07:58:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
07:58:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/03-egov-irc
07:59:01 <PhilA2> zakim, code?
07:59:01 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA2, I don't know what conference this is
07:59:07 <PhilA2> zakim, this is egov
07:59:07 <Zakim> ok, PhilA2; that matches T&S_EGOV(Eurasian)4:00AM
07:59:10 <PhilA2> zakim, code?
07:59:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA2
07:59:30 <Zakim> +??P4
07:59:43 <Zakim> +??P5
07:59:45 <Laurence> Laurence has joined #egov
07:59:47 <PhilA2> zakim, ??P5 is me
07:59:47 <Zakim> +PhilA2; got it
08:00:14 <agipap> agipap has joined #egov
08:00:18 <PhilA2> q+
08:00:24 <PhilA2> q?
08:00:29 <PhilA2> q?
08:00:35 <PhilA2> q+ agipap
08:00:41 <PhilA2> q?
08:00:59 <PhilA2> q clear
08:01:04 <PhilA2> ack me
08:01:07 <PhilA2> ack agipap
08:01:09 <PhilA2> q?
08:01:40 <NigGreenaway> NigGreenaway has joined #egov
08:01:46 <PhilA2> zakim, ??P4 is Laurence
08:01:46 <Zakim> +Laurence; got it
08:01:48 <Zakim> +niggreenaway
08:02:00 <PhilA2> zakim, who is here?
08:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vicki, ??P3, Laurence, PhilA2, niggreenaway
08:02:00 <lei> Hi, how may i speak here?
08:02:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see NigGreenaway, agipap, Laurence, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA2, Tomasz, HadleyBeeman, lei, Jared, cgueret, thschee, trackbot, sandro, edsu
08:02:34 <lei> how may I log into the phone?
08:02:47 <PhilA2> lei, you need to dial in - see http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page
08:03:03 <Jared> I'm on Skype too.
08:03:38 <lei> so use my local phone to dial in? or skype?
08:03:43 <HadleyBeeman> morning, all
08:03:52 <Tomasz> zakim ?? is me
08:04:04 <Tomasz> zakim, ?? P3 is me
08:04:04 <Zakim> I don't understand '?? P3 is me', Tomasz
08:04:42 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, what's the code?
08:04:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), HadleyBeeman
08:04:53 <Tomasz> zakim, ??P3 is me
08:04:53 <Zakim> +Tomasz; got it
08:05:01 <lei> hi, tomasz, do i need to dial in with my phone in Shanghai? I do not have international service here
08:05:16 <Tomasz> Lei, please use your skype
08:05:18 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman
08:05:25 <PhilA2> zakim, who is here?
08:05:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vicki, Tomasz, Laurence, PhilA2, niggreenaway, HadleyBeeman
08:05:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see NigGreenaway, agipap, Laurence, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA2, Tomasz, HadleyBeeman, lei, Jared, cgueret, thschee, trackbot, sandro, edsu
08:06:05 <PhilA2> present+ Jared
08:06:15 <lei> ok
08:06:56 <PhilA2> chair: Tomasz
08:07:10 <PhilA2> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2012Aug/0040.html
08:07:16 <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
08:07:32 <Zakim> + +9689288aaaa
08:08:48 <PhilA2> Tomasz gets the meeting set up
08:09:14 <Noor> Noor has joined #egov
08:10:22 <Zakim> - +9689288aaaa
08:10:37 <PhilA2> Jared introduces himself - Dept of Internal Affairs in NZ
08:10:47 <agipap> not yet fixing some echo problems
08:10:49 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: From Linked Gov and UK Gov Tach Strategy Board
08:11:54 <PhilA2> Nig Greenway, work with Fujitsu in various capacities, including through OASIS
08:13:39 <PhilA2> Topic: Jared Gulian, Office of the Government CIO, New Zealand
08:13:54 <PhilA2> Slides at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/7/7f/W3C_-_NZ_Govt_Social_Media_Guidance.pdf
08:14:23 <PhilA2> Jared: Our guidelines on use of social media have been well received
08:14:48 <PhilA2> ... slide 2 - We deal with all the usual things - standards, gov Web sites etc.
08:14:58 <PhilA2> ... we deal with all NZ gov guidance
08:15:28 <HadleyBeeman> which guidance from the UK?
