15:55:33 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg 15:55:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-irc 15:55:35 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:55:36 zakim, ??P13 is me 15:55:36 +yang; got it 15:55:37 Zakim, this will be html_wg 15:55:38 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference 15:55:38 Date: 12 July 2012 15:55:38 ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started 15:56:18 adrianba has joined #html-wg 15:58:00 rubys has joined #html-wg 15:59:07 eliot has joined #html-wg 15:59:14 janina has joined #html-wg 15:59:43 paulc has joined #html-wg 15:59:43 +Sam 15:59:49 laura has joined #html-wg 16:00:03 mjs has joined #html-wg 16:00:06 +??P27 16:00:14 mjs: i already started trackbot 16:00:15 zakim, ??P27 is Janina 16:00:15 +Janina; got it 16:00:25 +[Microsoft] 16:00:28 Zakim, Microsoft has me 16:00:28 +eliot; got it 16:00:43 MFoladare has joined #html-wg 16:00:45 Chair: mjs 16:00:50 ScribeNick: glenn 16:00:53 +[Microsoft.a] 16:00:53 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0004.html 16:01:11 krisk has joined #html-wg 16:01:11 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc 16:01:11 +paulc; got it 16:01:19 zakim, list attendees 16:01:19 As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc 16:01:22 Topic: ACTION items due by Thursday, July 12 16:01:37 +Radhika_Roy 16:01:44 +[GVoice] 16:01:53 zakim, [Microsoft] has eliot 16:01:53 +eliot; got it 16:01:56 ddorwin has joined #html-wg 16:01:58 ACTION-217? 16:01:58 ACTION-217 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN 16:01:58 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217 16:02:13 zakim, [GVoice] is me 16:02:13 +ddorwin; got it 16:02:28 +Laura_Carlson 16:02:30 +[Microsoft.aa] 16:02:49 +mjs 16:02:53 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is krisk 16:02:53 +krisk; got it 16:02:55 +[Microsoft.aa] 16:03:06 cjones has joined #html-wg 16:03:06 +hober 16:03:17 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba 16:03:17 +adrianba; got it 16:04:12 zakim, list attendees 16:04:12 As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba 16:04:21 mjs: one item ACTION-217 16:04:49 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba, frankolivier 16:04:49 adrianba was already listed in [Microsoft.aa], adrianba 16:04:50 +frankolivier; got it 16:04:52 ... Ted and Frank are working this, SF has commented proposing his own 16:05:12 Steve's proposal is at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions 16:05:19 This is a revision to Ted's proposal 16:05:29 hober: some outstanding feedback from SF and Rich which might result in some changes 16:05:35 ... but thinks it is stable 16:05:37 + +1.818.370.aaaa 16:05:46 paulc: SF submitted comments/changes to Ted's proposal 16:06:05 ... operative question is that others need to review SF's counter proposal 16:06:31 mjs: may need to go to survey, but two proposals are much closer now 16:06:51 Status of ISSUE-201: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201 16:07:13 close ACTION-217 16:07:13 ACTION-217 Create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) closed 16:07:33 paulc: should there be new action on Ted to review? 16:07:40 mjs: thinks ML thread is sufficient 16:07:47 janina: heard from rich will post soon 16:07:56 Active discussion at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0064.html 16:08:11 janina: nobody is disagreeing, sounds more like clarification discussion 16:08:41 mjs: still should be able to reach consensus 16:08:58 ... continue discussion on ML 16:09:02 Topic: New Issues This Week 16:09:03 none 16:09:12 mjs: one tracker request 16:09:17 ... to be LC2 comment 16:09:33 Topic: Items closed Last Week 16:09:38 ISSUE-189? 16:09:38 ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open 16:09:38 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189 16:09:57 ISSUE-200? 16:09:57 ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open 16:09:57 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200 16:10:08 mjs: both calls have closed 16:10:16 Topic: Issues Closing This Week 16:10:18 none 16:10:24 Topic: Items Closing Next Week 16:10:37 ISSUE-199? 16:10:37 ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open 16:10:37 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199 16:11:13 mjs: CfC active, revisions to CPs, consensus proposal present 16:11:22 Topic: New Calls This Week 16:11:27 ISSUE-199? 