IRC log of dap on 2012-07-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:58:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-irc
13:58:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:58:50 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:58:50 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:51 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:58:51 [trackbot]
Date: 25 July 2012
13:58:56 [darobin]
Chair: Robin
13:59:04 [darobin]
Regrets: Frederick, Niklas
13:59:17 [gmandyam]
gmandyam has joined #dap
13:59:35 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:59:39 [darobin]
Zakim, who is here?
13:59:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
13:59:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, Marcos1, dcheng3, dsr, fjh, richt, slightlyoff, lgombos, Josh_Soref, trackbot, mounir, hiroto_away, dom
13:59:42 [Zakim]
+dcheng3
14:00:01 [Zakim]
-dcheng3
14:00:02 [Zakim]
+??P14
14:00:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.780.aaaa
14:00:39 [Zakim]
+dcheng3
14:00:39 [Jungkee]
Jungkee has joined #dap
14:00:43 [Josh_Soref]
Scribe: Josh_Soref
14:00:49 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
14:00:49 [Jungkee]
Present+ Jungkee_Song
14:00:54 [dcheng3]
Present+ Diana_Cheng
14:01:32 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:01:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:02:22 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P14 is me
14:02:22 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:02:27 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, where is +1858?
14:02:27 [Zakim]
North American dialing code 1.858 is California
14:02:38 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:02:49 [gmandyam]
That is me - Giri Mandyam, Qualcomm Innovation Center
14:03:21 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, gmandyam is Giri_Mandyam
14:03:21 [Zakim]
+Giri_Mandyam; got it
14:03:24 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, nick gmandyam is Giri_Mandyam
14:03:24 [Zakim]
ok, Josh_Soref, I now associate gmandyam with Giri_Mandyam
14:03:47 [Zakim]
+??P18
14:03:58 [Jungkee]
Zakim, mute me
14:03:58 [Zakim]
Jungkee should now be muted
14:04:08 [richt_]
richt_ has joined #dap
14:04:14 [Zakim]
+Dsr
14:04:29 [darobin]
Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:04:35 [darobin]
Zakim, who's here?
14:04:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, Giri_Mandyam, dcheng3, Josh_Soref, Jungkee (muted), ??P18, Dsr
14:04:35 [Milan_Patel]
Milan_Patel has joined #dap
14:04:37 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, p18 is Marcos1
14:04:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see richt_, Jungkee, gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, Marcos1, dcheng3, dsr, fjh, richt, slightlyoff, lgombos, Josh_Soref, trackbot, mounir, hiroto_away, dom
14:04:37 [Zakim]
sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not recognize a party named 'p18'
14:04:43 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, ??p18 is Marcos
14:04:43 [Zakim]
+Marcos; got it
14:04:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.266.aabb
14:04:48 [Jungkee]
P18 might be me?
14:04:53 [dsr]
Present+ Dave_Raggett
14:04:53 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, nick Marcos1 is Marcos
14:04:53 [Zakim]
ok, Josh_Soref, I now associate Marcos1 with Marcos
14:05:00 [fjh1]
fjh1 has joined #dap
14:05:04 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute Marcos1
14:05:04 [Zakim]
sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Marcos1
14:05:07 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute Marcos
14:05:07 [Zakim]
Marcos should now be muted
14:05:14 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, unmute Marcos
14:05:14 [Zakim]
Marcos should no longer be muted
14:05:17 [Jungkee]
Zakim, P18 is me?
14:05:17 [Zakim]
sorry, Jungkee, I do not understand your question
14:05:26 [Jungkee]
;)
14:05:32 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:05:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:05:33 [fjh1]
fjh1 has left #dap
14:05:37 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, who is on the call?
14:05:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, Giri_Mandyam, dcheng3, Josh_Soref, Jungkee (muted), Marcos, Dsr, +1.781.266.aabb
14:05:53 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, where is +1781?