08:15:30 <PhilA2> ... asked to look at social media. Created high level and detailed versions. Built on UK advice
08:15:31 <HadleyBeeman> (or which version?)
08:16:06 <PhilA2> Jared: Situation in NZ is similar to other countries. Lots of people dealing with companies etc. via SM so expectations on gov increasing
08:16:07 <Tomasz> q?
08:16:18 <HadleyBeeman> q+
08:17:11 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 5 - view is that SM is like a new puppy. Great on day 1 but a puppy is for life, not just for Christmas
08:17:19 <Tomasz> q+
08:17:53 <PhilA2> Jared: We looked elsewhere for guidance - we had to have guidance in place within a month - so that was tight
08:18:06 <PhilA2> ack HadleyBeeman
08:18:14 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Which version of the guidance from the UK you used?
08:18:22 <Zakim> +??P8
08:18:48 <PhilA2> Jared: I'll get to that. It was from the Cabinet Office and COI, Engaging through Social Media. But that had come out of a larger document (mentions some names)
08:18:53 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: When?
08:19:00 <agipap> zakim, ??P8 is me
08:19:00 <Zakim> +agipap; got it
08:19:01 <PhilA2> Jared: 12 months ago
08:19:10 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: We have an entirely new version now :-)
08:19:25 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 7
08:19:44 <PhilA2> Jared: Different uses of SM
08:19:57 <PhilA2> q- Tomasz
08:20:09 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 8 - impressed by UK work
08:20:41 <HadleyBeeman> :)
08:20:48 <PhilA2> ... we spoke to the authors and used that as a first draft (Ross fergusion: Rip it as you wish :-) )
08:21:01 <PhilA2> Jared: We made changes (it was then 2 years old)
08:21:22 <PhilA2> ... we had a lot of folk look at it from different perspectives...
08:21:30 <PhilA2> ... slide 10 - we did 2 consultations
08:21:38 <PhilA2> ... first was gov Web community
08:21:45 <PhilA2> ... second was with Comms Teams
08:22:16 <PhilA2> ... slide 11 - we had a lot of feedback from lots of agencies
08:23:07 <PhilA2> ... slide 13 Gartner were very complimentary (we pointed to UK origins)
08:23:13 <Tomasz> q?
08:23:35 <PhilA2> Jared: We split it in 2 as the UK doc was one big one. We found that useful
08:24:09 <PhilA2> ... slide 14 Trade me is NZ's eBay - incredibly popular
08:24:20 <agipap> q+
08:25:07 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 15, National Library has popular Twitter stream. They tweet links to interesting stuff in the archive. Lots of retweets
08:25:09 <Tomasz> q?
08:25:22 <PhilA2> ack agipap
08:25:38 <agipap> yes problem with mic
08:25:43 <agipap> so i mute it!
08:26:45 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 16 - the issue here was that no one knew what they did. Their FB presence was the (typical) brand promotion etc.
08:26:53 <Zakim> +??P9
08:27:03 <PhilA2> zakim, mute ??P9
08:27:03 <Zakim> ??P9 should now be muted
08:28:01 <agipap> nope - i'm ok with my mic muted
08:28:44 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 17, the historic places group couldn't get images of all their places. It's less busy now but was able to crowd source images without funding
08:28:49 <agipap> zakim, ??P8 is me
08:28:49 <Zakim> I already had ??P8 as agipap, agipap
08:29:24 <PhilA2> rrsagent, make logs public
08:29:48 <Tomasz> q?
08:30:11 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 19 - lessons. We started with something good from UK, and used that as the basis of a conversation that helped us create something that worked even better for NZ
08:30:25 <PhilA2> ... planning is important before jumping into social media
08:30:31 <PhilA2> ... comms and web teams equally important
08:31:27 <PhilA2> ... comme teams are used to broadcast media and so may not be familiar, tend to hold back. Web team tend to jump straight in. Need to be quick and well crafted messages => need both teams
08:31:55 <PhilA2> Jared: Slide 20 we did a study on the Ministry of Health FB page - gone very well
08:32:29 <PhilA2> Jared: ABle to look to Quantas to see what do do when SM goes wrong 
08:33:18 <PhilA2> Laurence: Did you say it was on the guides page? Can't find it?
