14:43:30 RRSAgent has joined #html-media 14:43:30 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/21-html-media-irc 14:43:32 RRSAgent, make logs 185 14:43:32 Zakim has joined #html-media 14:43:34 Zakim, this will be 63342 14:43:34 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 14:43:35 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference 14:43:35 Date: 21 August 2012 14:44:18 adrianba has joined #html-media 14:44:41 zakim, ping me in 15 14:44:41 ok, matt 14:45:40 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Aug/0034.html 14:46:00 Chair: Adrian 14:55:33 plh has joined #html-media 14:57:53 zakim, dial matt-voip 14:57:54 ok, matt; the call is being made 14:57:54 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started 14:57:57 +Matt 14:58:01 zakim, mute me 14:58:02 sorry, matt, muting is not permitted when only one person is present 14:59:12 +[Microsoft] 14:59:20 zakim, [Microsoft] is me 14:59:20 +adrianba; got it 14:59:42 matt, you asked to be pinged at this time 14:59:42 ddorwin has joined #html-media 14:59:57 + +1.425.202.aaaa 15:00:10 Zakim, aaaa is me 15:00:10 +ddorwin; got it 15:00:14 bwatts has joined #html-media 15:00:51 zakim, mute me 15:00:51 Matt should now be muted 15:00:55 rrsagent, make logs public 15:00:58 Suzie has joined #html-media 15:01:04 acolwell has joined #html-media 15:01:14 +acolwell 15:01:25 + +1.818.560.aabb 15:01:28 + +1.206.861.aacc 15:01:49 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:01:49 On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, +1.818.560.aabb, +1.206.861.aacc 15:01:52 + +1.408.536.aadd 15:01:58 zakim, aacc is bwatts 15:01:58 +bwatts; got it 15:02:17 +[Microsoft] 15:02:31 + +1.613.491.aaee 15:02:43 MartinSoukup has joined #html-media 15:02:53 zakim, +1.818.560.3007 is me 15:02:53 sorry, Suzie, I do not recognize a party named '+1.818.560.3007' 15:03:05 zakim, 3007 is Suzie 15:03:05 sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named '3007' 15:03:11 zakim, aabb is Suzie 15:03:11 +Suzie; got it 15:04:03 Johnsim has joined #html-media 15:04:26 joesteele has joined #html-media 15:04:45 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:45 On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, +1.408.536.aadd, [Microsoft], +1.613.491.aaee 15:05:19 Clarke has joined #html-media 15:05:55 zakim, [Microsoft] is me 15:05:55 +Johnsim; got it 15:05:59 ScribeNick: johnsim 15:05:59 zakim, aaee is MartinSoukup 15:05:59 +MartinSoukup; got it 15:06:09 +Clarke 15:06:16 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:06:16 On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, +1.408.536.aadd, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke 15:06:47 + +44.303.040.aaff 15:06:57 duncanr has joined #html-media 15:06:59 Zakim, aadd is joesteele 15:06:59 +joesteele; got it 15:07:09 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:07:09 On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, joesteele, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke, +44.303.040.aaff 15:07:25 zakim, aaff is duncanr 15:07:25 +duncanr; got it 15:07:30 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:07:30 On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, joesteele, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke, duncanr 15:07:59 TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe 15:08:07 completed 15:08:23 TOPIC: previous meeting minutes 15:08:54 No comments on minutes - completed 15:09:03 TOPIC: Review of action items 15:09:41 Three overdue action items which are further down in the agenda - 15:10:19 TOPIC: base line document 15:10:31 whitech has joined #html-media 15:10:44 Baseline documents and Bugzilla information 15:11:22 David: as far as i know it is complete (EME), but since no review, marked as work as progress. and clear key 15:11:35 does not work at all until we complete action item 15:11:52 and to provide link to old draft to prevent confusion 15:12:25 ACTION-1? 15:12:25 ACTION-1 -- David Dorwin to and editors to implement proposal 2b by revising EME specification -- due 2012-08-17 -- CLOSED 15:12:25 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/1 15:12:30 TOPIC: Action from the previous meeting 15:12:51 Adrian: this is complete and awaiting review 15:13:07 ACTION-2? 