14:06:07 [Zakim]
North American dialing code 1.781 is Massachusetts
14:06:22 [darobin]
Zakim, aabb is Cathy
14:06:22 [Zakim]
+Cathy; got it
14:06:43 [Josh_Soref]
s/P18 might be me?//
14:06:45 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Agenda
14:06:52 [Zakim]
+lgombos
14:06:53 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: anything people want to add to the agenda?
14:06:56 [Josh_Soref]
[ None ]
14:06:59 [Jungkee]
I have one
14:06:59 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aacc
14:07:00 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Minutes Approval
14:07:05 [richt_]
Zakim, aacc is me
14:07:05 [Zakim]
+richt_; got it
14:07:10 [Jungkee]
Zakim, unmute me
14:07:10 [Zakim]
Jungkee should no longer be muted
14:07:23 [Josh_Soref]
Jungkee: i updated the ED of Pick Media
14:07:39 [Josh_Soref]
... the major change in the update is the Media Dictionary for MetaData
14:08:05 [Josh_Soref]
... i xxx some url
14:08:06 [Clarke]
Clarke has joined #dap
14:08:13 [Josh_Soref]
... we can talk about the next step including fragments
14:08:20 [Josh_Soref]
... and talk to service providers, etc.
14:08:31 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: do you want to discuss this on the call?
14:08:37 [Josh_Soref]
... or relegate it to the list?
14:08:50 [Josh_Soref]
Jungkee: we'll need some time to review the updated documents
14:09:01 [Josh_Soref]
... maybe we can schedule some time for next week's call?
14:09:16 [Marcos1]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:09:24 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute Jungkee
14:09:24 [Zakim]
Jungkee should now be muted
14:09:24 [darobin]
proposed RESOLUTION: discuss updated Pick Media next week
14:09:25 [Zakim]
+??P22
14:09:29 [Zakim]
Marcos1, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Josh_Soref (4%), Jungkee (16%)
14:09:33 [Zakim]
+ +25686aadd
14:09:34 [Clarke]
??P22 is me
14:09:34 [Jungkee]
Zakim, unmute me
14:09:34 [Zakim]
Jungkee should no longer be muted
14:09:45 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: ok, we can talk about Pick Media next week
14:09:47 [Clarke]
zakim, ??P22 is me
14:09:47 [Zakim]
+Clarke; got it
14:09:48 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute me
14:09:48 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref should now be muted
14:09:51 [Jungkee]
thanks
14:10:01 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, where is +256?
14:10:01 [Zakim]
country code 256 is Uganda
14:10:24 [Josh_Soref]
RESOLUTION: discuss updated Pick Media next week
14:10:35 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, who is making noise?
14:10:44 [Josh_Soref]
s/Topic: Minutes Approval//
14:10:46 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (74%)
14:10:49 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Minutes Approval
14:10:55 [Milan_Patel]
Present+ Milan_Patel
14:10:56 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute aadd
14:10:56 [Zakim]
+25686aadd should now be muted
14:10:57 [darobin]
proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from Burlington F2F are approved.
14:11:08 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, who is on the call?
14:11:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, Giri_Mandyam, dcheng3, Josh_Soref (muted), Jungkee, Marcos, Dsr, Cathy, lgombos, richt_, Clarke, +25686aadd (muted)
14:11:10 [darobin]
Zakim, who's making noise?
14:11:16 [Jungkee]
s/including fragments /including refinement of metadata dictionary
14:11:19 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute Clarke
14:11:19 [Zakim]
Clarke should now be muted
14:11:21 [Zakim]
darobin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jungkee (3%)
14:11:27 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute Jungkee
14:11:27 [Zakim]
Jungkee should now be muted
14:11:53 [Josh_Soref]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from Burlington F2F are approved.
