IRC log of css on 2012-08-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:29:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #css
15:29:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/01-css-irc
15:29:20 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:29:20 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 31 minutes
15:29:27 [glazou]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:29:33 [glazou]
leaverou: congrats :-)
15:29:38 [glazou]
welcome onboard
15:42:01 [glazou]
Regrets: plinss
15:47:55 [cabanier]
cabanier has joined #css
15:51:49 [lstorset]
lstorset has joined #css
15:55:35 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #css
15:56:08 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:14 [Zakim]
+fantasai
15:56:57 [Zakim]
+??P8
15:57:03 [glazou]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
15:57:03 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
15:58:43 [antonp]
antonp has joined #css
15:58:47 [dstorey]
dstorey has joined #css
15:59:01 [lstorset]
lstorset has joined #css
15:59:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.675.aaaa
15:59:34 [Zakim]
+Bert
15:59:39 [glazou]
Zakim, aaaa is cabanier
15:59:40 [Zakim]
+cabanier; got it
15:59:42 [cabanier]
Zakim, 206.675.aaa is me
15:59:42 [Zakim]
sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named '206.675.aaa'
15:59:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.324.aabb
15:59:54 [cabanier]
Zakim, +206.675.aaa is me
15:59:54 [Zakim]
sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named '+206.675.aaa'
15:59:56 [sylvaing]
Zakim, aabb is sylvaing
15:59:56 [Zakim]
+sylvaing; got it
16:00:01 [glazou]
cabanier: I already did it
16:00:10 [florian]
florian has joined #css
16:00:18 [cabanier]
Thanks!
16:00:20 [dstorey]
I'll be on IRC only today. Don't have phone access right now
16:00:34 [glazou]
Zakim, who is noisy?
16:00:38 [glazou]
dstorey: ok
16:00:50 [Zakim]
glazou, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:00:59 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aacc
16:01:02 [Zakim]
+??P24
16:01:08 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:01:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.308.aadd
16:01:13 [florian]
Zakim, I am aacc
16:01:16 [Zakim]
+florian; got it
16:01:29 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #css
16:01:43 [smfr]
smfr has joined #css
16:01:44 [JohnJansen]
Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
16:01:50 [Zakim]
+JohnJansen; got it
16:01:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.390.aaee
16:01:57 [Zakim]
+ +93550aaff
16:01:58 [stearns]
zakim, aaee is me
16:01:59 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
16:02:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.604.312.aagg
16:02:06 [antonp]
Zakim, aaff is me
16:02:07 [Zakim]
+stearns; got it
16:02:07 [Katie]
Katie has joined #css
16:02:13 [Zakim]
+antonp; got it
16:02:14 [fantasai]
sylvaing: http://lea.verou.me/2012/08/lea-at-w3-org/
16:02:15 [florian]
Zakim, aacc has lstorset
16:02:17 [Zakim]
+??P43
16:02:24 [Zakim]
sorry, florian, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:02:26 [glenn]
zakim, ??p43 is me
16:02:32 [Zakim]
+??P45
16:02:34 [Zakim]
+glenn; got it
16:02:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.636.aahh
16:02:47 [smfr]
Zakin, aahh is me
16:02:50 [florian]
Zakim, florian has lstorset
16:02:50 [Zakim]
+lstorset; got it
16:03:23 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.aa]
16:03:41 [arronei_]
zakim, microsoft has me
16:03:41 [Zakim]
+arronei_; got it
16:03:44 [smfr]
maybe lea can get them to fix zakim
16:04:00 [glazou]
eheh
16:04:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.766.aaii
16:04:15 [dbaron]
Zakim, aaii is dbaron
16:04:15 [Zakim]
+dbaron; got it
16:04:25 [glazou]
Zakim, who is here?
