14:58:58 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:58:58 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-html-a11y-irc
14:59:00 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:00 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:59:02 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:02 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 59 minutes ago
14:59:03 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:03 Date: 23 August 2012
14:59:50 zakim, who's on the phone?
14:59:50 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
14:59:51 On IRC I see RRSAgent, JF, janina, davidb, Stevef, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:00:00 zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:03 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
15:00:06 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:06 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:00:08 On IRC I see RRSAgent, JF, janina, davidb, Stevef, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:00:36 zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:38 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
15:00:40 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:41 regrets for today won't be on call, if you need me I will be on IRC
15:00:44 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:00:50 On IRC I see RRSAgent, JF, janina, davidb, Stevef, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:01:16 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:01:34 Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:01:34 Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:01:34 agenda+ Issue-204 Follow-Up
15:01:34 agenda+ Issue-30 Status & Next Steps
15:01:34 agenda+ Issue-131 Status and Next Steps
15:01:37 agenda+ Issue-206 Status and Next Steps
15:01:39 agenda+ Issue-31B (Sec. 4.8) Analysis Report [See"Resource: Draft Alt Report" below]
15:01:42 agenda+ The Task Force at the TPAC
15:01:45 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Text; ARIA Mappings
15:01:47 agenda+ Other Business
15:01:50 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:01:52 agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:01:55 agenda+ be done
15:03:05 zakim, who's here?
15:03:05 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:03:06 On IRC I see richardschwerdtfe, Zakim, RRSAgent, JF, janina, davidb, Stevef, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:03:32 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)
15:03:32 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM already started
15:03:41 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:41 On the phone I see John_Foliot, ??P37, Rich
15:03:52 zakim, ??P37 is Janina
15:03:52 +Janina; got it
15:06:34 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:07:49 Zakim, call Mike
15:07:49 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:07:51 +Mike
15:09:17 +Judy
15:11:42 zakim, who's here?
15:11:42 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Janina, Rich, Mike, Judy
15:11:43 On IRC I see Judy, richardschwerdtfe, Zakim, RRSAgent, JF, janina, davidb, Stevef, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:11:57 scribe: JF
15:12:15 Zakim, take up item 1
15:12:15 agendum 1. "Issue-204 Follow-Up" taken up [from janina]
15:13:10 JS: for the record, a Formal Objection forthcoming from PF on this item
15:13:23 requests expidited handling
15:13:51 zakim ,take up next item
15:14:03 zakim, take up next item
15:14:03 agendum 2. "Issue-30 Status & Next Steps" taken up [from janina]
15:14:15 JS: chairs have moved the deadline to Aug 30th
15:14:46 some discussion has happened regarding testing and claims
15:17:24 q+
15:18:01 JF: posted a test page, and posed some questions to Maciej about how this might work
15:18:28 RS: Authors have a n expectation that this content is hidden, and now they are looking to redefine it
15:19:32 The proposal also goes beyond 'just' describedby, it is any and all ARIA attributes (flowto) that may be hidden
15:20:21 RS: if they continue with this, this is something that authors did not expect. It will mean that we may have to go back to last Call for ARIA.
15:20:50 Yet we are also looking at legislative requirements that are anxiously waiting for this as a Formal Standard, and not a Draft
15:21:44 s/ARIA attributes (flowto)/ARIA relationship attributes (i.e. flowto, controls)
15:22:56 RS: this not only impacts ARIA, but has impact on WCAG 2 internationally
15:23:04 so the impact here is far-reaching
15:24:12 RS: The Straw Poll did not allow for the wider discussion that the complexities here require
15:24:44 RS: we've looked at a new attribute called describedat, and then we could contain the experience and functionality
15:24:53 without impacting the ARIA 1.0 spec
15:25:39 RS: I can see the use case, but forcing ARIA to go backwards, impacting authors and IT (not to mention legislation, etc.) is not the right approach
15:25:59 JB: seeking clarification on what topic we are discussing
15:27:07 JS: we are discussing coordination of 204 and 30
15:27:49 Working on getting the Issue 30 CP ready.
15:27:59 RS: I just wanted to get other concerns on the record
15:28:06 zakim, take up next item
15:28:06 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JF
15:28:19 Q?
