13:56:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:56:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-sparql-irc
13:56:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:56:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:56:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:07 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:07 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2012
13:56:16 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
13:56:16 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AxelPolleres
13:56:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, LeeF, MacTed, cbuilara, AndyS, SteveH, pgearon_, pgearon, trackbot, sandro, ericP, ya, kasei
13:56:44 <AxelPolleres> Agenda:http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-09-04
13:57:01 <AndyS> zakim unhappy
13:58:27 <AndyS> zakim is not answering the phone
13:58:33 <sandro> Wow.    "We're sorry, due to telephone company facility trouble, your call cannot be completed".   Are others getting that?
13:59:00 <AxelPolleres> hmmm, I think I am in the phone.
13:59:06 <AndyS> I just get ringing, then eventually silence - ringtones do nothing. 
13:59:12 <AxelPolleres> but noone else I could hear :-)
13:59:15 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:59:15 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AndyS
13:59:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, LeeF, MacTed, cbuilara, AndyS, SteveH, pgearon_, pgearon, trackbot, sandro, ericP, ya, kasei
13:59:18 <cbuilara> same here
13:59:19 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
13:59:33 <cbuilara> I hear the ringing but nothing else
13:59:43 <AxelPolleres> I hardly dare to hang up and redail...
13:59:52 <AndyS> Axel - you are not on the phone according to zakim. 
14:00:41 <AxelPolleres> right, but I dialed in and got the usual "you are the first participant in this call"
14:00:50 <AndyS> sandro - is there a W3C  services status page?  (I can't reach the reset button from here!)
14:01:17 <AxelPolleres> hmmm, trying to re-dial now, I got a busy sign.
14:01:29 <SteveH> I get nothing at all
14:02:12 <AxelPolleres> hmmmm, should we try to have a conf. on IRC only?
14:02:13 <pgearon_> I'm not having any success in dialing either
14:02:37 <AndyS> trying #sysreq ...
14:02:41 <bglimm> I also can't dial in
14:02:46 <pgearon> oops, wrong console. I'll log out there
14:02:49 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll: start on chat only?
14:02:52 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:02:59 <sandro> Zakim is down.      They're working on it.  
14:03:04 <cbuilara> +1
14:03:09 <AxelPolleres> (makes scribing easy at least)
14:03:09 <bglimm> poor Zakim
14:03:20 <bglimm> +1
14:03:21 <AndyS> IRC only.
14:03:36 <AxelPolleres> ok, let's start
14:03:51 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-09-04 
14:03:59 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin 
14:04:07 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-08-21
14:04:10 <AxelPolleres> any support?
14:04:25 <AndyS> +1
14:04:44 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-08-21
14:04:48 <AxelPolleres> (reading no objections)
14:04:58 <AxelPolleres> oh my...
14:05:04 <AxelPolleres> now Zakim left as well.
14:05:22 <AxelPolleres> Sandro, how are the chances that the chatlog keeps with us? (rrsagent is still here)
14:05:37 <kasei> i just got through on the phone.
14:05:48 <AxelPolleres> ok, let's all try to re-dial then
14:05:52 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
14:05:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:05:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:05:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:05:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
14:05:57 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:05:58 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2012
14:06:29 <AxelPolleres> ok, Zakim ,seems back
14:07:14 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:14 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AxelPolleres
14:07:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see bglimm, RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, LeeF, MacTed, cbuilara, AndyS, SteveH, pgearon, trackbot, sandro, ericP, ya, kasei
14:07:26 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:07:26 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I don't know what conference this is
14:07:39 <bglimm> Zakim, this is SPARQL
14:07:39 <Zakim> ok, bglimm; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
14:07:45 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:07:45 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:07:53 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see +43.12.aaaa
14:07:54 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see +43.12.aaaa
14:07:57 <kasei> hmmm... i got dropped silently. redialing.
14:08:00 <cbuilara> zakim, ??aaaa is me
14:08:00 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named '??aaaa'
14:08:07 <cbuilara> zakim, .aaaa is me
14:08:07 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named '.aaaa'
14:08:16 <cbuilara> zakim, aaaa is me
14:08:16 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:08:20 <AxelPolleres> maybe we just continue on chat until it stabilizes
14:08:21 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
14:08:21 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
14:08:32 <AxelPolleres> any support for continuing on chat?
