15:01:32 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:01:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-irc
15:01:34 RRSAgent, make logs 185
15:01:36 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:01:36 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:37 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:01:37 Date: 14 August 2012
15:03:26 whitech has joined #html-media
15:03:51 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:51 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, Clarke
15:03:52 On IRC I see whitech, RRSAgent, Zakim, markw, paulc, ddorwin, Clarke, acolwell, Nixu, Johnsim, MikeSmith, matt, trackbot
15:04:05 adrianba has joined #html-media
15:04:59 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:59 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, paulc
15:05:00 On IRC I see adrianba, whitech, RRSAgent, Zakim, markw, paulc, ddorwin, Clarke, acolwell, Nixu, Johnsim, MikeSmith, matt, trackbot
15:05:01 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Aug/0006.html
15:05:11 zakim, GVoice is me
15:05:11 sorry, ddorwin, I do not recognize a party named 'GVoice'
15:05:12 zakim, list attendees
15:05:12 sorry, paulc, I don't know what conference this is
15:05:15 Scribe: Matt
15:05:23 zakim, this is HTML_WG
15:05:23 ok, adrianba; that matches HTML_WG()11:00AM
15:05:31 zakim, who is here?
15:05:31 On the phone I see +1.425.888.aaaa, Clarke, NiXu, acolwell, matt, [GVoice], [Microsoft], +1.310.210.aabb, +1.415.867.aacc, [Microsoft.a]
15:05:33 zakim, list attendees
15:05:34 On IRC I see adrianba, whitech, RRSAgent, Zakim, markw, paulc, ddorwin, Clarke, acolwell, Nixu, Johnsim, MikeSmith, matt, trackbot
15:05:34 As of this point the attendees have been +1.425.888.aaaa, Clarke, NiXu, acolwell, matt, [GVoice], [Microsoft], +1.310.210.aabb, +1.415.867.aacc
15:05:42 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:05:42 +adrianba; got it
15:05:55 zakim, GVoice is me
15:05:55 +ddorwin; got it
15:06:18 Zakim, aacc is markw
15:06:18 +markw; got it
15:06:27 zakim, +1.425.888.aagg is me
15:06:27 sorry, Johnsim, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425.888.aagg'
15:06:39 zakim, who is here?
15:06:39 On the phone I see +1.425.888.aaaa, Clarke, NiXu, acolwell, matt, ddorwin, [Microsoft], +1.310.210.aabb, markw, adrianba
15:06:41 On IRC I see adrianba, whitech, RRSAgent, Zakim, markw, paulc, ddorwin, Clarke, acolwell, Nixu, Johnsim, MikeSmith, matt, trackbot
15:06:46 zakim aagg is me
15:07:00 zakim aaaa is me
15:07:01 zakim, aagg is Johnsim
15:07:01 sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named 'aagg'
15:07:02 zakim, aagg is johnsim
15:07:02 sorry, adrianba, I do not recognize a party named 'aagg'
15:07:13 pal has joined #html-media
15:07:19 zakim, [Microsoft] is paulc
15:07:19 +paulc; got it
15:07:27 Topic: Roll call
15:08:22 matt: Hi, I'm Matt. I'll be helping out as part of the work on Web and TV. I'm at MIT, so I'm on East Coast time.
15:08:24 Topic: Previous minutes
15:08:25 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:08:29 paulc: No comments on those.
15:08:36 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0096.html Previous Minutes
15:08:41 Topic: Review Actions
15:08:54 paulc: There weren't any in tracker, but there were some informal ones that I put in the agenda.
15:09:13 Topic: Baseline documents and Bugzilla information
15:09:18 -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html Draft
15:09:24 ->
15:09:24 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=HTML+WG&component=Media+Source+Extensions&longdesc_type=allwordssubstr&longdesc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bug_id_type=anyex
15:09:25 &bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= Bugzilla
15:09:27 pal_ has joined #html-media
15:09:34 Topic: Actions from the previous meetings
15:09:40 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Aug/0003.html
15:09:41 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html
15:09:52 pal has left #html-media
15:10:08 pal_ has joined #html-media
15:10:22 + +1.303.661.aadd
15:10:23 s/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html/
15:10:23 s/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html//
15:10:23 Aaron?: I don't think there's anything to talk about they're done.