16:04:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fantasai, glazou, cabanier, Bert, sylvaing, florian, ??P24, +1.415.308.aadd, [Microsoft], stearns, antonp, [Microsoft.a], +1.604.312.aagg, glenn, ??P45,
16:04:29 [Zakim]
... +1.408.636.aahh, [Microsoft.aa], dbaron
16:04:29 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has arronei_
16:04:29 [Zakim]
florian has lstorset
16:04:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Katie, smfr, JohnJansen, florian, lstorset, dstorey, antonp, dbaron, cabanier, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Ms2ger, glenn, Ankh, florianr, drublic, SimonSapin, leaverou,
16:04:33 [fantasai]
ScribeNick: fantasai
16:04:36 [Zakim]
... SteveZ, krijnh, arronei_, isherman, TabAtkins, shepazu, decadance, alexmog, sylvaing, shans, vhardy, CSSWG_LogBot, logbot, Bert, jwir3, dglazkov, gsnedders, stearns, trackbot,
16:04:39 [Zakim]
... heycam|away, paul___irish, hober, fantasai, plinss, Hixie
16:04:43 [fantasai]
glazou: any additions to agenda?
16:04:43 [TabAtkins_]
TabAtkins_ has joined #css
16:04:48 [glazou]
http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sandiego-2012#participants
16:04:53 [JohnJansen_]
JohnJansen_ has joined #css
16:05:08 [fantasai]
glazou: If you plan to attend or not attend, please add your name to the wiki so we know who is coming / when / where
16:05:19 [Zakim]
-??P24
16:05:25 [JohnJansen_]
Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
16:05:25 [Zakim]
+JohnJansen; got it
16:05:25 [fantasai]
Florian: For TPAC meeting, Opera is joining Adobe as a sponsor
16:05:40 [fantasai]
glazou: Thank you very much
16:05:44 [fantasai]
glazou: Any other organization?
16:05:46 [Katie]
zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has me
16:05:46 [Zakim]
+Katie; got it
16:05:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.281.305.aajj
16:05:57 [Zakim]
+??P59
16:06:19 [fantasai]
Glenn: Sunday before or Sunday after?
16:06:21 [fantasai]
glazou: before
16:06:29 [cabanier]
link: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/rawfile/4b53107dd95d/compositing/index.html
16:06:29 [fantasai]
Topic: Compositing FPWD
16:06:31 [glazou]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/rawfile/tip/compositing/index.html
16:07:01 [fantasai]
Rik: SVGWG already approved to move to FPWD
16:07:09 [fantasai]
Rik: Think the spec is in reasonable shape.
16:07:16 [fantasai]
Rik: need to get more consensus on CSS keywords
16:07:23 [fantasai]
Rik: There are many; some people requesed fewer
16:07:33 [fantasai]
Rik: As WD will get more exposure
16:07:38 [fantasai]
Rik: e.g. dbaron gave me very good feedback
16:07:44 [fantasai]
Rik: Think it's in readable shape, would like to move to WD
16:07:51 [fantasai]
glazou: Opinions?
16:07:59 [fantasai]
Florian: I haven't read everything, but I like it so, yeah
16:08:16 [stearns]
Tab: I approve
16:08:23 [fantasai]
dbaron: The biggest thing I was worried about was z-ordering stuff, possible I confused people
16:08:26 [Zakim]
+SteveZ
16:08:36 [fantasai]
dbaron: If it's either fixed, or there's a note that it needs to be fixed, I'm ok with it
16:08:41 [krit]
krit has joined #css
16:08:46 [fantasai]
Rik: I rewrote it with stacking context, like you said, and linked to Appendix E
16:09:02 [krit]
Zakim, who os here?
16:09:02 [fantasai]
Rik: ... add an example that shows what is happening, ppl will not get confused.
16:09:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, krit.
16:09:14 [krit]
Zakim, who is here?
