15:00:55 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:00:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-html-media-irc
15:00:57 RRSAgent, make logs 185
15:00:57 Zakim has joined #html-media
15:00:59 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:00:59 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:00 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:01:00 Date: 10 July 2012
15:01:01 acolwell has joined #html-media
15:01:14 zakim, who is here?
15:01:14 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, adrianba
15:01:18 On IRC I see acolwell, Zakim, RRSAgent, adrianba, yang, glenn, paulc, duncanr, BillyWatts, suzie, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:01:26 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:01:28 pladd has joined #html-media
15:01:42 johnsim has joined #html-media
15:02:17 markw has joined #html-media
15:04:26 i can scribe
15:04:34 if you provide me the correct instructions
15:04:37 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:37 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, paulc
15:04:38 On IRC I see markw, johnsim, pladd, ddorwin, acolwell, Zakim, RRSAgent, adrianba, yang, glenn, paulc, duncanr, BillyWatts, suzie, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:04:40 thanks
15:05:01 zakim, this will be 63342
15:05:02 ok, paulc; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
15:05:09 i am changing phones
15:05:22 zakim, this is html_media
15:05:22 sorry, glenn, I do not see a conference named 'html_media' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:05:34 zakim, list conferences
15:05:34 I see UW_DAP()9:30AM, WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM, Team_(acctmgmt)15:00Z, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, HTML_WG()11:00AM, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM, SW_RIF()11:00AM, WAI_UAWG(CHAIRS)10:30AM active
15:05:38 also scheduled at this time are T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, HTML_WG(HTMLT)11:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)11:00AM, RWC_WebEven()11:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM
15:05:44 this conference is media
15:05:54 zakim, this conference is media
15:05:54 ok, paulc; that matches HTML_WG()11:00AM
15:06:02 zakim, who is here?
15:06:02 On the phone I see suzie, [Microsoft], duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, ??P34, jasonlewis, johnsim-microsoft, pladd, [GVoice], acolwell, +1.720.934.aabb, BobLund, markw, ??P50,
15:06:05 ... [Microsoft.a]
15:06:06 On IRC I see markw, johnsim, pladd, ddorwin, acolwell, Zakim, RRSAgent, adrianba, yang, glenn, paulc, duncanr, BillyWatts, suzie, MikeSmith, [tm], trackbot
15:06:12 zakim, [GVoice] is me
15:06:12 +ddorwin; got it
15:06:12 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:06:13 +adrianba; got it
15:06:20 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:06:20 +paulc; got it
15:06:24 zakim, P34?? is me
15:06:24 sorry, yang, I do not recognize a party named 'P34??'
15:06:37 zakim, ??P34 is me
15:06:38 +yang; got it
15:06:40 zakim, who's on the phone
15:06:40 I don't understand 'who's on the phone', glenn
15:06:52 +[Microsoft.a]
15:07:03 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:07:03 On the phone I see suzie, [Microsoft], duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, yang, jasonlewis, johnsim-microsoft, pladd, ddorwin, acolwell, +1.720.934.aabb, BobLund, markw, ??P50 (muted),
15:07:07 ... adrianba, [Microsoft.a]
15:07:08 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:07:10 -johnsim-microsoft
15:07:12 -BobLund
15:07:18 zakim, ??p50 is me
15:07:18 +glenn; got it
15:07:39 zakim who am i
15:07:43 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:43 On the phone I see suzie, [Microsoft], duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, yang, jasonlewis, pladd, ddorwin, acolwell, +1.720.934.aabb, markw, glenn (muted), adrianba, [Microsoft.a]
15:07:47 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:08:17 Clarke has joined #html-media
15:08:29 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is johnsim
15:08:29 +johnsim; got it
15:08:32 zakim, jasonlewis is me
15:08:32 +BillyWatts; got it
15:08:36 zakim, aabb is Tom Handal
