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16:33:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/07-text-irc
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16:34:33 <Judy> agenda+ Agenda review; identify scribe.
16:34:33 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 30, longdesc, preamble
16:34:33 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 31b, buggy alts and buggy alt guidance, review updated text
16:34:33 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 204, follow-up thoughts
16:34:33 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 206, metagenerator, discussion of current proposals
16:34:34 <Judy> agenda+ Confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn
16:34:42 <Judy> chair: Judy
16:34:49 <Judy> regrets: Laura
16:35:52 <Judy> zakim, this will be WAI_PF(Text)
16:35:52 <Zakim> ok, Judy; I see WAI_PF(Text)1:00PM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
16:57:15 <janina> janina has joined #text
16:57:45 <Zakim> WAI_PF(Text)1:00PM has now started
16:57:52 <Zakim> +??P0
16:58:01 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is Janina
16:58:01 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
16:58:08 <janina> zakim, agenda?
16:58:08 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:58:09 <Zakim> 1. Agenda review; identify scribe. [from Judy]
16:58:09 <Zakim> 2. Issue 30, longdesc, preamble [from Judy]
16:58:09 <Zakim> 3. Issue 31b, buggy alts and buggy alt guidance, review updated text [from Judy]
16:58:09 <Zakim> 4. Issue 204, follow-up thoughts [from Judy]
16:58:09 <Zakim> 5. Issue 206, metagenerator, discussion of current proposals [from Judy]
16:58:11 <Zakim> 6. Confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn [from Judy]
16:59:10 <laura> laura has joined #text
17:00:39 <Zakim> +Judy
17:01:01 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
17:01:08 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
17:01:26 <JF> JF has joined #text
17:01:47 <David> David has joined #text
17:01:47 <janina> scribe: janina
17:01:49 <Judy> scribe: Janina
17:02:04 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
17:02:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Agenda review; identify scribe." taken up [from Judy]
17:03:24 <janina> zakim, close item 1
17:03:24 <Zakim> agendum 1, Agenda review; identify scribe., closed
17:03:26 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:03:26 <Zakim> 2. Issue 30, longdesc, preamble [from Judy]
17:03:28 <janina> zakim, next item
17:03:28 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 30, longdesc, preamble" taken up [from Judy]
17:03:51 <janina> jb: Not as much time on this yet as I had hoped ...
17:04:16 <Zakim> +Laura_Carlson
17:04:34 <janina> jb: Do expect a coordination chat later today to include this topic
17:04:54 <janina> jb: Asking Laura whether she is out on vacation next week?
17:05:03 <janina> lc: Yes. Week of Aug 13
17:05:11 <janina> jb: And, I'm on vacation this week
17:05:21 <janina> jb: Then I'm out again week of Aub 20
17:06:24 <janina> jb: Believe we're agreed that adding a Preamble would be helpful. Do not yet have a draft, expect one later this week.
17:07:26 <janina> jb: Janina and I were revisiting history, esp the feedback review from February last
17:07:46 <janina> lc: Yes, he wanted use cases updated and I did that
17:08:30 <janina> jb: Looking at the history, seems that TF reaffirmation in April may have been focussed on correlation to I204?
17:08:51 <janina> jb: Laura, can you help confirm that we covered all feedback that was requested?
17:09:05 <janina> lc: Yes
17:09:23 <janina> jb: Thanks, I'll be on it this week and we can cover on this.
17:09:59 <janina> jb: One additional question re rebuttal response, are you open to feedback?
17:10:02 <janina> lc: Yes
17:10:14 <janina> lc: Definitely want to make it as strong as I can.
17:11:52 <janina> jb: After those two we can consider whether we want to lay in summary overview lang at the top layer to make the argument flow smooth.
17:12:39 <janina> jb: Hopeful something within a week or two of the 17th is OK, but we need to see I204 decision first.
17:12:53 <janina> jf: Do we know when we will have a 204 decision?
17:13:01 <janina> jb: Believe they intend to wrap 204 quickly
17:13:46 <janina> jb: It isn't necessarily just which of the two CPs they adopt, but also what assertions they might make in their decision.
17:14:28 <janina> jb: For instance there seems to be a continuing understanding that 204 can satisfy longer text description requirements.
17:15:15 <janina> jf: Seems we would want a week or two after the 204 decision to deal with fallout?
17:15:46 <janina> jb: So, if it's out this week, we still need time to digest it, and consider implications.
17:16:06 <janina> jb: At the WG call Sam was suggesting perhaps something like 204 decision plus X number of weeks
17:16:40 <janina> jb: Did we not decide we were going to revisit the long text description reqs?
17:17:11 <janina> jb: Understand last week was very busy
17:17:31 <janina> jb: That is the other piece we need, though. A clear, systematic statement of the reqs
17:17:48 <janina> jf: I was supposed to do that by today, but it has slipped, sorry.
17:18:15 <janina> jf: I have been pulled further into 206 than I anticipated, it's true.
17:18:28 <janina> jb: So, can you do it this week? Independent of these other pieces?
