14:50:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:50:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-irc
14:50:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:50:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:50:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:50:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:50:10 <trackbot> Date: 15 August 2012
14:50:31 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0075.html
14:50:40 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:50:44 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:50:46 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:50:59 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:51:19 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
14:52:06 <aphillip> agenda+: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0077.html
14:52:29 <aphillip> agenda+: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Aug/0009.html
14:52:40 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:53:11 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18n
14:54:52 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
14:57:39 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
14:58:20 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has joined #i18n
14:58:45 <DavidClarke> I can't phone in today, and may vanish at any time
14:59:20 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:26 <Zakim> +??P2
14:59:38 <matial> zakim, ??p2 is me
14:59:38 <Zakim> +matial; got it
15:00:03 <Zakim> +??P3
15:00:05 <Zakim> -matial
15:00:07 <Zakim> +matial
15:00:23 <Zakim> -??P3
15:00:41 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:00:44 <Zakim> -matial
15:00:45 <Zakim> +matial
15:01:08 <Zakim> +??P4
15:01:14 <aphillip> zakim, I am Addison_Phillips
15:01:14 <Zakim> ok, aphillip, I now associate you with Addison_Phillips
15:01:52 <Zakim> +??P5
15:02:23 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
15:02:23 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:02:25 <Zakim> +Richard
15:03:44 <Zakim> +Norbert
15:03:49 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:05:01 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda and Minutes
15:05:31 <aphillip>  Topic: Action Items
15:06:01 <joconner> joconner has joined #i18n
15:06:52 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:07:19 <aphillip> close ACTION-143
15:07:19 <trackbot> ACTION-143 Convey to ITS feedback about considering using of extended filtering in ITS 2.0 closed
15:07:37 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:07:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:08:05 <aphillip> Mati: seen summary of UTC meeting
15:08:12 <aphillip> ... and there were decisions about bidi
15:08:25 <aharon> aharon has joined #i18n
15:08:26 <aphillip> ... seem to have accepted isolation characters proposed by Aharon
15:08:42 <aphillip> ... think it's a good thing
15:09:03 <aphillip> ... not be in Unicode until next relase (6.2??)
15:09:09 <joconner1> joconner1 has joined #i18n
15:09:22 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aaaa
15:09:26 <aphillip> ... can work with HTML/CSS to synchronize features with the characters
15:09:33 <r12a> +1 to that
15:10:03 <Zakim> + +1.650.646.aabb
15:10:26 <aphillip> q+ Norbert
15:13:07 <r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Aug/0001.html
15:13:28 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft nminutes', aphillip.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:13:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:13:45 <aphillip> ack Norbert
15:14:00 <aphillip> Norbert: new draft of ECMAScript I18N specification
15:14:04 <aphillip> ... no big changes
15:14:11 <aphillip> ... changed ref to v21 of LDML
15:14:25 <Norbert> http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=globalization:specification_drafts
15:14:50 <aharon> I can give exact details on unicode + css bidi isolation, if there is time
15:16:14 <aphillip> John: asking for feedback on ES proposal?
15:16:18 <aphillip> Norbert: yes
15:16:44 <aphillip> John: asking for internal feedback and will also provide personal feedback
15:17:50 <aphillip> chair: norbert to post note to winter list about ES I18N
15:18:03 <aphillip> Topic: Translations of site
15:18:17 <aphillip> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Aug/0009.html
15:18:38 <aphillip> richard: thinking we should get rid of out-of-date translations
15:18:44 <aphillip> ... outlined a proposal
15:18:52 <aphillip> ... went through to see what's out of date
15:18:56 <aphillip> ... here's a list:
15:18:58 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Translations
15:19:34 <aphillip> richard: normally mention changes on translators list
15:19:43 <aphillip> ... if small change, might retrofit translation
15:20:00 <aphillip> ... or place english in place temporarily
15:20:09 <aphillip> ... but more substantive change, the translation is "at risk"
15:20:22 <aphillip> ... and we give a period of time (a month?) to get to the translation
15:20:30 <aphillip> ... or we remove translation or link thereto
15:20:51 <aphillip> ... auto-banner appears for out of date translations
15:21:00 <aphillip> norbert: sounds good
15:21:04 <aphillip> addison: +1
15:21:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:22:47 <DavidClarke> If the translation has been allocated to someone to update, might it be a good idea to add a line like "translation being updated by ..., due ...."
15:23:42 <aphillip> richard: don't want to go that far befcause of maintenance pain
15:24:12 <aphillip> Topic: RDF, NFC, and HTML5
15:24:16 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0077.html
15:24:38 <fsasaki> <h2>Welcome to Dublin in Ireland!</h2>
15:24:48 <aphillip> felix: ITS working on this
15:24:57 <fsasaki> http://example.com/exampledoc.html#offset_0_29 itsrdf:translate "yes"^^<http://www.w3.org/TR/its-2.0/its.xsd#yesOrNo>.
15:25:00 <aphillip> ... if you have an HTML like above
15:25:05 <aphillip> ... we make RDF out of it
15:25:39 <aphillip> ... such as the above
15:25:50 <aphillip> ... and the conversion requires normalization to NFC
15:26:02 <aphillip> ... so if non-normalized characters, then offset could change
15:26:28 <aphillip> ... remember that we ended up with no normalization in HTML5
15:27:34 <aphillip> addison: when applied? would NCRs have same effect?