16:09:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fantasai, glazou, cabanier, Bert, sylvaing, florian, +1.415.308.aadd, [Microsoft], stearns, antonp, [Microsoft.a], +1.604.312.aagg, glenn, ??P45,
16:09:28 [Zakim]
... +1.408.636.aahh, [Microsoft.aa], dbaron, +1.281.305.aajj, ??P59, SteveZ
16:09:29 [TabAtkins_]
ScribeNick: TabAtkins
16:09:30 [Zakim]
[Microsoft.aa] has Katie
16:09:32 [Zakim]
florian has lstorset
16:09:34 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has JohnJansen
16:09:38 [TabAtkins_]
glazou: So, no objections against FPWD of compositing?
16:09:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see krit, TabAtkins_, Katie, smfr, florian, lstorset, dstorey, antonp, dbaron, cabanier, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Ms2ger, glenn, Ankh, florianr, drublic, SimonSapin,
16:09:42 [krit]
Zakim, aadd is me
16:09:45 [Zakim]
... leaverou, SteveZ, krijnh, arronei_, isherman, TabAtkins, shepazu, decadance, alexmog, sylvaing, shans, vhardy, CSSWG_LogBot, logbot, Bert, jwir3, dglazkov, gsnedders, stearns,
16:09:47 [TabAtkins_]
glazou: Okay, so let's do that.
16:09:48 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #css
16:09:53 [Zakim]
... trackbot, heycam|away, paul___irish, hober, fantasai, plinss, Hixie
16:09:55 [TabAtkins_]
RESOLVED: Publish FPWD of the Compositing draft.
16:09:57 [Zakim]
-fantasai
16:10:00 [rbetts]
rbetts has joined #css
16:10:02 [JohnJansen]
Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
16:10:14 [Zakim]
+krit; got it
16:10:19 [Zakim]
JohnJansen was already listed in [Microsoft], JohnJansen
16:10:23 [Zakim]
+fantasai
16:10:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.619.846.aakk
16:10:38 [fantasai]
glazou: Anything else wrt compositing?
16:10:43 [fantasai]
Topic: Flexbox
16:10:43 [TabAtkins_]
Topic: Flexbox
16:10:55 [fantasai]
Bert: It's part of CSS and SVG, who does the publishing, is that me?
16:11:14 [fantasai]
Rik: I think it's part of CSS, so we opened a Bugzilla as part of CSS
16:11:31 [fantasai]
Rik: FX will not get as much exposure, and it's not specific to SVG, just adding CSS properties
16:11:40 [fantasai]
Rik: Let me know if I need to change anything
16:11:48 [glazou]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/
16:11:48 [hober]
Zakim, aakk is me
16:11:48 [Zakim]
+hober; got it
16:11:49 [fantasai]
ACTION Bert: Publish Compositing FPWD
16:11:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-487 - Publish Compositing FPWD [on Bert Bos - due 2012-08-08].
16:11:52 [fantasai]
TOpic: Flexbox
16:12:13 [fantasai]
Tab: We concluded last week with some resolutions that should cover what we need to do, and left actual resolutions to me and fantasai
16:12:36 [fantasai]
Tab: We tried to go with Option D, and to match it thematically with how abspos works in block layout
16:12:53 [fantasai]
Tab: You look for your next/previous item and attach it there
16:13:08 [fantasai]
Tab: fantasai worked out how to treat it as a placeholder and just do some packing-space suppression
16:13:27 [fantasai]
Florian: As long as Morten is happy, it's good with me
16:13:39 [fantasai]
szilles: If there's a sequence of abspos, they are processed and attached to the same edge
16:13:42 [fantasai]
fantasai: yes
16:13:53 [fantasai]
szilles: And order means that I don't choose the adjacent edge until after I've finished reordering.
16:14:02 [fantasai]
szilles: If you could make the wording a little more obvious in that direciton, would be helpful
16:14:15 [fantasai]
Tab: wrt first one, we do talk about in-flow items--abspos is out of flow
16:14:25 [fantasai]
Tab: Second one, we're explicit that you run reordering first.
