13:11:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:11:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/05-rd-irc
13:11:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:11:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:11:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:11:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
13:11:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:11:53 <trackbot> Date: 05 September 2012
13:11:58 <shadi> Chair: Abou-Zahra_Shadi
13:11:58 <shadi> Regrets+ Harper_Simon
13:11:58 <shadi> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:11:58 <shadi> Agenda+ E2R Call Status (10m) - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_4_pre-call [klaus]
13:11:58 <shadi> Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)  [shadi]
13:11:59 <shadi> Agenda+ Next Topic Discussions (10m) [all]
13:12:01 <shadi> Agenda+ CfP Simplified Page Format (15m) [peter]
13:12:03 <shadi> Agenda+ New Symposium Web Page Designs (5m)  [shawn]
13:12:05 <shadi> Agenda+ Alternative Teleconferencing Service (15m) [shadi]
13:12:07 <shadi> Agenda+ Alternative Conference Publishing Venues (15m) [all]
13:12:10 <shadi> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
13:12:11 <shadi> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper]
13:13:41 <shadi> regrets+ Luz
13:14:05 <vivienne> vivienne has joined #rd
13:24:41 <Klaus> Klaus has joined #rd
13:25:11 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:25:17 <Zakim> +??P6
13:25:55 <Klaus> zakim, ??P6 is me
13:25:55 <Zakim> +Klaus; got it
13:26:12 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
13:26:12 <Zakim> sorry, Klaus, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
13:28:12 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:28:22 <annika> annika has joined #rd
13:28:33 <Zakim> +??P8
13:28:36 <Justin_> Justin_ has joined #rd
13:29:26 <Justin_> zakim, ??p8 is me
13:29:26 <Zakim> +Justin_; got it
13:29:54 <markel> markel has joined #rd
13:30:08 <Zakim> +??P9
13:30:13 <vivienne> zakim, ??P9 is me
13:30:13 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
13:30:39 <Zakim> +??P10
13:30:43 <shawn> shawn has joined #rd
13:30:50 <Zakim> +??P11
13:30:55 <markel> zakim, ??P10 is markel
13:30:55 <Zakim> +markel; got it
13:30:58 <Zakim> +Shawn
13:31:02 <Yehya> Yehya has joined #rd
13:31:11 <annika> zakim, ??P11 is annika
13:31:11 <Zakim> +annika; got it
13:31:27 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:31:27 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
13:31:35 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
13:31:36 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
13:31:43 <annika> zakim , mute me
13:32:11 <Yehya> zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Yehya
13:32:11 <Zakim> +Yehya; got it
13:32:14 <Zakim> +??P14
13:32:29 <giorgio> zakim, ??p14 is giorgio
13:32:29 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
13:33:06 <markel> that's very welcoming ;-)
13:33:32 <shadi> scribe: giorgio 
13:33:38 <shadi> agenda?
13:33:57 <giorgio> zakim, take up next
13:33:57 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
13:34:09 <shadi> regrets+ Kerstin
13:34:12 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
13:34:12 <Zakim> agendum 2. "E2R Call Status (10m) - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_4_pre-call" taken up [from klaus via shadi]
13:34:45 <giorgio> sbz: last week we accepted the e2r call 
13:35:15 <giorgio> s\sbz\saz\
13:35:57 <giorgio> sab: no changes were notified to the meaning, but lots of improvements in legibility and understandability
13:36:29 <giorgio> sab: shifting of dates; we need to look again at the timeline
13:36:39 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline
13:36:48 <giorgio> klaus: it would be good to get approval from rdwg on the new timeline
13:37:44 <giorgio> sab: overlap between e2r and text customization is by design, so that we can more papers around
13:38:00 <giorgio> s\more\move\
13:38:45 <giorgio> sab: time for reviewing is fairly compressed
13:40:16 <giorgio> klaus: the most critical aspects is reviewing time; but it looks like being viable given that thereare 10 days for 1000words papers.