17:18:30 <janina> jf: Yes
17:19:39 <janina> jb: Perhaps by TF on Thursday?
17:19:44 <janina> jf: Probably--will try.
17:20:06 <JF> will try HARD
17:21:52 <janina> js: PF will want to review.
17:22:02 <janina> jb: Yes, and we can tweak here next week as well
17:23:21 <janina> jb: Don't believe there's anything else on 30 for now? ...
17:23:25 <JF> current requirments text: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Requirements
17:23:40 <janina> zakim, next item
17:23:40 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 31b, buggy alts and buggy alt guidance, review updated text" taken up [from Judy]
17:24:55 <JF> Q+
17:25:29 <janina> zakim, close item 3
17:25:29 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
17:25:32 <janina> zakim, open item 2
17:25:32 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 30, longdesc, preamble" taken up [from Judy]
17:26:36 <janina> js: One more important piece is the decision on 194. While not proposing possible approaches on handling longer text descriptions, it may make assertions that we need to consider, and we don't know what they're going to say, or how they will reason their conclusions.
17:28:12 <JF> Q+
17:29:00 <janina> jb: Is there a particular concern re 194?
17:29:29 <janina> js: I can't predict. It's as much as the reasoning applied that matters.
17:29:48 <janina> jf: There are two different design approaches on 194.
17:35:17 <janina> jb: Since decision on 194 is already made, or close, and certainly survey has closed, we should ask and we should look at it.
17:37:24 <JF> ack JF
17:37:28 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:37:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Judy, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, Laura_Carlson
17:39:09 <janina> jb: Also want to be sure we explore the importance of supporting established W3C a11y tech, that has users.
17:39:24 <janina> jb: Implementers have an obligation here
17:41:19 <janina> zakim, next item
17:41:19 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 31b, buggy alts and buggy alt guidance, review updated text" taken up [from Judy]
17:41:40 <Judy> http://www.davidmacd.com/WCAG/WAI/buggy.html
17:42:11 <janina> jb: I'm finding this looks so much clearer than before. Thanks, David!
17:42:58 <janina> jb: One additional tweak -- the last two columns in the first table -- Can you swap them?
17:44:59 <Judy> h1 Analyis of alt guidance and alts in HTML5 specification
17:45:10 <Judy> h2 Analysis of alt guidance
17:45:25 <Judy> h2 Analysis of alts
17:50:19 <Judy> agenda?
17:53:14 <janina> zakim, next item
17:53:14 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Issue 204, follow-up thoughts" taken up [from Judy]
17:56:07 <janina> jb: Thanks, John, for the test page
17:56:26 <janina> jb: Janina, you also emphasized a particular point on that
17:56:44 <janina> js: Here's my key comment on the WBS:
17:56:45 <janina> Janina Sajka Objection: It is inappropriate to base any HTML 5 behavior on the current ARIA specifications because the current ARIA specifications are normative for HTML 4 only. Work has not yet begun on ARIA for HTML 5, except as has been negotiated with the PF-WG expressly for use in HTML 5 specifications. If the HTML-WG wishes to negotiate additional ARIA
17:57:01 <janina>  behavior fr its HTML 5 specifications, iat should propose the particulars to the PF-WG.
17:58:14 <David> me/ OK done...  http://www.davidmacd.com/WCAG/WAI/buggy.html
17:59:49 <laura> Great job David. Thanks for all of your work.
18:02:09 <laura> Bye. Have to go now.
18:02:34 <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
18:05:11 <JF> Q+
18:08:57 <JF> ack JF
18:11:39 <janina> zakim, next item
18:11:39 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Issue 206, metagenerator, discussion of current proposals" taken up [from Judy]
18:12:03 <JF> Q+
18:14:30 <janina> js: In conversation with Mike this morning we agreed it might be best to undo meta generator first as no one appears to be supporting it any longer
18:14:37 <janina> jf: Agree and suggested this to Mike
18:14:56 <janina> jf: Believe everyone's in agreement on that, Hickson, Henry, everyone
18:15:11 <janina> jf: What the something else is is still very much in discussion
18:17:28 <Judy> s/Looking at the history/And there was other feedback. Looking at the history/
18:26:11 <Judy> s/the argument flow smooth/the arguments clearer to people viewing the change proposal/
18:27:17 <JF> http://malform.no/testing/html5/img-role-vs-alt/
18:29:20 <Judy> s/and consider implications/and consider how to address any assertions that might cause misunderstandings with regard to the context for issue 30
18:29:51 <janina> jf: Cooking up a proposal for a default accessible-name
18:31:35 <Zakim> -Judy
18:37:48 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
18:57:38 <Zakim> -Janina
18:57:39 <Zakim> WAI_PF(Text)1:00PM has ended
18:57:39 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina, Judy, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, Laura_Carlson
18:57:45 <janina> zakim, bye
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18:57:53 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
18:57:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/07-text-minutes.html janina
18:58:15 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
18:58:22 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
18:58:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/07-text-minutes.html janina
18:59:39 <janina> janina has left #text