14:55:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:55:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-irc
14:55:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:56:03 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
14:56:08 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:56:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:56:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:56:13 <trackbot> Date: 22 August 2012
14:56:26 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0081.html
14:56:35 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:56:40 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:56:44 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:56:51 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:56:56 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
14:57:31 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:57:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:59:40 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:47 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:00:13 <Zakim> +??P3
15:00:16 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
15:00:17 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:00:27 <Zakim> +??P5
15:00:41 <matial> zakim, ??p5 is me
15:00:41 <Zakim> +matial; got it
15:01:11 <aphillip> zakim, matiala is fsasaki
15:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, aphillip, I do not recognize a party named 'matiala'
15:01:18 <r12a> zakim, dial richard-home
15:01:18 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:01:20 <Zakim> +Richard
15:01:24 <aphillip> zakim, matial.a is fsasaki
15:01:25 <Zakim> +fsasaki; got it
15:02:28 <r12a> agenda+ charter
15:04:04 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda and Minutes
15:04:45 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:05:04 <Zakim> +Norbert
15:05:21 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:05:55 <aphillip> Filed: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18646
15:06:12 <aphillip> close ACTION-142
15:06:12 <trackbot> ACTION-142 File a ticket on HTML5 asking for accommodation of IANA time zone IDs closed
15:06:18 <andrewc> andrewc has joined #i18n
15:06:31 <aphillip>  	Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week
15:06:54 <aphillip> felix: probably take a little while
15:07:07 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:07:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:07:18 <Zakim> +??P16
15:07:44 <koji> koji has joined #i18n
15:07:59 <Zakim> +??P17
15:08:13 <aphillip> richard: updated templates/boilerplates for articles
15:08:25 <aphillip> ... now show live results from test framework database
15:08:39 <aphillip> ... still doing some tweaks for maintaintability
15:08:46 <aphillip> ... if look at test page
15:08:49 <koji> zakim, ??p17 is me
15:08:49 <Zakim> +koji; got it
15:08:51 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/
15:09:11 <aphillip> richard: the list is a pain to maintain
15:09:25 <aphillip> ... so removing links to list pages
15:09:33 <aphillip> ... because results page does that work
15:09:33 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/character-encoding/results-basics
15:09:42 <aphillip> richard: above is link to results page
15:11:13 <aphillip> Topic: Charter
15:11:28 <aphillip> richard: end date for charter renewal is close
15:11:31 <aphillip> ... not a lot of response
15:11:35 <aphillip> ... 9 currently
15:11:39 <aphillip> ... would like more
15:11:49 <aphillip> ... anyone on call with an AC Rep get them to do so
15:11:50 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
15:11:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Addison_Phillips, matial (muted), fsasaki (muted), Richard, Norbert, koji, andrewc
15:11:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see koji, andrewc, Norbert, matial, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, fsasaki, trackbot
15:12:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:12:53 <Najib-ma> Najib-ma has joined #i18n
15:13:28 <aphillip> Topic: TURTLE (yes, again, but we finish this time)
15:13:40 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0072.html
15:14:16 <r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0076.html
15:14:29 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html#item06
15:17:18 <aphillip> norbert: not actually another type to use for 6a. don't complain about it
15:17:22 <aphillip> addison: okay
15:17:24 <aphillip> >> 7. Section 2.6. These escapes are malformed or use a questionable syntax: >>  >> The characters -, \uB7, \u300 to \u36F and \u203F to 2040 are permitted anywhere except the first character. >  > + Use the U+XXXX or U+XXXXXX notation to refer to code points in the specification (rather than other escaped forms).
15:17:51 <aphillip> (also name the characters?)
15:18:56 <aphillip> addison: appears to be a "ppor man's" attempt to prevent including combining marks
15:19:16 <aphillip> >> 8. Section 3. The reference to #xA; is making some assumptions about line terminators too :-) >  > + Don't make assumptions about line terminator characters. >  >  >> An example of two identical triples containing literal objects containing newlines, written in plain and long literal forms. Assumes that line feeds in this document are #xA. (example3.ttl): >> 
15:20:49 <aphillip> norbert: should define line terms
15:20:52 <aphillip> >> 9. Section 5.1. The following might need attention: >>  >> The media type of Turtle is text/turtle. The content encoding of Turtle content is always UTF-8. Charset parameters on the mime type are required until such time as the text/ media type tree permits UTF-8 to be sent without a charset parameter. See section B Internet Media Type, File Extension and Macintosh File Type for the media type registration form.
15:25:00 <aphillip> okay as is
15:25:04 <aphillip> >> 10. Section 6. Refers to TURTLE documents as being encoded as UTF-8. In practice, UTF-8 is a serialization. The actually document should just be "a sequence of Unicode characters"  This probably needs to distinguish more clearly between processing and storage/transmission. For the former it's just a sequence of Unicode characters, for the latter it's UTF-8.
