IRC log of egov on 2012-07-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:55:39 [RRSAgent]
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07:55:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-egov-irc
07:55:44 [Zakim]
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07:55:57 [agipap]
good morning everybody - good morning Phil!
07:58:21 [PhilA]
zakim, this is egov
07:58:21 [Zakim]
ok, PhilA; that matches T&S_EGOV(Eurasian)4:00AM
07:58:21 [deirdrelee]
deirdrelee has joined #egov
07:58:28 [PhilA]
zakim, code?
07:58:28 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
07:58:56 [Zakim]
+??P3
07:59:02 [PhilA]
zakim, ??P3 is me
07:59:02 [Zakim]
+PhilA; got it
07:59:24 [Zakim]
+deirdrelee
07:59:27 [PhilA]
zakim, mute me
07:59:27 [Zakim]
PhilA should now be muted
07:59:32 [PhilA]
zakim, unmute me
07:59:32 [Zakim]
PhilA should no longer be muted
08:00:41 [deirdrelee]
trackbot-ng, start telcon
08:00:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
08:00:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be EGOV
08:00:45 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV(Eurasian)4:00AM already started
08:00:46 [trackbot]
Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
08:00:46 [trackbot]
Date: 09 July 2012
08:00:55 [deirdrelee]
scribe: deridrelee
08:00:57 [LaurenceNZ]
LaurenceNZ has joined #egov
08:02:10 [PhilA]
zakim, who is here?
08:02:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +8532871aaaa, PhilA, deirdrelee
08:02:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LaurenceNZ, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, elsa, PhilA, agipap, tomasz, ed_, CaptSolo, sandro, trackbot
08:02:23 [deirdrelee]
chair: tomasz
08:02:53 [tomasz]
zakim, aaaa
08:02:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aaaa', tomasz
08:02:53 [deirdrelee]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/6/6d/Roadmap_slides_4.pdf
08:03:01 [PhilA]
zakim, aaaa is tomasz
08:03:01 [Zakim]
+tomasz; got it
08:03:15 [PhilA]
zakim, tomasz has elsa
08:03:15 [Zakim]
+elsa; got it
08:03:30 [PhilA]
zakim, who is where?
08:03:30 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, PhilA.
08:03:35 [PhilA]
zakim, who is here?
08:03:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see tomasz, PhilA, deirdrelee
08:03:36 [Zakim]
tomasz has elsa
08:03:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LaurenceNZ, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, elsa, PhilA, agipap, tomasz, ed_, CaptSolo, sandro, trackbot
08:03:53 [PhilA]
agipap: will you dial in?
08:04:03 [PhilA]
CaptSolo: ytou too?
08:04:46 [agipap]
can't at the moment, problem with telco lines
08:05:45 [deirdrelee]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2012Jul/0008.html
08:06:56 [PhilA]
LaurenceNZ: will you be dialling in?
08:07:53 [LaurenceNZ]
3468 does not seem to get me in
08:08:02 [Zakim]
+??P12
08:08:33 [PhilA]
zakim, ??P12 is LaurenceNZ
08:08:33 [Zakim]
+LaurenceNZ; got it
08:09:09 [PhilA]
zakim, who is here?
08:09:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see tomasz, PhilA, deirdrelee, LaurenceNZ
08:09:10 [Zakim]
tomasz has elsa
08:09:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LaurenceNZ, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, elsa, PhilA, agipap, tomasz, ed_, CaptSolo, sandro, trackbot
08:10:13 [PhilA]
presentation is at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/6/6d/Roadmap_slides_4.pdf
08:11:10 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: aim of telco is to discuss #egov roadmap
08:11:48 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: it would be good to introduce ourselves at some stage, to get to know each other
08:12:27 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: introducing himself, works in Macau
08:12:35 [deirdrelee]
... with tomasz is Elsa
08:13:06 [deirdrelee]
LaurencNZ: in Wellington, working in eGov 2004-2009, now an advisor in eGovernment
08:13:55 [deirdrelee]
... has been following eGov group for long time, but time of telcos were barrier to participate, delighted about new structure
08:14:12 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: would be great to get more participants from Eurasian area
08:14:29 [deirdrelee]
... works in W3C and on European Commission projects
08:14:48 [deirdrelee]
... role to facilitate eGov group and support Jeanne and Tomasz
08:15:12 [PhilA]
deirdrelee: I'm at DERI, Galway
08:15:22 [PhilA]
... focused on sem web, linked data etc.
