> ... lots of otehr less-regulatory driven challenges and then can be pretty high touch. Someone has been heavily involved
14:41:14 <PhilA> ... i.e. it takes person power
14:41:39 <Biplav> What we are discussing is a good topic for a workshop at a conference like ISWC, I think.
14:42:09 <PhilA> George: Being able to repurpose the data is good of course. Maybe we could set up a SPARQL Push ??
14:42:09 <bhyland> No, not a workshop, a potential challenge targeted at the right group of developers once we are further along ...
14:42:14 <bhyland> q?
14:42:22 <bhyland> ack cygri
14:42:22 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to suggest focusing on a small area and aim for completeness + high quality
14:42:28 <PhilA> PhilA: Sounds like a sponsorship/funded project oppoertunity??
14:43:05 <PhilA> cygri: Repurposing hte data is interesting but it only becomes interesting if the data is good and interesting. And that's the challenge. Worrying too much about the tech side could be a bit of a distraction if we don't have that quality
14:43:08 <BenediktKaempgen> +1 to having a challenge to find interesting content for community directory
14:43:10 <George> PuSH - DERI did some work that does a SPARQL query on a PubSubHubbub (PuSH) feed hub
14:43:19 <George> so 
14:43:34 <PhilA> cygri: So I'm a little worried about going in that direction
14:44:01 <bhyland> +! to what cygri is saying that the data needs to be more complete & is a valuable resource that people *want* to combine for some interesting insights
14:44:17 <PhilA> cygri: One idea for how we may improve the data quality might be to limit the scope to a particular topic
14:44:40 <PhilA> cygri: The 'open gov data' space is very big. Maybe we can focus on a domain?
14:44:50 <PhilA> cygri: Try to establish completeness and quality?
14:45:02 <PhilA> ... and then expand, based on that success?
14:45:53 <cygri> ack me
14:45:55 <PhilA> cygri: No idea what that topic could be
14:46:02 <PhilA> PhilA: Agriculture?
14:46:44 <bhyland> q?
14:46:50 <PhilA> sandro: I'd say that if even one of us were motivated to spend ~ 4 hours per week on digging up info - we could have a pretty high quality data set. It seems to me that Gov LD is only a couple of hundred people
14:47:16 <PhilA> bhyland: If we just limited it to 4 hours then that sounds like an excellent job for a new hire/intern
14:48:33 <PhilA> action: bhyland to get a Computer Science Intern to spend ca. 4 hours a week on gathering data for the directory
14:48:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Get a Computer Science Intern to spend ca. 4 hours a week on gathering data for the directory [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2012-09-13].
14:48:47 <Biplav> q+
14:49:38 <sandro> bhyland: I'll see if I can find an intern to do this kind of work, eg 4hrs/wk
14:50:17 <sandro> bhyland: At the end of the day, the technology doesn't matter very much.   If we produce turtle & human-readable-stuff, that's enough.
14:50:37 <sandro> bhyland: The point is it's a data-driven app, and some better tool comes along, they can slurp up the RDF.
14:50:54 <bhyland> q?
14:50:58 <PhilA> bhyland: It shouldn't be about proving RDF, that's a given...
14:51:00 <sandro> bhyland: It's a given that we produce human + machine-readable output from this.
14:51:19 <PhilA> Biplav: If you could share what you are thinking of the Intern doing I might be able to help with resources :-)
14:51:48 <PhilA> bhyland: I'll get a description and if you can help find an alternative or additional person that wouldbe great
14:51:57 <PhilA> ... no modelling or vocab development etc.
14:52:37 <bhyland> Topic: ISA Programme Vocabs update by PhilA
14:53:04 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:53:20 <bhyland> @PhilA, actually there is some work to be done by the editors … 
14:53:45 <DaveReynolds> q-
14:54:20 <bhyland> Agreed, we all want the vocabs to move to LC by TPAC (late Oct 2012(
14:54:27 <bhyland> s/9/0
14:55:42 <Zakim> -cygri
14:55:57 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #gld
14:56:08 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:56:15 <Zakim> +??P1
14:56:19 <cygri> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:56:19 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
14:57:19 <Biplav> q-
14:58:06 <Zakim> -Biplav
14:58:20 <cygri> q?
14:58:25 <PhilA> ack DaveReynolds
14:58:53 <bhyland> thanks PhilA and DaveReynolds for concise action request.
14:59:25 <PhilA> DaveReynolds: Comfortable with the schemas going in place. Looks to me as if, modulo my comments, the spec docs look good for FPWD
15:00:23 <PhilA> Proposed Resolution: RDF schemnas fopr ADMS and Buisiness Vocav move to /ns space. *ADMS is an update)
15:00:40 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:00:42 <cygri> +1
15:00:43 <cgueret> +1
15:00:44 <bhyland> s/Vocav/Vocab
15:00:46 <bhyland> +1
15:00:51 <BenediktKaempgen> +1
15:00:51 <gatemezi> +1
15:00:55 <cygri> q+
15:00:56 <cgueret> s/schemnas/schemas
15:01:01 <bhyland> Love this bias towards action!
15:01:12 <cygri> q-
15:01:13 <George> +1
15:01:17 <BenediktKaempgen> Announcement: WS related to QB work (2nd Workshop on Semantic Statistics for Social, Behavioural, and Economic Sciences: Leveraging the DDI Model for the Linked Data Web ) - http://www.gesis.org/en/events/gesis-workshops/ddi/
15:01:18 <PhilA> PhilA: Thank you DaveReynolds for your helpful comments
15:01:21 <Zakim> -LuisBermudez
15:01:33 <cgueret> bye
15:01:35 <gatemezi> thanks all!
15:01:36 <Zakim> -cygri
15:01:37 <George> thanks bhyland :0
15:01:39 <BenediktKaempgen> bye
15:01:41 <Zakim> -PhilA2
15:01:41 <George> :)
15:01:42 <Zakim> -bhyland
15:01:43 <Zakim> -gatemezi
15:01:45 <Zakim> -George_Thomas
15:01:46 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
15:01:47 <Zakim> -BenediktKaempgen
15:01:47 <bhyland> thanks everyone, very productive discussion.  Appreciate it.
15:01:48 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:01:58 <PhilA> bhyland: If you had a directory URL to point to anotehr directory, please add it :-)
15:18:14 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has left #gld
15:19:41 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:19:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-gld-minutes.html PhilA
15:19:52 <PhilA> zakim, bye
15:19:52 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Sandro, PhilA2, +33.4.93.00.aaaa, gatemezi, +1.267.481.aabb, bhyland, +49.721.aacc, LuisBermudez, cygri, BenediktKaempgen,
15:19:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #gld
15:19:55 <Zakim> ... DaveReynolds, cgueret_work, George_Thomas, +91.80.67.84.aadd, Biplav
15:20:02 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:20:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-gld-minutes.html PhilA
15:20:37 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
15:20:41 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:20:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-gld-minutes.html PhilA
17:19:11 <PhilA> PhilA has left #gld
18:08:23 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #gld
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19:51:30 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #gld