14:58:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:58:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-forms-irc
14:58:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:58:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:58:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:58:57 <trackbot> Date: 25 July 2012
15:00:05 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:00:25 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:00:42 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P7
15:00:55 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
15:00:55 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
15:02:50 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
15:02:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:03:26 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:04:04 <Zakim> +ebruchez.a
15:04:32 <Steven> zakim, ebruchez is Nick
15:04:46 <nvdbleek> zakim, who is here
15:04:51 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2012JulSep/0028.html
15:04:57 <Zakim> +Nick; got it
15:05:03 <Zakim> nvdbleek, you need to end that query with '?'
15:07:06 <Zakim> + +1.443.837.aaaa
15:07:47 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is Kurt
15:07:47 <Zakim> +Kurt; got it
15:09:02 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
15:09:37 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Jul/0010.html
15:10:07 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
15:11:04 <nvdbleek> they have a Use Cases and Requirements
15:11:04 <nvdbleek> page at http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
15:12:31 <nvdbleek> Schwerdtfeger, Richard
15:12:38 <nvdbleek> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=54953&public=1
15:13:03 <Steven> Topic: Announcements
15:13:27 <Steven> Steven: UI events are something we have been asking for a long time, and we created a first draft some time ago. I will dig it out.
15:14:43 <Steven> Topic: Balisage
15:14:54 <Steven> Kurt: Anyone going to be there?
15:15:04 <Steven> Steven: Yes, I'm talking
15:15:12 <Steven> Kurt: See you there.
15:16:53 <Steven> Topic: Load and submit
15:17:04 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2012Jul/0000.html
15:17:27 <Steven> Nick: target="new"
15:17:40 <Steven> Erik: Some subtle issus with popup blockers
15:17:47 <Steven> e/sus/sues/
15:18:33 <Steven> ... browsers try to identify pops that are a response to a click
15:18:48 <Steven> ... s/pops/popups/
15:19:27 <Steven> s/... //
15:20:09 <Steven> Erik: It might not be reliable on some implementations
15:20:19 <Steven> Steven: Is that reason to not include it in the spec?
15:20:32 <Steven> Erik: Good question
15:20:57 <Steven> ... I think @target is a perfectly good use case. Clearly missing from XForms.
15:21:25 <Steven> ... it would be ideal to match it to @target from HTML
15:22:31 <Steven> Erik: It seems to be deprecated in HTML
15:23:09 <Steven> http://www.w3schools.com/html5/att_form_target.asp
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15:23:16 <Steven> Steven: No longer in HTML5
15:23:25 <nvdbleek> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#attr-base-target
15:24:41 <Steven> Kurt: THat strengthens the argument that we should have it, on <submission>
15:24:48 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
15:26:08 <Steven> ACTION: Nick to add @target to submission
15:26:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1909 - Add @target to submission [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2012-08-01].
15:26:44 <Steven> Topic: Repeat index changehttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Jul/0003.html
15:26:48 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Jul/0003.html
15:27:30 <nvdbleek> Orbeon has an extension event for this as erik pointed out http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xforms-events#TOC-xxforms-index-changed
15:28:04 <Steven> Erik: We have it; rarely useful, but occasionally it is
15:28:18 <Steven> ... need to work out when it is sent
15:29:12 <ebruchez> http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xforms-events#TOC-xxforms-index-changed
15:29:28 <Steven> Steven: So we have two identified implementations; sounds like it is worth adopting
15:30:14 <Steven> Nick: You dispatch it only when the value of the index changes, but not when the content under the index changes
15:30:40 <Steven> Erik: Yes; we have other events as well for the other cases
15:32:24 <Steven> ... it's just looking at the index value
15:33:02 <Steven> ... we have an event that says whether the nodeset of a repeat has changed
15:33:35 <Steven> Steven: Are those events just as needed?
15:33:44 <Steven> Erik: We did have a use case.
15:35:06 <Steven> ... It's a narrow use case, but we did need it.
15:36:14 <Steven> Nick: If you really need to track a repeat we need more events
15:36:26 <Steven> ... I think even value-changed is unreliable
15:36:41 <Steven> Steven: How so?
15:36:50 <Steven> Nick: Not always sent.
15:37:27 <Steven> Erik: And it may be sent if the values do not change from the user's perspective.
15:38:08 <Steven> Steven: So it is a case of over-specification? We should specify it by intent, not algorithmically.
15:38:59 <Steven> Erik: We never reached closure on it
15:39:20 <Steven> Nick: It was about relevance and not relevance 
15:39:39 <Steven> ... some people wanted to combine all the events into one event
15:40:45 <Steven> Erik: We agreed that controls should be in charge
15:40:55 <Steven> ... but not about the little details
15:41:24 <Steven> Steven: So should we reopen that?
15:41:49 <Steven> Erik: We should, but it is not necessary for the repeat events
15:42:21 <Steven> Topic: Errata document should link to wiki
15:42:23 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2012Jun/0002.html
15:43:20 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to link errata document to wiki errata page
15:43:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1910 - Link errata document to wiki errata page [on Steven Pemberton - due 2012-08-01].
15:43:48 <Steven> Topic: function, variable and reserved namespaces
15:43:50 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Jun/0030.html
15:44:24 <Steven> Steven: Did you already do this Nick?
15:44:38 <Steven> Nick: Not sure. I need to check.
15:45:15 <Steven> Steven: I'll keep it on the agenda
15:45:20 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:45:35 <Zakim> -Steven
15:45:36 <Zakim> -Kurt
15:45:37 <Zakim> -ebruchez.a
15:45:38 <Zakim> -Nick
15:45:38 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
15:45:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, Nick, +1.443.837.aaaa, Kurt
15:45:40 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:45:47 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:46:18 <Steven> Present+ Erik
15:46:49 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to dig out old intent-based events draft
15:46:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1911 - Dig out old intent-based events draft [on Steven Pemberton - due 2012-08-01].
15:47:18 <Steven> s;e/sus/sues/;;
15:47:28 <Steven> s;s/pops/popups/;;
15:47:39 <Steven> s/pops/popups/
15:47:45 <Steven> s/issus/issues/
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15:48:02 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:48:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:48:58 <Steven> s/pops/popups/
15:49:05 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:49:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:49:56 <Steven> s/pops/popups/
15:50:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:50:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
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