16:14:42 [fantasai]
Florian: Maybe clarify in a note or something
16:14:57 [fantasai]
Morten's response - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0023.html
16:15:04 [fantasai]
szilles: great job
16:15:23 [fantasai]
Tab: One bit that's important, last week WG officially resolved that 'order' doesn't apply to abspos
16:15:36 [fantasai]
Tab: Wanted to ask WG if ok with reverting that.
16:15:46 [fantasai]
Tab: As written right now, order affects the abspos.
16:16:17 [fantasai]
Florian: Sounds fine to me. Was only concerned about applying to placeholders.
16:16:22 [arno]
arno has joined #css
16:16:23 [fantasai]
Tab: Morten's ok with it, and chrome is ok today
16:17:00 [fantasai]
Anton: I'm wondering, do we expect abspos static positioning to work with layout models in this way?
16:17:19 [fantasai]
Anton: It's ok, but I think we need to think about the consequences with other layout models
16:17:25 [fantasai]
Anton: Note also that float or clear doesn't affect abspos
16:18:01 [fantasai]
Anton: Might decide that's an anomaly
16:18:10 [fantasai]
fantasai: or maybe it was added for compat
16:18:48 [fantasai]
Tab: Could have principle that do layout, then position abspos
16:19:02 [fantasai]
dbaron: Concerned about that. Don't really want to do layout
16:19:14 [fantasai]
...
16:19:44 [fantasai]
Florian: I think it's in line with what we called the Rossen Principle. In block layout, if you abspos and don't give coordinates it goes where it would have been
16:19:50 [fantasai]
Florian: Flexbox does roughly the same thing
16:19:58 [fantasai]
Florian: Don't think anything very different here wrt high-level view
16:20:24 [fantasai]
Tab: I think dbaron just wants a clarification of whether for future models you do any work
16:20:55 [fantasai]
Florian: Hard to discuss without a specific case in mind
16:21:06 [fantasai]
Rossen: Wrt Grid, we always position in the origin of a grid cell in Grid
16:21:29 [fantasai]
Rossen: You honor grid-row/grid-column positioning, but otherwise put in origin
16:21:59 [fantasai]
Rossen: I do agree that higher-order question of should follow block/flow layout model in other layout models, where that doesn't make any sense?
16:22:22 [fantasai]
Rossen: Or go with something simpler, like Tab was suggesting (origin of flex container) last week
16:22:32 [dbaron]
Rossen: I'm still in favor of going for something simpler in layout models that have no concept of flow.
16:22:48 [fantasai]
...
16:23:08 [fantasai]
szilles: Positioning of flexboxes is ...
16:23:24 [dbaron]
For reference, my position in last week's straw poll would have been A.
16:23:38 [fantasai]
Tab: Want to request resolution of reversing order, and of going to CR
16:23:54 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: order affects abspos, Flexbox goes to CR
16:24:11 [fantasai]
ACTION Bert: send Flexbox CR transition request
16:24:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-488 - Send Flexbox CR transition request [on Bert Bos - due 2012-08-08].
16:24:49 [fantasai]
dbaron: The idea of this model is that you apply order to the abspos to figure out where it goes in the order, and then use that as the static positoin?
16:24:53 [fantasai]
Tab: yes
16:25:30 [fantasai]
Anton: You're not really treating it as a flex item, you're using order to figure out which item is the next/previous item to attach its position to
16:25:46 [fantasai]
dbaron: So I'm not really happy with adding 100 lines of code for something I haven't heard a use case for
16:25:53 [fantasai]
Tab: Brad produced some things in the mail thread
16:26:39 [fantasai]
fantasai: ...
16:26:46 [fantasai]
glazou: But you are not objecting to the change?
16:26:49 [fantasai]
dbaron: No. Close to it, but no.
16:26:55 [fantasai]
glazou: Ok, let's move on
16:26:58 [fantasai]
Topic: Transforms
16:27:03 [glazou]
http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/transform-interpolation
16:27:20 [fantasai]
Krit: Issue was ...
