12:57:01 RRSAgent has joined #dap 12:57:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-dap-irc 12:57:03 RRSAgent, make logs world 12:57:03 Zakim has joined #dap 12:57:05 Zakim, this will be DAP 12:57:05 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 12:57:06 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 12:57:06 Date: 29 August 2012 13:07:30 zakim, this will be DAP 13:07:30 ok, fjh; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 53 minutes 13:07:58 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0096.html 13:08:50 Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 13:09:02 Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 13:27:48 Regrets+ Claes_Nilsson 13:58:19 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:58:25 +??P11 13:58:31 zakim, ??P11 is me 13:58:31 +fjh; got it 14:00:49 +gmandyam 14:01:09 gmandyam has joined #dap 14:01:10 +Josh_Soref 14:01:19 scribe: Josh_Soref 14:01:21 AnssiK has joined #dap 14:01:27 Milan_Patel has joined #dap 14:01:37 +milan_patel 14:01:52 Hello from Giri Mandyam (Qualcomm Innovation Center), dialing in from (858) area code 14:02:01 +??P15 14:02:08 zakim, ??P15 is me 14:02:08 +AnssiK; got it 14:02:15 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:02:37 s/Hello from Giri Mandyam (Qualcomm Innovation Center), dialing in from (858) area code// 14:02:41 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:02:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:03:22 bryan has joined #dap 14:03:41 +??P16 14:03:51 Zakim, ??P16 is me 14:03:51 +darobin; got it 14:03:56 Jungkee has joined #dap 14:04:07 Present+ Jungkee_Song 14:04:41 +bryan 14:04:42 present+ Bryan_Sullivan 14:04:57 dsr has joined #dap 14:05:08 +Dsr 14:05:26 zakim, who is here? 14:05:26 On the phone I see fjh, gmandyam, Josh_Soref, milan_patel, AnssiK, darobin, bryan, Dsr 14:05:29 On IRC I see dsr, Jungkee, bryan, Milan_Patel, AnssiK, gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Paul_Kinlan, darobin, trackbot, mounir, Josh_Soref, richt, hiroto, slightlyoff, tobie, dom 14:05:41 +darobin.a 14:05:51 +Cathy 14:05:51 zakim, who is here? 14:05:52 On the phone I see fjh, gmandyam, Josh_Soref, milan_patel, AnssiK, darobin, bryan, Dsr, darobin.a, Cathy 14:05:52 On IRC I see dsr, Jungkee, bryan, Milan_Patel, AnssiK, gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Paul_Kinlan, darobin, trackbot, mounir, Josh_Soref, richt, hiroto, slightlyoff, tobie, dom 14:06:15 Zakim, mute darobin 14:06:15 darobin should now be muted 14:06:16 -Cathy 14:06:18 Zakim, unmute darobin 14:06:18 darobin should no longer be muted 14:06:37 +Cathy 14:06:39 Zakim, mute darobin.a 14:06:39 darobin.a should now be muted 14:06:45 Zakim, unmute darobin.a 14:06:45 darobin.a should no longer be muted 14:07:00 Zakim, darobin.a is not darobin 14:07:00 I don't understand 'darobin.a is not darobin', darobin 14:07:23 Zakim, darobin.a is really unknown_caller_in_france 14:07:23 +unknown_caller_in_france; got it 14:07:26 -Dsr 14:07:33 +Dsr 14:07:39 -Dsr 14:07:55 +Dsr 14:09:26 proposed RESOLUTION: The DAP WG thanks Robin Berjon for all his contributions to DAP 14:09:41 richt_ has joined #dap 14:09:50 i/proposed/Topic: Administrative/ 14:09:57 RESOLUTION: The DAP WG thanks Robin Berjon for all his contributions to DAP 14:10:11 welcome to additional DAP members - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0069.html 14:10:35 Topic: Minutes Approval 14:10:38 Approve minutes from 22 August 2012 14:10:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/att-0094/minutes-2012-08-22.html 14:10:41 +richt_ 14:10:52 RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 22 August 2012 14:11:14 Topic: HTML Media Capture 14:11:21 Comments - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0045.html 14:11:32 proposed resolutions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0074.html 14:12:20 AnssiK: i used the language inherited from HTML5 spec 14:12:28 ... which is why the spec is phrased in term of DOM 14:12:32 ... we could diverge from that 14:12:35 some additional suggestions I have - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0101.html 14:12:37 ... making it explicit in prose 14:12:50 ... i'll have to look around and see how other standalone specifications do it 14:12:57 fjh: you could look at other examples 14:13:34 AnssiK: i think we have other cases which address things like chaals's concerns 14:13:44 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/ 14:13:59 Cathy has joined #dap 14:14:04 i/inherited/fjh: chaals was concerned that you didn't know that you could have markup/ 14:14:23 Zakim, who is making noise? 