IRC log of ua on 2012-08-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
14:55:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-irc
14:55:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
14:55:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
14:55:12 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:55:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:55:13 [trackbot]
Date: 16 August 2012
16:41:40 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
16:42:04 [kford]
trackbot, start meeting
16:42:07 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:42:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:42:09 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:42:10 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:42:10 [trackbot]
Date: 16 August 2012
16:49:29 [kford]
agenda+ Review any proposals sent to list
16:49:31 [kford]
Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9
16:49:32 [kford]
Agenda+ 1.1.5 - Need IER
16:49:34 [kford]
Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html)
16:49:35 [kford]
Agenda+ What’s left to do
16:50:00 [kford]
Regrets: Jim
16:50:15 [kford]
Chair: Kelly Ford, Jim Allan
16:50:21 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:50:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford
16:57:03 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
16:57:52 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:57:59 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:58:15 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kfoooooooooooooooooor
16:58:15 [Zakim]
+kfoooooooooooooooooor; got it
16:58:43 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
16:58:43 [Zakim]
sorry, kford, I do not recognize a party named 'microsoft'
16:58:54 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
16:59:29 [kford]
zakim, kfoooooooooooooooooor is kford
16:59:29 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:01:53 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
17:02:50 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
17:03:17 [Jan]
zakim, code?
17:03:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:03:26 [Zakim]
+??P7
17:03:30 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:03:45 [Jan]
zakim, ??P7 is really Jan
17:03:45 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
17:09:12 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
17:09:59 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:09:59 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:10:01 [Zakim]
1. Review any proposals sent to list [from kford]
17:10:01 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:10:01 [Zakim]
3. 1.1.5 - Need IER [from kford]
17:10:01 [Zakim]
4. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from kford]
17:10:02 [Zakim]
5. What’s left to do [from kford]
17:10:28 [kford]
agenda+ Next Publication
17:10:42 [kford]
zakim, take up item 6
17:10:42 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Next Publication" taken up [from kford]
17:11:02 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:11:39 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:12:25 [KimPatch]
Kelly: published another editor's draft earlier this week, discussion on putting out another working draft -- any objections
17:12:39 [kford]
Resolved: Group agrees to publish another working draft.
17:12:59 [kford]
zakim, close item 6
17:12:59 [Zakim]
agendum 6, Next Publication, closed
17:13:00 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:13:00 [Zakim]
1. Review any proposals sent to list [from kford]
17:13:11 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
17:13:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Review any proposals sent to list" taken up [from kford]
17:13:36 [kford]
No new proposals.
17:13:42 [kford]
zakim, close item 1
17:13:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Review any proposals sent to list, closed
17:13:43 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:13:43 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:14:10 [kford]
zakim, take up item 3
17:14:10 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "1.1.5 - Need IER" taken up [from kford]
17:14:23 [jeanne]
agenda+ HTML Media Capture
17:14:26 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:14:26 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
17:14:42 [Zakim]
+??P10
17:15:03 [sharper]
zakim, ??P10 is sharper
17:15:03 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:15:45 [KimPatch]
Kelly: why don't we spend a couple minutes working on it
17:16:45 [KimPatch]
Greg: resize and reposition -- it's primarily about people with visual impairments, correct? people affected would be people who might need to change the text to make it easier to read, reduce the amount of distance between the video and the alternative in order to avoid having to shift gaze too much
17:16:46 [kford_]
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17:17:34 [KimPatch]
Jan: it's primarily for people with low vision who simply needs those things to be bigger in situations where the built-in magnifications can't handle it
17:17:43 [KimPatch]
Greg: also repositioning
17:18:05 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: if you have to resize the video
17:18:46 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: I think we had to do above below left right to not cover the video
17:19:07 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: some people just want larger captions, but once you get larger and larger you cover up more of the video space
17:20:13 [Greg]
The intent of this success criterion is to allow users to adjust the size of captions, sign language, and other visual alternatives so they are large enough to be a comfortable reading size, and in most cases to allow them to do so without obscuring the primary media.
17:20:43 [Greg]
The intent of this success criterion is to allow users to adjust the size of captions, sign language, and other visual alternatives so they are large enough to be a comfortable reading size, without obscuring the primary media.