15:26:07 <aphillip> >> 11. Section 6.2. Says in part this: "continue to the end of line (marked by characters U+000D or U+000A)" which again makes assumptions about line terminators. Should there be a rule for line termination?  Such as this? http://ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1/#sec-7.3
15:26:52 <aphillip> >> 12. Section 6.4. The \u (lowercase u) syntax allows: >>  >> 	A Unicode codepoint in the range U+0 to U+FFFF inclusive corresponding to the value encoded by the four hexadecimal digits interpreted from most significant to least significant digit. >>  >> This is probably wrong, given that the surrogate code points fall into this range. No mention is made of surrogate pair handling.  And since there is a second form that can handle the complete Unicode charac
15:30:15 <aphillip> >> 13. Section 6.4 contains this Note: >>  >> -- >> %-encoded sequences are in the character range for IRIs and are explicitly allowed in local names. These appear as a '%' followed by two hex characters and represent that same sequence of three characters. These sequences are not decoded during processing. A term written as <http://a.example/%66oo-bar> in Turtle designates the IRI http://a.example/%66oo-bar and not IRI http://a.example/foo-bar. A term writte
15:32:43 <aphillip> richard; why do you think they do that?
15:33:04 <aphillip> addison: let's ask
15:33:18 <aphillip> >> 14. Section 6.5 (Grammar) defines LANGTAG far more permissively than BCP 47 does--even in its obsolete forms, to wit: >>  >> [144s] 	LANGTAG 	::= 	'@' [a-zA-Z]+ ('-' [a-zA-Z0-9]+)* >>  >> It would be better to define this at least in terms of BCP 47's "obs-language-tag" production: >>  >>        obs-language-tag = primary-subtag *( "-" subtag ) >>        primary-subtag   = 1*8ALPHA >>        subtag           = 1*8(ALPHA / DIGIT)  Since the RDF spec refers 
15:34:10 <aphillip> norbert: RDF already references LANGTAG in Section 2.1 of BCP 47
15:34:17 <aphillip> .. so why not use it?
15:35:31 <aphillip> addison: okay to refer to full definition
15:35:34 <aphillip> >> 15. Same section. PN_CHARS_BASE erases various Unicode ranges without explanation. This appears to be an attempt to eliminate combining marks and the surrogates. This probably isn't how to do this?
15:36:44 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-turtle-20120710/#grammar-production-PN_CHARS_BASE
15:38:57 <aphillip> richard: do we have a list of this kind?
15:39:02 <aphillip> ... use to refer to XML?
15:40:22 <aphillip> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr31/#Default_Identifier_Syntax
15:42:24 <aphillip> norbert: what are they really trying to accomplish here? just identifiers? or something else?
15:43:03 <aphillip> addison: not sure if UTR31 is too restrictive??
15:45:23 <aphillip> ... should we say "charmod-norm wrong"?
15:45:34 <aphillip> norbert: start with question: what are you trying to do here?
15:45:58 <aphillip> >> 16. Appendix B contains this note: >>  >> Encoding considerations: >>     The syntax of Turtle is expressed over code points in Unicode [UNICODE]. The encoding is always UTF-8 [UTF-8]. >>     Unicode code points may also be expressed using an \uXXXX (U+0 to U+FFFF) or \UXXXXXXXX syntax (for U+10000 onwards) where X is a hexadecimal digit [0-9A-Fa-f]
15:46:37 <aphillip> >> 17. Appendix B contains security considerations, that reference UTR#36 (good). Should there also be reference to UTS#39??
15:47:04 <aphillip> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr39/
15:47:52 <aphillip> >> 18. In "References", the Unicode reference is to Unicode 4.0, which is well out of date. The current version is 6.1, for example.
15:48:33 <aphillip> > W3C I18N Techniques: Developing specifications  > Referencing the Unicode Standard > http://www.w3.org/International/techniques/developing-specs#unicoderef
15:51:22 <aphillip> norbert: but a specific version may be needed for implementation consistency, e.g. for identifier syntax
15:51:34 <aphillip> addison: but not restrict code point usage to a specific version
15:52:31 <aphillip> richard: note that above link doesn't go directly to charmod
15:52:36 <aphillip> ... but to our techniques page
15:53:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:55:35 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: move TURTLE comments to tracker and send the comments to the WG using the usual process
15:55:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Move TURTLE comments to tracker and send the comments to the WG using the usual process [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-08-29].
15:56:20 <aphillip> richard: made a few changes in the process document, so take a look at it again
15:58:17 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
15:58:55 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: send TPAC registration reminder
15:58:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Send TPAC registration reminder [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-08-29].
16:00:18 <Zakim> -andrewc
16:00:18 <matial> Bye
16:00:18 <Zakim> -fsasaki
16:00:19 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
16:00:21 <Zakim> -Norbert
16:00:28 <Zakim> -koji
16:01:46 <andrewc> andrewc has left #i18n
16:02:35 <Zakim> -Richard
16:05:50 <Zakim> -matial
16:05:52 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
16:05:52 <Zakim> Attendees were Addison_Phillips, matial, Richard, fsasaki, Norbert, koji, andrewc
16:12:04 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:12:04 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:12:19 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:12:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:12:52 <aphillip> Present: Richard, Norbert, Andrew, Koji, Mati, Felix, Addison
16:13:32 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
16:13:32 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:13:32 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: move TURTLE comments to tracker and send the comments to the WG using the usual process [1]
16:13:32 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-irc#T15-55-35
16:13:32 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: send TPAC registration reminder [2]
16:13:32 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-i18n-irc#T15-58-55