15:27:41 <aphillip> felix: no, that's handled
15:28:26 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0078.html
15:28:45 <aphillip> richard: what does example say?
15:28:58 <aphillip> felix: says "there is a string at those offsets that is translateable"
15:30:07 <aphillip> norbert: instead of saying "my string goes from 0 to 29"
15:30:22 <aphillip> ... say "starts at and here is normalized length"
15:32:41 <aphillip> richard: if you change source file, then RDF has to be regenerated??
15:32:44 <aphillip> felix: yes
15:32:53 <aphillip> ... meant for automatic annotation
15:33:16 <aphillip> ... so RDF is a "broker" in a larger workflow
15:34:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:37:17 <aphillip> felix: implementer says that his tools require NFC
15:37:32 <aphillip> andrew: does NFC conversion go both directions?
15:37:55 <aphillip> ... once translated, is there a normalization step?
15:38:06 <aphillip> ... when retruning to HTML
15:39:03 <carlin66pat> carlin66pat has joined #i18n
15:39:24 <fsasaki> s/retruning/returning/
15:40:31 <Zakim> +??P9
15:42:24 <aphillip> andrew: need to check some minority languages are affected, see UTN#11
15:45:06 <r12a> patricia, ishida@w3.org
15:45:12 <Zakim> -carlin66pat
15:46:11 <aphillip> ACTION: felix: prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week
15:46:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-145 - Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-22].
15:47:17 <aphillip> Topic: TURTLE
15:47:35 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0067.html
15:47:47 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0072.html
15:48:03 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0076.html
15:49:05 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-turtle-20120710/
15:49:42 <aharon> Got to go. Bye, everyone.
15:49:49 <aphillip> It's not clear why this should take eight hex digits when the first two are required to be 0.
15:50:01 <aharon> aharon has left #i18n
15:50:13 <Zakim> -aharon?
15:50:47 <aphillip> Also, the trend seems to be going towards \u{xxxxx}: http://norbertlindenberg.com/2012/05/ecmascript-supplementary-characters/index.html#Escapes http://unicode.org/reports/tr18/#Hex_notation
15:51:19 <aphillip> replace with this format??
15:51:40 <aphillip> addison: agree with that
15:51:53 <aphillip> richard: charmod says "use delimiter or use fixed number of digits"
15:52:41 <aphillip> addison: can *suggest* they use the more "modern" (trendy?) format?
15:53:00 <aphillip> richard: need a rationale
15:53:35 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has left #i18n
15:53:36 <aphillip> addison: single, variable-lenght, easy-to-parse syntax
15:53:41 <aphillip> ... being widely adopted
15:53:50 <aphillip> ... worthy of consideration
15:54:00 <aphillip> Section 6.4, both forms of Unicode escape sequence: The spec doesn't say at what stage the escape sequences are converted to their corresponding characters. Can \u0022 start or end a string literal (as it does in Java)?
15:54:21 <aphillip> addison: think it's important
15:55:18 <aphillip> >> 1. Example in the introduction includes a non-ASCII/non-English value, which is nice to see. However this example and the later example in 2.3 omit any language declaration on the English name "Spiderman".
15:55:39 <aphillip> >> 2. No reference is given on how to label language. This should refer to BCP 47.
15:56:40 <aphillip> richard: "scope of this document has language tag 'blah'"??
15:56:49 <aphillip> (that's a new comment)
15:56:58 <aphillip> norbert: useful
15:57:00 <aphillip> addison: +1
15:58:53 <aphillip> >> 3. Section 2.4 discusses IRIs, but does not use a non-ASCII example.
16:00:59 <aphillip> >> 4. Section 2.5.1 references several character sequences quoting character sequences such as " / @ and ^^. These should probably list the Unicode character names and/or code points for clarity.
16:01:14 <aphillip> >> 5. Section 2.5.1 uses several examples that are highly culturally distinct to the United States. (One could quibble about Spiderman and Green Goblin as well, but at least these are part of a film seen internationally, as opposed to a television show of doubtful international distribution??)
16:01:40 <aphillip> >> 6. Section 2.5.2 has an example of a number: >>  >>      :censusYear 2007 ;              # xsd:integer >>  >> ... that is probably ill-advised. While years are represented by numbers, this might not be a good example of an "integer". >>  >> 6a. This example in the same section also is questionable? >>  >>     :gdpDollars 14074.2E9 ;         # xsd:double
16:03:47 <aphillip> richard: put explanations in comment (use gYear, dollars are a complex type)
16:04:05 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:04:17 <matial> Bye
16:04:30 <Zakim> -fsasaki
16:04:32 <Zakim> -andrewc
16:04:47 <Zakim> -Norbert
16:06:16 <Zakim> -matial
16:07:25 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
16:11:53 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/results/results-idn-display
16:12:04 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/results/results-rtl-idn-display
16:13:19 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/idn-and-iri/Overview
16:14:01 <Zakim> -joconner
16:15:53 <joconner1> joconner1 has left #i18n
16:19:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Richard, in I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM
16:19:03 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
16:19:03 <Zakim> Attendees were matial, Addison_Phillips, fsasaki, andrewc, Richard, Norbert, +1.408.536.aaaa, joconner, +1.650.646.aabb, aharon?, carlin66pat
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16:53:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:53:37 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:53:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:54:10 <aphillip> Present: Addison, Richard, Norbert, Felix, John, Mati, Aharon, Andrew
16:54:15 <aphillip> Present+ David
16:54:20 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:54:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html aphillip