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15:55:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-irc
15:55:35 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:55:36 zakim, ??P13 is me
15:55:36 +yang; got it
15:55:37 Zakim, this will be html_wg
15:55:38 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:55:38 Date: 12 July 2012
15:55:38 ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
15:56:18 adrianba has joined #html-wg
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15:59:07 eliot has joined #html-wg
15:59:14 janina has joined #html-wg
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15:59:43 +Sam
15:59:49 laura has joined #html-wg
16:00:03 mjs has joined #html-wg
16:00:06 +??P27
16:00:14 mjs: i already started trackbot
16:00:15 zakim, ??P27 is Janina
16:00:15 +Janina; got it
16:00:25 +[Microsoft]
16:00:28 Zakim, Microsoft has me
16:00:28 +eliot; got it
16:00:43 MFoladare has joined #html-wg
16:00:45 Chair: mjs
16:00:50 ScribeNick: glenn
16:00:53 +[Microsoft.a]
16:00:53 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0004.html
16:01:11 krisk has joined #html-wg
16:01:11 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:01:11 +paulc; got it
16:01:19 zakim, list attendees
16:01:19 As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc
16:01:22 Topic: ACTION items due by Thursday, July 12
16:01:37 +Radhika_Roy
16:01:44 +[GVoice]
16:01:53 zakim, [Microsoft] has eliot
16:01:53 +eliot; got it
16:01:56 ddorwin has joined #html-wg
16:01:58 ACTION-217?
16:01:58 ACTION-217 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN
16:01:58 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217
16:02:13 zakim, [GVoice] is me
16:02:13 +ddorwin; got it
16:02:28 +Laura_Carlson
16:02:30 +[Microsoft.aa]
16:02:49 +mjs
16:02:53 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is krisk
16:02:53 +krisk; got it
16:02:55 +[Microsoft.aa]
16:03:06 cjones has joined #html-wg
16:03:06 +hober
16:03:17 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba
16:03:17 +adrianba; got it
16:04:12 zakim, list attendees
16:04:12 As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba
16:04:21 mjs: one item ACTION-217
16:04:49 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba, frankolivier
16:04:49 adrianba was already listed in [Microsoft.aa], adrianba
16:04:50 +frankolivier; got it
16:04:52 ... Ted and Frank are working this, SF has commented proposing his own
16:05:12 Steve's proposal is at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions
16:05:19 This is a revision to Ted's proposal
16:05:29 hober: some outstanding feedback from SF and Rich which might result in some changes
16:05:35 ... but thinks it is stable
16:05:37 + +1.818.370.aaaa
16:05:46 paulc: SF submitted comments/changes to Ted's proposal
16:06:05 ... operative question is that others need to review SF's counter proposal
16:06:31 mjs: may need to go to survey, but two proposals are much closer now
16:06:51 Status of ISSUE-201: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201
16:07:13 close ACTION-217
16:07:13 ACTION-217 Create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) closed
16:07:33 paulc: should there be new action on Ted to review?
16:07:40 mjs: thinks ML thread is sufficient
16:07:47 janina: heard from rich will post soon
16:07:56 Active discussion at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0064.html
16:08:11 janina: nobody is disagreeing, sounds more like clarification discussion
16:08:41 mjs: still should be able to reach consensus
16:08:58 ... continue discussion on ML
16:09:02 Topic: New Issues This Week
16:09:03 none
16:09:12 mjs: one tracker request
16:09:17 ... to be LC2 comment
16:09:33 Topic: Items closed Last Week
16:09:38 ISSUE-189?
16:09:38 ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
16:09:38 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
16:09:57 ISSUE-200?
16:09:57 ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open
16:09:57 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
16:10:08 mjs: both calls have closed
16:10:16 Topic: Issues Closing This Week
16:10:18 none
16:10:24 Topic: Items Closing Next Week
16:10:37 ISSUE-199?
16:10:37 ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open
16:10:37 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
16:11:13 mjs: CfC active, revisions to CPs, consensus proposal present
16:11:22 Topic: New Calls This Week
16:11:27 ISSUE-199?
16:11:27 ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open
16:11:27 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
16:11:42 Topic: New Surveys This Week
16:11:44 ISSUE-200?
16:11:44 ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open
16:11:44 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
16:11:52 Zakim, call MIke
16:11:52 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:11:54 +MIke
16:12:02 ISSUE-189?
16:12:02 ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
16:12:02 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
16:12:21 mjs: Julian raised issue that IETF desires further discussion, will check with Philippe
16:12:26 q+
16:12:34 ... may put survey on hold, but should still provide input
16:12:42 paulc: plh says go ahead with survey
16:12:42 ack paulc
16:13:00 paulc: will respond on ML on this thread
16:13:11 Topic: Decisions This Week
16:13:12 none
16:13:21 Topic: Task Force Reports
16:13:27 [1] Testing Task Force
16:13:43 kris: good morning, didn't meet last week will meet next week
16:13:51 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Upcoming_meetings
16:13:58 ... schedule has been extended and posted on wiki
16:14:16 ... had discussed spec change about pattern repeat, opened bug sent to list
16:14:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0065.html
16:14:31 ... will have to see what consensus develops
16:14:35 q+
16:14:35 ... q/c?
16:14:46 ack yang
16:15:00 yang: what day is testing call?
