17:01:27 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 17:01:27 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-irc 17:01:29 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:01:29 Zakim has joined #tagmem 17:01:31 zakim, who is here? 17:01:31 sorry, noah, I don't know what conference this is 17:01:31 Zakim, this will be TAG 17:01:32 Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference 17:01:32 Date: 30 August 2012 17:01:32 On IRC I see RRSAgent, noah, Larry, timbl_, ht, darobin, timbl, trackbot, Yves, plinss_away 17:01:33 ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started 17:01:36 zakim, who is here? 17:01:38 On the phone I see Masinter, ??P7, Noah_Mendelsohn 17:01:40 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Aug/0046.html 17:01:44 On IRC I see RRSAgent, noah, Larry, timbl_, ht, darobin, timbl, trackbot, Yves, plinss_away 17:01:50 +Yves 17:02:00 Chair: Noah 17:02:18 jar has joined #tagmem 17:03:08 +Jonathan_Rees 17:04:26 Scribe: Yves 17:04:28 zakim, who is here? 17:04:28 On the phone I see Masinter, ht (muted), Noah_Mendelsohn, Yves, Jonathan_Rees 17:04:29 On IRC I see jar, Zakim, RRSAgent, noah, Larry, timbl_, ht, darobin, timbl, trackbot, Yves, plinss_away 17:04:55 Topic: approval of minutes 17:04:56 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/23-minutes 17:05:04 RESOLUTION: minutes approved 17:05:10 missing minutes for aug 2 17:05:17 next week, there will be no call 17:06:09 re: f2f, we should be all set, but we don't have an hotel list yet 17:06:58 Topic: Publishing and Linking 17:07:00 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/23-minutes 17:07:08 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html 17:08:27 Larry: the goal is to have something suitable to be published as a FPWD. There will be some nits 17:08:42 q+ to propose a New Orleans vote 17:08:48 FWIW: I think the changes to the Note on Silk come close enough to satisfying my concerns, thank you. 17:08:59 would be good to decide publication over email 17:09:31 ack next 17:09:32 ht, you wanted to propose a New Orleans vote 17:10:25 Noah: we can have an approval and leave editors fix what needs fixing, then wait a few days for negative reaction on the ML or else publish 17:11:00 -Masinter 17:11:08 Henry wrote: "Thanks for making the effort, and I'm content with where you ended up, 17:11:08 modulo a few low-level glitches which I'll signal offline." 17:11:13 We'll wait for Larry 17:11:20 phone died, lemme get another one 17:11:59 +Masinter 17:13:13 "Such sub-systems cannot exercise judgment, even if required to by governance." 17:13:15 comments from Noah: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Aug/0050.html 17:13:57 +TimBL 17:14:10 Larry: the crux is a web content/web page/web document distinction 17:14:17 Hi Tim. We are getting very close to voting to go to FPWD on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html 17:14:35 content is stuff (js, css, image, whatever), page is what you see, symbol is what allow the page to be seen 17:15:03 The state of discussion is that everyone's pretty happy, but Larry and Henry both feel that the terminology around Web Page, Web Content, and Web Document isn't entirely in good shape. 17:15:14 zakim, who is here? 17:15:14 On the phone I see ht, Noah_Mendelsohn, Yves, Jonathan_Rees, Masinter, TimBL 17:15:14 timbl_ has left #tagmem 17:15:16 On IRC I see jar, Zakim, RRSAgent, noah, Larry, timbl_, ht, darobin, timbl, trackbot, Yves, plinss_away 17:15:17 "I'll try and see if i can get away with just 'web content' and 'web page' 17:15:18 ht: if you think the 3-way distinction is difficult to make it work (I like it), you can use only web contant and web page 17:16:54 Noah: do you want more discussion, or is it OK to vote on publication now? 17:17:09 17:17:24 . RESOLUTION: Larry as editor will make revisions as he sees fit, there will be 3 days for objections, and then http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html will be published as a FPWD 17:18:05 RESOLUTION: Larry as editor will make revisions as he sees fit, there will be 3 days for objections, and then http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html will be published as a FPWD 17:18:40 RESOLUTION: Larry as editor will make revisions as he sees fit, there will be 3 days for objections, and then http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html will be published as a FPWD 17:19:12 Ack Thinh Nguyen? 