17:21:37 [KimPatch]
Jan: we should have something in that addresses the distance to gaze -- if text of the top you want the captions near the top so they can be closer together
17:22:43 [KimPatch]
Jan: the intent of the B condition. People need flexibility to position the captions in different places because the information content in the video can be in different places -- can be waiting at the top or the bottom and usually you are going to want the captions position to limit the amount of gaze back and forth
17:23:13 [KimPatch]
Greg: if the video were at the top of the window and the captions way down at the status bar that would be suboptimal you want the text in close proximity
17:24:04 [KimPatch]
Jan: they need to be above, below to the right to the last overlapping because videos differ, and you're trying to watch the video and see the captions that are conveying the audio material, but you don't want to miss the visual material. So if the video you're watching has a lot of on-screen text and it appears at the top of the screen -- want the captions at the top of the screen to see...
17:24:05 [KimPatch]
...you can read both equally, same with the bottom so once again they are close together
17:24:25 [Greg]
Users may reposition the alternative so they can be placed in close proximity to the most important portion of the main media, to make it easier to watch both at the same time.
17:24:31 [KimPatch]
Kelly: but if we say it's also the intent of this success criteria to allow users to configure video and alternative displays for the easiest readability possible
17:25:20 [Jan]
The intent of the repositioning requirement is for users to have the flexibility to place captions in various posityions depending on the visual content of the video window...
17:26:12 [AllanJ]
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17:26:17 [Jan]
For example if the video frequently includes on-screen text near the top of the video then the captions will be easier to read if they are located above the video.
17:27:32 [KimPatch]
Jan: I like Greg's for the first line in my example on the end of it
17:27:54 [KimPatch]
Greg: then we can repeat the example as a real example
17:28:02 [Greg]
Users may reposition the alternative so they can be placed in close proximity to the most important portion of the main media, to make it easier to watch both at the same time. For example if the video frequently includes on-screen text near the top of the video then the captions will be easier to read if they are located above the video.
17:31:43 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:31:44 [Greg]
Depending on what he's watching, Maximilian will adjust the position of his captions. When he's watching a sporting even with a dashboard displaying statistics at the top, he positions the captions immediately above the top so the captions are close to the statistics.
17:32:45 [Greg]
Maximilian will adjust the position of his captions depending on what he's watching. When watching a sporting event with a dashboard displaying statistics at the top, he positions the captions immediately above the top so the captions are close to the statistics.
17:33:55 [Jan]
However, when he watches a movie, he typically positions the captions so that they overlap the video frame near the bottom.
17:33:56 [Greg]
When he's watching financial news with a stock ticker along the bottom, he moves the captions to be immediately below the ticker.
17:34:26 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: maybe we can use Jim as an example
17:34:28 [KimPatch]
changing the orientation of a video, where you are watching it on an iphone
17:38:16 [Greg]
When Tom is watching narrow-aspect video on a wides-aspect screen, he moves the window displaying sign language interpretation to the side, allowing the primary video to take up the entire height of the screen without the interpretation getting in the way.
17:39:56 [KimPatch]
Jim: I tested on Netflix -- doesn't have the option of putting them on the side, even when I went to the portrait view the video narrowed, the captions remain at the bottom
17:40:37 [KimPatch]
Greg: including something about rotating the display on a mobile device would make sense
17:40:46 [KimPatch]
Jim: do we want the browsers to do that or the hardware
17:41:04 [KimPatch]
Greg: we want the browsers to allow the users to move it regardless of any automatic -- you don't want to guess wrong as to what the user wants
17:41:22 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: particularly users with limited mobility who may be only able to hold the tablet with one hand
17:43:29 [Greg]
Raymond only had one hand, so he positions thec captions so that they're not covered by the hand he's using to hold his tablet.
17:43:34 [Greg]
(Thanks, Jeanne)
17:43:57 [Greg]
s/had/has/
17:44:03 [kford]
regrets- Jim
17:44:17 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:44:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford
17:44:19 [Greg]
Raymond only has one hand, so he positions captions so they're not covered by the hand he's using to hold his tablet.
17:45:04 [jeanne]
q+ to ask what should the term be when there are no related resources.