08:15:37 [PhilA]
... in eGov we want to apply those techs to public data
08:15:44 [PhilA]
... eParticipation etc.
08:15:53 [PhilA]
... lots of European projects and national level
08:16:32 [deirdrelee]
topic: draft #egov roadmap
08:17:15 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: need to organise discussions, roadmap can help
08:17:45 [deirdrelee]
... present context of domain in general and this group
08:18:14 [deirdrelee]
... Public Sector ICT is a well established area
08:18:47 [deirdrelee]
... describes evolving goals
08:19:23 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: elaborate on policy and development goals
08:19:33 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: will further on in presentation
08:20:05 [deirdrelee]
... question mark over where this area will go next
08:20:59 [deirdrelee]
... there are corresponding goals, challenges and limitations to technology in governmnet
08:21:17 [deirdrelee]
s/governmnet/government
08:22:13 [deirdrelee]
... stage 1 of Public Sector ICT is technology in government
08:22:16 [deirdrelee]
... stage 2 of Public Sector ICT is electronic government
08:22:35 [deirdrelee]
... stage 2 of Public Sector ICT is electronic governance
08:22:52 [deirdrelee]
s/stage 2/stage3
08:25:39 [deirdrelee]
... policy-driven electronic governance
08:26:22 [deirdrelee]
... why and how will be guided by the policy framework
08:27:43 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ; not sure if policy-cycle is only available in stage 4
08:28:00 [deirdrelee]
... in many countries it is available in earlier stages as well
08:28:41 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: agrees with comment, but particularly at the local-level we have to look at specific policy objectives
08:30:37 [deirdrelee]
... describes related W3C standards an themes around eGov
08:31:17 [deirdrelee]
... poses question, how to organise existing themes, discussions and outcomes of the W3C EGOV IG with respect to each other and with respect to the larger thematic context?
08:31:40 [deirdrelee]
... roadmap addresses this question
08:32:38 [deirdrelee]
... defines localisation of framework
08:33:16 [deirdrelee]
... concrete example of policy goal is sustainable development
08:34:46 [deirdrelee]
... discusses questions related to how eGov can be achieved
08:35:07 [deirdrelee]
... discusses questions related to why eGov is important, i.e. what is the value proposition
08:35:24 [deirdrelee]
... hope group members can help add some questions to those already defined
08:35:45 [deirdrelee]
... discusses questions related to the localisation of eGov
08:36:31 [deirdrelee]
... describes an example of UNU of transfer of knowledge to other countries
08:37:04 [deirdrelee]
.... discuses questions related to the foundations of eGov
08:37:41 [deirdrelee]
... there has been discussion on the mailing list if we should pursue the definition of eGov at a conceptual level
08:37:46 [deirdrelee]
... with mixed responses
08:38:20 [deirdrelee]
... looks at social media as an example of an eGov theme
08:38:39 [deirdrelee]
... and how it relates to policy framework
08:39:55 [deirdrelee]
... presents matrix of eGov dimensions and themes
08:40:34 [deirdrelee]
... describes how members can contribute to the implementation of this roadmap
08:40:54 [deirdrelee]
... through creating new questions, addressing existing questions, etc.
08:41:35 [deirdrelee]
... members can also contribute through the bimonthly conference calls
08:42:24 [deirdrelee]
... hopes to create technical notes based on group discussions
08:42:48 [deirdrelee]
... any questions/input?
08:43:19 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: role is to support work in group
08:43:33 [deirdrelee]
... picking up on some outcomes of recent events
08:43:44 [deirdrelee]
... should there be a greater emphasis on digital divide?
