eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference

09 Jul 2012


See also: IRC log




<agipap> good morning everybody - good morning Phil!

trackbot-ng, start telcon

<trackbot> Date: 09 July 2012

<scribe> scribe: deridrelee

<PhilA> agipap: will you dial in?

<PhilA> CaptSolo: ytou too?

<agipap> can't at the moment, problem with telco lines

<scribe> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2012Jul/0008.html

<PhilA> LaurenceNZ: will you be dialling in?

<LaurenceNZ> 3468 does not seem to get me in

<PhilA> presentation is at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/6/6d/Roadmap_slides_4.pdf

tomasz: aim of telco is to discuss #egov roadmap

PhilA: it would be good to introduce ourselves at some stage, to get to know each other

tomasz: introducing himself, works in Macau
... with tomasz is Elsa

LaurencNZ: in Wellington, working in eGov 2004-2009, now an advisor in eGovernment
... has been following eGov group for long time, but time of telcos were barrier to participate, delighted about new structure

PhilA: would be great to get more participants from Eurasian area
... works in W3C and on European Commission projects
... role to facilitate eGov group and support Jeanne and Tomasz

<PhilA> deirdrelee: I'm at DERI, Galway

<PhilA> ... focused on sem web, linked data etc.

<PhilA> ... in eGov we want to apply those techs to public data

<PhilA> ... eParticipation etc.

<PhilA> ... lots of European projects and national level

draft #egov roadmap

tomasz: need to organise discussions, roadmap can help
... present context of domain in general and this group
... Public Sector ICT is a well established area
... describes evolving goals

LaurenceNZ: elaborate on policy and development goals

tomasz: will further on in presentation
... question mark over where this area will go next
... there are corresponding goals, challenges and limitations to technology in government
... stage 1 of Public Sector ICT is technology in government
... stage 2 of Public Sector ICT is electronic government
... stage3 of Public Sector ICT is electronic governance
... policy-driven electronic governance
... why and how will be guided by the policy framework

LaurenceNZ; not sure if policy-cycle is only available in stage 4

scribe: in many countries it is available in earlier stages as well

tomasz: agrees with comment, but particularly at the local-level we have to look at specific policy objectives
... describes related W3C standards an themes around eGov
... poses question, how to organise existing themes, discussions and outcomes of the W3C EGOV IG with respect to each other and with respect to the larger thematic context?
... roadmap addresses this question
... defines localisation of framework
... concrete example of policy goal is sustainable development
... discusses questions related to how eGov can be achieved
... discusses questions related to why eGov is important, i.e. what is the value proposition
... hope group members can help add some questions to those already defined
... discusses questions related to the localisation of eGov
... describes an example of UNU of transfer of knowledge to other countries
... discuses questions related to the foundations of eGov
... there has been discussion on the mailing list if we should pursue the definition of eGov at a conceptual level
... with mixed responses
... looks at social media as an example of an eGov theme
... and how it relates to policy framework
... presents matrix of eGov dimensions and themes
... describes how members can contribute to the implementation of this roadmap
... through creating new questions, addressing existing questions, etc.
... members can also contribute through the bimonthly conference calls
... hopes to create technical notes based on group discussions
... any questions/input?

PhilA: role is to support work in group
... picking up on some outcomes of recent events
... should there be a greater emphasis on digital divide?
... how much effort for public administrations to make services available to those not online?
... how could group help with this question?

Tomasz: matching supply and demand of services, not much use providing services if they are not used
... gives example of Estonia where training was provided to support online services

<LaurenceNZ> it was estonia

Tomasz: integration of online and offline services, as well as services that are provided across different channels

Elsa: also provision of services across multiple digital channels
... this could be added as a theme of discussion

PhilA: does not agree that the Web is not distinct from mobile and TV, as the Web is a multi-channel platform,
... if the service is made available in adaptable format, then Web can be seen as multi-channel

Tomasz: this is not just a technical challenge, but also an organisational challenge

LaurenceNZ: delivery to mobile devices is fragmented, compared to Web delivery,
... suggests this is due to widespread Web standards