13:41:10 <shawn> q+ to ask if that timeline means that there is no opportunity for papers submitted to e2r to move to tc4r (which is unlikely anyway)? SEPARATE POINT: chairs on each are on SC for the other. will they be expected to do reviews as well?
13:41:24 <shawn> ack me
13:41:25 <giorgio> klaus: will persuade reviewers to becompliant with the schedule
13:41:26 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask if that timeline means that there is no opportunity for papers submitted to e2r to move to tc4r (which is unlikely anyway)? SEPARATE POINT: chairs on each
13:41:26 <Zakim> ... are on SC for the other. will they be expected to do reviews as well?
13:42:14 <giorgio> shawn: is the timeline ok if the scientific committee finds that a paper needs to be moved between the two symposia?
13:43:08 <vivienne> Shawn, do you have any idea how many papers we should expect to review in that time frame?
13:43:19 <giorgio> shawn: T&C PC members should watch if there arepapers that should be moved
13:43:36 <giorgio> klaus: agreed and will make shawn aware of such a chance.
13:43:39 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
13:43:39 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
13:44:40 <giorgio> shawn: some people belong to both scientic groups and may be overloaded by revieweing for e2r and for t&c
13:45:36 <giorgio> giorgio corrects: shawn is concerned mayly for editors/chairs of T&C that will have to review fore2r
13:45:54 <giorgio> s\mayly\mainly\
13:45:59 <shawn> q+ to clarify I DO support coordination of topics!
13:46:10 <Klaus> q+
13:46:15 <shawn> ack Klaus
13:46:17 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
13:46:17 <Zakim> Klaus was not muted, Klaus
13:46:59 <giorgio> klaus: everything depends by the number of papers. 15-20 submissions to e2r will be manageable and we can avoid loading the chairs of T&C.
13:47:22 <giorgio> klaus: if more than 20 then we will need all the scientific members
13:47:23 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
13:47:23 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
13:47:25 <shawn> ack me
13:47:25 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to clarify I DO support coordination of topics!
13:47:40 <giorgio> shawn: I do support coordination of topics
13:47:42 <giorgio> q+
13:48:14 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
13:48:14 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
13:48:29 <giorgio> giorgio: if moe than 20 papers then I could beinvolved as a reviewer.
13:48:30 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
13:48:30 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
13:48:53 <shawn> ack me
13:48:58 <giorgio> q-
13:51:17 <shawn> zakim, mute me
13:51:17 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
13:52:03 <giorgio> saz: shawn suggested capitalization of easy-to-read
13:52:37 <giorgio> saz: lowercase should be used as an adjective; when capitalized it is a topic
13:52:59 <Klaus> agreed (-: 
13:53:01 <giorgio> saz: what is klaus' view?
13:53:14 <giorgio> saz: other questions?
13:53:41 <giorgio> saz: we received today comments from annika
13:54:28 <Klaus> tonight or tomorrow morning
13:54:30 <giorgio> saz: klaus, when will you be able to update?
13:54:44 <shawn> ack me
13:54:51 <giorgio> saz: shawn, any restrictions?
13:55:04 <shawn> ack me
13:55:28 <giorgio> shawn: I'm available
13:56:22 <giorgio> shawn: we need to think  (European perspective) whether morning or afternoon/eveningis better?
13:56:30 <giorgio> saz: early CET afternoon might be better
13:57:01 <giorgio> saz: klaus, tomorrow morning is ok?
13:57:18 <Klaus> o.k.
13:57:27 <shawn> s/eveningis better?/evening is better? and end of week OK, or better on Monday?/
13:57:41 <giorgio> (thanks shawn)
13:58:32 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Distribution_Lists
13:59:05 <Klaus> am ready for sending it out and also to other key interest groups
13:59:17 <shawn> [ Shawn has meeting at 7:00-8:00am Thursday, but will try to do announcements before or right after ]
13:59:20 <vivienne> yes, no problem
14:00:06 <shawn> [ for the record: Klaus & Yeliz did an AWESOME job of getting the tc4r call out riht away!]
