See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 26 July 2012
<kford> Hakkinen, Mark - Note Mark was going to update one more time from last meeting http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0004.html
<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0005.html
<kford> Faults http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0008.html
<kford> Kim, Greg)
<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0013.html
<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0001.html
<mhakkinen> I'm at Fordham, at the Lincoln Center campus.
<AllanJ> scribe: jallan
<jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0027.html
<AllanJ> this includes/incorporates comments from the last meeting
<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0027.html
<AllanJ> jr: still not clear.
<AllanJ> ... a. is confusing...viewport...does this have to be in a view port
<AllanJ> ... it is saying create a viewport, and scalable
<AllanJ> b. says it must be moveable
<AllanJ> kp: seems to mean what it says
<AllanJ> jf: once we say viewport, thats a lot to digest. suggests a pane of some kind.
<AllanJ> ... but the examples say window which is different
<AllanJ> .... viewport may need to be a different SC.
<AllanJ> kp: a. needs rewritten to say pane or window.
<AllanJ> jr: viewport is a difficult topic. should stand alone
<AllanJ> gl: user needs to be alble to put it in a viewport
<AllanJ> mh: viewport with transparent background, hidden border, etc.
<AllanJ> mh: alternated media track should be a viewport
<Greg> That is, I don't think the wording should imply that alternative text *must* be in a separate viewport.
<AllanJ> discussion of viewports and implementation of media viewports and postioning and scaling
<AllanJ> jr: media is a special case.
<KimPatch> (a) Scale the visual media alternative as a viewport (e.g. a window or pane).
<KimPatch> (b) Allow the visual media alternative viewport to occupy any
<KimPatch> rectangular region within the user agent's viewport.
<KimPatch> (c)
<KimPatch> (d)
<AllanJ> jr: scroll bars disappear, appears to be flat text. but you start adjusting text scale, and the viewport can no longer handle, and discover that you are in a viesport
<AllanJ> jr: does it have to be a window?
<AllanJ> jr: we must be testably vague in our term
<AllanJ> jr: make a list of requirements
<AllanJ> gl: viewport is one of the most confusing terms in the document
<AllanJ> ... user can adjust text, scale and position the region in which text alternatives are presented
<AllanJ> kp: viewport is a term that is used in the document.
<AllanJ> gl: do we mean only the content viewport
<AllanJ> mh: this is AAA.
<AllanJ> jr? we have some really good stuff in here that seems AA
<AllanJ> mh: are we now suggesting breaking into several SCs
<Greg> The user can resize the region in which alternatives for time-based media are visually rendered, reposition the region so that it does or does not overlap the time-based media, and adjust any text in conformance with 1.4.1.
<AllanJ> ... need a base level - scaling alternative media content at AA, and positioning is AAA
<AllanJ> mh: take this away, and bring back.
<AllanJ> jr: perhaps I should take this.
<Greg> Should it say "recognized" or in other ways address that this doesn't affect cases where the server burns in captions before streaming the video?
<AllanJ> jr: just to be clear...the UA knows what these things are
<AllanJ> mh: html5 is trying to define tracks and the visualization of them.
<Jan> ACTION: JR to Rework new 1.1.3 taking into account "The user can resize the region in which alternatives for time-based media are visually rendered, reposition the region so that it does or does not overlap the time-based media, and adjust any text in conformance with 1.4.1." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-746 - Rework new 1.1.3 taking into account "The user can resize the region in which alternatives for time-based media are visually rendered, reposition the region so that it does or does not overlap the time-based media, and adjust any text in conformance with 1.4.1." [on Jan Richards - due 2012-08-02].
<AllanJ> resolved: 5.x from Mark 5 july or 12 July should go in the document
<AllanJ> jr: not had time to do this. in the action it says help from Kim and Greg. would like to pass this to others
<AllanJ> gl: reviewing history.,
<AllanJ> jr: was not able to get anything together for ATAG on this. not sure of getting anything for uaag
<Greg> We discussed it on the call of 21 June 2012.
<AllanJ> js: important use case on mobile devices. moving tool bar buttions on browser from right to left side for onehanded users.
<AllanJ> jr: kp also raised a similar use case. important to have keys handy
<AllanJ> gl: there have been sevefral proposals.... someone needs to drive this
<Jan> found this: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html
<AllanJ> jaime will help with the toolbar
<AllanJ> ACTION: jeanne (mark and Jaime) to rework the 2.8 toolbar proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-747 - (mark and Jaime) to rework the 2.8 toolbar proposal [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-08-02].
<Greg> Jan Proposal 4.1.1 - Active mail thread starting at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0013.html
<AllanJ> related to action-742
<Greg> Last week we ended by creating action 742 on Jeanne to "update doc with newest 4.1.1 from today's meeting minutes."