08:33:20 <agipap> very nice presentation - quite clear - no questions :-)
08:33:29 <PhilA2> ... Ah, got it, under strategy and operation
08:34:00 <PhilA2> Laurence: Was the info about how to handle a mishap reassuring or did it scare people off?
08:34:30 <PhilA2> Jared: The #qantasluxury hashtag backfired as it was happening just as they had planes on the grounded
08:34:55 <PhilA2> ... people knew about that and so it was good that the risks were recognised and can be mitigated
08:35:27 <PhilA2> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:35:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/03-egov-minutes.html PhilA2
08:35:39 <PhilA2> Jared: It hasn't made everyone join SM, but it has made them think about it
08:35:52 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Do you have any stats about adoption across government?
08:36:16 <PhilA2> Jared: We can't keep up with demand for answers to questions. We've been going out to speak to other agencies about it
08:36:49 <HadleyBeeman> I guess that's a happy problem.  (A good sign)
08:36:55 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Do you incorporate feedback from non-gov?
08:36:58 <Tomasz> q?
08:37:02 <PhilA2> Jared: Yes, all sorts of people
08:37:08 <PhilA2> ... from private sector etc.
08:37:31 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Are the guidelines in step with legal aspects of disseminating government info online?
08:38:31 <PhilA2> Jared: We had a legal team give us a good bit of feedback (in the hands on toolbox) and there's quite a big section on things like copyright, legal party mentions etc., public records atc etc. Quite a bit of that
08:38:55 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Thanks Jared
08:39:18 <PhilA2> zakim, who is here?
08:39:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vicki, Tomasz, Laurence, PhilA2, niggreenaway, HadleyBeeman, agipap, ??P9 (muted)
08:39:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see Noor, NigGreenaway, agipap, Laurence, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA2, Tomasz, HadleyBeeman, lei, Jared, cgueret, trackbot, sandro, edsu
08:39:29 <PhilA2> zakim, unmute ??P9
08:39:29 <Zakim> ??P9 should no longer be muted
08:39:50 <PhilA2> Noor: Are you there?
08:40:33 <PhilA2> Topic: Government Use of Media in China: Incentives, Enablers and Barriers, Lei Zheng, Fudan University, China
08:40:54 <PhilA2> zakim, Lei is Lei Zheng
08:40:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Lei is Lei Zheng', PhilA2
08:41:19 <PhilA2> Slides http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/7/7e/Government_use_of_social_media_in_China(1).pdf
08:41:46 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 2, some background on how ZN gov is using social media
08:42:06 <PhilA2> ... not on Twitter and Facebook as these are blocked in China
08:42:13 <PhilA2> ... so we use Weibo
08:42:32 <PhilA2> ... 300,000,000 accounts - pretty popular :-)
08:43:17 <PhilA2> ... by end of 2011 (not 2012) 50K gov agencies (nat and regional) using microblogging
08:43:51 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 3. Want to use it as a way to release gov info. Before that they had government portals but these were not very effective
08:44:12 <Tomasz> Noor, are you there?
08:44:34 <PhilA2> ... also using microblogging to disseminate info in emergencies. Shanghai metro problem, get info out on SM - many people got that info quckly
08:45:07 <PhilA2> lei: Also use that system to receive info, understanding what citizens think about gov policy
08:45:53 <PhilA2> lei: The people's congress doesn't always reflect what people think. Emergence of Weibo challenges government
08:46:22 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 4
08:47:23 <PhilA2> lei: There are advantages to the CN government. They think the Eibo platform is mature and functions well
08:47:39 <PhilA2> ... smartphones important channel
08:48:12 <PhilA2> ... every 6 months, gov info shows that mobile usage of internet now greater than desktop
08:48:33 <PhilA2> ... i.e. that milestone was reached during 2012
08:49:02 <PhilA2> ... in the last 5 years, citizens' interest in politics has increased
08:49:13 <PhilA2> ... and this is attributed to SM
08:49:58 <Zakim> + +9689288aabb
08:50:18 <PhilA2> lei: So pressure from citizens has come through SM
08:51:18 <PhilA2> lei: Central gov pushing regional and local gov to use SM to engage with citizens
08:51:36 <PhilA2> lei: Central gov has power to require lower level governments to take this on
08:52:00 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 5 - external barriers
08:52:34 <PhilA2> ... even though we have 300M users, that's only 30% of the population. 70% aren't using it (and many of those are not online at all)
08:52:45 <PhilA2> ... so SM only reaches some people - the richer sections
08:53:02 <PhilA2> ... there were some hack attempts too
08:53:50 <PhilA2> ... lots of scandals happen in local government so trust is quite low. Many citizens are challenging and the gov is finding this hard to deal with
08:54:41 <PhilA2> lei: SM is still very new of course so there is a lack of policies/guidelines for how to handle it. Still exploring
08:55:37 <PhilA2> lei: Some gov officials worry that tech will be replaced. If we invest time and effort into SM, what happens if something new comes along, won't we have wasted our time and effort (tech changes fast)
08:55:57 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 6
08:56:22 <PhilA2> lei: There are lots of advantages. Gov owns a lot of society information (gov is very powerful)
08:56:27 <PhilA2> ... owns most info
08:56:40 <PhilA2> ... they have lots of info resources that they can draw on for SM
08:56:49 <Tomasz> q?
