15:02:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:02:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-irc
15:02:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:02:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 62 minutes ago
15:02:09 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:02:09 <trackbot> Date: 16 August 2012
15:02:18 <MikeSmith> zakim, call Mike
15:02:18 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:02:49 <MikeSmith> zakim, call Mike
15:02:49 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:03:01 <MikeSmith> wow
15:03:04 <MikeSmith> buzzing noise
15:03:29 <JF> zakim, whos noisy
15:03:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'whos noisy', JF
15:03:32 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
15:03:32 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:03:34 <Zakim> -Rich
15:03:47 <janina> zakim, who's noisy?
15:03:49 <MichaelC> zakim, mute ??P7
15:03:49 <Zakim> ??P7 should now be muted
15:03:52 <Zakim> +Rich
15:03:58 <Zakim> janina, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Judy (14%), ??P4 (46%), ??P7 (14%), Mike (26%), Cooper (61%)
15:04:43 <Stevef> 41#
15:04:54 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Léonie_Watson
15:04:54 <Zakim> +Léonie_Watson; got it
15:05:42 <Stevef> zakim, P7 is SteveF
15:05:42 <Zakim> sorry, Stevef, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
15:05:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P7 is Steve_Faulkner
15:05:52 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
15:06:00 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
15:06:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:07:19 <MichaelC> zakim, IPCaller is Steve_Faulkner
15:07:19 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
15:07:53 <MichaelC> zakim, mute Steve
15:07:53 <Zakim> Steve_Faulkner should now be muted
15:08:03 <lwatson> lwatson has joined #html-a11y
15:08:14 <lwatson> scribe: Léonie Watson
15:08:52 <lwatson> zakim, next item
15:08:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Issue-31B (Sec. 4.8) Analysis Report" taken up [from See"Resource: Draft Alt Report" below]
15:09:47 <MikeSmith> Topic: agenda+	text subteam report http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-text-minutes.html
15:09:56 <MikeSmith> Zakim, clear agenda
15:09:56 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:10:10 <MikeSmith> agenda+	text subteam report http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-text-minutes.html
15:10:10 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Issue-30  (longdesc), Aug 17 deadline, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Aug/0152.html
15:10:12 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Issue-204 (ARIA and hidden elements), formal objection
15:10:13 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Issue-206 (alt exemption for generators), status
15:10:15 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Issue-31b (guidance on alt text in the HTML5 spec)
15:10:16 <MikeSmith> agenda+	TPAC registration - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0244.html
15:10:17 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Responsive images
15:10:18 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Other Business
15:10:19 <MikeSmith> agenda+	Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:11:22 <lwatson> JB: Focus is on 204, and the fact there are issues that need to be cleared before we can focus on 30.
15:12:40 <lwatson> JB: I'll be writing a request to extend the August deadline for the issue 30 proposals.
15:13:27 <lwatson> JB: My understanding is that there may be a formal objection to issue 204.
15:13:51 <lwatson> JF: I've filed a formal objection.
15:14:37 <MikeSmith> q?
15:15:41 <lwatson> RS: I haven't checked the current decision, but the lack of accessibility knowledge amongst the chairs continues to be a problem.
15:16:14 <lwatson> JB: It's something W3C management is becoming increasingly aware of.
15:16:31 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:16:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
15:17:10 <lwatson> RS: Will we discuss this decision on Monday's call?
15:17:25 <lwatson> JS: Yes. 
15:18:19 <lwatson> RS: I met with advocacy groups within the Australian government, and there is a lot of concern about the handling of accessibility by the HTML WG.
15:18:48 <lwatson> JB: Feedback is always welcome.
15:19:50 <lwatson> JS: I'll have a draft proposal we can discuss on Monday.
15:20:03 <JF> Q?
15:20:32 <MichaelC> q- ??P7
15:21:01 <lwatson> JB: Doe anyone on the call have any objections to the points discussed?
15:21:41 <lwatson> s/Doe anyone/does anyone/
15:22:08 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:22:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
15:22:51 <lwatson> RS: Will you be on the ARIA call on Monday Judy?
15:23:12 <lwatson> JB: That may not be possible, but Janina will be there as PF chair.
15:23:54 <MikeSmith> q?
15:24:15 <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
15:25:26 <MikeSmith> zakim, take up item 3
15:25:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue-204 (ARIA and hidden elements), formal objection" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:26:14 <lwatson> MS: John has filed a formal objection.
15:27:11 <lwatson> JB: The subsequent discussion is at least partially useful, for example around the implementation that doesn't exist and can't therefore be tested.
15:27:16 <Stevef> which implementation?
15:28:03 <lwatson> JB: Plus some discussion around cursor behaviour and whether it would drop into a black hole.
15:28:16 <JF> Q+
15:28:35 <Zakim> +Laura_Carlson
15:29:59 <lwatson> RS: The frustration is having 20 years of experience, and having to argue with people who have little experience of accessibility at all.
15:30:46 <lwatson> JB: We have a co-chair who is involved in one of the alternate proposals, which also presents an interesting situation.
15:31:24 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
15:31:50 <MikeSmith> q?
