IRC log of wcag2ict on 2012-07-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:52:19 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs world
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Zakim, this will be 2428
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
13:52:24 [trackbot]
Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:52:24 [trackbot]
Date: 31 July 2012
13:52:31 [Andi]
chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:53:49 [Andi]
regrets: Loïc_Martínez_Normand, Kiran_Kaja, Bruce_Bailey, Mike_Pluke
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rrsagent, off
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13:58:13 [janina]
zakim, ??P1 is Janina
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+Janina; got it
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13:59:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.608.514.aaaa
13:59:55 [David]
David has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:06 [Andi]
zakim, aaaa is Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:00:06 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
14:00:38 [Zakim]
14:00:42 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:56 [Zakim]
14:01:16 [Andi]
zakim, [Microsoft] has Alex_Li
14:01:16 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li; got it
14:01:37 [Alex]
Alex has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:08 [korn]
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14:02:24 [Zakim]
14:04:23 [Zakim]
14:04:34 [Andi]
topic: Open action items
14:04:35 [Andi]
14:04:43 [Andi]
scribe: Andi
14:05:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.510.334.aabb
14:05:03 [Judy]
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14:05:08 [Judy]
scribe: Judy
14:05:14 [korn]
Zakim, aabb has Peter_Korn
14:05:14 [Zakim]
+Peter_Korn; got it
14:05:16 [Andi]
zakim, aabb is Peter_Korn
14:05:16 [Zakim]
+Peter_Korn; got it
14:05:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.255.aacc
14:06:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.447.aadd
14:06:14 [Judy]
14:06:23 [Judy]
topic: Action Item Check
14:06:48 [MaryJo]
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14:07:37 [korn]
14:08:05 [Judy]
Need feedback on "user interface context" language before it goes to survey. Discussion today would be good.
14:09:38 [Judy]
For any action items that we need to keep moving, tell Andi about them, and work out an updated date.
14:09:42 [MaryJo]
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14:09:59 [Judy]
Need to identify is any action items have been overtaken by events (OBE).
14:11:02 [Judy]
Andi will be trying to have her action items ready by Friday.
14:11:25 [Zakim]
- +1.202.447.aadd
14:11:42 [korn]
14:11:53 [korn]
14:12:06 [Andi]
14:12:10 [Judy]
Collecting page with all the different uses of "software interaction" term, so that we can compare usages and sort out what to do.
14:12:30 [Judy]
s/software interaction/software aspects/
14:14:03 [korn]
14:14:18 [Judy]
zakim, who's here?
14:14:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, Janina, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], Judy, Michael_Cooper, Peter_Korn, +1.512.255.aacc
14:14:21 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has Alex_Li
14:14:21 [Zakim]
Peter_Korn has Peter_Korn
14:14:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MaryJo, Judy, korn, Alex, greggvanderheiden, David, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, Andi, MichaelC, Mike, trackbot
14:15:51 [Judy]
zakim, +1.512.255 is MaryJo
14:15:51 [Zakim]
+MaryJo; got it
14:16:08 [Judy]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Alex_Li
14:16:08 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li; got it
14:17:30 [Judy]
David M will work on chart of terms related to software user interface
14:19:46 [Judy]
scribe: MaryJo
14:22:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.447.aaee
14:22:34 [MaryJo]
GV: The the example in the last submission in the WIKI may be we're looking for - in proposal #4.
14:22:57 [MaryJo]
PK: Will look at the example today.
14:23:58 [MaryJo]
AS: Want an example of something that falls out of the range.
14:24:12 [MaryJo]
GV: Will change the example to reflect that.
14:29:17 [MaryJo]
Topic: Moving forward with the rest of the work.
14:29:30 [Judy]
14:29:58 [MaryJo]
AS: Review due date is Sept. 7. August should be used to complete the final 7 success criteria.
14:30:13 [korn]
14:30:15 [korn]
14:30:18 [MaryJo]
AS: To get consensus on the remaining SC.