14:12:12 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: HTML MC Feedback
14:12:26 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, aadd is probably Milan_Patel
14:12:26 [Zakim]
+Milan_Patel?; got it
14:12:36 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: i'm not sure we need to go over all the feedback
14:12:40 [Josh_Soref]
... a lot of it is editorial
14:12:44 [Josh_Soref]
... or confusion
14:12:54 [Milan_Patel]
Milan is here
14:12:58 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #dap
14:13:02 [Josh_Soref]
... Anssi is on vacation
14:13:11 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, Milan_Patel? is Milan_Patel
14:13:11 [Zakim]
+Milan_Patel; got it
14:13:34 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: does anyone want to enter the LC bits into the LC tracker?
14:13:40 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: is there a new one?
14:13:59 [Josh_Soref]
s/tracker?/ tracker [learning a new tool]?/
14:14:07 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: no, but it may be new to some people
14:14:15 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to enter the HTML MC LC comments into the tracking tool
14:14:15 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: i'm going on vacation shortly
14:14:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-562 - Enter the HTML MC LC comments into the tracking tool [on Robin Berjon - due 2012-08-01].
14:14:34 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: anything else on HTML Media Capture?
14:14:44 [Josh_Soref]
... i'm sure Anssi will take an editing pass when he comes back
14:14:47 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Light Sensor
14:14:55 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: there's been discussion, a spec, some tests
14:15:01 [Josh_Soref]
... i'm using the same link for the spec and tests
14:15:06 [Josh_Soref]
... not what i intended to do
14:15:14 [darobin]
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/tip/light/Overview.html
14:15:34 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: it's a pretty cool, pretty simple draft
14:15:39 [Josh_Soref]
... do we want a CfC to publish it?
14:15:41 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: i'd support that
14:15:58 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to start a CfC for Light
14:16:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-563 - Start a CfC for Light [on Robin Berjon - due 2012-08-01].
14:16:10 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, unmute me
14:16:10 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref should no longer be muted
14:17:15 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref: i'm rather skeptical about all of this
14:17:31 [Josh_Soref]
... i expect browser UAs to be able to do things more intelligently if they evolve on their own
14:17:42 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: from working w/ darobin on a course
14:17:57 [Josh_Soref]
... there's a trend in mobile developers creating interfaces designed for outdoors
14:18:13 [Josh_Soref]
... i agree with you, Josh_Soref, that intelligently adapting on the UA side would be great
14:18:27 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref: but that's a Media Query
14:18:58 [Josh_Soref]
... instead of proposing low level api first
14:19:02 [Josh_Soref]
... propose a Media Query
14:22:52 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: i hear your concerns, Josh_Soref
14:23:05 [Josh_Soref]
... but i think they'd be better addressed by having a venue in which to sort these things out
14:23:09 [Josh_Soref]
... than by not having it
14:23:24 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: note that they're unprefixed in Aurora/Firefox Mobile
14:23:31 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: you should voice your concern in the CfC
14:23:39 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: i agree, there's something that doesn't feel quite right
14:23:50 [Josh_Soref]
... hopefully we can get a prefixed version with the mozilla guys
14:24:39 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Temperature and Humidity
14:25:43 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref: i don't like the idea of these things being native exposed apis
14:25:46 [Josh_Soref]
... as opposed to being intents
14:26:06 [Josh_Soref]
... because when i'm using a car / phone in a car / tablet in a car
14:26:20 [Josh_Soref]
... the onboard sensor for the UA that's hosting the system
14:26:26 [Josh_Soref]
... may be very far from the physical user
14:26:45 [Josh_Soref]
... and thus give the wrong answer
14:26:51 [Josh_Soref]
... whereas an Intent could do the right thing
14:27:01 [gmandyam]
+q
14:27:05 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: nothing prevents us from morphing from an API to an Intent
14:27:08 [Josh_Soref]
... pick/subscribe
14:27:12 [Josh_Soref]
... do we have a subscribe verb?
14:27:14 [darobin]
ack gmandyam
14:27:14 [Josh_Soref]
... yes we do
14:27:24 [Josh_Soref]
gmandyam: if we take this on as an Intent form
14:27:34 [Josh_Soref]
... does that tie us to the intent discovery process in the UA?