16:11:27 ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open 16:11:27 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199 16:11:42 Topic: New Surveys This Week 16:11:44 ISSUE-200? 16:11:44 ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open 16:11:44 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200 16:11:52 Zakim, call MIke 16:11:52 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made 16:11:54 +MIke 16:12:02 ISSUE-189? 16:12:02 ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open 16:12:02 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189 16:12:21 mjs: Julian raised issue that IETF desires further discussion, will check with Philippe 16:12:26 q+ 16:12:34 ... may put survey on hold, but should still provide input 16:12:42 paulc: plh says go ahead with survey 16:12:42 ack paulc 16:13:00 paulc: will respond on ML on this thread 16:13:11 Topic: Decisions This Week 16:13:12 none 16:13:21 Topic: Task Force Reports 16:13:27 [1] Testing Task Force 16:13:43 kris: good morning, didn't meet last week will meet next week 16:13:51 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Upcoming_meetings 16:13:58 ... schedule has been extended and posted on wiki 16:14:16 ... had discussed spec change about pattern repeat, opened bug sent to list 16:14:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0065.html 16:14:31 ... will have to see what consensus develops 16:14:35 q+ 16:14:35 ... q/c? 16:14:46 ack yang 16:15:00 yang: what day is testing call? 16:15:08 Please see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing 16:15:11 kris: see above link 16:15:41 yang: ok 16:15:46 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Conference_Calls 16:15:53 ack yang 16:16:10 q+ 16:16:11 [2] Accessibility Task Force 16:16:28 janina: not a lot to report 16:16:44 ... people have continued working on their tasks 16:16:54 ... lack of quorum in last call 16:16:59 ... progress, but slower than usual 16:17:28 ... chairs are aware of status changes on ISSUE-194, etc 16:17:46 ... and on ISSUE-201, nothing to add on what's been said 16:18:03 ... strongly opposed to moving ISSUE-203 forward before resolving ISSUE-30 16:18:17 + +1.415.832.aabb 16:18:22 [that is the TF is opposed] 16:18:41 mjs: yang is on queue 16:19:12 yang: noticed on ML that may decide on 3 options on ISSUE-194 16:19:30 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194 16:19:36 ... will we discuss on this call? 16:19:45 janina: can do if folks like 16:19:55 paulc: chairs are preparing a survey on three options 16:20:00 yang: a new survey? 16:20:10 paulc: [explains process] 16:20:31 yang: another question 16:20:45 ... for ??? detection ??? 16:20:50 KevinStreeter has joined #html-wg 16:21:26 [scribe: did not follow question] 16:21:43 paulc: question is about hit testing and whether it is related to accessibility 16:21:49 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201 16:21:58 ... see ISSUE-201 16:22:14 paulc: [explains process about task forces] 16:22:41 ... answer is yes, it is an accessibility related issue 16:22:52 ... as are many other issues on status page posted above 16:22:57 ack yang 16:23:06 Topic: Other Business 16:23:14 ISSUE-189? 16:23:14 ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open 16:23:14 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189 16:23:42 mjs: CP was revised as requested by chairs, now have gone to survey 16:23:44 - +1.818.370.aaaa 16:23:52 ... some questions about IETF coordination, but will proceed 16:23:55 ISSUE-201? 16:23:55 ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open 16:23:55 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201 16:24:19 mjs: two proposals now with slightly different variants 16:24:29 ... from hober and SF 16:24:32 ... q/c? 16:24:59 ISSUE-204? 16:24:59 ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open 16:24:59 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204 16:25:34 mjs: seems to have material differences in CPs 16:26:12 hober: JF and I went back and forth on this 16:26:25 ... have gotten closer, hope to find compromise wording 16:26:35 ... a little more work to get agreement with JF 16:26:37 q+ 16:26:58 janina: would be happiest if we can reach consensus on language 16:27:16 ... not sure how to move in that direction, would be good if hober can move this 16:27:39 ... great concern is there are large # of disabled users not using screen readers 16:27:50 ... problems with tab approach 16:28:00 ... probably not meeting all use cases 16:28:17 "Every good-faith effort has been made here, and if at this time you and Jonas are still unprepared to endorse the V4 CP, then I will ask the Accessibility Task Force for their endorsement of the V4 CP and ask that the Chairs proceed with a WBS survey on Issue 204." - John Foliot, June 29. 