15:00:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:00:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/31-html-media-irc
15:00:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 185
15:00:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
15:00:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
15:00:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:54 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:00:54 <trackbot> Date: 31 July 2012
15:01:09 <adrianba> zakim, this is HTML_WG
15:01:09 <Zakim> ok, adrianba; that matches HTML_WG()11:00AM
15:01:27 <Clarke> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P17, +1.352.870.aaaa, +1.206.218.aabb, [Microsoft]
15:01:39 <Clarke> zakim, ??P17 is me
15:01:39 <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
15:01:45 <NiXu> 352 is me
15:01:45 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:01:46 <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0094.html
15:01:52 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:01:52 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
15:03:09 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:03:09 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:03:17 <adrianba> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Clarke, +1.352.870.aaaa, +1.206.218.aabb, [Microsoft], adrianba
15:03:19 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
15:03:35 <adrianba> zakim, aaaa is NiXu
15:03:35 <Zakim> +NiXu; got it
15:03:44 <adrianba> zakim, aabb is acolwell
15:03:44 <Zakim> +acolwell; got it
15:03:54 <paulc> zakim, list attendees
15:03:54 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.352.870.aaaa, +1.206.218.aabb, Clarke, adrianba, paulc, NiXu, acolwell
15:03:59 <adrianba> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Clarke, NiXu, acolwell, [Microsoft], adrianba
15:04:00 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
15:04:31 <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianba
15:04:44 <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
15:04:48 <adrianba> Chair: Paul Cotton
15:04:58 <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0094.html
15:05:20 <whitech> whitech has joined #html-media
15:05:28 <adrianba> TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
15:05:32 <adrianba> paulc: done
15:05:40 <adrianba> TOPIC: Previous meeting minutes
15:05:45 <adrianba> http://www.w3.org/2012/07/14-html-media-minutes.html
15:05:58 <adrianba> TOPIC: Review of action items
15:06:20 <glenn> glenn has joined #html-media
15:06:31 <adrianba> paulc: no actions for MSE
15:06:56 <adrianba> TOPIC: Baseline documents and Bugzilla information
15:07:05 <adrianba> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
15:07:12 <adrianba> http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej
15:07:21 <adrianba> TOPIC: Actions from the previous meeting
15:07:30 <Zakim> +??P30
15:07:39 <adrianba> paulc: Moved SourceBufferList.remove() to MediaSource.removeSourceBuffer()
15:07:40 <glenn> zakim, ??p30 is glenn
15:07:40 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
15:07:48 <glenn> yes
15:07:55 <adrianba> ... this is bug 17082
15:08:05 <adrianba> ... marked as RESOLVED FIXED
15:08:14 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0062.html
15:08:17 <Zakim> +??P31
15:08:32 <adrianba> paulc: wanted to make sure everyone knew this was done
15:08:48 <adrianba> zakim, ??P31 is markw
15:08:49 <Zakim> +markw; got it
15:08:58 <adrianba> paulc: next item is Redesign mediaSourceURL mechanism to allow declarative syntax
15:09:05 <adrianba> ... bug 16997
15:09:13 <adrianba> ... marked as RESOLVED WONTFIX
15:09:29 <adrianba> ... those are the two items we pushed out of the way in the last meeting
15:09:39 <adrianba> paulc: next is Change sourceAppend() to take a URL and optional range parameters
15:09:48 <adrianba> ...bug 16998
15:09:54 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0074.html
15:10:20 <adrianba> paulc: i marked this in the agenda as needs more discussion - can we get an update?
15:10:40 <adrianba> acolwell: i summarised the old thread and tried to include the different perspectives
15:10:56 <adrianba> ... and suggested we should take a step back and reevaluate what we're doing
15:11:00 <adrianba> ... a lot of this looks like XHR
15:11:14 <adrianba> ... so maybe we could use that instead of building this into MSE
15:11:26 <adrianba> ...mark responded which i haven't had time to reply
15:11:41 <adrianba> ...seemed to agree but nobody else has so i don't know if we have agreement
15:11:54 <adrianba> paulc: one other response
15:12:04 <adrianba> acolwell: yes, i need to review this
15:12:37 <adrianba> paulc: are your questions trying to break bug 16998 into separate bugs or just enumerate the hard questions to resolve the bug
15:12:47 <adrianba> acolwell: i think part is to split the bug into 2 pieces
15:12:56 <adrianba> ... one requirement is about rate limiting appends
15:13:06 <adrianba> ... and then there's the i want to append with either a URL or a blob
15:13:36 <adrianba> ... one is a way for the UA to control how quickly the app can append things and the other about whether you avoid the data coming into JavaScript
15:13:51 <adrianba> ... so i think there are two issues that i was trying to solve in one go but maybe should be separate
15:14:09 <adrianba> ... i was hoping to get some feedback from people on the appending about which feels more natural
15:14:10 <adrianba> q+
15:14:16 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
15:14:23 <paulc> ack adr
15:14:48 <adrianba> adrianba: haven't looked in detail yet - happy to take the action to provide Microsoft's feedback by the next call
15:15:15 <adrianba> paulc: i think you mean replying to aaron's original mail and at least determine if we can resolve by splitting as he proposed
15:15:31 <adrianba> paulc: is there anything else we can do now?