<PhilA> A big +1 to LaurenceNZ

LaurenceNZ: disagrees with Tomasz that providing on a mobile device will require change to back-office, as this will be handled by middleware
... regarding digital divide, when you reach a critical mass, you can turn off other channels
... gives example of letting and company registration
... at a certain point, public services can be offered online only, there are ways of handling this
... for example in Denmark, citizens can go through an agent or Internet cafe, where the online service is utilised

Tomasz: to clarify on back-office, he meant more general, not just different electronic channels
... the nature of digital divide is changing over time.
... it was originally about access to Internet, but now is more about education about Internet usage

PhilA: interested in LaurenceNZ's comment on public services completely online
... examples given are B2B,
... how does services for individuals fit in?

LaurenceNZ: similar, census is coming up next here and they are hoping to get ??% online
... same principle for indivuals' services, you provide incentives
... gradual introduction

PhilA: Neelie Kroes commented that 1/3 of European households do not have internet connection at home and 1/2 of European adults have not been online
... shocking when Denmark claims it has no digital divide

Tomasz: they have mobiles

Elsa: topic to discuss is the take-up of public services

Tomasz: any comments concerning the roadmap itself?

<tomasz> ack ?

Tomasz: any suggestions on how to improve the roadmap?

LaurenceNZ: in relation to value proposition, it is not clear what is meant by sustainable development

Tomasz: SD is an example of a policy objective

LaurenceNZ: doesn't see how framework/matrix can help for all policy objectives
... policy objectives should be rows on matrix

tomasz: agrees

<PhilA> deirdrelee: In relation to the outcomes. The roadmap covers the different topic areas, but with regards to outcomes, it seems a little vague still

<PhilA> ... what kind of recommendations do we want to make?

<PhilA> tomasz: So you're making a distinction between the topics and the outcomes?

<PhilA> deirdrelee: Yes. The danger is that we have endless interesting discussions that don't achieve anything

<PhilA> tomasz: I agree

<PhilA> tomasz: We need to think about how the roadmap can lead to specific outputs

<PhilA> elsa: One possibility would be to apply the roadmap to specific themes of interest

PhilA: was in the room when roadmap was being discussed
... theme of social media comes up a lot
... many governments have published guidelines on how to use social media
... look at how social media is used by citizens to feed back into governments
... so to focus on a theme, such as social media, could be useful to focus group
... to apply roadmap

Elsa: start thinking about questions related to social media

tomasz: the social media theme was given as an example on slide 23 of presentation
... with questions associated with it

LaurenceNZ: agrees to roadtest roadmap with a theme like social media and ??
... struggling to understand what is meant by 'localisation' in the roadmap
... surprised that localisation refers to a particular country
... as most eGov refers to a particular country anyway
... apart from some global organisations, like OECD
... we need to think of a better word than localisation
... transnational is not as relevant as sub-national and regional transfer of eGov practices

Tomasz: agrees
... there are many standards/models/etc. from international organisations that don't take into account the localisation of eGov practices
... at a national level
... there is a need for eGov to go sectoral
... not just horizontal

PhilA: thinks in terms of standards
... if ewhen writing a standard is applicable to NZ system, but not Danish, it is not published, and they go back to something that is applicable to all
... otherwise it is application-specific
... any implmentation will be in a specific context, but a guideline should be applicable in any context, otherwise guideline is wrong

LaurenceNZ: understands context is important, but, to go back at stages outlined in roadmap, eGov practices depends on the stage the particular country is at

tomasz: agrees that localisation dimension requires more work

Elsa: is there a common repository where we can share resources?

<PhilA> There is a wiki http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page

PhilA: members of the group will have login to be able to edit wiki

tomasz: to summarise, we covered multi-channel delivery of services
... some governments decision to provide services only online
... to test roadmap with example of a topic, e.g. social media
... the roadmap will be revised and a new version created
... will discuss suggestions with Jeanne

LaurenceNZ: how to use SIP with skype?

PhilA: SIP is different protocol than Skype

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: CaptSolo LaurencNZ LaurenceNZ P12 P3 PhilA agipap deirdrelee ed_ egov elsa joined sandro tomasz trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/6/6d/Roadmap_slides_4.pdf
Found Date: 09 Jul 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-egov-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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