15:31:56 <MikeSmith> ack JF
15:33:32 <lwatson> JF: Ben HL has made the point that ARIA allows some of the behaviours we're now pushing back against. Rich, could you look at his comments?
15:34:33 <lwatson> RS: This is another WG working on specifications under the remit of other WGs.
15:35:12 <lwatson> JF: Agreed, comments on ARIA need to be raised in the right place.
15:35:34 <lwatson> RS: W3C has processes. If there is an issue with ARIA it can be raised as we focus on 1.1.
15:36:54 <lwatson> JB: There are two things. One is comments about the ARIA spec, the other is comments made about ARIA in relation to this issue.
15:38:06 <lwatson> JF: The process is being hijacked. Meanwhile, we need to support each other with regards to this specific issue. Charles Pritchard has contributed some valuable input, which was welcome.
15:38:44 <lwatson> RS: It's going to be difficult to find time to review Ben's comments.
15:38:52 <Stevef> still works for yahoo as far as I know
15:39:23 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
15:40:36 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
15:43:26 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up next item
15:43:26 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MikeSmith
15:43:30 <MikeSmith> q?
15:43:35 <MikeSmith> ack Judy
15:43:40 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up next item
15:43:40 <Zakim> agendum 1. "text subteam report http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-text-minutes.html" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:43:53 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop item 1
15:43:53 <Zakim> agendum 1, text subteam report http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-text-minutes.html, dropped
15:43:57 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop item 2
15:43:57 <Zakim> agendum 2, Issue-30  (longdesc), Aug 17 deadline, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Aug/0152.html, dropped
15:44:00 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop item 3
15:44:00 <Zakim> agendum 3, Issue-204 (ARIA and hidden elements), formal objection, dropped
15:44:02 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up next item
15:44:02 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Issue-206 (alt exemption for generators), status" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:45:03 <lwatson> MS: I'm working on a change proposal, but it may not be done this week. There are already three CPs out there.
15:46:16 <lwatson> MS: Would like to reach agreement with Henry, one is UI behaviour of the validator, and the other is what the name should be. We don't yet have agreement about adding an attribute, never mind its name.
15:47:18 <MikeSmith> q?
15:47:59 <lwatson> JS: On the HTML WG calllast week someone asked whether it was nescessary to resolve the other proposals first.
15:48:09 <lwatson> s/calllast/call last/
15:48:47 <lwatson> MS: It'll depend on the call for concensus. 
15:49:34 <lwatson> JB: The TF actively encourages the chairs to do this, not just put it forward as an option.
15:50:34 <lwatson> MS: I'll make that clear on the call today.
15:51:21 <Mike5> Zakim, take up next item
15:51:21 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Issue-31b (guidance on alt text in the HTML5 spec)" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:51:44 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
15:53:15 <lwatson> JB: There was work nearly completed, but the ripples from the 204 discussion has had an impact so it's still in progress.
15:53:27 <lwatson> s/has had/have had/
15:55:02 <lwatson> JB: The chairs requested the history thread, which they received. 
15:55:21 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up next item
15:55:21 <Zakim> agendum 6. "TPAC registration - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0244.html" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:55:47 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up next item
15:55:47 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, MikeSmith
15:55:50 <lwatson> MS: At some point we'll need to look at our TPAC agenda.
15:55:54 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up next item
15:55:54 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, MikeSmith
15:56:02 <MikeSmith> Zakim, close item 6
15:56:02 <Zakim> agendum 6, TPAC registration - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0244.html, closed
15:56:04 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:56:05 <Zakim> 7. Responsive images [from MikeSmith]
15:57:03 <lwatson> MS: The chairs have been discussing how to provide a home for the CP that came from the responsive images CG. I'll post it to space belonging to the HTML WG.
15:57:23 <lwatson> JS: That's HTML.Next?
15:57:30 <lwatson> MS: I'm unclear on that myself.
15:58:50 <lwatson> MS: From the conversations I've had with the chairs, there is interest in making the HTML5 spec a stable spec.
15:59:32 <lwatson> MS: Features without browser implementation ought to be in HTML.Next. So adding a whole new feature seems unlikely in a stable spec.
15:59:44 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
16:00:53 <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
16:00:56 <MikeSmith> q?
16:01:09 <Zakim> -Léonie_Watson
16:01:10 <Zakim> -Mike
16:01:10 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:01:11 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:01:11 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:01:12 <Zakim> -Rich
16:01:14 <Zakim> -Judy
16:01:16 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:01:18 <janina> janina has left #html-a11y
16:01:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Judy, John_Foliot, Rich, Laura_Carlson, Mike, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, Steve_Faulkner
16:03:05 <lwatson> Present: Janina Sajka, John Foliot, Steve Faulkner, Michael Cooper, Rich Schwerdtfeger, Léonie Watson, Judy Brewer, Mike Smith, Laura Carlson
16:03:21 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
16:04:20 <lwatson> Chair: Mike Smith
16:04:26 <lwatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-html-a11y-minutes.html lwatson
16:05:06 <lwatson> zakim, please part
16:05:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:05:12 <lwatson> rrsagent, please part
16:05:12 <RRSAgent> I see no action items