14:14:34 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (51%), darobin (35%) 14:14:41 Zakim, mute darobin 14:14:41 darobin should now be muted 14:14:54 Zakim, mute me 14:14:54 Josh_Soref should now be muted 14:14:54 zakim, who is making noise? 14:14:56 Zakim, unmute me 14:14:56 darobin should no longer be muted 14:15:05 zakim, who is making noise? 14:15:05 fjh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AnssiK (33%) 14:15:20 darobin, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (22%) 14:15:25 Zakim, drop AnssiK 14:15:25 AnssiK is being disconnected 14:15:26 -AnssiK 14:15:35 zakim, who is making noise? 14:15:40 +??P15 14:15:41 Zakim, mute fjh 14:15:41 fjh should now be muted 14:15:43 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:15:43 On the phone I see fjh (muted), gmandyam, Josh_Soref (muted), milan_patel, darobin, bryan, Dsr, unknown_caller_in_france, Cathy, richt_, ??P15 14:15:46 darobin, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds 14:15:47 Zakim, mute richt_ 14:15:48 richt_ should now be muted 14:15:51 Zakim, mute gmandyam 14:15:51 gmandyam should now be muted 14:15:55 Zakim, mute bryan 14:15:55 bryan should now be muted 14:15:56 well, I'm trying to call again 14:15:59 Zakim, mute Jungkee 14:15:59 sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Jungkee 14:16:02 -??P15 14:16:03 Zakim, mute Jungkee_Song 14:16:04 sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Jungkee_Song 14:16:05 ??P15 might be me 14:16:10 Zakim, mute ??P15 14:16:10 sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??P15 14:16:13 -unknown_caller_in_france 14:16:19 unmute me 14:16:20 + +358.504.86aaaa 14:16:24 zakim, unmute me 14:16:24 richt_ should no longer be muted 14:16:24 Zakim, unmute fjh 14:16:25 fjh should no longer be muted 14:16:25 zakim, aaaa is me 14:16:25 +AnssiK; got it 14:16:44 +??P18 14:16:53 Zakim, ??P18 is me 14:16:53 +Jungkee; got it 14:16:58 Zakim, mute Jungkee 14:16:58 Jungkee should now be muted 14:17:06 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:17:06 On the phone I see fjh, gmandyam (muted), Josh_Soref (muted), milan_patel, darobin, bryan (muted), Dsr, Cathy, richt_, AnssiK, Jungkee (muted) 14:17:32 AnssiK: my approach was to inherit as much of the HTML5 prose as possible 14:17:37 ... to keep the spec as short as possible 14:17:39 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/ 14:17:48 ... the expectation is that people reading this spec would be aware of the HTML5 spec 14:17:59 ... however, i can do whatever is needed to get this spec to LC 14:18:10 fjh: i have some feedback from dougt 14:18:40 AnssiK: i'll reply on the list addressing all the comments you have 14:19:17 fjh: we should enter responses into the LC tracker 14:19:22 AnssiK: what's the process here? 14:19:28 fjh: you can do things informally 14:19:35 ... for chaals and dougt 14:19:38 nwidell has joined #dap 14:19:40 ... you can do things informally 14:19:52 +nwidell 14:19:54 ... otherwise, you can enter things in the LC tracker, and it does them automatically 14:20:41 Josh_Soref: I plan to respond to MC at some point 14:20:48 ... I was doing actions for Intents recently 14:20:55 action: fjh to enter HTML Media LC comment responses into LC tracker 14:20:55 Created ACTION-571 - Enter HTML Media LC comment responses into LC tracker [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-09-05]. 14:21:02 fjh: thanks AnssiK 14:21:17 topic: Ambient Temperature 14:21:21 CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0065.html 14:21:24 fjh: we had a CfC on these 14:21:28 ... and i think the CfC has failed 14:21:31 ... with good reason 14:21:35 Zakim, unmute me 14:21:35 Josh_Soref should no longer be muted 14:21:44 s/Temperature/Temperature and Humidity/ 14:21:50 fjh: we could do a testharness, but it seems like a lot of work 14:21:52 arguments against on list, including questions of implementability. 14:21:56 ... it seems like we should figure it out 14:22:09 proposed RESOLUTION: move these specs in the home page Roadmap to 'Exploratory Work' section 14:22:12 +1 14:22:14 +1 14:22:20 +1 14:22:40 RESOLUTION: move these specs in the home page Roadmap to 'Exploratory Work' section 14:22:46 fjh: i'll do that 14:22:57 action: fjh to move specs in the home page Roadmap to 'Exploratory Work' section 14:22:58 Created ACTION-572 - Move specs in the home page Roadmap to 'Exploratory Work' section [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-09-05]. 