14:00:22 <giorgio> saz: everybody in rdwg is welcome to forward the announcement in any relevant list. but please coordinate with the wiki page to avoid duplications.
14:00:29 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:00:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:00:36 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:00:36 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, giorgio
14:00:39 <shawn> s/riht away/right away/
14:00:41 <Klaus> sorry, have to go - THANKS!
14:00:46 <Zakim> -Klaus
14:00:51 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 1
14:00:51 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:00:53 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:00:53 <Zakim> 3. Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)  [from shadi]
14:00:55 <giorgio> ok
14:01:16 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:01:16 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from shadi]
14:01:29 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/News/2012#entry-9551
14:01:39 <giorgio> saz: good news about the 1st publicstion of rdwg being out
14:01:51 <giorgio> s/publicstion/publication/
14:02:21 <markel> :-)
14:02:24 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2012JulSep/0309.html
14:02:29 <giorgio> saz: it took longer than anticipated. Thanks to the editor
14:02:37 <giorgio> s/editor/editors/
14:03:19 <giorgio> saz: we got some comments, and editors are asked to collect these comments and relay them back to the group for discussion
14:03:42 <giorgio> saz: questions?
14:03:44 <markel> q+
14:04:05 <giorgio> markel: thanks for publishing and releasing the note.
14:04:12 <giorgio> yes, I'm very happy!
14:04:38 <giorgio> markel: I read some of the comments, and in the following weeks we will be working on that
14:05:40 <giorgio> saz: simon will have to monitor the timeline so that in the gaps we can discuss these things, as well as the draft of the mobile symposium
14:06:02 <giorgio> markel: once the deadline for comments is over, do we have some fixed deadlin to respond?
14:06:25 <giorgio> saz: any comments that come after the deadline should not be addressed.
14:06:55 <giorgio> saz: for responding to legitimate comments we have three months to close the publication.
14:07:11 <giorgio> saz: it's a good practice to acknowledge the comment asap.
14:07:40 <giorgio> saz: maybe by Dec or Jan we should get back all the comments and thell people how we addressed to each comment.
14:07:49 <giorgio> s/thell/tell/
14:08:19 <giorgio> saz: it is important to give n opportunity to the commenter to view how we addressed the comment before the final publication
14:08:32 <giorgio> s/ n/ an/
14:10:20 <shawn> q+ 
14:10:21 <giorgio> saz: I suggest the editors to be in close touch with simon
14:10:26 <giorgio> saz: other comments?
14:10:29 <markel> q-
14:10:30 <shawn> ack m
14:10:35 <shawn> ack me
14:10:47 <shawn> zakim, un mute me
14:10:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'un mute me', shawn
14:10:48 <giorgio> saz: people from rdwg arewelcome to review thedrft.
14:10:50 <shawn> zakim, unmute me
14:10:50 <Zakim> Shawn was not muted, shawn
14:11:02 <giorgio> s/arewelcome/ are welcome/
14:11:13 <giorgio> s/thedrft/the draft/
14:11:31 <markel> yes that sounds sensible
14:11:41 <giorgio> shawn: suggests that editors process the comments and bring to the group the digested solution.
14:11:50 <giorgio> I agree with shawn
14:12:21 <giorgio> saz: editors should decide what is worth to bring to the group
14:12:27 <giorgio> +1
14:13:03 <giorgio> markel: some comments are sensible. other ones are like "why did you not addressed X or y?"
14:13:23 <giorgio> markel: we need to put a boundary on possiblechanges, but we as editors will try to decide that
14:14:10 <giorgio> saz: editors should at least bring the group attention to some of the comments
14:14:20 <giorgio> saz: please do a preprocessing and filter them
14:14:37 <giorgio> saz: most comments do not need discussion
14:14:57 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:14:57 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Next Topic Discussions (10m)" taken up [from all]
14:15:15 <shadi> agenda?
14:16:13 <giorgio> saz: item 4 of agenda is a reminder. please look at the wiki and add topics or emend existing ones explaining why it is important. So that you get traction.