16:27:45 [fantasai]
Krit: Request from implementers that we don't do that, that we interpolate on each function pair
16:27:57 [fantasai]
Krit: So changed the spec to do interpolate on function pairs
16:28:13 [fantasai]
Krit: For perspective we do matrix decompse then interpolate [??]
16:28:22 [fantasai]
Krit: Thought it'd be a perf issue, but browsers didn't think so
16:28:40 [fantasai]
Krit: Have request from smfr that functions along same axis are interpolated, not matrix
16:28:56 [fantasai]
glazou: In thread WebKit says they can't change to the preferred way anyway
16:29:02 [fantasai]
smfr: Could, but would prefer not to
16:29:23 [fantasai]
dbaron: I was originally askin ght espec change back to what it used to be
16:29:30 [glazou]
s/in thread/in wiki
16:29:42 [fantasai]
dbaron: Also worried in general that this spec changes too much in ways that are incompatible with Web content
16:29:58 [fantasai]
dbaron: Afraid might have to come back 3 months and have to request revert of changes
16:30:03 [fantasai]
dbaron: But can't say sooner than 3 months
16:30:10 [fantasai]
Krit: Can you be more specific?
16:30:17 [fantasai]
dbaron: There's a lot of content using this
16:30:41 [fantasai]
dbaron: They stuff the result of all prefixed values into the same variable and use it the same way
16:30:47 [fantasai]
dbaron: prefixes isn't getting us anything ehre
16:31:06 [fantasai]
smfr: Risk of interpolating transforms is in cases where we used to not do convert then decompose, cases where we would now if we change the spec
16:31:17 [fantasai]
smfr: The spec is going away from using matrix interpolation, which is a good thing
16:31:28 [fantasai]
dbaron: Yes, worried about changing things *to* matrix interpolation
16:31:49 [fantasai]
Krit: ... feedback on specific part that need changed, I change it
16:31:58 [fantasai]
dbaron: was specified when I implemented it. If it's not anynmore, someone deleted it
16:32:03 [fantasai]
smfr: notion of premitives and derived
16:32:13 [sylvaing]
I am also worried about making incompatible changes at this point
16:32:14 [fantasai]
smfr: e.g. translateX will interolated with translate
16:32:21 [fantasai]
smfr: WebKit didn't implement that
16:32:25 [fantasai]
Krit: ...
16:32:34 [fantasai]
Florian: I'm not very up to speed on how this behaves, but do completely agree with dbaron
16:32:37 [dbaron]
Gecko implemented that a few weeks ago, but we haven't shipped it yet.
16:32:38 [sylvaing]
at a minimum testcases showing some level of interop are warranted
16:32:46 [fantasai]
Florian: Used too much to be changed without trouble
16:32:49 [sylvaing]
(or lack thereof)
16:32:57 [fantasai]
Florian: Need to document things, but not change suboptimal behavior
16:33:10 [fantasai]
smfr: But whose implementation do we pick? Webkit, Gecko, Opera, IE?
16:33:22 [fantasai]
sylvaing: Need to write some test cases to figure that out
16:33:34 [fantasai]
Krit: These changes several months ago,
16:33:54 [fantasai]
Krit: even translatex and translate, was something not specified before, just sayd "transform function of he same type", had to address, what does "same type" even mean
16:34:02 [fantasai]
Krit: So we said "transform function with same name"
16:34:12 [fantasai]
Krit: This is different from editors
16:34:21 [fantasai]
Krit: I'm fine with changing everything to match transform names
16:34:33 [fantasai]
Krit: Still think it's useful for translate functions to interpolate
16:34:42 [fantasai]
Krit: e.g. you have translate() and translateX()
16:34:51 [fantasai]
Krit: with your interpretation we need to decompose to a matrix
16:34:58 [fantasai]
Krit: whereas I would prefer a numeric intrpolation
16:35:01 [fantasai]
smfr: I agree, that's better
16:35:10 [fantasai]
smfr: I think that's safe, because in the direction of less matrix interpolation
16:35:25 [fantasai]
Krit: Same issue with scaleX
16:35:33 [krit]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#transform-primitives
16:35:52 [fantasai]
Krit: Things that are affected are scale(), translate3D() and ??