15:28:24 ack rich
15:28:33 zakim, take up next item
15:28:33 agendum 3. "Issue-131 Status and Next Steps" taken up [from janina]
15:29:20 JS: seems that it haws been mostly closed, however Charles Pritchard has requested some additional time to review and possibly submit an alternative CP
15:29:43 RS: I think the hit-testing and caret and selection topics should be considered seperately
15:30:24 RS: think that caret/selection should be addressed in HTML.next
15:31:10 JS: I think that Issue 131 is blocked by Issue 201 hosever
15:31:28 RS: don't have an issue with 201
15:32:04 MS: I think that we have enough consensus at this time, and Charles' request appears to be slowing things down
15:32:46 MS: it would be useful to get Charles to not slow things now
15:33:20 RS: this may be dependent on 201, however how do we get issue 131 moving forward
15:33:57 MS: the spec should be considered Feature frozen, and introducing new features at this time places many of them in risk
15:34:01 Q+
15:34:23 MS: so it seems somewhat absurd to be adding new features when we have no implementation now
15:34:44 JS: sounds like we have agreement here
15:34:48 I concur with mike, we have been working on this canvas fallback issue in public for a long period, we have an agreed set of edits that support accessibility and appear to have browser vendor support
15:35:49 RS: yes, take Issue 131 caret selection and move to HTML.next
15:36:00 note that both of the last accessibility changes were accepted without any push back, which is a win for our goals on canvas
15:36:29 RS: with 201, I am happy with Ted's current proposal - so if we can unlock the dependance then we will see progress
15:37:43 MS: there are a number of features that are at risk already (for example Drag and Drop)
15:38:13 MS: the whole point now is to record dependable code/techniques that can be used in production already
15:38:47 RS: yes, the hit testing issue is big due to the fact that Flash is going away
15:39:19 and is being replaced by Canvas - the Dept of Edu in the US is seriously looking at migrating in this direction
15:39:49 MS: what I hear is that there is some faith that we will get there in 2014
15:39:56 RS: yes, i think that is doable
15:40:13 MS: the decision will come to the Chairs and WG what stays and what drops
15:40:37 RS: feel fairly certain that Microsoft has implemented a fair bit of this (hit testing)
15:42:34 q?
15:43:57 JF: Has anyone spoken with Charles?
15:44:11 RS: I will talk to him, but earliest will be later this week
15:46:11 ack JF
15:46:44 zakim, take up next item
15:46:44 agendum 4. "Issue-206 Status and Next Steps" taken up [from janina]
15:47:31 JS: the Chairs issued a CFC this week that seeks to adopt the proposal that Judy and Mike wrote up (drop meta generator)
15:47:57 but continue the discussion around a 'replacement'
15:49:46 CFC: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Aug/0383.html
15:50:05 deadline = August 30th, 2012
15:50:12 zakim, next item
15:50:12 agendum 5. "Issue-31B (Sec. 4.8) Analysis Report" taken up [from See"Resource: Draft Alt Report" below]
15:50:56 JB: originally sought to finalize the presentation around buggy alt and buggy alt guidance to the Chairs
15:51:19 that was delayed due to issues around 204 decision and negociating time extension on issue 30
15:51:22 so still pending
15:51:41 without this however the spec has conflicting guidance. hope to return to that next week
15:52:26 zakim, next item
15:52:26 agendum 6. "The Task Force at the TPAC" taken up [from janina]
15:52:51 JS: no agenda for TPAC yewt
15:52:56 zakim, next item
15:52:56 agendum 6 was just opened, JF
15:53:11 zakim, close agendum 6
15:53:11 agendum 6, The Task Force at the TPAC, closed
15:53:13 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:53:13 7. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Text; ARIA Mappings [from janina]
15:53:17 zakim, next item
15:53:17 agendum 7. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Text; ARIA Mappings" taken up [from janina]
15:53:31 -Mike
15:53:43 -Janina
15:54:14 JS; none to report
15:54:26 -Judy
15:57:42 rrsagent, make minutes public
15:57:42 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', JF. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:58:21 rrsagent, stop log
15:58:21 I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', JF. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:58:34 rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:00:31 rrsagent, stop log
16:00:31 I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', JF. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:00:58 zakim, please part
16:00:58 leaving. As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Rich, Janina, Mike, Judy
16:00:58 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:01:11 rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:06:12 rrsagent, please part
16:06:12 I see no action items