08:44:20 [deirdrelee]
... how much effort for public administrations to make services available to those not online?
08:44:39 [deirdrelee]
... how could group help with this question?
08:45:14 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: matching supply and demand of services, not much use providing services if they are not used
08:45:36 [deirdrelee]
... gives example of ?? where training was provided to support online services
08:45:47 [PhilA]
s/??/Estonia/
08:45:53 [LaurenceNZ]
it was estonia
08:46:15 [deirdrelee]
... integration of online and offline services, as well as services that are provided across different channels
08:46:32 [deirdrelee]
Elsa: also provision of services across multiple digital channels
08:46:43 [deirdrelee]
... this could be added as a theme of discussion
08:47:20 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: does not agree that the Web is not distinct from mobile and TV, as the Web is a multi-channel platform,
08:47:59 [deirdrelee]
... if the service is made available in adaptable format, then Web can be seen as multi-channel
08:48:26 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: this is not just a technical challenge, but also an organisational challenge
08:48:55 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: delivery to mobile devices is fragmented, compared to Web delivery,
08:49:14 [deirdrelee]
... suggests this is due to widespread Web standards
08:49:16 [PhilA]
A big +1 to LaurenceNZ
08:50:02 [deirdrelee]
... disagrees with Tomasz that providing on a mobile device will require change to back-office, as this will be handled by middleware
08:50:52 [deirdrelee]
... regarding digital divide, when you reach a critical mass, you can turn off other channels
08:51:12 [PhilA]
q+
08:51:16 [deirdrelee]
... gives example of letting and company registration
08:52:00 [deirdrelee]
... at a certain point, public services can be offered online only, there are ways of handling this
08:52:36 [deirdrelee]
... for example in Denmark, citizens can go through an agent or Internet cafe, where the online service is utilised
08:53:17 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: to clarify on back-office, he meant more general, not just different electronic channels
08:53:43 [deirdrelee]
... the nature of digital divide is changing over time.
08:54:14 [deirdrelee]
... it was originally about access to Internet, but now is more about education about Internet usage
08:54:57 [PhilA]
q?
08:55:08 [LaurenceNZ]
q+
08:55:16 [PhilA]
ack LaurenceNZ
08:55:30 [PhilA]
ack me
08:56:00 [tomasz]
q?
08:56:29 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: interested in LaurenceNZ's comment on public services completely online
08:56:37 [deirdrelee]
... examples given are B2B,
08:56:57 [deirdrelee]
... how does services for individuals fit in?
08:57:26 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: similar, census is coming up next here and they are hoping to get ??% online
08:57:59 [deirdrelee]
... same principle for indivuals' services, you provide incentives
08:58:23 [deirdrelee]
... gradual introduction
08:59:08 [elsa]
q+
08:59:30 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: Neelie Kroes commented that 1/3 of European households do not have internet connection at home and 1/2 of European adults have not been online
08:59:50 [deirdrelee]
... shocking when Denmark claims it has no digital divide
09:00:03 [tomasz]
ack me
09:00:04 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: they have mobiles
09:00:57 [deirdrelee]
Elsa: topic to discuss is the take-up of public services
09:01:28 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: any comments concerning the roadmap itself?
09:01:44 [deirdrelee]
q+
09:01:59 [tomasz]
ack ?
09:02:00 [deirdrelee]
... any suggestions on how to improve the roadmap?
09:02:13 [PhilA]
q- elsa
09:02:34 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: in relation to value proposition, it is not clear what is meant by sustainable development
09:02:55 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: SD is an example of a policy objective
09:04:38 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: doesn't see how framework/matrix can help for all policy objectives
09:04:54 [deirdrelee]
... policy objectives should be rows on matrix
09:05:01 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: agrees
09:06:22 [PhilA]
deirdrelee: In relation to the outcomes. The roadmap covers the different topic areas, but with regards to outcomes, it seems a little vague still
09:06:43 [PhilA]
... what kind of recommendations do we want to make?
09:07:05 [PhilA]
tomasz: So you're making a distinction between the topics and the outcomes?