14:08:45 <cbuilara> +1
14:08:50 <AndyS> +1 to chart only for a while until it settles down
14:08:55 <AndyS> +1 to chat only for a while until it settles down
14:09:04 <bglimm> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:09:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara
14:09:17 <AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-09-11 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST 
14:09:19 <cbuilara> it wasn't me
14:09:22 <kasei> weird. bglimm, axel, and I are on a phantom call.
14:09:28 <AxelPolleres> @Andy... any news from RDF WG liaison ?
14:10:04 <AndyS> No news - RDF-WG meeting this week - restart normal schedule after the summer
14:10:05 <AxelPolleres> paul also on the call now
14:10:17 <AxelPolleres> ok
14:10:20 <sandro> Zakim, this is sparql
14:10:31 <AxelPolleres> topic: test corrections
14:10:46 <Zakim> sparql matches both SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM and SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM, sandro
14:10:46 <AxelPolleres> query/update tests needing corrections as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0153.html
14:10:59 <AxelPolleres> ... these test cases are in relation to the BIND changes, right?
14:11:13 <AxelPolleres> let's have a look at the mail
14:11:25 <AndyS> some are , some are corrections (the update ones)
14:11:47 <AxelPolleres> Can you elabortate whioch cases are affected by http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0135 and how?
14:12:03 <AndyS> Update ones are just plain wrong as everyone seems to agree. Not sure how they sneaked in.
14:12:15 <AxelPolleres> I see:
14:12:18 <AxelPolleres> www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest.ttl#dawg-delete-using-02
14:12:20 <AxelPolleres> and 
14:12:22 <AxelPolleres> www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest.ttl#dawg-delete-using-06
14:12:41 <AndyS> Guess - greg and I made the same conceptual bug handling USING
14:13:27 <AndyS> I have not changed the tests as they are marked approved.  Maybe assign actions to revise today - reapprove next week.
14:13:59 <AxelPolleres> so the proposal is to disapprove www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest.ttl#dawg-delete-using-02 + 06 yes?
14:14:08 <pgearon> AndyS - I am
14:14:24 <AxelPolleres> on the phone: axel, birte, greg, andy, anyone else?
14:14:41 <cbuilara> redialing
14:15:13 <AndyS> I can take an action to do these (and the BIND/scope ones).
14:15:19 <AxelPolleres> anybody volunteering to look into whether www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest.ttl#dawg-delete-using-02 +06 can be repaired? (for the moment they are marked as unapproved, yes?)
14:15:42 <AxelPolleres> thanks andy (for the BIND-scope tests)!
14:15:49 <AxelPolleres> any volunteer for the delete tests?
14:16:01 <AndyS> They are all marked approved currently - see manifests
14:16:06 <AndyS> I'll do all 4.
14:16:57 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Andy to unapprove test cases as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0153.html and attempt to fix them until next telco
14:16:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-675 - Unapprove test cases as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0153.html and attempt to fix them until next telco [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-09-11].
14:17:07 <AxelPolleres> thanks, andy!
14:17:22 <AxelPolleres> topic: Comments 
14:17:44 <AxelPolleres> goal for today is to - ideally - close all open comments on rec track docs
14:18:18 <AxelPolleres> we have 7 marked open, as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0156.html
14:18:41 <AxelPolleres> let's look them through on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:19:11 <AxelPolleres> draft for HK-4+JC-6 is here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:HK-5
14:19:21 <AxelPolleres> ok to send? (needs one more approval)
14:19:51 <AndyS> HK-4 (BIND) -- drafted, has one +1 : might be good for WG to formally accept the changes.
14:20:10 <AxelPolleres> this is the joint response to the to HK-4 and JC-6, yes?
14:20:21 <AndyS> Yes - it's the same comment.
14:20:21 <kasei> +1 on HK-5
14:20:33 <LeeF> I'm working on RC-2 response while semi-monitoring IRC, FYI
14:20:47 <AndyS> (s/HK-4/HK-5/g !!!)
14:21:01 <AxelPolleres> so, http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:HK-5  ok to send from my side, then.
14:21:08 <bglimm> `1
14:21:11 <bglimm> +1
14:21:21 <AxelPolleres> Andy, will you send it off?
14:21:23 <AndyS> Ack - will send.