08:57:01 <PhilA2> ... gov is quite rich. Revenue is going up 20 - 30% per year
08:57:11 <PhilA2> ... so as long as we want to do it, we can
08:57:27 <PhilA2> PhilA2: (other gov look on in envy of course)
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08:58:27 <PhilA2> lei: Gov has lots of employees - can easily hire more people to take on the tasks
08:58:54 <PhilA2> lei: Over the recent decades, CN gov has been working on eGov. When SM came along, they already had a lot of infrastructure in place
08:58:58 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 7
08:59:20 <PhilA2> lei: First internal barrier - closed internal culture
08:59:44 <PhilA2> ... as gov isn't elected, they make decisions and then can enforce it. So being open is a challenge
08:59:53 <Tomasz> q?
09:00:13 <PhilA2> lei: closed culture is therefore a barrier
09:00:33 <PhilA2> lei: There's a diplomatic wall between gov and people
09:00:46 <PhilA2> lei: 2nd barrier - heirarchy/review
09:01:15 <PhilA2> ... culture of checking with managers and their managers to get approval
09:01:34 <PhilA2> ... can go through 3 or 4 levels of checking before they can respond to a citizen's request
09:01:57 <PhilA2> lei: Prob also is lack of experience, lack if guidelines
09:02:23 <PhilA2> ... lots of leaders don't see importance/relevance of SM. If they don't pay attention then the agency won't get the resources
09:02:44 <PhilA2> lei: lack of cross-agency cooperation
09:03:07 <PhilA2> lei: Wrapping up on page 8, there is a tension
09:03:34 <PhilA2> ... gov is a bureaucracy, vs. society which is moving towards a P2P network
09:04:15 <PhilA2> ... many citizens not satisfied with gov use of SM
09:04:28 <PhilA2> lei: Slide 9 Gov trying to slow down SM
09:04:54 <PhilA2> lei: Everything is controlled/censored. Comments can be removed easily
09:05:13 <PhilA2> lei: Citizens are changing the government
09:05:22 <thschee> thschee has joined #egov
09:05:39 <PhilA2> ... lots of push for gov to change
09:06:07 <PhilA2> PhilA2: I heard this morning that 10% of all Weibo messages are censored
09:07:07 <PhilA2> Laurence: RenRen is equiv of FB, Weibo is equiv of Twitter
09:08:04 <PhilA2> lei: If I post sometehing against the gov, I see it dispappear very quickly
09:08:12 <Tomasz> q?
09:08:27 <PhilA2> lei: Some people van get around the great firewall of China but it's hard
09:08:45 <PhilA2> ... you need to keep ahead of the censors if you want to do that
09:09:22 <PhilA2> Tomasz: You mentioned there is a lack of institutionalisation - so the guidelines of the type presented by Jared are not available?
09:09:45 <PhilA2> lei: I haven't seen any proper guidelines.
09:10:00 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Which agency would be in charge of standardisation?