16:35:59 [fantasai]
Krit: Not sure that's implemented by browsers, I don't think so
16:36:05 [fantasai]
Krit: But from our pov seems useful
16:36:10 [fantasai]
smfr: Seems unlikely that these changes break content
16:36:23 [fantasai]
smfr: one thing that happens when you fall into matrix interpolation is that you lose rotations greater than 360 deg
16:36:41 [fantasai]
smfr: So if someone has a high deg rotation and has one of these functions, you fall into matrix interpolation
16:36:47 [fantasai]
smfr: might be ppl doing that now
16:36:59 [fantasai]
Krit: second request, you said you'd like to interpolate between that and ....??????
16:37:11 [fantasai]
Krit: so rotations around same axis, would like to interpolate
16:37:23 [fantasai]
smfr: WebKit will interpolate between rotate?() and rotate??()
16:37:33 [fantasai]
smfr: And for rotate3d() will check if axes match, otherwise go to matrix path
16:37:40 [fantasai]
smfr: that's just for that 1 function
16:37:59 [fantasai]
smfr: I believe it will fill due to transform individualy in the list if there are rotate3Ds in corresponding places even if axes are different
16:38:14 [fantasai]
dbaron is fine with that
16:38:23 [fantasai]
Krit: Everything else, implementers requested it. So should be ok
16:38:49 [fantasai]
Florian: In general I would like to see test cases for these, to check if we are picking the interoperable solution
16:39:32 [fantasai]
Florian: If there is a difference, we need to figure out whether we want good or compatible
16:39:42 [dbaron]
It's really easy to write script tests for interpolation by using a negative transition-delay.
16:39:45 [fantasai]
Florian: These are used a lot out there, so we can't break compatibility
16:39:51 [fantasai]
some question of how to write testcases
16:40:01 [fantasai]
fantasai: Can always write a manual test
16:40:17 [drublic]
drublic has joined #css
16:40:26 [fantasai]
fantasai: That's good enough to see what browsers are doing for purpose of speccing it
16:40:30 [jet]
jet has joined #CSS
16:40:46 [fantasai]
Topic: CSS2.1
16:40:53 [glazou]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JulSep/0090.html
16:41:03 [JohnJansen]
JohnJansen has joined #css
16:41:21 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JulSep/0101.html
16:41:32 [glazou]
first issue is marked as [A] ?!? shocking :-)
16:41:32 [fantasai]
Anton: First one is follow-up on adding concept of formatting contexts
16:41:42 [fantasai]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17121#c2 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17121#c5 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17122#c1 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15686#c2
16:41:58 [fantasai]
Anton: Rossen wanted it clearer when a box establishes an inline formatting context
16:42:26 [fantasai]
fantasai: Those edits all look good to me
16:42:42 [fantasai]
Anton: proposal to satisfy Rossen is https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17121#c5
16:42:54 [fantasai]
Anton: This was what was implied in the text before, now just explicitly stating it
16:43:09 [fantasai]
Rossen: Change sounds good to me
16:43:26 [stearns]
looks good to me
16:43:31 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Accept edits listed above
16:43:42 [fantasai]
Item B
16:43:58 [fantasai]
Anton: We raised issue that there was no interop on whether overflow affects wrapper box or table box
16:44:09 [fantasai]
Anton: Agreed to implement whatever most widely implemented
16:44:13 [fantasai]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17121#c5
16:44:24 [antonp]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17505#c6
16:44:57 [fantasai]
Anton: Answer was some UAs are using the table box (Gecko and Trident) whereas WebKit and Opera 12 seemd to apply to wrapper box but doing something weird
16:45:16 [fantasai]
Anton: Which one resolve to?