<kford> take up item 6
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120725/results
<kford> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120725/?
<AllanJ> jr: the applications can keep track of states, and the author can override the back button functionality.
<AllanJ> ja: +1
<AllanJ> jr: likes gl #2 suggestions
<AllanJ> kf: +1
<AllanJ> kp: +1
<AllanJ> ja: +1
<AllanJ> gl: 1.8.8 retoreing point of regard.
<Greg> Agreement on "3.2.2 Back Button: The user can reverse recognized navigation between web addresses [or "URIs", or "web resources"?] (e.g. standard "back button" functionality). (Level AA)."
<Greg> Jan prefers "web address" over the alternatives.
<Greg> Related is 1.8.8 Viewport History [was 1.8.5]: For user agents that implement a viewport history mechanism (e.g. "back" button), the user can return to any state in the viewport history that is allowed by the content, restoring the prior point of regard , input focus and selection. (Level A)
<Greg> So 1.8.8 takes care of restoring focus, selection, and point of regard, but not restoring contents of edit fields, state of input controls, etc.
<Greg> Jan thinks we should not require restoring state of input controls when navigating back to a page.
<Greg> That's because the situation may be complicated, you might not want everything filled out, have to clear them.
<Greg> Jan ponders idea of prompt for confirmation when navigating away might cause your input to be lost.
<Greg> Jeanne notes people write scripting to do that.
<Greg> We could have restoring state of input controls separated out into another SC, if we want to address it, just a 1.8.8 separates out restoring focus etc. Thus current text of 3.2.2 could stand as is.
<Greg> Resolved: "3.2.2 Back Button: The user can reverse recognized navigation between web addresses (e.g. standard "back button" functionality). (Level AA)."
<AllanJ> ACTION: jeanne to update document to include 3.2.2 Back Button: The user can reverse recognized navigation between web addresses (e.g. standard "back button" functionality). (Level AA). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-748 - Update document to include 3.2.2 Back Button: The user can reverse recognized navigation between web addresses (e.g. standard "back button" functionality). (Level AA). [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-08-02].
<AllanJ> discussion of intent and examples
<Greg> I think the Examples should be expanded, as they're both voice input, and we should include an example of selecting a page from the History.
<KimPatch> Ellen had a hand injury which makes her easily distracted. She clicks on a link, and is interrupted by a colleague. It is important that she can easily get back to the link before to reorient herself.
<Greg> Etta finds she frequently clicks on the wrong link, and when she does so, she simply clicks the Back button in order to get back to where she had been.
<KimPatch> Ellen had a head injury which has affected her memory. She clicks on a link, and is interrupted by a colleague. When she goes back to her task she has forgotten what she was originally doing. It's important that she be able to retrace her steps to reorient herself.
<KimPatch> Ellen had a head injury that affects her short-term memory. She clicks on a link, and is interrupted by a colleague. When she goes back to her task she has forgotten what she was originally doing. It's important that she be able to retrace her steps to reorient herself.
<Greg> Bessie enters text with difficulty, so when she wants to navigate to a page she's already been too, it's much easier for her to click on its title in her History menu than it would be to enter its URI or navigate to it through a long series of links.
<Greg> For the Intent: In many cases it will be useful for the user to have input controls restored to their previous state when the user returns to the page. However, this may not be possible in all cases, either because of scripting, server-side interactions, privacy concerns, or to avoid duplicating financial transactions and the like.
<Greg> Etta has low vision and frequently clicks on the wrong link, and when she does so, she simply clicks the Back button in order to get back to where she had been.
<Greg> So, here are the new examples to be added:
<Greg> Ellen had a head injury that affects her short-term memory. She clicks on a link, and is interrupted by a colleague. When she goes back to her task she has forgotten what she was originally doing. It's important that she be able to retrace her steps to reorient herself.
<Greg> Etta has low vision and frequently clicks on the wrong link, and when she does so, she simply clicks the Back button in order to get back to where she had been.
<Greg> Bessie enters text with difficulty, so when she wants to navigate to a page she's already been too, it's much easier for her to click on its title in her History menu than it would be to enter its URL or navigate through it through a long series of links.
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to update document with examples and intent above in the minutes of 26 July. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-749 - Update document with examples and intent above in the minutes of 26 July. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-08-02].
<Greg> Agreement to the following paragraph to the Intent:
<Greg> In many cases it will be useful for the user to have input controls restored to their previous state when the user returns to the page. However, this may not be possible in all cases, either because of scripting, server-side interactions, privacy concerns, or to avoid duplicating financial transactions and the like.
<kford> List is at:
<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0001.html
<jeanne> Jan doing 1.2.2 action-725. He is reworking the intent.
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