15:10:23 s!-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html!!
15:10:34 paulc: Bug 17739 and Bug 18389 are resolved
15:10:49 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18389 Bug 18389
15:10:57 zakim, boblund is +1.303-661-aadd
15:10:57 sorry, BobLund, I do not recognize a party named 'boblund'
15:11:28 zakim, BobLund is +1.303.661.aadd
15:11:28 sorry, BobLund, I do not recognize a party named 'BobLund'
15:12:09 zakim, who is noisy?
15:12:20 adrianba, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: acolwell (57%), paulc (56%)
15:12:31 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18550
15:12:48 Topic: New Bugs
15:12:48 zakim, 303.661.aadd is me
15:12:48 sorry, BobLund, I do not recognize a party named '303.661.aadd'
15:12:50 zakim, who is noisy?
15:12:52 paulc: The new bugs in item six are in the encrypted media group and I'll deal with those at the next meeting.
15:12:55 paulc: Both of them?
15:12:56 Note that bugs 18515 and 18531 are both EME bugs
15:12:57 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18550 New bug
15:12:59 acolwell: Provides a definition for TrackID
15:13:01 zakim, aadd is BobLund
15:13:01 +BobLund; got it
15:13:02 matt, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: acolwell (18%), +1.303.661.aadd (8%), paulc (22%)
15:13:12 zakim, 303-661-aadd is me
15:13:12 sorry, BobLund, I do not recognize a party named '303-661-aadd'
15:13:18 paulc: Does that propose a solution?
15:13:28 Aaron: Just need to figure out the text to put in there.
15:13:35 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:13:35 On the phone I see +1.425.888.aaaa, Clarke, NiXu, acolwell, matt, ddorwin, paulc, +1.310.210.aabb, markw, adrianba, BobLund
15:13:44 paulc: Timetable?
15:13:56 Aaron: Next call.
15:14:07 INFORMAL ACTION: acolwell to propose a solution for 18550 before next meeting
15:14:22 Topic: Actions from previous meeting
15:14:39 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18400 Bug 18400
15:14:56 paulc: Previous notes said markw will address by this call.
15:15:19 markw: I posted a proposal to the bug, they were descriptive rather than text proposals. No comments yet, so next step is text proposal.
15:15:56 markw: One question: sometimes you don't know where the media ends in a segment that has been appended. This can happen in a video with subtitles, there's a subtitle between 5s and 10s, but then you don't know which portion is addressed by that segment.
15:16:55 markw: If you have the exact information about how the timeline is covered, then you don't need that feature. There's a case of the mp4 format ??? despite having the span, that information is made available to the application.
15:17:01 zakim, who is noisy?
15:17:11 paulc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: acolwell (23%), paulc (78%)
15:17:47 regarding the mp4 format, the information about the end of the segment not in the segment, but is in the segment index
15:18:02 zakim, I am +1.310.210.aabb
15:18:02 +pal_; got it
15:18:08 Aaron responded in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18400#c4
15:18:33 acolwell: For the most part I agree with Mark on his proposal. There's only one section that doesn't get to how long the segment is and causes a problem. Should we mandate that media segments have some form of duration information in them?
15:18:46 acolwell: I think that might be what markw was advocating, or at least in ISO you already know it.
15:19:00 acolwell: If we require the duration, then we need to change the WebM text as it's not required there.
15:19:28 markw: The information isn't there itself but it's available to the application. You could imagine adding to the API that that information is added when you append.
15:19:34 paulc: Next step?
15:20:03 INFORMAL ACTION: markw to reply to Aaron's response to bug 18400 comment 4 by next meeting
15:20:29 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17001 Bug 17001
15:20:51 paulc: Any action on this?