14:30:39 [Zakim]
- +1.202.447.aaee
14:32:01 [MaryJo]
Judy: Congrats on getting the draft document out for review and thanks goes to the team for your hard work.
14:32:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.447.aaff
14:32:23 [Andi]
ack j
14:32:34 [MaryJo]
AS: Thanks to Michael Cooper for pulling together the draft for release.
14:33:27 [korn]
14:33:38 [MaryJo]
PK: We had discussions about the frontmatter and introduction that still needs work. There are potential workscope changes. We also may want to tackle conformance.
14:34:25 [MaryJo]
AS: We need to first concentrate on what is needed for M376, so the success criteria must be done and the terms must be complete as well.
14:34:29 [Judy]
14:34:34 [Andi]
ack j
14:34:50 [korn]
14:35:37 [MaryJo]
Judy: We need to have our work done 2 to 3 weeks prior to the October 8 date for the M376 final draft.
14:37:00 [korn]
14:37:06 [MaryJo]
AS: As we reach consensus on each of the remaining success criteria, can we send those to the WCAG group to prevent sending them all until closer to the end date?
14:38:05 [MaryJo]
Judy: Yes, we can do that.
14:38:36 [MaryJo]
AS: Terminology and cross-cutting issues need to be part of the remaining success criteria work.
14:43:09 [Andi]
ack k
14:43:39 [MaryJo]
Judy: We have many considerations on the timing of our next public draft, but it needs to be covered in an editors' call.
14:44:58 [MaryJo]
AS: We'll have to be prepared to focus on the comments we receive on our current draft due on Sept. 7. We'll need to formally respond to these comments.
14:46:10 [MaryJo]
Judy: We can work on responses to the comments as we receive them, so can begin handling comments received prior to the due date.
14:46:59 [MaryJo]
AS: If responses are formal, we'll have to draft proposed responses to the comments and approve them prior to sending the response.
14:47:49 [MaryJo]
AS: Concerned that time will be an issue if 90 percent of comments are received in the last few days of the review period.
14:48:27 [MaryJo]
AS: This means we need to complete our remaining work ASAP so we are free to handle comments on our current public draft.
14:49:10 [MaryJo]
Topic: Discuss user interaction context
14:49:22 [Andi]
14:49:52 [Andi]
14:50:31 [Zakim]
- +1.202.447.aaff
14:52:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.447.aagg
14:53:26 [korn]
14:53:43 [MaryJo]
GV: We added the phrase '(by an author)' to the definition to make it clearer that it is only the part that is authored as part of the software.
14:58:19 [Andi]
ack k
14:58:25 [korn]
14:59:03 [MaryJo]
GV: Added note 8 to the definition to cover Peter's concern about menus.
15:00:12 [greggvanderheiden]
15:00:32 [MaryJo]
PK: The above link is to a page with a table to show how well the UI context works in each of the success criteria that have 'web page' or 'multiple web pages'.
15:02:53 [korn]
15:03:26 [MaryJo]
PK: Some of these SC we came to consensus with different terms. Some of these SC the terms we reached consensus with have more natural terms than 'UI context'. UI context is a newer term and may not be interpreted correctly by devlopers who understand existing terms bette.r
15:03:27 [korn]
15:04:17 [Andi]
ack g
15:04:21 [Andi]
15:05:11 [Alex]
15:06:47 [MaryJo]
GV: We haven't used 'top level frame' in any SC that we have consensed on. The 'UI context' term may not be the best for all of the SC and we may decide not to use it on the SC we already consensed on.
15:07:22 [Andi]
ack k
15:07:32 [Zakim]
15:07:53 [MaryJo]
PK: There are a couple of SC's that are in a 3rd category that say 'set of Web pages' that the term doesn't fit.
15:09:27 [greggvanderheiden]
15:09:58 [korn]
15:10:08 [MaryJo]
PK: 2.4.2 Page Titled - We do have consensed text that uses 'top-most explicit groupings of UI components'.
