13:25:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:25:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rd-irc
13:25:54 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
13:25:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:25:56 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:25:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:25:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:25:59 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:25:59 <trackbot> Date: 08 August 2012
13:26:07 <vivienne> vivienne has joined #rd
13:26:13 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
13:26:13 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rd-minutes.html sharper
13:26:28 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
13:26:28 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:26:29 <sharper> Agenda+ Text Cust. CfP (30m) - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Text_Customization_Symposium_draft_page [shawn]
13:26:29 <sharper> Agenda+ Next Topic Discussions (25m) [all]
13:26:29 <sharper> Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)  [shadi]
13:26:29 <sharper> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
13:26:31 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper]
13:26:40 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
13:26:46 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rd-agenda.rdf
13:26:55 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
13:26:55 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
13:27:11 <sharper> regrets+ Yesilada_Yeliz
13:28:17 <shawn> shawn has joined #rd
13:28:49 <shawn> zakim, code?
13:28:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shawn
13:32:10 <klaus> klaus has joined #rd
13:32:10 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:32:10 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has not yet started, shawn
13:32:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see klaus, shawn, vivienne, Zakim, RRSAgent, sharper, Justin_Brown, nonge_, shadi, Mate, trackbot
13:32:20 <shadi> zakim, this is rdwg
13:32:20 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
13:32:25 <Justin_Brown> zakim, Justin_Brown is me
13:32:25 <Zakim> sorry, Justin_Brown, I do not recognize a party named 'Justin_Brown'
13:32:30 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:32:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P13, ??P14, Shawn, ??P16, Shadi
13:32:52 <vivienne> zakim, ??P14 is me
13:32:52 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
13:32:52 <Justin_Brown> zakim, ??p13 is me
13:32:53 <Zakim> +Justin_Brown; got it
13:33:05 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
13:33:23 <sharper> sip client just crashed out - hold on
13:34:00 <markel> markel has joined #rd
13:34:22 <klaus> zakim?? P16 is me
13:34:38 <klaus> zakim??, P16 is me
13:34:45 <klaus> zakim,?? P16 is me
13:34:45 <Zakim> I don't understand '?? P16 is me', klaus
13:34:53 <Zakim> +??P18
13:35:11 <giorgio> zakim, ??P18 is giorgio
13:35:11 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
13:35:15 <klaus> zakim, ?? P16 is me
13:35:15 <Zakim> I don't understand '?? P16 is me', klaus
13:35:35 <klaus> zakim, ??P16 is me
13:35:35 <Zakim> +klaus; got it
13:36:32 <sharper> x-lite has problems - please continue without myself for the moment
13:37:17 <vivienne> scribe:vivienne
13:37:31 <markel> I also updated my X-lite and is not working now :-(
13:37:41 <shadi> agenda?
13:38:01 <vivienne> zakim, take next
13:38:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take next', vivienne
13:38:18 <vivienne> zakim, take up next
13:38:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Text Cust. CfP (30m) - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Text_Customization_Symposium_draft_page" taken up [from shawn]
13:38:36 <vivienne> :)
13:39:51 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Text_Customization_Symposium_draft_page#Call_for_Papers_2
13:40:59 <vivienne> shawn: edits have been received from Shadi for main symposium page.  The other co-chairs will have edits as well.  The text has been put into the wiki from the main symposium page. There are 2 sections TCFR main page and 2nd second is call for papers
13:41:18 <vivienne> shadi: having problem with definition of the call for papers
13:41:45 <vivienne> shadi: very dependent on objectives and scope - which are part of the call
13:42:17 <vivienne> shawn: maybe not look at the first part as it was previously approved.  Edits not yet integrated and chairs may have others.  People should have already looked at it. Need to look at edits first
13:42:51 <vivienne> shadi: look at objectives.  Pre-call is a placeholder, but we need to finalize the call and it would be useful to look at the objectives and scope as they are prt of the call for papers
13:43:11 <vivienne> shawn: has edits now that have not been integrated as of yesterday]
13:43:30 <vivienne> shadi: do you have questions about those comments - may be other opinions
13:43:54 <vivienne> shadi: look at the page shawn has put in irc and look at it from a scientific perspective
13:44:09 <vivienne> shadi: scope and objectives need to be looked at now
13:45:22 <shadi> [group reading material provided by Shawn until Simon and Markel join]
13:46:42 <Zakim> +??P20
13:47:10 <Zakim> +??P21
13:47:36 <sharper> I've no mic
13:47:43 <markel> zakim, ??P21 is markel
13:47:43 <Zakim> +markel; got it
13:48:25 <sharper> zakim, ??P20 is sharper
13:48:25 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
13:49:16 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Text_Customization_Symposium_draft_page#Call_for_Papers_2
13:50:00 <Justin_Brown> +q
13:50:08 <sharper> ack J
13:50:09 <vivienne> simon: thoughts?