16:28:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html 16:28:24 mjs: yang on queue 16:28:47 ack yang 16:28:59 yang: why does ARIA need to see hidden element? 16:29:25 worried about breaking service logic 16:29:28 why let ARIA see the hidden, it will ruin the JS dynamic service logic 16:29:39 s/worried/... worried/ 16:30:19 hober: thinks what yang is asking is whether elements that are hidden, with visibility toggled from script 16:30:30 ... shouldn't propose a problem for ARIA attributes 16:30:53 ... should be OK 16:31:05 s/propose/pose/ 16:31:23 yang: if disabled users use ARIA, then they can see hidden elements? 16:31:58 ... does ARIA differentiate between hidden and not hidden? 16:32:44 can user see the difference by aria for hidden and not-hidden? 16:32:47 mjs: suggests taking this discussion offline 16:32:58 ... or discuss on ML 16:32:58 Yang could also attend the A11Y TF meeting 16:33:01 yang: ok 16:33:18 Using ARIA in HTML 16:33:18 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0165.html 16:33:33 any A11Y TF conference call information? 16:33:52 mjs: any q/c about this document (Using AREA in HTML)? 16:34:20 glenn: what is intended purpose of this doc? for info only? 16:34:29 s/AREA/ARIA/ 16:35:02 paulc: intent is to fill in gaps, more readable 16:35:07 ... less jargon 16:35:21 icaaq has joined #html-wg 16:35:46 From 0165.html: "My intention is to provide a non normative resource that fills in the gaps in the current HTML5 specification and a document that is more readable (i.e. less jargonist)" 16:35:51 glenn: thanks, yes 16:36:22 paulc: points out that it does deviate from HTML5 16:36:54 glenn: do we need further action by WG? 16:38:10 trackbot has joined #html-wg 16:38:29 paulc: at present, author is requesting feedback 16:38:39 ... no specific actions for WG at this time 16:38:42 icaaq has joined #html-wg 16:39:35 paulc: there is a bugzilla component for this... 16:39:46 Bugzilla component and link: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG&component=Using%20ARIA%20in%20HTML 16:40:34 glenn: asks janina if A11Y TF has any position on this document 16:40:43 janina: not at this time, has not discussed 16:41:00 ... there is a group in TF working on mapping 16:41:09 ... so unclear 16:41:15 ... TF needs to discuss 16:41:36 Topic: AOB? 16:41:50 q+ 16:42:16 paulc: wants to report that group of members dealing with work on media proposal 16:42:21 ... continue to meet on weekly basis 16:42:35 ... significant advances on both EME and MSE proposals 16:42:36 EME minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0034.html 16:42:48 ... substantial changes to both interfaces to be more O-O 16:43:18 ... any one interested in that work should contact paulc 16:43:27 ... also see public-html-media archive 16:44:01 Topic: Scribe for Next Meeting 16:44:04 ack paulc 16:44:13 mjs: any volunteers 16:44:22 Paul will be chairing 16:44:32 Ted volunteers. Paul C will chair. 16:44:39 -mjs 16:44:40 - +1.415.832.aabb 16:44:42 -[Microsoft] 16:44:42 -krisk 16:44:44 -MIke 16:44:44 -Janina 16:44:44 janina has left #html-wg 16:44:46 -hober 16:44:46 Topic: Adjournment 16:44:50 mjs: adjourned 16:44:51 -yang 16:44:55 ... see you next wek 16:44:56 -Sam 16:44:58 -[Microsoft.aa] 16:45:01 -Laura_Carlson 16:45:07 zakim, list attendees 16:45:07 As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier, 16:45:11 ... +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke, +1.415.832.aabb 16:45:18 s/wek/week/ 16:45:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:45:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html glenn 16:45:47 -[Microsoft.a] 16:46:12 zakim, who's on phone? 16:46:12 I don't understand your question, glenn. 16:46:19 zakim, who's on the phone? 16:46:19 On the phone I see glenn, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin 16:46:37 -glenn 16:48:24 laura has joined #html-wg 16:49:49 trackbot, end meeting 16:49:49 Zakim, list attendees 16:49:49 As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier, 16:49:52 ... +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke, +1.415.832.aabb 16:49:57 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:49:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html trackbot 16:49:58 RRSAgent, bye 16:49:58 I see no action items