15:15:35 <adrianba> acolwell: no
15:15:54 <adrianba> paulc: i'll carry this item forward and we can decide in two weeks if and how to split the bug
15:16:04 <adrianba> paulc: Define a timestamp offset mechanism
15:16:12 <adrianba> ... bug 17004
15:16:21 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0035.html
15:16:36 <adrianba> paulc: this was summarised earlier and then a few replies
15:16:51 <adrianba> acolwell: the discussion continued and then yesterday i published spec updates that include this
15:17:10 <adrianba> ...was going down the path of having a stack and then proposed that we could have that in JS alone
15:17:16 <adrianba> ... and went back to the simple mechanism
15:17:23 <Zakim> +??P12
15:17:25 <adrianba> ... and there were no objections after a short discussion
15:17:29 <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0095.html
15:17:36 <adrianba> ... so i updated the spec
15:17:45 <adrianba> paulc: that includes 17004 and some other changes?
15:17:52 <adrianba> acolwell: yes - not mentioned in the agenda
15:18:01 <adrianba> ... also has the duration changes that were discussed
15:18:07 <BobLund> zakim, ??P12 is me
15:18:07 <Zakim> +BobLund; got it
15:18:21 <adrianba> paulc: bug 17004 is now marked RESOLVED FIXED
15:18:28 <acolwell> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0050.html
15:18:49 <adrianba> ... bug 17071 also RESOLVED FIXED
15:19:11 <adrianba> ... Define how presentation duration is set & updated 
15:19:35 <adrianba> paulc: there are new bugs related to timestamps
15:19:43 <adrianba> ... Remove format specific presentation start timestamp sections
15:19:48 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18389
15:20:14 <adrianba> paulc: are you just looking for comments?
15:20:33 <adrianba> acolwell: there was a discussion about removing a mechanism for determining start time
15:20:43 <adrianba> ... it currently uses timestamp of initial segment
15:20:52 <adrianba> ... and as we implemented we ran into some problems
15:21:00 <adrianba> ... so we proposed always starting at zero
15:21:16 <Zakim> -markw
15:21:23 <adrianba> ... and use the timestamp offset mechanism if your media doesn't do this
15:21:39 <adrianba> ... i think mark and i agreed but then there was some side discussion
15:21:58 <adrianba> ... in the last spec update i added text to describe the existing behaviour so people could look at it
15:22:01 <Zakim> +??P18
15:22:17 <adrianba> ... but if we decide presentations should always start at zero then we can remove that
15:22:24 <adrianba> zakim, ??P18 is markw
15:22:24 <Zakim> +markw; got it
15:22:28 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:22:48 <adrianba> paulc: the bug has a very concrete proposal - maybe we give people one week to respond - is that enough time?
15:23:08 <adrianba> ... alternatively you could just make the change and if necessary back it out
15:23:30 <adrianba> ... someone had some questions and i think i answered but i didn't get an idea of whether the answers satisfied him
15:23:48 <adrianba> paulc: my recommendation is review as you suggested and then make the change as a single check-in
15:23:58 <adrianba> ... mark the bug when you do it and then we can review
15:24:02 <adrianba> adrianba: +1
15:24:17 <adrianba> paulc: next is Define and document timestamp heuristics
15:24:23 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18400
15:24:30 <adrianba> paulc: this one asks lots of questions
15:24:48 <adrianba> ... assigned to mark
15:24:56 <paulc> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18400#c1
15:25:25 <adrianba> markw: i asked for this to be assigned to me but haven't done it yet - will address by the next call
15:25:37 <adrianba> paulc: this will be on the agenda for the next meeting
15:25:56 <adrianba> TOPIC: Candidate Media Source Extension bugs for discussion 
15:26:03 <adrianba> http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej
15:26:36 <adrianba> paulc: not sure how to handle these
15:27:12 <adrianba> ... when we originally met, we said we'd wait on many of these for the API changes
15:27:28 <adrianba> acolwell: 17001 - not sure how to deal with this
15:27:47 <adrianba> ... i've added text but this was mainly due to Bob Lund pointing out that this was discussed
15:27:52 <adrianba> ... not sure how to proceed
15:28:15 <adrianba> paulc: suggest you go back to the bug with a pointer into the spec saying where the changes are
15:28:39 <adrianba> ... and then you compose a mail to Bob copying the list asking if this resolves the issue
15:28:58 <adrianba> ... we should do this for all bugs we believe resolved
15:29:08 <adrianba> ... give a two week window and then treat as closed
15:29:16 <adrianba> ... does that apply to any others?
15:29:41 <adrianba> acolwell: bug 17000 - i lowered the priority because i don't think we know how we move forward on this
15:30:11 <adrianba> ... i don't think we have any capabilities that need negotiation
15:30:37 <adrianba> ... so i don't know whether to close this bug until we need it or leave it open
15:30:43 <adrianba> paulc: adrianba?