13:50:13 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:50:13 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:51:05 <vivienne> justin:  what about character sets - don't see anything about this.
13:51:20 <vivienne> shawn: it would be interesting to see how different character sets are recognized
13:51:43 <vivienne> justin: we've had some problems with the different character sets - trying to make it accessible and scalable - something to keep in mind
13:51:57 <vivienne> shawn: shall we craft a question later?
13:52:09 <vivienne> simon: more comments?
13:52:29 <vivienne> q+
13:52:48 <shadi> q+
13:53:09 <vivienne> shawn: have received some comments from Shadi that I haven't had a chance to integrate
13:54:13 <vivienne> shawn: new comment at the top of the objectives - there had not been a lot of research on this topic and that by having it as separate we could encourage more research through this symposium.  It may be too passive.  Does it fit there, or should it be refined?
13:54:20 <vivienne> q-
13:54:26 <sharper> ack s
13:54:29 <shadi> ack me
13:55:36 <vivienne> shadi: from own perspective, feel the objectives section needs more refining - some of the questions are very specific and pre-determined in their outcomes, whle others like the first one are really generic - more of a goal for the symposium
13:56:35 <vivienne> shadi: call for papers - "we invite papers on..." very specific.  Maybe a sub-heading "for this symposium we invite papers on the following". Maybe refine the questions more -make them less pointed
13:56:41 <vivienne> simon: comment?
13:57:12 <vivienne> simon: first line is more about the symposium - its more of a goal and could be included in the goals rather than in the objectives
13:57:23 <shadi> +1
13:57:24 <vivienne> q+
13:57:30 <sharper> ack v
13:57:31 <giorgio> +1
13:57:57 <vivienne> q+
13:58:28 <vivienne> simon: the call will be emailed etc.
13:59:05 <vivienne> shawn: call for papers page and then there's the email that goes out.  It was intended to be the web page and all of those details aren't needed in the email.  Review policy etc don't need to be in the email.
13:59:38 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:59:38 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:59:39 <vivienne> simon: copyright can point to the page, but the review process should be known - encourages writers as they know about the peer-review etc
13:59:48 <shadi> zakim, who is making noise?
13:59:59 <Zakim> shadi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: klaus (77%), sharper (94%)
14:00:24 <vivienne> simon: people know fromthe start that there is rigour in the paper review process
14:00:26 <klaus> zakim, mute me
14:00:26 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
14:00:43 <sharper> ack v
14:01:46 <shadi> q+
14:02:39 <sharper> ack s
14:02:41 <shadi> ack me
14:02:41 <vivienne> vivienne: can you make the structure a little clearer in the objectives?
14:03:39 <vivienne> shadi: groups need a heading "we invite papers on", "additional materials required",. then questions are more illustrative.  They would be some kind of section heading or theme
14:03:48 <vivienne> simon: anyone else?