16:15:08 Please see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing
16:15:11 kris: see above link
16:15:41 yang: ok
16:15:46 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Conference_Calls
16:15:53 ack yang
16:16:10 q+
16:16:11 [2] Accessibility Task Force
16:16:28 janina: not a lot to report
16:16:44 ... people have continued working on their tasks
16:16:54 ... lack of quorum in last call
16:16:59 ... progress, but slower than usual
16:17:28 ... chairs are aware of status changes on ISSUE-194, etc
16:17:46 ... and on ISSUE-201, nothing to add on what's been said
16:18:03 ... strongly opposed to moving ISSUE-203 forward before resolving ISSUE-30
16:18:17 + +1.415.832.aabb
16:18:22 [that is the TF is opposed]
16:18:41 mjs: yang is on queue
16:19:12 yang: noticed on ML that may decide on 3 options on ISSUE-194
16:19:30 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194
16:19:36 ... will we discuss on this call?
16:19:45 janina: can do if folks like
16:19:55 paulc: chairs are preparing a survey on three options
16:20:00 yang: a new survey?
16:20:10 paulc: [explains process]
16:20:31 yang: another question
16:20:45 ... for ??? detection ???
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16:21:26 [scribe: did not follow question]
16:21:43 paulc: question is about hit testing and whether it is related to accessibility
16:21:49 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201
16:21:58 ... see ISSUE-201
16:22:14 paulc: [explains process about task forces]
16:22:41 ... answer is yes, it is an accessibility related issue
16:22:52 ... as are many other issues on status page posted above
16:22:57 ack yang
16:23:06 Topic: Other Business
16:23:14 ISSUE-189?
16:23:14 ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
16:23:14 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
16:23:42 mjs: CP was revised as requested by chairs, now have gone to survey
16:23:44 - +1.818.370.aaaa
16:23:52 ... some questions about IETF coordination, but will proceed
16:23:55 ISSUE-201?
16:23:55 ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open
16:23:55 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
16:24:19 mjs: two proposals now with slightly different variants
16:24:29 ... from hober and SF
16:24:32 ... q/c?
16:24:59 ISSUE-204?
16:24:59 ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
16:24:59 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
16:25:34 mjs: seems to have material differences in CPs
16:26:12 hober: JF and I went back and forth on this
16:26:25 ... have gotten closer, hope to find compromise wording
16:26:35 ... a little more work to get agreement with JF
16:26:37 q+
16:26:58 janina: would be happiest if we can reach consensus on language
16:27:16 ... not sure how to move in that direction, would be good if hober can move this
16:27:39 ... great concern is there are large # of disabled users not using screen readers
16:27:50 ... problems with tab approach
16:28:00 ... probably not meeting all use cases
16:28:17 "Every good-faith effort has been made here, and if at this time you and Jonas are still unprepared to endorse the V4 CP, then I will ask the Accessibility Task Force for their endorsement of the V4 CP and ask that the Chairs proceed with a WBS survey on Issue 204." - John Foliot, June 29.
16:28:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html
16:28:24 mjs: yang on queue
16:28:47 ack yang
16:28:59 yang: why does ARIA need to see hidden element?
16:29:25 worried about breaking service logic
16:29:28 why let ARIA see the hidden, it will ruin the JS dynamic service logic
16:29:39 s/worried/... worried/
16:30:19 hober: thinks what yang is asking is whether elements that are hidden, with visibility toggled from script
16:30:30 ... shouldn't propose a problem for ARIA attributes
16:30:53 ... should be OK
16:31:05 s/propose/pose/
16:31:23 yang: if disabled users use ARIA, then they can see hidden elements?
16:31:58 ... does ARIA differentiate between hidden and not hidden?
16:32:44 can user see the difference by aria for hidden and not-hidden?
16:32:47 mjs: suggests taking this discussion offline
16:32:58 ... or discuss on ML
16:32:58 Yang could also attend the A11Y TF meeting
16:33:01 yang: ok
16:33:18 Using ARIA in HTML
16:33:18 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0165.html
16:33:33 any A11Y TF conference call information?
16:33:52 mjs: any q/c about this document (Using AREA in HTML)?
16:34:20 glenn: what is intended purpose of this doc? for info only?
16:34:29 s/AREA/ARIA/
16:35:02 paulc: intent is to fill in gaps, more readable
16:35:07 ... less jargon
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16:35:46 From 0165.html: "My intention is to provide a non normative resource that fills in the gaps in the current HTML5 specification and a document that is more readable (i.e. less jargonist)"
16:35:51 glenn: thanks, yes
16:36:22 paulc: points out that it does deviate from HTML5
16:36:54 glenn: do we need further action by WG?
16:38:10 trackbot has joined #html-wg
16:38:29 paulc: at present, author is requesting feedback
16:38:39 ... no specific actions for WG at this time
16:38:42 icaaq has joined #html-wg
16:39:35 paulc: there is a bugzilla component for this...
16:39:46 Bugzilla component and link: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG&component=Using%20ARIA%20in%20HTML
16:40:34 glenn: asks janina if A11Y TF has any position on this document
16:40:43 janina: not at this time, has not discussed
16:41:00 ... there is a group in TF working on mapping
16:41:09 ... so unclear
16:41:15 ... TF needs to discuss
16:41:36 Topic: AOB?
16:41:50 q+
16:42:16 paulc: wants to report that group of members dealing with work on media proposal
16:42:21 ... continue to meet on weekly basis
16:42:35 ... significant advances on both EME and MSE proposals
16:42:36 EME minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0034.html
16:42:48 ... substantial changes to both interfaces to be more O-O
16:43:18 ... any one interested in that work should contact paulc
16:43:27 ... also see public-html-media archive
16:44:01 Topic: Scribe for Next Meeting
16:44:04 ack paulc
16:44:13 mjs: any volunteers
16:44:22 Paul will be chairing
16:44:32 Ted volunteers. Paul C will chair.
16:44:39 -mjs
16:44:40 - +1.415.832.aabb
16:44:42 -[Microsoft]
16:44:42