17:19:40 Larry +1 17:19:48 "will ack Thinh, please suggest wording 17:20:18 ACTION-732? 17:20:18 ACTION-732 -- Larry Masinter to prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking -- due 2012-08-21 -- OPEN 17:20:18 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/732 17:20:39 ACTION-732 - DUE 2012-09-05 17:20:49 ACTION-732: DUE 2012-09-05 17:20:50 ACTION-732 prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking notes added 17:21:35 Topic: overdue actions 17:22:42 /me Noah: For the most part, such sub-systems 17:22:42 cannot exercise the kinds of judgment needed, even if required 17:22:42 to by governance. 17:23:58 ACTION-730? 17:23:58 ACTION-730 -- Jeni Tennison to working with Yves to publish FPWD on Fragids -- due 2012-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:23:58 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/730 17:24:27 topic: Pending Review Action Items 17:24:32 ACTION-730? 17:24:32 ACTION-730 -- Jeni Tennison to working with Yves to publish FPWD on Fragids -- due 2012-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:24:32 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/730 17:25:20 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-fragid-best-practices-20120726/ 17:25:35 close ACTION-730 17:25:35 ACTION-730 working with Yves to publish FPWD on Fragids closed 17:25:52 ACTION-543? 17:25:52 ACTION-543 -- Peter Linss to propose addition to Fragid draft to discuss sem-web use of fragids not grounded in media type -- due 2012-09-12 -- OPEN 17:25:52 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/543 17:26:04 ACTION-564? 17:26:04 ACTION-564 -- Henry Thompson to track fragid issues in 3023bis, report to TAG and/or communicate with 3023bis editors as appropriate -- due 2012-09-01 -- OPEN 17:26:04 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/564 17:26:41 ht: Larry were you in Vancouver? any mention of 3023bis? 17:26:42 Luckily, 564 is not due until tomorrow :-) 17:26:48 I 17:27:33 Larry: no mention of this during the last IETF meeting 17:28:12 ACTION-732 DUE 2012-09-05 17:28:12 ACTION-732 prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking due date now 2012-09-05 17:29:14 should XMLCore take it on? 17:29:20 Yves is the logical person to deliver from the TAG to the amagemet that Chris is being abandoned as unresposive 17:29:37 on bringing the document forward. 17:30:28 s/Yves is the logical person to deliver from the TAG to the amagemet that Chris is being abandoned as unresposive// 17:30:40 s/on bringing the document forward.// 17:30:43 ACTION-564? 17:30:43 ACTION-564 -- Henry Thompson to track fragid issues in 3023bis, report to TAG and/or communicate with 3023bis editors as appropriate -- due 2012-09-01 -- OPEN 17:30:43 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/564 17:31:03 ACTION-564 Due 2012-09-30 17:31:03 ACTION-564 Track fragid issues in 3023bis, report to TAG and/or communicate with 3023bis editors as appropriate due date now 2012-09-30 17:31:23 ACTION-635? 17:31:23 ACTION-635 -- Henry Thompson to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN 17:31:23 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/635 17:31:48 ACTION-635 Due 2012-09-11 17:31:48 ACTION-635 Update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates due date now 2012-09-11 17:33:16 ACTION-686? 17:33:16 ACTION-686 -- Robin Berjon to try to find who is in charge of the current browser content sniffing clustermess, and see if there is a way of moving out of the quagmire -- due 2012-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:33:16 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/686 17:33:40 topic: Overdue actions 17:34:31 Robin's comment in the action is: 17:34:31 The person in charge is Adam Barth and the document is pretty much final — I see little support for changing this. 17:34:31 Robin Berjon, 7 Jun 2012, 16:24:19 17:35:29 I was trying to talk people into turning off sniffing with HTTP 2.0 17:36:42 not listed in http://www.w3.org/2012/webapps/charter/Overview.html 17:36:50 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-mime-sniff-03 17:38:01 http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/ 17:38:03 I think Action 686 should be repoened 17:38:54 "https://github.com/abarth/websec/commits/master/drafts/sniff.html last edit Nov 2011 17:39:30 ACTION-686? 