14:22:59 dsr: if you could do that, that would be great 14:23:17 Topic: Network Service Discovery and Messaging 14:23:26 fjh: there's been comments from Cathy 14:23:31 Josh_Soref: richt_ is on the call 14:23:34 Additional comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0095.html (Cathy) 14:23:39 fjh: if there's anything that needs to be talked about 14:23:45 ... but i think you need to do more edits 14:23:51 richt_: i agree, but i have a backlog 14:23:57 ... i don't know i can do them this week 14:24:04 Cathy: it's just more work for richt_ 14:24:37 richt_: i think the spec could use some restructuring 14:24:47 ... if we did this around UPnP state, i think that could address some concerns 14:24:51 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:24:51 On the phone I see fjh, gmandyam (muted), Josh_Soref, milan_patel, darobin, bryan (muted), Dsr, Cathy, richt_, AnssiK, Jungkee (muted), nwidell 14:24:57 Topic: Network Information API 14:25:00 test suite proposal, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0078.html 14:25:04 fjh: i don't think we have mozilla people on the call 14:25:12 AnssiK: i'm going to start writing the test suite 14:25:17 ... the easy part is testing the IDL 14:25:25 need to figure out the test harness part, whether we can use work from Mozilla 14:25:27 ... the harder part is testing hardware interaction 14:25:45 ... i was aware mozilla had some intention to handle things more intelligently for battery 14:25:51 ... i'm open to suggestions/pointers 14:25:59 Zakim, q+ to talk about Cordova-Contacts 14:25:59 I see Josh_Soref on the speaker queue 14:26:14 ... i think there are test suites that try to solve similar problems 14:26:29 ... there are test suites that require manual intervention (touch) 14:26:37 ... and CSS (visual inspection) 14:26:44 ... this is a call out for people, if you have ideas 14:26:57 ... i know darobin had ideas on how to make progress with vibration 14:27:04 ... making things separate runnable testcases 14:27:05 q? 14:27:11 ... which require a human 14:27:24 darobin: it's important to make manual tests separate from automated tests 14:27:32 ... so you can run the automated tests automatically 14:27:44 AnssiK: so we write the test cases that can be automated 14:27:57 ... and then make additional test cases that require manual interaction 14:28:12 ... i could take things from the vibration test suite 14:28:19 ... darobin did that half a year ago 14:28:26 ... darobin, are you happy with those? 14:28:37 darobin: i think overall, the style of the tests could be improved 14:28:41 Zakim, who is making noise? 14:28:45 http://darobin.github.com/test-harness-tutorial/docs/using-testharness.html 14:28:51 darobin: since then, i wrote a tutorial on using testharness 14:28:53 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Josh_Soref (5%), AnssiK (71%) 14:29:01 Zakim, mute me 14:29:01 Josh_Soref should now be muted 14:29:09 AnssiK: i read that, it's quite helpful 14:29:16 ... the best documentation written in English 14:29:30 darobin: if you pick up the vibration tests, and you have any questions, don't hesitate to ping me 14:29:41 AnssiK: i'm just looking to see if we have best practices 14:29:46 ... it seems we're making them 14:29:49 darobin: it's complicated 14:29:54 ... vibration tests are almost all manual 14:30:02 ... you need a human 14:30:11 Josh_Soref: you could have a camera watching the device :) 14:30:22 AnssiK: the mozilla guys were using an emulator 14:30:30 simulator 14:30:38 s/emulator/simulator/ 14:30:53 darobin: you could try to use the accelerometer 14:30:56 ... to detect vibration 14:31:22 fjh: for battery, you need to use a simulator 14:31:26 ... otherwise you wait forever 14:31:35 AnssiK: for battery, you could use computationally complicated JS 14:31:43 q? 14:31:49 ... but it'd be hard/bad for full/empty/in between, plug in, unplug 14:31:55 ack Josh_Soref 14:31:55 ... thanks for the ideas 14:31:56 Josh_Soref, you wanted to talk about Cordova-Contacts 14:32:30 fjh: AnssiK, will you contact the mozilla guys? 14:32:53 AnssiK: the mozilla guys are subscribed to the DAP list 14:32:59 ... but maybe i should ping them directly 14:33:16 Topic: Ambient Light 14:33:22 fjh: AnssiK, you're editing that 14:33:27 ... and we're waiting for implementation 14:33:30 ... is that right? 