15:21:03 +Mark_Vickers
15:21:20 Bob's response is here: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17001#c1
15:21:48 mark_vickers has joined #html-media
15:21:50 acolwell: I did contact Bob, didn't CC list. He had commented back that he was okay with the changes. So I closed the bug.
15:21:53 RESOLUTION: bug 17001 ( https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17001) FIXED
15:22:26 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17000 Bug 17000
15:22:50 adrianba: We haven't worked on this, the encrypted work is a higher priority.
15:23:28 INFORMAL ACTION: adrianba and Johnsim to look at bug 17000 before next meeting.
15:23:33 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:23:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:23:52 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17002 Bug 17002
15:24:13 paulc: On this one we were trying to decide to close this bug and make a new one, adrianba said we should retitle it. acolwell said he'd look at the history.
15:24:21 acolwell: I retitled the bug and added a comment.
15:24:21 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17002#c7
15:24:27 New title: Specify a mechanism to determine which SourceBuffer an AudioTrack,VideoTrack, or TextTrack belong to.
15:24:48 acolwell: Also posted a message to the list to ask for people to look at it.
15:24:57 rrsagent, make logs public
15:25:22 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Aug/0008.html acolwell mail on updated bug 17002
15:25:27 paulc: Anyone have comments on this now?
15:26:03 paulc: It would help if people would indicate support. Please don't think you only have to respond in the negative.
15:26:51 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17006 Bug 17006
15:27:21 acolwell: This goes back to the DASH spec, and this asks what level of support do we want. DASH allows language and kind to be set on each different track. Depending on how you allow this, you could have track language change mid playback.
15:27:46 acolwell: It needs to be scoped a bit better for where it is allowed to be changed.
15:27:56 q+
15:28:06 ack markw
15:28:15 markw: What scenarios do you think those properties would change in DASH?
15:28:46 acolwell: language and role (which is kind in HTML) that could be applied to both adaptation-set? and component? Seems like you could have multiple ?? in a adaptation-set.
15:29:04 q+
15:29:18 markw: Those are required to have the same properties at the ??adaptation?? level.
15:30:14 markw: If you had a adaptation set with three in it, all three would have the same values.
15:30:34 acolwell: I need to start a thread to discuss this. When I looked at the mpeg spec, it looked like there could be trickiness involved.
15:30:46 q-
15:30:54 INFORMAL ACTION: acolwell to start a thread on bug 17006
15:31:00 ack bob
15:31:06 the trickiness is that a single source buffer can map to multiple HTML track if the media is multiplexed
15:31:54 BobLund: The media component would provide an override and if you had a component that each would -- if you had an mpg2 transport with mp3, etc, and each would map into audio, video and text track.
15:32:17 acolwell: Do you need to be able to update each track's kind and language or groups of these? Is it at source buffer level or track level?
15:32:42 BobLund: I don't know if there's anything in the DASH spec that would prohibit that. We've talked about ?? and that would be a new source buffer.
15:33:09 markw: I'm not sure how you could match up the media components and the source buffer.
15:33:13 BobLund: That's another issue actually.
15:33:41 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17072 Bug 17072
15:33:45 s/media components and the source buffer/media components and the multiple tracks provided from a single source buffer/
15:33:53 paulc: We said at the last meeting that this might not be relevant.
15:34:14 acolwell: Yes, most of the remaining issues are covered by what Mark is working on. Closed it, left a comment and pointed forward to new bug.
15:34:34 paulc: So that one is done.
15:34:58 acolwell: Bug 17072 was marked resolved will fix.
15:35:11 s/will fix/won't fix/
15:35:25 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17094 Bug 17094
15:35:33 Define segment formats for MPEG2-TS
15:35:48 paulc: acolwell You suggested this might be controversial and need to talk it out.
15:35:57 acolwell: No progress made. Still pending.