15:13:07 ACTION-2 -- Mark Watson to propose a resolution to bug 17673 -- due 2012-08-17 -- OPEN 15:13:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/2 15:13:25 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673 15:13:41 ddorwin has joined #html-media 15:13:53 + +1.215.286.aagg 15:13:59 Adrian: this is about how to update the spec to support --- to describe how init data will work for ISOBFF 15:14:32 Mark is not on the call today because he is traveling. We have had several discussions about this bug, and we wanted to sort this out and resolve before resolving clear key, which is the next action 15:14:59 I updated this bug and assigned to Johnsim who has been putting together the proposal text for this bug and the clear key which is the next action 15:15:28 johnsim: there are two different sources of initdata in general, maybe 3 if you slice it finer 15:15:36 ... the media and the app 15:15:56 ... for example MPD might contain initdata for one key system 15:16:27 Mark_Vickers has joined #html-media 15:16:30 ... also in ISO BMFF there is a PSSH box which contains initdata for different key systems 15:16:38 ... especially if common encryption is used 15:16:48 ... so you can have multiple from both places 15:17:08 ... the initdata from the needkey may need to be combined with the initdata from the app 15:17:15 ... we have several ideas about how to do that 15:17:53 ... the other factor to be taken into consideration is if common encryption is being used which may have several initdata blocks that you may want to replace 15:18:08 ... for example you may want to replace the location of the key (discussed in MPEG DASH) 15:18:20 ... these are some of the scenarios that need to be accommodated 15:18:58 joesteele: you're saying the app could modify the initdata? 15:19:24 johnsim: let's say the needkey includes some initdata but the app knows it doesn't want to use that data for one system 15:19:30 ... but wants to replace it 15:19:55 ... our thinking is that you should be able to provide the app specific data prepended to indicate that this is the preferred data for this acquisition 15:20:19 ... we know the scenario occurs, not sure if this is the right solution 15:21:52 ddorwin: why prepend rather than just including that? 15:22:33 johnsim: that's one idea - this is how to say one PSSH box should be used and not another without having to crack open the initdata 15:23:55 ... it's possible to parse through the data but we'd prefer not to do that 15:24:34 adrian: you get a needkey event, because the media contains multiple pssh, passes the concatenated pssh boxes as the init data 15:24:49 meanwhile the app sees some init data used by one of the key systems 15:25:02 +markw 15:25:28 without parsing through each system id it is, you can use the app provided one prepended, so that you could prioritize the app one over the media data or the other way around. 15:26:12 + +1.760.533.aahh 15:27:21 action-2 due in 1 week 15:27:21 ACTION-2 Propose a resolution to bug 17673 due date now in 1 week 15:27:46 pladd has joined #html-media 15:28:31 ACTION-3? 15:28:31 ACTION-3 -- Adrian Bateman to propose resolution to bug 17682 -- due 2012-08-17 -- OPEN 15:28:31 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/3 15:28:32 Clarify scenarios where you need to replace entire init data and when you need to update a subset of the init data 15:28:45 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682 15:29:23 Adrian: clarifying the Clear Key, how Keys and Key IDs are associated 15:29:25 MikeSmith_ has joined #html-media 15:29:55 David: original 0.1 had an add key parameter, and a key id parameter 15:30:07 init data parameter was redundent with key request 15:30:25 removed init data paramters but now there is no pair of parameters for key id and key in clear key 15:30:37 we need mappings from key id to key 15:30:50 Joe Steele: what is the parameter 15:30:59 David: just key, which could be a license 15:31:40 Adrian: why wold this be, create session wit the init data, with the resulting session object, and pass in the key, two consequtive calls rather than one 15:32:38 Adrian: you call "createsession" on the media keys object, and that gives you a media key session object, when you call you pass in the init data 15:33:21 when you get the media key session, you call add key and you pass in the key in the same way, but that restricts clear key to one key per session, which is different form other systems 15:34:51 johnsim: in key rotation, would that be one session or multiple sessions? 15:35:19 David: one key for ten minutes, i think that should be separate sessions, playing something for a day, don't want 500 keys sitting around 15:37:40 David: each time you wanted a key, that would be a new session, and then you would destroy the old one at some point. 15:39:06 David: need clarity on key rotation scenarios and make sure we support them .... it would be nice if the more common key rotation scenarios are supported by clear key 15:40:12 adrian: single key per session, second, we need to examine scenario where multiple keys are need (e.g. key rotation), if common need to work for single session 15:40:43 joesteele: multiple keys - one for audio and video - a non-rotation issue we have with clear key 15:41:10 markw: adaptive bitrates using different keys is another scenario. 15:42:34 adrian: the question are those a single session or multiple session when we look at the media key object, session id, single key negotiation withthe license server. 