17:45:11 [KimPatch]
Greg: any other examples alternate media
17:46:28 [kford]
Present: Jim, Greg, Kelly, Jeanne, Kim, Simon, Jeanne
17:46:31 [KimPatch]
Discussion about what to use to indicate there are no resources at this point
17:46:59 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:46:59 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:47:01 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:47:01 [Zakim]
3. 1.1.5 - Need IER [from kford]
17:47:01 [Zakim]
4. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from kford]
17:47:01 [Zakim]
5. What’s left to do [from kford]
17:47:02 [Zakim]
7. HTML Media Capture [from jeanne]
17:47:09 [KimPatch]
Decided to use NA
17:47:23 [kford]
zakim, close item 3
17:47:23 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, kford
17:47:25 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to replace To be written in Related Resources to N/A
17:47:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-755 - Replace To be written in Related Resources to N/A [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-08-23].
17:47:29 [jeanne]
ack jea
17:47:29 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to ask what should the term be when there are no related resources.
17:47:40 [kford]
zakim, close item 3
17:47:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3, 1.1.5 - Need IER, closed
17:47:41 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:47:41 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:48:06 [kford]
zakim, take up item 7
17:48:06 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "HTML Media Capture" taken up [from jeanne]
17:48:32 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-media-capture-20120712/
17:48:50 [jeanne]
PF comments -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2012Aug/0003.html
17:49:37 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: e-mail accessibility from the user point of view could be an issue. If people could take a look at sometime this week we can pull them together and take a look in more detail next week
17:49:58 [jeanne]
s/e-mail accessibility/accessibility
17:50:21 [jeanne]
zakim, close this item
17:50:21 [Zakim]
agendum 7 closed
17:50:22 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:50:22 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:51:15 [kford]
zakim, close item 7
17:51:15 [Zakim]
agendum 7, HTML Media Capture, closed
17:51:16 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:51:16 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:51:33 [kford]
zakim, take up item 4
17:51:33 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html)" taken up [from kford]
17:52:01 [kford]
kford will send mail on this one.
17:52:11 [kford]
zakim, close item 4\
17:52:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close item 4\', kford
17:52:16 [kford]
zakim, close item 4
17:52:16 [Zakim]
agendum 4, 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html), closed
17:52:20 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:52:20 [Zakim]
2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford]
17:52:29 [kford]
zakim, take up item 2
17:52:29 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9" taken up [from kford]
17:52:45 [kford]
This is on me, not quite done, should be sending to the list shortly.
17:52:56 [kford]
zakim, close item 2
17:52:56 [Zakim]
agendum 2, 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9, closed
17:52:58 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:52:58 [Zakim]
5. What’s left to do [from kford]
17:53:09 [kford]
zakim, take up item 5
17:53:09 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "What’s left to do" taken up [from kford]
17:54:07 [jeanne]
the July 31 email -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0032.html
17:54:13 [kford]
Jeanne will send updated list to the list when she has addressed work from last week.
17:55:21 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: location in hierarchy and configuring elements for structural navigation -- had discussion but wanted to wait for Simon before we finished it action items 500, 545 and issue 87
17:57:48 [KimPatch]
Simon: reading it... was Greg going to do something on this
17:58:50 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
17:58:57 [KimPatch]
Simon: if we want to go on I can piece this together
17:59:33 [KimPatch]
Jeanne: only thing left on the list is the big issue of global conformance. Other people who have opinions on that -- need to get some background before we start on that
18:00:03 [kford]
zakim, close item 5
18:00:03 [Zakim]
agendum 5, What’s left to do, closed
18:00:05 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
18:00:39 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
18:00:45 [KimPatch]
Kelly: next steps, publishing working draft, Simon, others sent to list
18:01:50 [Zakim]
-kford
18:01:52 [Zakim]
-Jan
18:01:59 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford
18:04:13 [kford]
Present+Jan
18:04:20 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford
18:05:00 [kford]
Present-Jeanne
18:05:08 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford
18:05:28 [AllanJ]
clos4 qction-733
18:05:47 [kford]
present+ Jeanne
18:05:49 [AllanJ]
close action-733
18:05:53 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford
18:07:05 [kford]
zakim, please part
18:07:05 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were kford, Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, sharper, Jim_Allan
18:07:05 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:07:10 [kford]
rrsagent, please part
18:07:10 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-actions.rdf :
18:07:10 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to replace To be written in Related Resources to N/A [1]
18:07:10 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-irc#T17-47-25