17:39:30 ACTION-686 -- Robin Berjon to try to find who is in charge of the current browser content sniffing clustermess, and see if there is a way of moving out of the quagmire -- due 2012-09-18 -- OPEN 17:39:30 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/686 17:39:33 "section 9 on 'fonts' is left 'todo' 17:39:53 Not sure whether Robin wants to pick this up, but at least it's open now. 17:40:02 If he doesn't, we'll have to find someone else to carry this forward. 17:40:06 http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/ 17:40:34 in a ML, Adam Barth said the document was now there ^ 17:41:10 When the document was in the IETF, I raised issues 17:41:18 http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7239&to=7240 17:41:29 none of the issues I raised in the IETF have been addressed 17:41:48 changing venue doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of responding to issues raised 17:42:04 (for the minutes: mimesniff is titled "MIME Sniffing Work in Progress — Last Update 25 November 2011") 17:42:26 HTML5 has a reference MIMESNIFF which resolves to http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/ 17:42:36 Seems like they'll have to finish it or change the reference. 17:42:41 What I suggested to PHilippe in Vancouver is a little more radical 17:43:40 html5 has things like sniffing charset 17:44:08 that mmay be put in a separate document as well (like put all the sniffing parts in separate document(s)) 17:45:52 ACTION-713? 17:45:52 ACTION-713 -- Robin Berjon to incorporate into Privacy document "There are concerns wrt protocols and privacy, there are concerns wrt APIs and privacy. We're working on APIs, IETF are working on protocols, we will collaborate and try to converge at least on terminology going forward" -- due 2012-06-19 -- OPEN 17:45:52 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/713 17:46:33 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html 17:46:44 Robin is the only one assigned 17:46:56 ACTION-713 Due 2012-09-13 17:46:56 ACTION-713 Incorporate into Privacy document "There are concerns wrt protocols and privacy, there are concerns wrt APIs and privacy. We're working on APIs, IETF are working on protocols, we will collaborate and try to converge at least on terminology going forward" due date now 2012-09-13 17:47:13 ACTION-715 Due 2012-09-13 17:47:13 ACTION-715 prepare draft FPWD of some patterns for privacy in APIs, to be reviewed by TAG and published due date now 2012-09-13 17:47:24 ACTION-685? 17:47:24 ACTION-685 -- Robin Berjon to create a product page proposing the Task Force on Web Security/Privileges/Trust/etc. -- due 2012-08-01 -- OPEN 17:47:24 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/685 17:48:26 In June Robin said: 17:48:27 This ought to be revisited once the SysApps WG is chartered — it may be that that is where all of this discussion will take place. 17:48:27 Robin Berjon, 8 Jun 2012, 08:59:19 17:48:43 Still in discussion? 17:49:02 NM: Yves, do you know about Sysaps? 17:49:06 Yves: Not sure 17:49:16 LM: Think it's still under discussion 17:50:00 Due to August holidays we have extended this review period to 10 September. 17:50:00 17:50:00 Ian Jacobs, Head of W3C Communications 17:50:00 17:50:02 ACTION-685 Due 2012-09-30 17:50:03 ACTION-685 create a product page proposing the Task Force on Web Security/Privileges/Trust/etc. due date now 2012-09-30 17:50:23 ACTION-700 Due 2012-11-30 17:50:23 ACTION-700 Send note to tag@ that he will send later to the AB (as himself) proposing the changes to electoral proceedings due date now 2012-11-30 17:50:33 ACTION-659? 17:50:33 ACTION-659 -- Yves Lafon to track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY -- due 2012-08-05 -- OPEN 17:50:33 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/659 17:50:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sysapps/2012Aug/0001.html 17:51:24 YL: I think Larry learned more than I, having been at IETF Vancouver. 17:51:54 Larry: I was in Vancouver, and I also discussed with mnot recently 17:52:11 Larry: I can give a report, but I don't see things TAG would work on 17:52:28 NM: I'm asking if this is a good use of F2F time? 17:52:35 we could invite Mark or someone else to talk about progress 17:53:10 LM: Maybe 30 mins max on SPDY HTTP 2.0 at F2F 17:53:11 i wouldn't recommend more than 30 minutes for an update & discussion 17:53:29 ACTION-659? 