15:31:08 <adrianba> adrianba: i need to get john simmons to look at this
15:31:37 <adrianba> paulc: adrian or john will provide microsoft's opinion on this
15:31:47 <adrianba> acolwell: i think kilroy was the one with thoughts on this
15:31:50 <adrianba> adrianba: ok
15:32:01 <adrianba> paulc: what about bug 17739
15:32:09 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17739
15:32:18 <adrianba> ... any reason why this can't just be implemented
15:32:24 <adrianba> acolwell: yes, i can do this
15:32:37 <adrianba> paulc: editors will action this
15:32:46 <adrianba> paulc: bug 17002
15:32:53 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17002
15:33:07 <adrianba> acolwell: we don't have source IDs any more because of going to the O-O API
15:33:15 <adrianba> ... so now we just have source buffers
15:33:22 <adrianba> q+
15:33:35 <adrianba> paulc: i suggest closing the bug and pointing to the new open bug
15:33:45 <adrianba> q?
15:34:09 <paulc> ack adri
15:34:45 <adrianba> adrianba: i think it makes more sense to retitle the bug since the problem is still the same
15:34:58 <adrianba> paulc: that's fine as long as it is clearly commented in the bug
15:35:05 <adrianba> acolwell: i'll go back and look at the history
15:35:16 <adrianba> paulc: bug 17006
15:35:52 <adrianba> ... <track> Setting track language & kind when the information is in a manifest 
15:36:09 <adrianba> acolwell: i need to rethink this - i'll take an action to look again given the new API 
15:36:34 <adrianba> paulc: bug 17072
15:36:36 <adrianba> ... Define behavior for a break in contiguous appending 
15:36:47 <adrianba> acolwell: i think we may have had discussions that make this no longer relevant
15:36:55 <adrianba> ... i will look and update
15:37:13 <adrianba> paulc: bug 17094
15:37:15 <adrianba> ... Define segment formats for MPEG2-TS 
15:37:26 <adrianba> ... could someone take a look and recommend how to deal with this
15:37:34 <adrianba> acolwell: this one may be controversial
15:37:50 <adrianba> paulc: perhaps someone could create a summary and we can discuss in the next meeting?
15:38:03 <adrianba> paulc: i think that's all of them
15:38:18 <adrianba> ... i will make sure i use the minutes to drive the next agenda
15:38:20 <adrianba> q+
15:38:27 <paulc> ack adri
15:38:35 <adrianba> TOPIC: Other Business
15:39:53 <adrianba> adrianba: just wanted to ask how close we think we are to feature complete
15:40:05 <adrianba> ... once we get there we could consider asking the WG for FPWD
15:40:44 <adrianba> paulc: when this was presented you gathered all the comments from the list and turned into bugs?
15:40:47 <adrianba> adrianba: yes
15:41:07 <adrianba> paulc: there are a couple of important bugs still to be worked on
15:41:29 <adrianba> ... maybe we should put a call out asking for items that are missing from the spec
15:41:58 <adrianba> acolwell: i think the append mechanism and the rate limiting are key things
15:42:05 <adrianba> paulc: are they included in bugs?
15:42:08 <adrianba> acolwell: yes
15:42:26 <adrianba> paulc: paraphrasing adrian's question as if we close the current bugs is that good enough to go to FPWD
15:42:42 <adrianba> ... then we can consider if there are some that don't even need to be resolved to get there
15:42:51 <adrianba> acolwell: i think we're close
15:42:59 <glenn> yes, go to FPWD
15:43:18 <adrianba> paulc: another question: i don't think there's a reason we couldn't publish this spec as FPWD without the EME spec - they are independent, correct?
15:43:20 <adrianba> acolwell: yes
15:43:24 <adrianba> adrianba: yes
15:44:04 <adrianba> paulc: i will send a note to the media list saying that we've done the major change to the API, we're moving along, and we're looking for any missing functionality
15:44:14 <adrianba> ... does that answer your AOB question?
15:44:17 <adrianba> adrianba: yes
15:44:26 <adrianba> TOPIC: Chair and Scribe for next meeting
15:44:41 <adrianba> paulc: next meeting will be aug 14
15:44:44 <adrianba> ... i will chair
15:44:50 <adrianba> ... any volunteers to scribe?
15:44:54 <adrianba> ... not hearing anyone
15:45:03 <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
15:45:13 <Zakim> -BobLund
15:45:17 <adrianba> paulc: all done for today, lots of work to be done though
15:45:19 <Zakim> -Clarke
15:45:21 <Zakim> -glenn
15:45:24 <adrianba> ... we're adjourned
15:45:25 <Zakim> -NiXu
15:45:27 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:45:28 <Zakim> -acolwell
15:45:29 <Zakim> -markw
15:45:31 <Zakim> HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended
15:45:31 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.352.870.aaaa, +1.206.218.aabb, Clarke, adrianba, paulc, NiXu, acolwell, glenn, markw, BobLund
15:45:37 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/31-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:45:41 <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public
15:48:55 <adrianba> trackbot, end telcon
15:48:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:48:55 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:49:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:49:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/31-html-media-minutes.html trackbot
15:49:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:49:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items