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13:44:30 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WG
13:44:34 <fsasaki> chair: felix
13:44:41 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0319.html
13:44:48 <fsasaki> regrets: Jörg
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13:52:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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13:54:51 <fsasaki> present: arle, felix
13:54:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:57:18 <fsasaki> present+ yves
13:57:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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13:58:56 <fsasaki> present+ ankit
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14:00:12 <fsasaki> present+ jirka
14:00:19 <fsasaki> present+ des
14:00:41 <fsasaki> present+ guiseppe, michael
14:00:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:01:09 <fsasaki> present+ tadej
14:01:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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14:01:33 <fsasaki> present+ pablo
14:01:48 <fsasaki> present+ leroy
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14:01:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:02:13 <fsasaki> present+ dave
14:02:22 <fsasaki> present+ milan
14:02:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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14:03:04 <fsasaki> checking attendance
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14:03:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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14:03:43 <Jirka> you missed Mr. Echo
14:04:07 <fsasaki> present+ phil
14:06:58 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0319.html
14:07:40 <fsasaki> scribe: daveL
14:07:41 <daveL> scribe daveL
14:07:51 <fsasaki> topic: ACTIONS
14:08:05 <fsasaki> action-164?
14:08:05 <trackbot> ACTION-164 -- Maxime Lefrançois to create an RDF ontology for ITS, and make sure that we update the ITS XSD to accomodate the RDF output created via ACTION-147 -- due 2012-08-16 -- OPEN
14:08:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/164
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14:09:25 <daveL> tadej; followed this but can't dedicate time
14:10:15 <daveL> action: felix to liaise with maximie to complete this when time permits
14:10:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-205 - Liaise with maximie to complete this when time permits [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
14:10:29 <fsasaki> action-179?
14:10:29 <trackbot> ACTION-179 -- David Lewis to work with Olaf-Michael to help draft blurb for international organizations. -- due 2012-08-16 -- OPEN
14:10:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/179
14:11:05 <fsasaki> dave: talked about this with olaf, need to follow up
14:11:48 <fsasaki> .. ongoing
14:11:55 <fsasaki> action-196?
14:11:55 <trackbot> ACTION-196 -- Felix Sasaki to make inheritance - overriding etc. clearer in the spec -- due 2012-08-20 -- CLOSED
14:11:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/196
14:12:01 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0311.html
14:12:32 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategories-defaults-etc
14:14:48 <daveL> felix: inheritence and overriding colum are mutually redundant and make the function of inhertance clearer
14:14:58 <daveL> ... does everyone agree?
14:15:11 <daveL> Yves; in bread agreement
14:15:34 <fsasaki> dave: old text didn't really say what overriding did
14:15:53 <fsasaki> .. there is several aspects like "overriding the data values of the ITS category"
14:16:00 <fsasaki> .. that might make it clearer
14:16:14 <fsasaki> .. so there wasn't a definition what is overriden
14:16:34 <fsasaki> .. the data values that apply to the nodes get overriden
14:16:48 <daveL> scribe; daveL
14:16:56 <fsasaki> topic: PRAGUE + TPAC
14:16:56 <daveL> scribe: daveL
14:17:54 <daveL> felix: hope eveyone can come to both, though prague is most important
14:18:11 <daveL> ... but TPAC also give opportunity to meet other W3C folk
14:18:33 <daveL> Des; will be showing some implementations
14:19:41 <daveL> felis; people are implementing and we need slot in agenda for this
14:20:32 <fsasaki> s/felis/felix/
14:20:45 <Yves_> i should have some data categories working and useable too (XLIFF 1.2 and 2.0 output for example)
14:20:48 <daveL> daveL: will have some integration between CMS-LION and mose MT and perhaps XLIGG
14:21:23 <daveL> felix: ask eveyone to add any plans for demonstrations to prague agenda page
14:21:44 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012#Objectives
14:21:52 <fsasaki> "Your implementations and use cases here: ..."
14:22:12 <daveL> action: felix to follow up on demo commitments at prague under objectives on pargue agenda page
14:22:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-206 - Follow up on demo commitments at prague under objectives on pargue agenda page [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
14:22:39 <daveL> felix: you can add a point to page showing more details also.
14:23:12 <fsasaki> dave: people can be free to set up a page for "their" implementation to put more details in
14:23:42 <fsasaki> felix: sure
14:23:55 <fsasaki> topic: ISSUE-22
14:24:09 <daveL> felix; ISSUE 22 provenance, need update
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14:24:49 <fsasaki> dave: working on it. For actual text need to add pointers to translation agent
14:25:00 <fsasaki> .. where was the issue related to mtScore
14:25:08 <fsasaki> .. standoff just needed the pointer version added
14:25:45 <fsasaki> .. felix had sent a comment about "standoff prov. MUST point to a provenance record"
14:25:54 <fsasaki> .. how would you test conformance on that
14:26:14 <fsasaki> .. is it sufficient to have a URL and get a URL back
14:26:35 <fsasaki> felix: how would validation work?
14:26:46 <fsasaki> dave: several options for that in provenance
14:27:03 <fsasaki> .. basically a GET operation and you get something back in a certain format
14:27:21 <fsasaki> .. if you have a pointer to one of the records
14:27:33 <fsasaki> .. they need to follow a link and do an HTTP get
14:27:38 <fsasaki> .. to retrieve it
14:27:59 <fsasaki> .. but do they have to parse the record
14:29:45 <daveL> felix: you can have ITS data category conformance by access the URL, but there is more to showcasing functionality
14:30:45 <daveL> ... so test suite is artificial, but we want to have more live tests
14:31:27 <daveL> ... so we want the functional testing to really show the usefulness
14:33:48 <daveL> felix: test can cover both, we can do both at the same time
14:36:25 <daveL> felix: so current test suite isn't useful for real-life implementations
14:37:47 <Ankit> will having a MT system translate ITS metadata (as in testsuite) tagged text be an example of functional testing?