15:44:12 Adrian: diff keys audio/video, diff keys based on bitrates, multiple needkey events, and each would be a separate session, 15:45:53 Mark: anything is possible, CDM can match keys with lienses, keys needed for media, whether a new session is needed, we haven't you need a separate session for each key 15:47:29 + +1.858.485.aaii 15:47:34 Adrian: the current model assumes a single init data corressponds to a single session 15:47:49 there is no way to add more init data to a session 15:48:35 mark: it think that is okay. audio and video file with init data, application doesn't know if those init data contain information - might know how the content provider created the content 15:49:03 - +1.215.286.aagg 15:50:01 Adrian: propose text change for Clear Key case for single key per session, and maybe we can have more discussion whether that is sufficient once we have synced everyting back into the spec and we can review it 15:50:14 ACTION-3 due in 1 week 15:50:14 ACTION-3 Propose resolution to bug 17682 due date now in 1 week 15:50:15 Adrian: extending this action for a week as well 15:50:22 ACTION-4? 15:50:22 ACTION-4 -- David Dorwin to propose a solution for bug 17672 -- due 2012-08-17 -- OPEN 15:50:22 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/4 15:50:32 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17672 15:51:14 David: webm version of the ISO action #2. I have not made any progress on the text, though it is coming together (WebM for encryption). Request two weeks 15:51:15 ACTION-4 due in 2 weeks 15:51:15 ACTION-4 Propose a solution for bug 17672 due date now in 2 weeks 15:51:40 TOPIC: Key Release 15:51:51 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0070.html 15:52:10 Adrian: last meeting, mentioned need for more discussion, David sent this mail and Mark responded, so question is 15:52:37 Adrian: what state is the spec compared to these two emails? do we currently describe what is mentioned in the two emails or work needed on the spec 15:53:14 David: the spec has not been updated per the emails and object oriented design has big impact. Removed all but the introductory text because incompatible, so we need to go back and fill that in 15:53:36 David: Still some more decisions to be made first 15:54:02 Adrian: is this something we should push for the agenda on the next meeting and have some discussion ahead of that? 15:54:25 Mark: i think so, now that we have the object oriented updates, some ideas in the email thread, but we need to work through that 15:54:39 Adrian: could you follow-up on your previous mail and suggest changes ? 15:55:19 ACTION: mark to follow-up on Key Release mail thread now that the OO changes have been made - discuss on next call 15:55:20 Created ACTION-5 - Follow-up on Key Release mail thread now that the OO changes have been made - discuss on next call [on Mark Watson - due 2012-08-28]. 15:56:39 TOPIC: Encrypted media Extensions bugs 15:57:15 Adrian: given the discussion on this call we still have some work to do for things on the top of the list, make sense for editors to get together in advance of the next call and triage the bugs 15:57:35 Adrian: make sure they are still valid, maybe some can be closed, maybe some are simple and we can just action them. 15:57:52 Adrian: we will try to follow-up on that before the next meeting 15:58:09 TOPIC: any other business 15:58:35 Joe Steele: understanding, every other week? 15:58:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:58:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/21-html-media-minutes.html matt 15:58:56 rrsagent, make logs public 15:59:01 Adrian: alternating between EME and MSE - trying to keep as predictable as possible. 15:59:24 zakim, unmute me 15:59:24 Matt should no longer be muted 15:59:37 - +1.760.533.aahh 15:59:52 Adrian: Chair and scribe for next meeting - Paul back - who will volunteer for scribe? 16:00:05 Joe Steele: will scribe next meeting 16:00:20 TOPIC: Adjourn 16:00:21 zakim, drop me 16:00:21 Matt is being disconnected 16:00:23 -Matt 16:00:25 - +1.858.485.aaii 16:00:27 -joesteele 16:00:28 -adrianba 16:00:28 -markw 16:00:29 duncanr has left #html-media 16:00:30 -Suzie 16:00:30 -Clarke 16:00:31 -acolwell 16:00:32 -MartinSoukup 16:00:33 ddorwin has left #html-media 16:00:34 -duncanr 16:00:34 -Johnsim 16:00:37 -bwatts 16:00:53 -ddorwin 16:00:54 HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended 16:00:54 Attendees were Matt, adrianba, +1.425.202.aaaa, ddorwin, acolwell, +1.818.560.aabb, +1.206.861.aacc, +1.408.536.aadd, bwatts, +1.613.491.aaee, Suzie, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke, 16:00:54 ... +44.303.040.aaff, joesteele, duncanr, +1.215.286.aagg, markw, +1.760.533.aahh, +1.858.485.aaii 16:01:07 rrsagent, make minutes 16:01:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/21-html-media-minutes.html adrianba 16:02:27 adrianba has left #html-media