15:08:36 I don't understand 'aabb is Tom Handal', paulc
15:08:37 zakim microsoft.a is me
15:08:51 zakim, aabb is Tom_Handal
15:08:51 +Tom_Handal; got it
15:09:08 zakim, [microsoft.a] is johnsim-ms
15:09:08 sorry, johnsim, I do not recognize a party named '[microsoft.a]'
15:09:25 scribenick: johnsim
15:09:31 +??P43
15:09:53 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:53 On the phone I see suzie, [Microsoft], duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, yang, BillyWatts, pladd, ddorwin, acolwell, Tom_Handal, markw, glenn (muted), adrianba, johnsim, ??P43
15:09:53 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:10:10 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0015.html
15:10:13 +Clarke_Stevens
15:10:13 zakim, ??p43 is BobLund
15:10:13 +BobLund; got it
15:10:51 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:11:07 zakim, list attendees
15:11:07 As of this point the attendees have been suzie, duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, johnsim-microsoft, pladd, acolwell, +1.720.934.aabb, BobLund, markw, ddorwin, adrianba, paulc, yang,
15:11:10 ... [Microsoft], glenn, johnsim, BillyWatts, Tom_Handal
15:12:25 720 is colorado
15:12:41 topic: role call
15:13:00 rrsagent, make minutes
15:13:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:13:06 rrsagent, make logs public
15:13:07 scribenick johnsim-ms
15:13:17 Zakim, sabbatical is me
15:13:17 sorry, Clarke, I do not recognize a party named 'sabbatical'
15:13:57 Zakim, asbb is me
15:13:57 sorry, Clarke, I do not recognize a party named 'asbb'
15:14:07 topic: previous meeting minutes
15:14:19 http://www.w3.org/2012/06/26-html-media-minutes.html
15:14:21 Noted
15:14:23 zakim, aabb is Clarke
15:14:23 sorry, adrianba, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:14:34 topic: review of action items
15:14:42 Zakim, aabb is me
15:14:42 sorry, Clarke, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:14:45 Present+ Clarke
15:14:45 topic: base line documents
15:14:53 Noted
15:15:04 Zakim, I give up
15:15:04 I don't understand 'I give up', Clarke
15:15:09 topic: object oriented api proposals
15:15:20 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:15:20 On the phone I see suzie, [Microsoft], duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, yang, BillyWatts, pladd, ddorwin, acolwell, Tom_Handal, markw, glenn (muted), adrianba, johnsim, BobLund
15:15:20 two bugs 16612, 16613
15:15:23 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:16:02 rrsagent, bookmark
15:16:02 See http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-html-media-irc#T15-16-02
15:16:07 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16612
15:16:10 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16613
15:16:41 have to dial back in apparently
15:16:45 -ddorwin
15:17:06 rrsagent, who is scribe?
15:17:06 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'who is scribe'
15:17:29 IRC FAQ: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
15:17:38 Chair: Paul Cotton
15:17:50 http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
15:17:53 +[GVoice]
15:18:07 http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
15:18:16 zakim, [GVoice] is me
15:18:16 +ddorwin; got it
15:18:20 zakim, [GVocie] is ddorwin
15:18:20 sorry, paulc, I do not recognize a party named '[GVocie]'
15:18:23 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0015.html
15:18:30 rrsagent, make minutes
15:18:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:18:31 rrsagent, status
15:18:31 I'm logging. I don't understand 'status', glenn. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:18:35 markw_ has joined #html-media
15:19:14 API design proposal #1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jun/0136.html
15:19:22 ddorwin: 136 was based on conversation two weeks ago
15:19:32 ddorwin: key request generate session object on media element
15:19:44 ddorwin: didn't address reuse
15:20:07 ddorwin: reasons for separateing key creation from media elements
15:20:36 separating key creation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jun/0134.html
15:21:04 ddorwin: with a constructor, not on lifetime of underlying media element, and may help with key release, etc.