14:21:29 <AxelPolleres> next one is BB-1
14:21:42 <AxelPolleres> draft here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:BB-1
14:22:11 <AndyS> +1 to send response
14:22:15 <AxelPolleres> one more?
14:23:16 <AxelPolleres> all, please feel free to read BB-1 now and (hopefully we'll get another +1 ;-))
14:24:25 <bglimm> Shouldn't the last example have a FROM NAMED <http://ex.com#g1>?
14:24:34 <AxelPolleres> ok steve, pls don't forget to ping re:DBeckett-1 for an ack as discussed in mail offline
14:24:46 <AxelPolleres> bglimm, just a second...
14:25:46 <AxelPolleres> ... well, no, this is assuming that g1 is in the default dataset (probably I should say that)
14:26:20 <bglimm> Yes, saying that might help
14:26:22 <cbuilara> +1
14:26:38 <cbuilara> (I read it quickly and it seems ok to me)
14:26:41 <bglimm> other than that +1
14:26:59 <AxelPolleres> ok, look here:
14:27:07 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/index.php?title=CommentResponse%3ABB-1&diff=4915&oldid=4910
14:27:31 <AxelPolleres> waiting for ack from Birte...
14:27:51 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to send off response to BB-1
14:27:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-676 - Send off response to BB-1 [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-09-11].
14:28:11 <AxelPolleres> sandro, are you here?
14:28:35 <bglimm> yes, my ack was +1 modulo the addition of the small comment you mentioned
14:28:45 <AxelPolleres> done, birte, thanks
14:29:45 <AxelPolleres> I pinged sandro offline on the status of JL-4
14:30:06 <bglimm> ok
14:31:13 <AxelPolleres> lee, how's RC-2 doing?
14:32:16 <sandro> (I moved LJ-4 along, but it's not resolved yet.)
14:32:28 <AxelPolleres> chime sent regrets for today, I pinged him on mail for his open comments.
14:32:42 <AxelPolleres> sandro, did you contact him offline?
14:33:12 <AxelPolleres> ah, sorry, no more open comments from chime.
14:33:27 <AxelPolleres> yes, we have all open comments through, I think
14:33:33 <AxelPolleres> topic: actions
14:34:33 <sandro> AxelPolleres, no, I kept the comments list cc'd
14:34:47 <sandro> but the w3c network is messed up this morning.
14:34:54 <AxelPolleres> action-674 continued
14:34:55 <AndyS> (comments JC-4, JC-5 can be marked done then?)
14:35:39 <AxelPolleres> Andy, ah ,right, that was what I had contacted Chime for on email.
14:35:46 <AndyS> Ack
14:35:53 <AxelPolleres> he had promised to follow up in the call two weeks ago.
14:36:01 <AxelPolleres> so, let's keep them open
14:36:19 <LeeF> RC-2 is drafted
14:36:23 <AxelPolleres> sandro, ok, so we keep JL-4 open atm.
14:36:26 <LeeF> but Greg needs to ask Andy something
14:36:37 <AxelPolleres> lee., can you paste the link?
14:36:53 <AndyS> greg - Q?
14:37:55 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RC-2
14:38:38 <AxelPolleres> +1 to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RC-2
14:38:45 <AxelPolleres> anybody else?
14:39:05 <kasei> +1
14:39:06 <AxelPolleres> (to support http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RC-2, I mean)
14:39:22 <bglimm> +1
14:39:24 <AxelPolleres> fine, leef, ok to send off RC-2, pls ack
14:39:39 <AxelPolleres> back to actions...
14:40:06 <AxelPolleres> AndyS, action-673 can be closed, right?
14:40:54 <kasei> actions 661, 662, and 664 can be closed.
14:41:03 <AndyS> yes - close it
14:41:12 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-673
14:41:12 <trackbot> ACTION-673 Fix the LC3 spec as per the proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0123.html closed
14:41:17 <AndyS> close ACTION-673
14:41:17 <trackbot> ACTION-673 Fix the LC3 spec as per the proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0123.html closed
14:41:26 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-661
14:41:26 <trackbot> ACTION-661 Confirm Andy's change to the grammar, and run the tests closed
14:41:45 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-662
14:41:45 <trackbot> ACTION-662 Record unapprovals closed
14:41:56 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-664
14:41:56 <trackbot> ACTION-664 Mark the Sd tests as approved closed
14:42:18 <AxelPolleres> carlos, you sent a mail on ACTION-672, right?