09:10:36 <PhilA2> lei: They don't have one responsible for SM. Some agencies use the admin office to run the SM which reports to the Mayor etc. Others use the PR office, some the eGov office
09:10:47 <PhilA2> ... there is no fixed arrangement
09:10:59 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Thanks Lei
09:11:16 <PhilA2> Topic: Omani Government Experience with Social Media, Noor Ali Al-hinai, Information Technology Authority, Oman
09:11:36 <PhilA2> Slides http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/b/bb/Social_Media_Presentation.pdf
09:12:34 <PhilA2> Noor: Slide 3 shows Omani view of SM
09:12:47 <Tomasz> q?
09:13:03 <PhilA2> Noor: Directive says that social media should be included as a comm channel
09:13:38 <PhilA2> Noor: Slide 4 shows importance of SM for citizen engagement
09:14:17 <PhilA2> Noor: Describes an important/successful forum in which policies etc. are discussed
09:14:27 <PhilA2> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:14:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/03-egov-minutes.html PhilA2
09:14:53 <PhilA2> Noor: It's a private forum but has good interaction and is well known in Arabic region
09:15:06 <PhilA2> Noor: So we feel citizens are engaged with the gov
09:15:53 <Tomasz> q?
09:16:29 <PhilA2> Noor: We ran many workshops, training etc. Got very good response from gov entities
09:17:19 <PhilA2> Noor: Slide 7 - direct 1-1 communication
09:20:59 <PhilA2> Noor: slide 8 - problems include how to let citizens know about the channel? And to let them know that it's open 24/7?
09:21:25 <PhilA2> Noor: We need a common policy for all government departments
09:22:08 <PhilA2> Noor: We need to be aware of how to deal with different age respondents etc.
09:22:22 <PhilA2> ... how can we follow/keep up with tech developments?
09:22:31 <PhilA2> ... this is challenge
09:22:35 <PhilA2> ... as is security
09:23:16 <PhilA2> Noor: Slide 9 - self explanatory
09:23:47 <PhilA2> ... slide 10 - self-explanatory
09:25:34 <PhilA2> Noor: Slide 11 suggests more male than female users of SM. That's likely to be partly cultural but it's hard to get info
09:27:28 <PhilA2> Noor: Slide 13, users unware that FB/Twitter can convey real info as well as entertainment
09:27:42 <PhilA2> ... lack of trust in tech. Much more trust in trad media
09:29:29 <PhilA2> Noor: Slides 14 & 15 self explanatory
09:30:53 <Zakim> -niggreenaway
09:30:55 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Thanks Noor for the comprehensive presentation
09:31:35 <PhilA2> Tomasz: ICA is in charge of national ICT strategy, does that include SM?
09:32:02 <PhilA2> Noor: Actually King is setting up new department (scribe - not sure I got that right)
09:32:03 <Tomasz> q?
09:32:23 <Tomasz> close to finish
09:32:42 <PhilA2> Noor: Aim is to improve communication with citizens
09:33:10 <PhilA2> Noor: Anything like the guidelines that Jared presented?
09:33:18 <PhilA2> s/Noor/Tomasz/
09:33:28 <PhilA2> Noor: We're going to work on that, yes
09:33:39 <Jared> q?
09:33:43 <PhilA2> ... we don't have a national one yet
09:34:01 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Any more questions from anyone for anyone?
09:34:39 <PhilA2> Jared: A comment to Noor - our gov social media guidelines are free to use under a CC licence so feel free to take a look at them and, as we did, rip it as you wish
09:34:42 <PhilA2> Noor: Thank you
09:34:56 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Happy to see gov - gov coopoeration
09:35:14 <PhilA2> Tomasz: Thanks everyone - Jared, Noo, and Lei
09:35:23 <PhilA2> .. we'll have an open call for future topics
09:35:27 <agipap> bye everybody - nice conference, nice presentations  - thanks a lot!
09:35:33 <Zakim> - +9689288aabb
09:35:36 <Zakim> -PhilA2
09:35:39 <Zakim> -Laurence
09:35:49 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
09:35:51 <PhilA2> zakim, bye
09:35:51 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Vicki, PhilA2, Laurence, niggreenaway, Tomasz, HadleyBeeman, +9689288aaaa, agipap, +9689288aabb
09:35:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #egov
09:35:58 <PhilA2> rrageagent, generate minutes
09:36:06 <PhilA2> rrsagent, generate minutes
09:36:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/03-egov-minutes.html PhilA2
09:36:38 <Tomasz> Phil, thank you very much and sorry about scribing...
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