16:45:49 [fantasai]
fantasai: height applies to table box, so makes sense for overflow to also apply to table box
16:45:58 [fantasai]
dbaron: What values of overflow apply to the table box?
16:46:08 [fantasai]
Anton: Didn't investigate that one. Personally tested overflow: hidden
16:46:28 [fantasai]
Florian: We'll align with whatever sensible behavior we agree on
16:47:20 [fantasai]
fantasai: Do we want to resolve that 'overflow' applies to the table box, and later figure out whether 'overflow: scroll' applies?
16:47:30 [fantasai]
dbaron: I'm reading the spec, and the spec says overflow doesn't apply to tables
16:47:40 [fantasai]
Anton: We have bugs, we know that is kind-of wrong
16:47:59 [fantasai]
Anton: In reality it does apply to tables, it's a question of which box it applies to
16:48:08 [fantasai]
Anton: The formatting context edits will fix the Applies to line
16:48:18 [fantasai]
Anton: But first we have to resolve on is the table box or table wrapper box
16:48:41 [fantasai]
Florian: Test results sound good enough reason to say apply to table box
16:49:02 [Rossen]
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16:49:10 [Zakim]
-krit
16:49:24 [fantasai]
Florian: Is anyone disagreeing?
16:49:35 [fantasai]
Bert: Don't see how it would affect table
16:49:45 [Zakim]
-??P45
16:49:49 [fantasai]
fantasai: could have a fixed-height div inside a cell, that has overflowing content
16:49:51 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.aaa]
16:50:03 [fantasai]
Anton: Question is where do we truncate it, or where do we put the scroll bar
16:50:04 [arno]
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16:50:10 [Rossen]
Zakim, [Microsoft.aaa] is me
16:50:10 [Zakim]
+Rossen; got it
16:50:23 [fantasai]
Bert: Isn't it easiest to say it doesn't apply?
16:51:26 [fantasai]
glazou: I'm still not hearing any important change or removal on this issue...
16:51:43 [fantasai]
glazou: Do we need more time?
16:52:22 [fantasai]
dbaron: I'm trying to figure out why we do anything for overflow on tables
16:52:26 [fantasai]
dbaron: I haven't found the code yet
16:53:24 [fantasai]
dbaron: I'm concerned about saying that overflow applies to tables
16:53:35 [fantasai]
dbaron: Not sure anyone applies values other than 'hidden' to tables
16:53:37 [sylvaing]
+1
16:54:16 [fantasai]
Anton: The spec used to say it applied to tables, but during the terminology fixes, it accidentally got removed
16:54:23 [fantasai]
Anton: Separate question of whether we want that or not
16:54:58 [fantasai]
Florian: Not exactly excited for 'overflow: paged' applying to tables
16:55:17 [fantasai]
dbaron: Found list of where we support 'overflow: hidden' but not other overflow values --
16:55:25 [fantasai]
dbaron: table cells, tables, and SVG stuff
16:55:35 [dbaron]
table, table cell, svg:svg, svg:foreignObject
16:55:45 [fantasai]
Florian: Is anyone interested in other values on table
16:56:00 [fantasai]
Florian: Or should we just spec that only 'hidden' applies
16:57:49 [Zakim]
-Rossen
16:58:07 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
16:58:08 [fantasai]
glazou: suggest deferring to next week
16:58:19 [fantasai]
Arronei offers to help Anton work on testcases
16:59:33 [fantasai]
Topic: CSS3 Text
16:59:53 [glazou]
because it's almost ended
17:00:15 [fantasai]
fantasai: Thinking about publishing WD
17:00:20 [fantasai]
fantasai: Would like people to review
17:00:24 [Rossen]
in that case - talk to you next week :-)
17:00:26 [Zakim]
- +1.604.312.aagg
17:00:32 [fantasai]
fantasai: Also thinking about splitting it, with text decoration parts in separate module
17:00:43 [Zakim]
-dbaron
17:00:48 [Zakim]
-glenn
17:00:51 [Zakim]
-hober
17:00:52 [rbetts]
Zakim, aagg was rbetts
17:00:52 [Zakim]
-SteveZ
17:00:52 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aagg was rbetts', rbetts
17:00:53 [Zakim]
- +1.281.305.aajj
17:00:54 [Zakim]
-fantasai
17:01:00 [stearns]
antonp: I have a couple questions on your item [C] we didn't get to today
17:01:02 [Zakim]
- +1.408.636.aahh
17:01:05 [fantasai]
szilles: where would parts common to both go?