15:21:11 API design proposal #2 (using a MediaKeySession constructor) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jun/0143.html
15:21:32 ddorwin: proposal #2, modification of original proposal, to use a constructor, that seemed to make sense,
15:22:00 ddorwin: 2b supercedes because 2 would be too hard to implement
15:22:08 #2b -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0002.html
15:22:10 2b: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0002.html
15:22:46 q+
15:23:04 ack yang
15:23:13 eric: 2b, post response in email
15:23:54 Yang's questions are in: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0031.html
15:24:01 eric: describe for 2b, second proposal makes sense from api point of view. Question: why not associated with media element - add a session -
15:24:22 Why can not, can we use some method like addSession to add a session to a media element?
15:24:49 addSession would not provide "strong association"
15:26:31 The key lookup will happen in CDM, so if we bind a session with a media element, and add key to the session, the key is passed to CDM, there will be no difficulty if only 1 key is needed for decryption, if for multiple keys for the same media element, I think the CDM only need 1 key at the same time to descrypt the media content, we may keep the principle, that 1 session for 1 key, and each time key change, the session removed and recreate, so there will be
15:27:43 ddorwin: principle in last meeting, one init data is one session
15:28:04 ddorwin: when you go to decrypt a frame, you don't have session id
15:28:14 so you need to look at all sessions to find the key id
15:28:22 sessions mean nothing at time you do a decryption
15:28:29 only for key exchange
15:28:47 yang: session has multiple keys
15:28:59 ddorwin: media element can have multiple sessions
15:29:44 ddorwin: multiple streams, audio and video using different keys, and you can have key rotations, perhaps on different sessions
15:30:15 yang: different tracks - different keys
15:30:34 paulc: not only possibility, not obvious what the keys are meant for, not pre-determined
15:31:08 ddorwin: CDM would be told what KID to use for a given block and look up in some table and why 2B was for a single table for a media element if all sessions you wanted to use were associated in some way
15:31:39 q+
15:31:40 ddorwin: proposal 1 had a strong association, but there are limitations, 2 had advantages
15:31:56 ack ad
15:32:20 adrianba: a couple of things in the proposal, perhaps syntax details, aren't quite clear to me.
15:32:43 adrianba; media element has media keys object, but then you have the media key interface with a constructor which passes in the key system string
15:33:11 and it is not clear how that constructor gets called in the call example, not a (new) instance - key system string a bit like an index
15:33:31 ddorwin: the example has a mistake should say new media keys
15:33:40 ddorwin: not intending to index anything
15:34:31 ddorwin: unless to create from an element there has to be some sort of assigning.
15:35:28 q?
15:35:31 q+
15:35:34 ddorwin: get at directions, debate specifics, high level comments, preference for 1, 2, 2b
15:35:36 ack ad
15:35:38 2b looks good to me
15:36:15 adrianba: in broad terms, we ... just like we agreed on media source spec the object oriented approach is something we want to do, we should update the spec with this proposal, the 2b proposal is the best one to go with right now
15:36:22 2 only for key session without collection right?
15:36:30 adrianba: more changes, but easier to review when it is in the document
15:37:02 agreed... 2b seems like a good direction
15:37:11 ddorwin: +1 on 2b
15:37:18 paulc: we now have 4
15:37:51 paulc: may take a while to settle it down, but anyone object to starting from 2b ?
15:37:58 +1 on 2b, but need detailed
15:38:12 paulc: time to edit?
15:38:30 ddorwin: some major rewrites of algorithms, should be able to do it in the next two weeks
15:39:07 paulc: best use of our time now is to look at other bugs in the agenda or some other mechanism? ideal to be done in one week to give people chance to review before next call
15:39:41 ddorwin: see where we are at the next weeks call
15:39:56 thandal has joined #html-media
15:40:04 ddorwin and the editors have offered to revise based upon proposal 2b
15:40:13 #2b -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0002.html
15:40:49 ACTION: ddorwin and editors to implement proposal 2b by revising EME specification
15:40:49 Created ACTION-1 - And editors to implement proposal 2b by revising EME specification [on David Dorwin - due 2012-07-17].