14:04:48 <vivienne> shawn: will need to make some more changes and review draft - need 1 more review draft
14:04:58 <vivienne> simon: can you send it out to us?
14:05:05 <vivienne> shawn: today or at least this week
14:05:29 <vivienne> shadi: how many people are available to review by email?
14:05:57 <shawn> [ ftr, Peter reviewed it ans added some feedback into the wiki that I incorporated] 
14:06:08 <vivienne> simon: some people may not feel it needs more refining.  People who think of submitting would just get on with it and not worry so much about the wording
14:06:19 <shawn> s/Peter reviewed it ans/Peter reviewed it and/
14:06:31 <vivienne> simon: can we get it so that we can just send the review out this week, and then next week agree and send it out
14:06:47 <vivienne> shawn: yes, we can get it done for next week
14:07:50 <vivienne> shadi: other prerequisites other than agreeing call for papers is the allocation of the other co-chairs we were working on last week
14:08:20 <vivienne> shawn: updates on co-chairs - 2 are confirmed David Sloan, Kath Straub
14:08:57 <vivienne> shawn: they both have strong research backgrounds and Kath has great usability experience
14:09:34 <vivienne> shadi: Simon can agree to visitors to teleconferences where the there are specific agenda items where needed
14:10:14 <vivienne> shadi: if they want to join the group, they have to go through the correct procedure
14:10:29 <vivienne> zakim, take up next
14:10:29 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Next Topic Discussions (25m)" taken up [from all]
14:10:44 <klaus> zakim, unmute me
14:10:44 <Zakim> klaus should no longer be muted
14:10:51 <klaus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_4_pre-call
14:11:05 <vivienne> klaus: draft to link to description to call for papers
14:11:48 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:11:48 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:12:23 <vivienne> klaus: focus would be more on the language use itself - separates text customization from language use and uses challenging questions.  Have a look at the practice in translation of information into easy to read - but little about methodology, guidelines and what is being done in practice
14:13:55 <vivienne> klaus: additional question: models of easy to read in practice.  Who performs the task etc. There is other text coming from other colleagues and this will be added.  This is just a draft and Klaus would like input from the group.  Asking for feedback
14:14:37 <vivienne> simon: we focus on shawn's call for paper and we spend 5 minutes next week to approve.  We'll add 30 minutes next time for the E2R and by that time Klaus and his colleages will have their input.
14:14:56 <shadi> q+
14:14:59 <shadi> ack me
14:14:59 <klaus> zakim, mute me
14:15:00 <sharper> ack s
14:15:01 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
14:16:31 <vivienne> shadi: appreciate Klaus' work.  Initial reaction - seems very broad in scope.  May need more structuring, particularly the objectives section.  You may need to group things a bit more e.g. user needs, definition of rules, techniques.  Maybe pose specific questions with other grouped under it.  
14:16:41 <shawn> q+
14:16:46 <klaus> zakim, unmute me
14:16:46 <Zakim> klaus should no longer be muted
14:16:56 <vivienne> Shadi: where has the scientific committee come from?
14:17:07 <vivienne> klaus: it has been copied & pasted
14:17:15 <vivienne> shadi: needs to be worked out separately
14:17:51 <vivienne> q+
14:18:41 <shawn> q+ to say for E2R, Shawn will be on the Scientific Committee, but not Co-Chair :-)
14:18:55 <vivienne> shadi: regarding the symposium chairs - maybe need to look at a native speaker?  On the user groups, people with cognitive problems - need to watch wording - disabilities not problems
14:18:58 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:18:58 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:19:07 <shawn> q+ to mention SC for one not the other
14:19:09 <shawn> ack me
14:19:09 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say for E2R, Shawn will be on the Scientific Committee, but not Co-Chair :-) and to mention SC for one not the other
14:19:44 <vivienne> shawn: for the E2R I can be on the scientific committee, won't be on the chair.  