14:33:39 AnssiK: ambient is edited by dougt 14:33:47 ... dougt took proximity 14:33:55 ... it's the same spec, with the names changed 14:34:00 fjh: oh right, i got confused 14:34:08 AnssiK: we'll need to backport changes to proximity 14:34:11 ... if there are changed 14:34:16 fjh: there's been some proposals/discussions 14:34:23 ... that things should go into the ambient light spec 14:34:54 ... i think this spec needs edits 14:34:57 Topic: Proximity 14:35:41 s/Topic: Proximity// 14:35:52 fjh: i think there's an issue about Light Levels 14:35:55 Topic: Proximity 14:36:08 AnssiK: if there's a common issue between Ambient Light/Proximity 14:36:17 ... i'd like to fix them both at the same time 14:36:27 ... it's good to keep the specs separate for interop testing 14:36:31 ... and getting through the process 14:36:42 fjh: here we're dealing with testing? 14:37:22 ... darobin, you had an action here? 14:38:10 darobin: proximity is not a spec/test area where i had actions 14:38:23 ... i had actions for battery/vibration, which i did 14:38:32 fjh: AnssiK, you're working on proximity? 14:38:39 AnssiK: i have an action item for battery/vibration 14:38:45 ... then i'll look at the remaining specs 14:39:00 Topic: Web API Design Cookbook 14:39:07 http://darobin.github.com/api-design-cookbook/ 14:39:11 fjh: we agreed on a previous call to publish a FPWD 14:39:19 ... darobin, you're working on that w/ Jungkee 14:39:24 darobin: i'll push it through the usual steps 14:39:35 ... i'll do that before the end of the week 14:39:39 ... tomorrow or tuesday 14:39:44 Will be dropping from IRC and continuing to listen on the phone 14:39:53 ... i probably won't be editing it very actively 14:40:03 ... we'll need a plan for it to go forward 14:40:09 fjh: this will be a note 14:40:19 darobin: sure, but there are parts that aren't finished 14:40:22 Topic: TPAC 14:40:30 fjh: meeting 1-2 Nov 14:40:32 Please complete WG questionnaire - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Aug/0043.html 14:40:43 Also remember to register for TPAC (separate from questionnaire) and make travel arrangements. 14:40:57 Please suggest agenda topics. Agenda wiki: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_1-2_November_TPAC_Lyon_France 14:41:07 WebIntents session during WebApps on Tue : http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/TPAC2012Meeting#Agenda_Tuesday_October_30 14:41:40 AnssiK: what time are we planning to end the meeting on Friday? 14:41:45 ... i'll leave @2pm 14:41:49 fjh: it'll probably go beyond that 14:42:14 ... i'm expecting we'll have a good amount of discussion on web intents/web activities 14:42:22 ... and we'll have to work on day two 14:42:38 ... i'd prefer my specs be either friday morning, or on thursday 14:42:52 s/... i'd/AnssiK: i'd/ 14:42:55 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:42:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:43:22 Topic: WebIntents 14:43:31 fjh: there's a bunch of actions 14:43:39 ... darobin, not sure what the right way to do this is 14:43:46 ACTION-514? 14:43:46 ACTION-514 -- Robin Berjon to talk to the Web Schema group about using schema.org nouns for Intents -- due 2012-07-18 -- OPEN 14:43:46 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/514 14:44:07 darobin: i think my actions are overtaken by 14:44:40 s/by/by "Events"/ 14:45:06 darobin: for action-514, the idea was to talk to the webschema thing to see if that makes sense 14:45:15 ... i talked to Dan and he's interested 14:45:22 ... but we didn't see anything to do 14:45:23 s/"Events"/events" 14:45:28 ACTION-514 closed 14:45:28 ACTION-514 Talk to the Web Schema group about using schema.org nouns for Intents closed 14:45:33 s/events"/events 14:45:34 Zakim, who is making noise? 14:45:38 ACTION-516? 14:45:38 ACTION-516 -- Josh Soref to propose Security Considerations section on SSL for Intents sepc -- due 2012-07-18 -- OPEN 14:45:38 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/516 14:45:42 s/Dan/Dan Brickley/ 14:45:46 Josh_Soref, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (64%), darobin (77%) 14:45:46 ACTION-550? 14:45:46 ACTION-550 -- James Hawkins to add event for on load to webintents spec -- due 2012-07-17 -- OPEN 14:45:46 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/550 14:45:57 ACTION-551? 