15:36:15 ??: I don't know if someone on the call is championing this one, they might be best to advocate for it.
15:36:47 paulc: This was filed by Duncan from BBC. Not on the call today.
15:37:01 paulc: I don't see him participating in the dialog at all.
15:37:07 BobLund: I'll volunteer to champion this.
15:37:25 paulc: Perhaps do a PRO/CON list on the list for taking action on this
15:37:32 BobLund: Will do and will close the loop with Duncan on this.
15:37:53 -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16998 Bug 16998 Change sourceAppend() to take a URL and optional range parameters
15:38:00 paulc: We talked about splitting this bug at the last meeting.
15:38:15 paulc: It wasn't obvious if we'd made progress on that or not.
15:38:21 acolwell: No, I haven't split the bug.
15:38:25 paulc: So this one is still pending.
15:38:50 Topic: Candidate Media Source Extension bugs for discussion
15:39:06 paulc: I have a feeling we've touched on all of the bugs in this discussion.
15:39:39 paulc: So, we've made some real progress here.
15:39:46 Topic: Any other business?
15:40:11 paulc: Any other business?
15:40:35 q+
15:40:52 paulc: Matt, will you be scribing future meetings?
15:40:55 matt: Attending, scribing no.
15:41:01 markw: What's the timeline?
15:41:50 paulc: If we can get the bugs closed, there are only 7 still outstanding, publish and bring it to the group. If we can make substantive progress over 2 weeks, and assume we don't get them all closed, then a month from now get the remaining ones.
15:42:00 paulc: That would put us mid-september, and we could put it to the group then. They should be doing a heartbeat publication then, and perhaps get us on the same schedule.
15:42:10 paulc: I suspect we'll have to give the WG a few weeks to review the document.
15:42:22 paulc: But, our first objective is to close this round of bugs.
15:42:47 paulc: The feeling before was that we could move this and EME forward separately.
15:43:14 paulc: At the other meeting, I predicted a single digit number of weeks away from going back to the WG. So, I think we're on schedule, but the bar to get over is to close these last 7 bugs.
15:43:30 paulc: Scribe in two weeks?
15:43:36
15:43:47 paulc: Please clean the minutes and send to the media list.
15:43:54 -BobLund
15:43:58 paulc: Adjourned.
15:43:59 -Clarke
15:44:06 -Mark_Vickers
15:44:07 -markw
15:44:08 -acolwell
15:44:10 - +1.425.888.aaaa
15:44:10 -adrianba
15:44:11 -pal_
15:44:11 -ddorwin
15:44:13 -NiXu
15:44:57 glenn has joined #html-media
15:45:58 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:45:58 On the phone I see matt, paulc
15:46:03 zakim, drop me
15:46:03 matt is being disconnected
15:46:04 -matt
15:46:13 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:46:13 On the phone I see paulc
15:46:17 zakim, drop paulc
15:46:17 paulc is being disconnected
15:46:18 HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended
15:46:18 Attendees were +1.425.888.aaaa, Clarke, NiXu, acolwell, matt, +1.310.210.aabb, +1.415.867.aacc, adrianba, ddorwin, markw, paulc, +1.303.661.aadd, BobLund, pal_, Mark_Vickers
15:46:30 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:46:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:46:43 rrsagent, make minutes public
15:46:43 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', matt. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:46:51 rrsagent, make logs public
15:46:58 Chair: paulc
15:47:19 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:47:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:47:34 adrianba has left #html-media
15:55:56 s|s/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html/||
15:56:11 s|s/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html//||
15:56:16 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:56:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:56:45 s|-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html||
15:56:56 s|s/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html/|
15:56:58 s|s/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html/||
15:57:01 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:57:29 s|s!-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0003.html!!||
15:57:45 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
16:00:06 s|https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_t.*||
16:00:09 rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/14-html-media-minutes.html matt
16:49:28 pal has joined #html-media
17:49:30 pal has joined #html-media
18:06:01 Zakim has left #html-media
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18:45:15