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14:38:37 <daveL> dave: suggest implementers provide thier funcitonal test when demoing in prague
14:39:06 <daveL> yves; can provide some examples in prague
14:39:26 <daveL> flix; to get some feedback on test suite input and output from HTML WG
14:39:55 <daveL> action: felix to get some feedback on test suite input and output from HTML WG
14:39:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-207 - Get some feedback on test suite input and output from HTML WG [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
14:40:19 <fsasaki> present+ david
14:40:50 <fsasaki> topic: ISSUE-34 quality data category
14:40:58 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqissue
14:41:07 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqprecis
14:41:22 <daveL> felix: yves has update specification as above
14:42:06 <daveL> Des: did quality score issue get resolved
14:42:32 <daveL> ... there were 4 options mentioned
14:43:00 <fsasaki> see mail here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0267.html
14:43:23 <daveL> yves: issue of whether it is a range or a vote need to be resolved, and an attribute added if both to be supported
14:44:21 <daveL> Des: can live without voting if it overcomplicate things
14:44:52 <daveL> Yves: lets check if other partners such as microsoft have an interest
14:45:14 <daveL> Des: it is a valid use case
14:45:39 <daveL> Yves: yes, but it should be an option in that data category rather than a new data category
14:45:49 <daveL> Des: agrees
14:46:23 <daveL> Yves; volunteer to add a proposal so we can explore the issues
14:46:46 <daveL> action: yves to add an option to quality precis draft supporting voting ranges
14:46:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Add an option to quality precis draft supporting voting ranges [on Yves Savourel - due 2012-09-06].
14:47:44 <fsasaki> topic: readibility of the spec
14:47:54 <fsasaki> .. currrently trying to re-draft parts of section 1
14:48:15 <fsasaki> .. disambiguation is very hard to read
14:48:25 <fsasaki> .. using a lot of computational linguistic terminology
14:48:45 <fsasaki> .. propose not to change a lot, but the prose
14:48:56 <fsasaki> tadej: posted a new version a while ago, aware of this problem
14:49:11 <fsasaki> .. whole data category talks about computational linguistic domain
14:50:14 <dF> perhaps tadej should mute
14:51:01 <daveL> felix: want to have some people to review some data category text with the eye of someone form a different domain
14:51:36 <daveL> action: tadej to review readability and make proposals to improve readability to non-localisation people
14:51:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Review readability and make proposals to improve readability to non-localisation people [on Tadej Štajner - due 2012-09-06].
14:52:02 <daveL> action: daveL to review diambiguation from the point of view of readability
14:52:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Review diambiguation from the point of view of readability [on David Lewis - due 2012-09-06].
14:52:11 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqprecis
14:52:34 <daveL> action: Michael to review quality precis for readability from non-localisation viewpoint
14:52:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Review quality precis for readability from non-localisation viewpoint [on Michael Kruppa - due 2012-09-06].
14:53:47 <daveL> felix; also ask Dave, David and moritz to do a general review of the draft
14:54:51 <fsasaki> dave: some data catgories have examples that do something which is not explained. You need to explain: here is an example how an element is selected, given the values etc.
14:54:55 <fsasaki> .. some of Yves ones are quite good
14:55:06 <fsasaki> .. I'd encourage everybody to look into that 
14:55:35 <fsasaki> topic: ISSUE-36 special requirements
14:56:44 <daveL> felix: summarised changes to special requirements and yves to include this
14:57:03 <daveL> action; yves to add allowed characters and stroage size to specification
14:57:15 <dF> Happy with  "forbidden characters" and "storage size" solutions as per e-mail discussion..
14:57:24 <daveL> action: Yves_ to add allowed characters and stroage size to specification
14:57:24 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Yves_
14:57:47 <fsasaki> topic: ISSUE-41 mtConfidence 
14:58:43 <daveL> dF: harmonisation issue to be resolved, e.g. with provenance
14:59:29 <daveL> ... need more granularity on translation agent for this to advance 
15:01:27 <daveL> action: daveL to call David to advance the transagent and mtconfirdence score harmonisation
15:01:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-212 - Call David to advance the transagent and mtconfirdence score harmonisation [on David Lewis - due 2012-09-06].
15:02:06 <daveL> dF: ask tadej what score format is relevant to text analytics
15:03:05 <daveL> tadej: either 0 to 1 or percentage would work, but 0-1 would work and is perhaps more common
15:03:17 <Michael> sorry, gotta run...cheers
15:04:10 <daveL> felix: summarize is 0 to 1 best solution
15:04:21 <fsasaki> s/felix:/tadej:/
15:04:32 <daveL> tadej: this is simpler to process and percentage and can be XSD float
15:04:47 <daveL> dF: agree we will go for this option
15:05:29 <fsasaki> topic: time of this call
15:05:49 <fsasaki> would it work for everybody to have it one our earlier?
15:05:54 <fsasaki> phil: would be OK
15:06:01 <Ankit> works for us too (DCU)
15:06:22 <daveL> dF: could yves move earlier
15:06:35 <daveL> yves: yes, can try
15:06:51 <fsasaki> action: felix to send info about time change proposal to the list
15:06:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-213 - Send info about time change proposal to the list [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
15:07:25 <daveL> rrsagent, generate minutes 
15:07:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html daveL
15:07:44 <Yves_> exit
15:09:39 <fsasaki> time propsosal - one hour later
15:15:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:19:13 <Ankit> Bye..
15:22:29 <gderiard> Good bye....
15:31:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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