14:20:12 <klaus> q+
14:20:14 <vivienne> shawn: reminder -drafted a page for an invitation to the scientific committee
14:20:19 <sharper> ack v
14:20:51 <sharper> ack k
14:20:57 <shadi> [I'm happy to be on the scientific committee, not a co-chair]
14:21:06 <shawn> Vivienne: not on SC for e2r
14:21:07 <vivienne> vivienne: please remove me from the scientific committee as I'm not qualified in this
14:21:47 <shadi> q+
14:21:48 <vivienne> klaus: thought the scientific committee was to be the same as we were thinking we may have to switch people to the other symposium.  Do I need to write to them?
14:21:51 <shadi> q-
14:21:57 <klaus> zakim, mute me
14:21:57 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
14:22:26 <shadi> q+
14:22:51 <vivienne> shawn: we had talked about that some time ago (1) invited people who are specifically interested in Text customization not easy to read (2) its up to the chairs regarding moving papers.  People may not be interested in both topics.
14:23:09 <shadi> ack me
14:24:14 <vivienne> shadi: last week we talked about that - suggested the chairs would need to be well-coordinated and the individual scientific committees will review and the chairs may recommend moving a paper from one topic to the other.  The chairs should be in each other's scientific committee.  There could be separate scientific committees.
14:24:22 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:24:22 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:24:57 <shawn> timelines http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline
14:25:15 <shadi> q+
14:25:22 <vivienne> simon: will send a new agendy with more detail on E2R and please read the updated call for papers for Text Customization.  If you're going to object, then make sure you've sent notice to Shawn.
14:25:56 <vivienne> simon: we'll look at Klaus' update more then also.  If anyone has idea to participate in idea for topic 5&6.
14:25:59 <shadi> ack me
14:26:02 <vivienne> simon: more business?
14:26:32 <vivienne> shadi: please give an action for people to review both call for papers.
14:26:51 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:26:51 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:26:57 <shadi> ack me
14:27:46 <vivienne> shadi: simon, can you send out a clear message after the call - please review.. by...  Maybe be a bit more demanding.
14:27:47 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:27:47 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:28:20 <vivienne> simon: I'll send out a note for people to look at both of these and will include the URL's.
14:29:08 <vivienne> shawn: timelines: we discussed moving the paper deadline later and Klaus seems to be in support of that.  Text customization chairs agree with that.  Will review timelines again and have a later deadline.
14:29:15 <shadi> +1 to later deadline! thanks for the work to make this happen shawn and klaus
14:29:19 <shadi> ack me
14:29:43 <vivienne> shadi: research report - for editors, need to approve changes to bring to the group.
14:30:03 <giorgio> +1
14:30:06 <vivienne> simon: editors - markel and giorgio - good with that
14:30:11 <shawn> s/Will review timelines again/Will revise timelines again/
14:30:41 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:30:41 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:30:52 <vivienne> shadi: discuss it again next week - will send message to group summarize changes that have been done.  People will need to be reminded to have a look at it and make sure changes are approved for publication.
14:31:17 <vivienne> shadi: please put it on the agenda
14:31:29 <markel> bye! 
14:31:32 <vivienne> -vivienne
14:31:34 <giorgio> bye
14:31:34 <markel> markel has left #rd
14:31:34 <vivienne> vivienne has left #rd
14:31:35 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:31:37 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:31:38 <Zakim> -markel
14:31:43 <Zakim> -giorgio
14:31:44 <Zakim> -vivienne
14:31:47 <Zakim> -klaus
14:31:48 <Zakim> -sharper
14:31:51 <Zakim> -Justin_Brown
14:31:52 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:31:52 <Zakim> Attendees were Shawn, Shadi, vivienne, Justin_Brown, giorgio, klaus, markel, sharper
14:32:37 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:32:37 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:32:37 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:32:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:32:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rd-minutes.html trackbot
14:32:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:32:46 <RRSAgent> I see no action items