15:10:09 [Andi]
ack andi
15:10:34 [korn]
15:10:34 [Andi]
ack alex
15:10:40 [MaryJo]
AS: We want a term that works for an audio UI as well.
15:11:42 [MaryJo]
Alex: We need to define more clearly what kind of change causes it to be a new UI context.
15:12:19 [Andi]
ack gregg
15:15:48 [MaryJo]
GV: In 2.4.2 we weren't using 'top level frame' as a substitute for 'web page'. In addition, that term is somewhat ambiguous.
15:17:35 [MaryJo]
GV: The term 'change in context is ambiguous', but in WCAG it is also ambiguous.
15:17:46 [Andi]
ack k
15:18:57 [MaryJo]
PK: Propose we walk through the 8 success criterion that use 'Web page' or 'set of Web pages' to see how the term 'UI context' either fits or doesn't fit.
15:19:06 [Andi]
15:22:03 [greggvanderheiden]
15:23:44 [Andi]
15:23:49 [Andi]
ack gregg
15:24:05 [korn]
15:25:38 [MaryJo]
PK: 2.4.1 bypass blocks: Thinks 'top level frame' or 'window' works better than 'UI context'.
15:25:49 [Andi]
ack andi
15:26:50 [MaryJo]
PK: Graphics editor with multiple palettes which is a modal window (e.g. Adobe Editor). Each of those palettes is a 'top level frame'.
15:28:02 [MaryJo]
PK: It is a child of the desktop that is tied to the application window. If you bring focus to that window, you interact only with the things in the palette.
15:29:09 [Zakim]
15:30:18 [greggvanderheiden]
I fell off and cannot log back in
15:30:30 [greggvanderheiden]
conference is 'restricted at this time"
15:30:54 [MaryJo]
PK: This provision has a problem that it is tied to 'multiple Web pages'. It would be better if it is structured into blocks that are skippable, regardless of whether or not there is repeated information.
15:30:57 [David]
15:31:02 [korn]
15:31:36 [greggvanderheiden]
multiple pages is not a problem
15:31:45 [Alex]
15:31:46 [greggvanderheiden]
it is just multiple UI contexs
15:31:51 [Zakim]
- +1.202.447.aagg
15:31:53 [greggvanderheiden]
and works perfectly
15:32:00 [greggvanderheiden]
15:32:04 [Alex]
15:32:09 [greggvanderheiden]
608 514 9539
15:32:19 [greggvanderheiden]
15:32:56 [greggvanderheiden]
multiple ui contexts works perfectly
15:32:57 [greggvanderheiden]
15:32:58 [greggvanderheiden]
15:33:26 [greggvanderheiden]
15:33:44 [Andi]
ack d
15:34:57 [Zakim]
15:35:30 [Andi]
scribe: Andi
15:37:10 [Andi]
GV: concern about top-level frame - menu is never repeated in the palettes - so there would never be a requirement to skip over anything
15:37:54 [Andi]
GV: top-level frame approach - 2 commands and content would be treated the same as one that has 77 commands and content
15:38:29 [Andi]
GV: not sure how to apply it going forward for new types of UI like audio
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15:39:34 [Zakim]
WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Janina, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, +1.608.514.aaaa, Gregg_Vanderheiden, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Judy, Michael_Cooper, Peter_Korn, +1.512.255.aacc,
15:39:34 [Zakim]
... +1.202.447.aadd, MaryJo, +1.202.447.aaee, +1.202.447.aaff, +1.202.447.aagg
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15:42:50 [Andi]
rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate Andi
15:43:13 [Andi]
zakim, bye
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15:44:42 [Andi]
s/The the example in the last submission/The example in the last submission/
15:45:50 [Andi]
s/Want an example of something that falls out of the range./Want an example of something that falls out of the range where the software just substitutes the highest or lowest value in the range. The user might not realize the value he or she entered was changed./
15:55:23 [Andi]
s/conference is 'restricted at this time"//
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s/I fell off and cannot log back in//
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s/608 514 9539//
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate Andi
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