14:17:21 <giorgio> saz: and also consider if there could be editors willing to do the work
14:17:31 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:17:31 <Zakim> agendum 5. "CfP Simplified Page Format (15m)" taken up [from peter]
14:17:59 <vivienne> sorry, no idea
14:18:01 <giorgio> saz: not sure what it measn and peter is not with us. anybody familiar with this topic?
14:18:09 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:18:09 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, giorgio
14:18:28 <giorgio> zakim, close item 5
14:18:28 <Zakim> agendum 5, CfP Simplified Page Format (15m), closed
14:18:29 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:18:29 <Zakim> 6. New Symposium Web Page Designs (5m)  [from shawn via shadi]
14:19:12 <giorgio> zakim, take up next item
14:19:12 <Zakim> agendum 6. "New Symposium Web Page Designs (5m) " taken up [from shawn]
14:19:22 <shawn> discussion page: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/RD_Symposia_Design
14:19:34 <shawn> final draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/home.html
14:20:16 <giorgio> saz: the overall esign was accepted by the group, and it looks like being liked as well. thank you shawn.
14:21:12 <giorgio> shawn: there might be small bugs here and there
14:21:27 <giorgio> saz: we will incorporate this layout for all our symposia.
14:22:16 <giorgio> shawn: what is the optimal date for putting this layout live?
14:22:57 <giorgio> shawn: my concern is for people who see first one layout and subsequently thenew one, and might be confused. When shall we switch over?
14:23:08 <giorgio> q+
14:24:25 <giorgio> I said that I don't think it is a big issue.
14:24:28 <giorgio> asap
14:24:40 <markel> asap too, it does not hurt
14:24:45 <giorgio> shanw: we shall we do the swittch over?
14:24:58 <vivienne> shawn, is http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/home.html the final design?  I see some colour and link issues here.
14:25:13 <giorgio> s/shanw: we shall we do the swittch over?/shawn: when shall we do the switch over?/
14:25:25 <giorgio> saz: what do other people think?
14:25:34 <markel> it's inevitable to have people surprised, we cannot help it
14:25:43 <giorgio> saz: let's wait to complete it and then decide
14:25:44 <markel> surprised=confused
14:26:06 <vivienne> zakim, unmute me
14:26:06 <Zakim> vivienne should no longer be muted
14:26:54 <giorgio> vivienne: hovering on a link the colors change very little
14:28:06 <giorgio> shawn: is that so important?
14:28:23 <giorgio> q+
14:28:53 <giorgio> shawn: visited vs unvisited should be rendered differently. But hovering is not such an issue.
14:29:40 <giorgio> vivienne: 2nd question: you are using ??? font (I did not understood the words)
14:29:57 <shadi> s/???/serif
14:31:32 <shawn> giorgio: agree with Shawn. Tabe focus is good. Vivienne is talking about hovering effect. Don't think need to make it more prominenet.
14:32:19 <shawn> s/Tabe focus is good./Tab focus is good./
14:32:34 <giorgio> saz: vivienne please send your suggestions to shawn and CC to the group
14:32:53 <giorgio> saz: we need to close the call
14:33:20 <markel> bye!!
14:33:20 <giorgio> saz: next time we will try a diffeereent teleconf tool!
14:33:26 <vivienne> bye now
14:33:27 <giorgio> bye
14:33:29 <vivienne> vivienne has left #rd
14:33:29 <markel> markel has left #rd
14:33:31 <annika> bye
14:33:33 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:33:34 <Zakim> -giorgio
14:33:35 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:33:37 <Zakim> -Yehya
14:33:39 <Zakim> -annika
14:33:39 <Zakim> -vivienne
14:33:42 <Zakim> -Justin_
14:33:43 <Zakim> -markel
14:33:45 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:33:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Klaus, Shadi, Justin_, vivienne, markel, Shawn, annika, Yehya, giorgio
14:34:08 <shawn> shawn has left #rd
14:48:15 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:48:15 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:48:15 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:48:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:48:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/05-rd-minutes.html trackbot
14:48:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:48:24 <RRSAgent> I see no action items