14:42:33 <cbuilara> yes, I will re send it
14:42:43 <cbuilara> as for closing ACTION-672
14:42:58 <AxelPolleres> sandro, ACTION-670 can be closed, or no? (think I remember I saw the mail) ... any news from RIF?
14:44:07 <AxelPolleres> discussion of ACTION-672, cf. thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0164.html
14:44:18 <AxelPolleres> ACTION-672 cf. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0164.html
14:44:33 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-672
14:44:33 <trackbot> ACTION-672 look over protocol test cases for completeness closed
14:45:34 <AxelPolleres> let us discuss this next time, along with going through all docs - ideally voting for re-publications as PR/CR
14:45:49 <LeeF> OK, I'll send RC-2 as is
14:45:59 <AxelPolleres> great!
14:47:37 <AxelPolleres> www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open
14:48:04 <bglimm> I just work on my action to reach out to implementers by writing to Kendall...
14:48:31 <AxelPolleres> greg, isn't http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/631 to be closed as well?
14:48:49 <AxelPolleres> birte, any news regarding implementations? 
14:49:18 <kasei> AxelPolleres, 631 is still in progress. so it could be closed, but I'd just as soon see it left open until we finish that work.
14:49:36 <kasei> since I haven't addressed all of Andy's feedback on those tests yet.
14:49:44 <AxelPolleres> birte, given also that we don't have feedback on RIF entailment implementaitons yet, I guess we will progress to CR rather than PR with Entailment, let's see what we have next week.
14:49:49 <AxelPolleres> gre, ok, thanks.
14:50:13 <bglimm> Jeff Pan (and his guys) and Michael Schneider are currently implementing 
14:50:21 <bglimm> Yes, definitely CR
14:50:29 <AxelPolleres> carlos, I think ACTION-643 can be closed
14:50:33 <AxelPolleres> right?
14:50:51 <cbuilara> yes
14:50:52 <bglimm> I'm also working on getting test reports out for HermiT and the OWL DS regime
14:51:01 <cbuilara> I sent an email while ago, I'm looking for it
14:51:04 <AxelPolleres> IIRC, paul mentioned that the review was processed already... carlos, do you have the link to the review mail at hand?
14:52:08 <AxelPolleres> please paste the link (would like to update to_pr page and the ACTION accordingly, before I mark it closed)
14:52:13 <cbuilara> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JulSep/0065.html
14:53:58 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-643
14:53:59 <trackbot> ACTION-643 Review update closed
14:54:38 <AxelPolleres> I think that's mostly all we can do for today.
14:54:51 <AxelPolleres> AOB?
14:56:43 <AxelPolleres> next time, we should have all OPEN comments replied and ideally ack'ed, I will follow up individually with the responsible people to answer. goal for next time is to run through all docs and vote for publication as PR or CR, depending whether we are happy with the implementation status. we should also discuss the protocol test completeness check that Carlos did.
14:57:05 <AxelPolleres> hope all agree with that plan, anything more for next time?
14:57:20 <bglimm> I won't be able to join next week
14:57:44 <bglimm> I can write some status email before the telco
14:58:08 <AxelPolleres> birte, please update us on anything entailment-relevant beforehand and - ideally - let us know your votes to publish per document per mail 
14:58:12 <AxelPolleres> thanks
14:58:20 <bglimm> will do
14:58:23 <AxelPolleres> summary: next time, we should have all OPEN comments replied and ideally ack'ed, I will follow up individually with the responsible people to answer. goal for next time is to run through all docs and vote for publication as PR or CR, depending whether we are happy with the implementation status. we should also discuss the protocol test completeness check that Carlos did.
14:58:29 <AxelPolleres> thanks all, adjourned.
14:58:38 <bglimm> bglimm has left #sparql
14:58:58 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
15:03:37 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #sparql
15:10:42 <kasei> so I think we've come to agreement on adding non-normative text at the start of the examples section.
15:10:54 <kasei> oops :)
15:11:01 <kasei> LeeF: in-channel now.
15:13:18 <LeeF> Great, that works for me
15:17:22 <AndyS> It's just avoiding normative sections else we need to wordsmith the messages.  And then it gets trick if some system wants to do better than default. "Dear Paul, there is a syntax error in your query."
17:24:09 <LeeF> ok
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