14:45:57 ACTION-551 -- James Hawkins to share proposal on list to handle dynamic insertion/removal etc of tags -- due 2012-07-17 -- OPEN 14:45:57 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/551 14:46:06 ACTION-516: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-intents/2012Aug/0049.html 14:46:06 ACTION-516 Propose Security Considerations section on SSL for Intents sepc notes added 14:46:58 ACTION-516 close 14:47:05 s/ACTION-516 close// 14:47:09 ACTION-516 closed 14:47:09 ACTION-516 Propose Security Considerations section on SSL for Intents sepc closed 14:47:42 ACTION-556? 14:47:42 ACTION-556 -- Robin Berjon to set up test repository with example, docs, manifest generation for Web Intents -- due 2012-07-18 -- OPEN 14:47:42 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/556 14:48:11 darobin: i'll get around to it 14:48:16 fjh: thank you 14:48:33 Topic: Additional Actions 14:48:48 fjh: what intrigued me is a gUM action 14:49:02 ... i'm not sure why that's here, v. in MC 14:49:02 ACTION-558? 14:49:02 ACTION-558 -- Robin Berjon to draft a proposal for stills capture for gUM -- due 2012-07-18 -- OPEN 14:49:02 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/558 14:49:23 Josh_Soref: the MC TF might not have a Tracker 14:49:37 darobin: i'll probably have to get around to this 14:49:54 ACTION-555? 14:49:54 ACTION-555 -- Claes Nilsson to add mDNS adaption to the 'Web Intents Addendum - Local Services' specification for feature completion and before FPWD -- due 2012-08-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:49:54 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/555 14:50:02 ACTION-555 closed 14:50:02 ACTION-555 Add mDNS adaption to the 'Web Intents Addendum - Local Services' specification for feature completion and before FPWD closed 14:50:11 ACTION-569? 14:50:11 ACTION-569 -- Frederick Hirsch to follow up regarding next steps for ambient light events on list -- due 2012-08-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:50:11 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/569 14:50:16 ACTION-569 closed 14:50:16 ACTION-569 Follow up regarding next steps for ambient light events on list closed 14:50:23 ACTION-570? 14:50:23 ACTION-570 -- Frederick Hirsch to send CfC for WG to progress Ambient Temperature Events, Ambient Humidity Events drafts and publish FPWD of each -- due 2012-08-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:50:23 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/570 14:50:30 ACTION-570 closed 14:50:30 ACTION-570 Send CfC for WG to progress Ambient Temperature Events, Ambient Humidity Events drafts and publish FPWD of each closed 14:50:50 Topic: Contacts 14:51:27 josh_soref: contacts is discussed elsewhere, some implementation experience int that group 14:51:49 josh_soref: want to not always merge contact providers 14:52:04 josh_soref: thus want to do the way in WebIntents 14:52:30 fjh: what is actionable here? 14:52:58 josh_soref: nothing specific to do, but we are getting feedback here that our new approach is good 14:53:07 http://docs.phonegap.com/en/edge/cordova_contacts_contacts.md.html 14:54:38 http://callback.markmail.org/search/?q=#query:%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev+page:1+state:facets 14:54:54 josh_soref: all of their mail is on one list 14:55:00 http://callback.markmail.org/search/?q=+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev+contacts 14:55:25 anssiK: what are they implementing 14:56:05 http://wiki.apache.org/cordova/RoadmapProjects 14:56:07 josh_soref: they implemented the original API and discovered issues with it, they seem to want to use new approach, but hard to tell them, not sure of their schedule 14:56:54 AnssiK: darobin, will you continue editing pick-contact intent spec? 14:56:57 darobin: i probably won't 14:57:01 ... i'll help if i can 14:57:10 ... it's up for grabs 14:57:17 AnssiK: richt_, what about you? 14:57:22 Zakim, who is making noise? 14:57:34 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (26%), richt_ (35%), AnssiK (35%) 14:57:45 richt_: i agree with the changes 14:57:54 ... i'd like someone else to do day-to-day editing 14:57:59 ... it's a little down on my priority list 14:58:08 i would like to take on that 14:58:14 Josh_Soref: i should try to work on it 14:58:18 let me also look at it 14:58:32