17:53:29 ACTION-659 -- Yves Lafon to track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY -- due 2012-08-05 -- OPEN 17:53:29 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/659 17:53:53 ACTION-659 Due 2013-01-01 17:53:53 ACTION-659 Track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY due date now 2013-01-01 17:54:20 ACTION: Larry to prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F - Due 2012-9-28 17:54:20 Created ACTION-733 - prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F [on Larry Masinter - due 2012-09-28]. 17:54:26 my big concern is taht there is a lot of disagreement over what "faster" means 17:56:32 We certainly made a strong push wrt measurable claims of 'improvement' and 'speed-up' wrt EXI. . . 17:58:00 ACTION-683? 17:58:00 ACTION-683 -- Yves Lafon to figure out who might be a good choice to present Hybi (and as appropriate WebSocket protocols) to the TAG -- due 2012-04-24 -- OPEN 17:58:00 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/683 17:58:39 YL: Not quite sure how much traction hybi has just now. I will try to do so before F2F 17:58:59 ACTION-683 Due 2012-09-11 17:58:59 ACTION-683 Figure out who might be a good choice to present Hybi (and as appropriate WebSocket protocols) to the TAG due date now 2012-09-11 17:59:23 NM: Please tell me by mid-sept what we need for F2F agenda. 17:59:32 ACTION-617? 17:59:33 ACTION-617 -- Yves Lafon to work with Noah to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN 17:59:33 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/617 17:59:43 ACTION-617 Due 2012-10-15 17:59:43 ACTION-617 Work with Noah to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track due date now 2012-10-15 18:00:02 YL: Was wondering whether to put note, rescind 18:00:24 ACTION-711? 18:00:24 ACTION-711 -- Peter Linss to report on CSS WG plans for documenting policies relating to deployment and withdrawal of vendor-prefixed identifiers -- due 2012-08-22 -- OPEN 18:00:24 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/711 18:00:48 +1 to talk about this 18:00:57 NM: I'm inclined to discuss at F2F. What do you all think? 18:00:58 i haven't given up on the extensibility work, just put it off 18:01:34 ACTION: Noah to schedule discussion of vendor prefixes (ACTION-711) at F2F - Due 2012-09-20 18:01:34 Created ACTION-734 - schedule discussion of vendor prefixes (ACTION-711) at F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-09-20]. 18:01:52 ACTION-711 Due 2012-09-11 18:01:52 ACTION-711 report on CSS WG plans for documenting policies relating to deployment and withdrawal of vendor-prefixed identifiers due date now 2012-09-11 18:01:59 ACTION-606? 18:01:59 ACTION-606 -- Peter Linss to invite I18N and other concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization -- due 2012-06-12 -- OPEN 18:01:59 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/606 18:02:14 ACTION-606 Due 2012-10-31 18:02:14 ACTION-606 Invite I18N and other concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization due date now 2012-10-31 18:02:25 ACTION-718 18:02:27 ACTION-718? 18:02:27 ACTION-718 -- Ashok Malhotra to propose goals and success critera for TAG work on architectural issues relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. -- due 2012-08-15 -- OPEN 18:02:27 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/718 18:02:41 ACTION-718 Due 2012-09-11 18:02:41 ACTION-718 Propose goals and success critera for TAG work on architectural issues relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. due date now 2012-09-11 18:03:02 ACTION-714? 18:03:02 ACTION-714 -- Noah Mendelsohn to communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG -- due 2012-06-19 -- OPEN 18:03:02 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/714 18:03:16 ACTION-714 Due 2012-09-11 18:03:16 ACTION-714 Communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG due date now 2012-09-11 18:03:26 ACTION-695? 18:03:26 ACTION-695 -- Jonathan Rees to check with Thomas Roessler on whether security review of CORS is coming up in W3C/IETF liaison -- due 2012-08-14 -- OPEN 18:03:26 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/695 18:03:55 JAR: I think Thomas think's it's getting good review 18:04:16 I was trying to take on the bigger picture in "governanceFramework" 18:04:36 From JAR's notes in the action: 18:04:37 Thomas pointed me at these reviews: 18:04:37 Mark Nottingham http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009AprJun/0643.html 18:04:37 Jeff Hodges http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2012May/0006.html 18:04:37 KU Leuven https://distrinet.cs.kuleuven.be/projects/HTML5-security/ 18:05:34 -ht 18:07:23 ACTION-695 Due 2012-09-11 18:07:23 ACTION-695 Check with Thomas Roessler on whether security review of CORS is coming up in W3C/IETF liaison due date now 2012-09-11 18:07:55 ACTION-725? 