14:27:53 [Josh_Soref]
... i have a problem with intents from a mobile perspective
14:28:33 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: the question is whether the WG wants to take on the work?
14:28:40 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: can we just gather UCs?
14:28:52 [Josh_Soref]
... it's an unofficial draft
14:29:26 [darobin]
Josh_Soref: what will happen for discovery is that a mobile device will know about its one on-board sensor
14:30:02 [darobin]
gmandyam: yes, we may not want to expose details to users
14:30:08 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, drop me
14:30:08 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref is being disconnected
14:30:10 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
14:30:12 [darobin]
Josh_Soref: it's only about specs, we don't specify UI
14:30:25 [darobin]
Marcos tries to explain the plan
14:30:34 [darobin]
[scribe lost]
14:31:13 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
14:31:21 [darobin]
Zakim, drop Josh_Soref
14:31:21 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref is being disconnected
14:31:23 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
14:31:45 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
14:31:57 [Zakim]
-Jungkee
14:32:24 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: i don't think we want to publish
14:32:26 [Josh_Soref]
Marcos1: i agree
14:32:30 [Josh_Soref]
... let's chat a bit more
14:32:38 [Josh_Soref]
... let's wait on a reference implementation
14:32:42 [Josh_Soref]
... and explore the UCs
14:32:46 [Josh_Soref]
darobin: that sounds good to me
14:32:56 [Josh_Soref]
... thanks a lot for putting the spec together
14:33:09 [Josh_Soref]
... if you get back from vacation, you can take this up
14:33:15 [Zakim]
+??P7
14:33:25 [darobin]
Zakim, mute ??P7
14:33:25 [Zakim]
??P7 should now be muted
14:33:30 [Jungkee]
Zakim, P7 is me
14:33:31 [Zakim]
sorry, Jungkee, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
14:33:45 [Jungkee]
Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:33:45 [Zakim]
+Jungkee; got it
14:34:08 [Jungkee]
Zakim, mute me
14:34:16 [Zakim]
Jungkee was already muted, Jungkee
14:36:08 [lgombos]
22done
14:36:59 [gmandyam]
+q
14:37:06 [darobin]
ack gmandyam
14:38:40 [Josh_Soref]
s/22done//
14:39:13 [Josh_Soref]
[ Discussion of Node.js / NodeBots ]
14:39:26 [Josh_Soref]
[ Adjourned ]
14:39:34 [Zakim]
-Marcos
14:39:35 [Zakim]
-lgombos
14:39:35 [Zakim]
-Giri_Mandyam
14:39:36 [Zakim]
-richt_
14:39:36 [Zakim]
-Milan_Patel
14:39:38 [Zakim]
-Clarke
14:39:39 [Zakim]
-Jungkee
14:39:40 [Zakim]
-darobin
14:39:40 [Zakim]
-dcheng3
14:39:44 [Zakim]
-Dsr
14:39:48 [Josh_Soref]
trackbot, end meeting
14:39:48 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:39:48 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been dcheng3, +1.858.780.aaaa, Josh_Soref, darobin, Giri_Mandyam, Jungkee, Dsr, Marcos, +1.781.266.aabb, Cathy, lgombos, +47.23.69.aacc, richt_,
14:39:52 [Zakim]
... +25686aadd, Clarke, Milan_Patel
14:39:56 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:39:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-minutes.html trackbot
14:39:56 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
14:39:57 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:39:57 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-actions.rdf :
14:39:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Robin to enter the HTML MC LC comments into the tracking tool [1]
14:39:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-irc#T14-14-15
14:39:57 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Robin to start a CfC for Light [2]
14:39:57 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-irc#T14-15-58
14:40:06 [gmandyam]
Zakim, drop me
14:40:06 [Zakim]
sorry, gmandyam, I do not see a party named 'gmandyam'