17:01:07 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.aa]
17:01:08 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
17:01:09 [fantasai]
fantasai: There aren't really any
17:01:34 [fantasai]
fantasai: It's a very long module
17:01:48 [fantasai]
glazou: Everyone, please add agenda items to F2F wiki
17:01:48 [Zakim]
-florian
17:01:49 [Zakim]
-Bert
17:01:49 [Zakim]
-antonp
17:01:49 [Zakim]
-glazou
17:01:51 [Zakim]
-sylvaing
17:01:53 [fantasai]
Meeting closed.
17:01:55 [Zakim]
-stearns
17:02:01 [Zakim]
-cabanier
17:02:20 [glazou]
fantasai: ask cabanier
17:02:23 [Zakim]
-??P59
17:02:24 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
17:02:24 [Zakim]
Attendees were fantasai, glazou, +1.206.675.aaaa, Bert, cabanier, +1.206.324.aabb, sylvaing, +47.23.69.aacc, +1.415.308.aadd, JohnJansen, +1.206.390.aaee, +93550aaff, [Microsoft],
17:02:24 [Zakim]
... +1.604.312.aagg, stearns, antonp, glenn, +1.408.636.aahh, lstorset, arronei_, +1.415.766.aaii, dbaron, Katie, +1.281.305.aajj, SteveZ, krit, +1.619.846.aakk, hober, Rossen
17:03:10 [stearns]
s/cabinier/krit/
17:03:15 [stearns]
for transforms stuff
17:03:29 [stearns]
grr - cabanier
17:03:38 [cabanier]
:-)
17:04:07 [stearns]
antonp: ping
17:06:20 [krit]
stearns: was my name on transforms stuff?!?
17:06:35 [fantasai]
krit: I need help fixing holes in the minutes :)
17:06:58 [krit]
oh, looking
17:06:59 [stearns]
krit: look back for ??? in the minutes when you were speaking, and see if you can fill in the details
17:08:02 [krit]
s/So we said "transform function with same name"/So we say "transform function with same name"?/
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17:08:43 [fantasai]
lol
17:08:49 [fantasai]
I can fix all the typos and things :)
17:08:53 [fantasai]
it's the missing info that I can't fix!
17:09:03 [stearns]
you can make stuff up
17:09:05 [krit]
s/Things that are affected are scale(), translate3D() and ??/Things that are affected are scale(), translate(), translate3d() and scale3d()
17:09:33 [krit]
stearns: ?
17:09:52 [stearns]
(sorry, lame attempt at humor)
17:10:12 [krit]
ahhh. Don't use make-up :P
17:12:32 [krit]
s/second request, you said you'd like to interpolate between that and ….??????/second request, you said you'd like to interpolate between rotate3d along same axis?/
17:14:23 [stearns]
antonp: added my questions to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18346
17:14:26 [krit]
s/WebKit will interpolate between rotate?() and rotate??()/WebKit will interpolate between rotateZ() and rotate()/
17:14:45 [krit]
fantasai: think that are the important information
17:14:51 [fantasai]
thanks krit!
17:16:51 [antonp]
Thanks Alan, I'll address them
17:21:59 [antonp]
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19:02:15 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: I'm heading to MV to meet up with aharon tomorrow. Want to hang out afterwards and work on stuff?
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