15:40:52 at the media source meeting next week spend a minute to see where we are with the update to EME
15:41:50 topic: new bugs filed
15:42:31 paulc: in order of agenda
15:42:49 rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:43:02 [Bug 17615] New: Support for different CDM communication models https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17615
15:44:20 adrianba: request in this bug is to support the model where the decoding is part of the media element and we actually have a separate
15:44:26 Separate bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16543
15:44:53 adrianba: bug, 16543, based on feedback from david singer, who pointed out that it is already possible with html5 to take care of content protection without any additional spec
15:45:25 adrianba: make changes to introduction for programmatic support for interacting with the content protection module and make it explicit that you can already do this in the media element
15:46:28 adrianba: proposed resolution, is to close it, as 'works for me'
15:46:39 Proposed status is WORKSFORME with no changes
15:47:02 q+
15:47:27 ack yang
15:47:38 Yang; for this bug, two different CDM models, i noticed, UA and the CDM, it is not a javascript api
15:48:03 +1 - this is an implementation detail in the browser
15:48:14 and the retrieveKey does not need to be defined in W3C, it is not a JS API.?
15:49:22 paulc: editors should take action on this bug
15:49:32 paulc: next 17658
15:49:34 [Bug 17658] New: need procedure for selection of Key System https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17658
15:49:36 q+
15:49:55 ack yang
15:50:32 Yang: no clear discripion of how UA detects Key System
15:50:41 f media element’s source attribute has a keySystem attribute then we use this as selected keySystem, this is OK. If no selected KeySystem, the specification says “jump to Key Presence” The question is : At “jump to Key Presence” is a else if of “selected key system”, so here we have no idea about key system, but in "jump to Key Presence", we are handling key already exist, so why before key system selected, we can have key? We may need let a
15:50:59 ddorwin: mark and i replied. anything still unclear after the email and bug reply?
15:51:07 See replies including: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17658#c3
15:51:19 ddorwin: important part, UA never selects the key system, application selects
15:51:43 ddorwin: with common encryption , you may need key system specific data in the file, but that is a separate issue
15:52:05 paulc: Yang, are you satisfied by the answer - UA does not pick the key system?
15:52:51 paulc: if something missing in the algorithm, should suggest text.
15:52:58 yang: discuss offline in email
15:53:15 action: continue bugzilla and email discussion of 17658
15:53:15 Sorry, couldn't find user - continue
15:53:36 paulc: next 17660
15:53:38 [Bug 17660] New: need token relative with user identity for a new generateKeyRequest parameter https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17660
15:53:55 paulc: comments?
15:54:26 ddorwin: user identify in generate key request, perhaps part of license request, the thinking in the current proposal combine with init data
15:54:49 q+
15:54:58 ack yang
15:55:01 ddorwin: so this is handled by the current specification and trying not to add any other features but open to discussion
15:55:31 yang: token outside of init data, perhaps downloaded from web server, token can passed to the CDM with the init data and other things
15:55:42 q+
15:56:04 ack adr
15:56:08 ddorwin: the application can combine token with init data in the current APIs, so looking for comment if explicit parameter like you propose is something people are interested in
15:56:35 adrianba: when we talked about this topic before original proposal, lots of different options for various data we might want to supply here, user token, or something in the applicaiton
15:56:56 zakim, list attendees
15:56:56 As of this point the attendees have been suzie, duncanr, +1.858.880.aaaa, johnsim-microsoft, pladd, acolwell, +1.720.934.aabb, BobLund, markw, ddorwin, adrianba, paulc, yang,
15:56:59 ... [Microsoft], glenn, johnsim, BillyWatts, Tom_Handal
15:57:09 andrianba: and ended up saying init data is a large block of data, a binary blob of data, we will need some more implementation experience to determine if that is the most appropriate whaay of doing this
15:57:43 adrianba: need to make more progress and experience/implementation before proposing that. so recommend you can combine in an application-specific way into init data and if we decide
15:57:56 adrianba: that is too complicated we can change the api
15:58:15 paulc: how to dispose of this bug. held for now? until we have more implementation experience?
15:58:22 adrianba: we could resolve it like that.
15:58:30