09:07:27 [PhilA]
deirdrelee: Yes. The danger is that we have endless interesting discussions that don't achieve anything
09:07:34 [PhilA]
tomasz: I agree
09:07:54 [PhilA]
ack deirdrelee
09:08:10 [PhilA]
tomasz: We need to think about how the roadmap can lead to specific outputs
09:08:26 [PhilA]
elsa: One possibility would be to apply the roadmap to specific themes of interest
09:09:14 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: was in the room when roadmap was being discussed
09:09:24 [deirdrelee]
... theme of social media comes up a lot
09:09:42 [deirdrelee]
... many governments have published guidelines on how to use social media
09:10:22 [deirdrelee]
... look at how social media is used by citizens to feed back into governments
09:10:44 [deirdrelee]
... so to focus on a theme, such as social media, could be useful to focus group
09:10:53 [deirdrelee]
... to apply roadmap
09:11:14 [deirdrelee]
Elsa: start thinking about questions related to social media
09:11:46 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: the social media theme was given as an example on slide 23 of presentation
09:11:56 [deirdrelee]
... with questions associated with it
09:12:39 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: agrees to roadtest roadmap with a theme like social media and ??
09:13:15 [deirdrelee]
... struggling to understand what is meant by 'localisation' in the roadmap
09:13:56 [deirdrelee]
... surprised that localisation refers to a particular country
09:14:22 [deirdrelee]
... as most eGov refers to a particular country anyway
09:14:42 [deirdrelee]
... apart from some global organisations, like OECD
09:14:57 [deirdrelee]
... we need to think of a better word than localisation
09:15:21 [deirdrelee]
... transnational is not as relevant as sub-national and regional transfer of eGov practices
09:15:55 [deirdrelee]
Tomasz: agrees
09:16:46 [deirdrelee]
... there are many standards/models/etc. from international organisations that don't take into account the localisation of eGov practices
09:16:56 [deirdrelee]
... at a national level
09:17:39 [PhilA]
q+
09:17:54 [deirdrelee]
... there is a need for eGov to go sectoral
09:18:01 [tomasz]
ack me
09:18:08 [deirdrelee]
... not just horizontal
09:18:23 [PhilA]
ack PhilA
09:18:51 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: thinks in terms of standards
09:19:25 [deirdrelee]
... if ewhen writing a standard is applicable to NZ system, but not Danish, it is not published, and they go back to something that is applicable to all
09:19:38 [deirdrelee]
... otherwise it is application-specific
09:20:12 [deirdrelee]
... any implmentation will be in a specific context, but a guideline should be applicable in any context, otherwise guideline is wrong
09:21:49 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: understands context is important, but, to go back at stages outlined in roadmap, eGov practices depends on the stage the particular country is at
09:22:37 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: agrees that localisation dimension requires more work
09:23:15 [deirdrelee]
Elsa: is there a common repository where we can share resources?
09:23:22 [PhilA]
There is a wiki http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page
09:23:52 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: members of the group will have login to be able to edit wiki
09:24:28 [deirdrelee]
tomasz: to summarise, we covered multi-channel delivery of services
09:24:49 [deirdrelee]
... some governments decision to provide services only online
09:25:08 [deirdrelee]
... to test roadmap with example of a topic, e.g. social media
09:25:30 [deirdrelee]
... the roadmap will be revised and a new version created
09:25:39 [deirdrelee]
.... will discuss suggestions with Jeanne
09:26:23 [deirdrelee]
LaurenceNZ: how to use SIP with skype?
09:26:46 [deirdrelee]
PhilA: SIP is different protocol than Skype
09:26:57 [PhilA]
rrsagent, draft minutes
09:26:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-egov-minutes.html PhilA
09:27:17 [Zakim]
-deirdrelee
09:27:19 [Zakim]
-PhilA
09:27:28 [Zakim]
-tomasz
09:27:35 [PhilA]
zakim, bye
09:27:35 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +8532871aaaa, PhilA, deirdrelee, elsa, LaurenceNZ
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