18:07:55 ACTION-725 -- Jeni Tennison to with help from Peter, to create big picture overview coming out of analysis of TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN 18:07:55 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/725 18:08:27 ACTION-672? 18:08:27 ACTION-672 -- Jeni Tennison to work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored registry of HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media type registration, per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html -- due 2012-05-29 -- OPEN 18:08:27 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/672 18:08:32 Did the AB have an action here? 18:10:44 ACTION: Yves to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness 18:10:44 Created ACTION-735 - Check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness [on Yves Lafon - due 2012-09-06]. 18:10:47 I'm happy we have two FPWDs 18:12:44 ACTION-725? 18:12:44 ACTION-725 -- Jeni Tennison to with help from Peter, to create big picture overview coming out of analysis of TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN 18:12:44 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/725 18:13:13 Topic: Open actions 18:13:34 ACTION-710? 18:13:34 ACTION-710 -- Larry Masinter to keep an eye on issues relating to CA infrastructure weakness, including DANE -- due 2012-09-01 -- OPEN 18:13:34 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/710 18:14:04 LM: No news now, not much hope of news soon. 18:14:36 NM: So, probably continue action, but not F2F 18:14:51 ACTION-710 Due 2012-12-01 18:14:52 ACTION-710 keep an eye on issues relating to CA infrastructure weakness, including DANE due date now 2012-12-01 18:15:07 ACTION-704? 18:15:08 ACTION-704 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Jeni and Henry to try to identify next steps for moving forward on httpRange-14 -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN 18:15:08 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/704 18:16:15 ACTION-724? 18:16:15 ACTION-724 -- Henry Thompson to investigate possible TAG efforts on URI scheme proliferation and extension points -- due 2012-08-01 -- OPEN 18:16:15 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/724 18:16:38 NM: I'm tempted to schedule this for F2F discussion 18:16:43 I'd question what the problem is 18:17:10 I could lead a review of urireg document 18:17:47 web+ 18:17:50 I'm thinking of web+XXXXX 18:18:03 F2F discussion? 18:18:09 The question is which extension point to choose as a function of circumstances (I think). URI, media type, fragid, domain name, .well-known, etc 18:18:10 hmm..no opinions 18:18:38 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-iri-4395bis-irireg-04 18:18:55 ACTION: Noah to prod Henry on ACTION-724 for F2F 18:18:55 Created ACTION-736 - Prod Henry on ACTION-724 for F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-09-06]. 18:19:03 jar has left #tagmem 18:19:16 if it's on the agenda, i'd include the that 18:19:20 jar has joined #tagmem 18:19:43 rrsagent, pointer? 18:19:43 See http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-irc#T18-19-43 18:20:26 https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/open 18:20:38 I should have a new version of publishing in an hour 18:21:36 I got rid of most of the uses of 'resource' 18:21:38 ACTION: Yves on Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking 18:21:39 Created ACTION-737 - On Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking [on Yves Lafon - due 2012-09-06]. 18:22:04 ADJOURNED 18:22:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html Yves 18:22:12 -Noah_Mendelsohn 18:22:17 -Jonathan_Rees 18:22:18 -Yves 18:22:32 -TimBL 18:23:46 -Masinter 18:23:47 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended 18:23:47 Attendees were Masinter, Noah_Mendelsohn, Yves, ht, Jonathan_Rees, TimBL 18:37:32 darobin has joined #tagmem 18:49:28 hey Robin 19:33:36 Zakim has left #tagmem 20:42:42 darobin has joined #tagmem